First Build - Widescreen Weecade - need help

[VoltaTom]

Hello BYOAC community,
First post here, but I've been reading a lot of posts and seeing some amazing cabinets for some serious inspiration.

After some bartop planning, which turned out to be just too big - basically a half cab -  I've decided for my first build to be a modified Weecade with a 22" LCD widescreen monitor. For those familiar with the Weecade plans, I've decided to extended the interior panels' widths from 470mm to 520mm to accommodate the widescreen.

I'm going for 6 buttons per player + P1 & P2 start + P1 & P2 coin, but also want pinball flippers. I'm not sure what to do about admin buttons (enter, pause, escape, other functions?) - Also planning on having several USB ports on the back

I think I have all the pieces:

• 16 Green Chomolux LED buttons
• 8+ Black Happ pushbuttons (including 1+2 player buttons)
• 2 Yellow Happ Competition Joysticks
• I-PAC²
• PacDrive for LEDs
• 4" speakers + mini amplifier
• Plenty of wire + connectors

I'm going for a black or white, and green, with a touch of yellow for the design but I haven't come up with anything yet. Any suggestions? Helpful tips? Any information would be helpful before I pick up the 1/2" MDF tomorrow and start the construction of this bad boy.

[a1pharm]

Welcome aboard, Tom!

Lots of great inspiration for bartops on this site.  I like that you are using a widescreen, this will allow a more natural looking CP w/ 6 buttons (the 4:3 monitors make the bartop pretty narrow and uncomfortable for more than 4 buttons per player). 

Buttons:
16 buttons - 12 (6/player) = 4
4 - 2 (pinball buttons) = 2 remaining buttons

I would use these 2 buttons like this:

1 - Admin (shift function)
1 - Pause (shifted to function as Exit)

The coins can be activated by using the shift function + player button (ex. to add 1 credit to player one, press "Admin" + "P1")

You could also just use non-lit buttons for admin functions (you have plenty).

For the Bartop that I'm building, these are the buttons I installed:

4 buttons/player (
2 flipper buttons (2)
P1
P2
Pause
Exit
Admin
Power (on the back)

Total number of buttons: 16

If you are serious about playing pinball, put 2 pinball flippers on each side (one for flipper, one for nudge), perhaps a lit green button for the flipper, and a black button for nudge would be aesthetically pleasing?  If PL1 (scott) weighs in, listen to what he says, he's a pinball fiend and will give you great advice. 

As far as artwork: Are you going for a Sin City/NAVE art style, or just doing a more traditional route, but just in black and white?  If you are looking for a great printer, I used this guy:

http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/forum/showthread.php?14150-Decals-and-Printing-for-your-Hyperpin-Cabinet

He was great, the price was reasonable, and applying the artwork could not have been easier (he uses sticky backed, laminated vinyl with air release technology - no bubbles).

Some questions for you:
-What are your computer's specs?  Lots of MAME software runs fine on older systems, but the pinball applications are more processor/graphics intensive.  Multicore processors with relatively new NVidia graphics cards work best (I use a current gen AMD card, and there is some slowdown w/ FXAA in VP, apparently NVidia cards don't have this problem).
-What front end are you going to use?  Mala would be easier to get to match your custom artwork, but hyperspin may be worth the trouble.
-What types of games and emulators are you going to play?

Again, welcome aboard, this is a great hobby!

Cheers!
 

[VoltaTom]

Welcome aboard, Tom!

Lots of great inspiration for bartops on this site.  I like that you are using a widescreen, this will allow a more natural looking CP w/ 6 buttons (the 4:3 monitors make the bartop pretty narrow and uncomfortable for more than 4 buttons per player). 

Buttons:
16 buttons - 12 (6/player) = 4
4 - 2 (pinball buttons) = 2 remaining buttons

I would use these 2 buttons like this:

1 - Admin (shift function)
1 - Pause (shifted to function as Exit)

The coins can be activated by using the shift function + player button (ex. to add 1 credit to player one, press "Admin" + "P1")

You could also just use non-lit buttons for admin functions (you have plenty).

For the Bartop that I'm building, these are the buttons I installed:

4 buttons/player (
2 flipper buttons (2)
P1
P2
Pause
Exit
Admin
Power (on the back)

Total number of buttons: 16

If you are serious about playing pinball, put 2 pinball flippers on each side (one for flipper, one for nudge), perhaps a lit green button for the flipper, and a black button for nudge would be aesthetically pleasing?  If PL1 (scott) weighs in, listen to what he says, he's a pinball fiend and will give you great advice. 

As far as artwork: Are you going for a Sin City/NAVE art style, or just doing a more traditional route, but just in black and white?  If you are looking for a great printer, I used this guy:

http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/forum/showthread.php?14150-Decals-and-Printing-for-your-Hyperpin-Cabinet

He was great, the price was reasonable, and applying the artwork could not have been easier (he uses sticky backed, laminated vinyl with air release technology - no bubbles).

Some questions for you:
-What are your computer's specs?  Lots of MAME software runs fine on older systems, but the pinball applications are more processor/graphics intensive.  Multicore processors with relatively new NVidia graphics cards work best (I use a current gen AMD card, and there is some slowdown w/ FXAA in VP, apparently NVidia cards don't have this problem).
-What front end are you going to use?  Mala would be easier to get to match your custom artwork, but hyperspin may be worth the trouble.
-What types of games and emulators are you going to play?

Again, welcome aboard, this is a great hobby!

Cheers!
 

Some good suggestions about the buttons. I never considered to use the coin button as a shifted button. I like the Admin as a shift.

The system I HAVE to have are Mame, NES, SNES, Genesis, Gameboys, N64 (with usb controller). Pinball (Visual/Future) is secondary to me (still would be cool), but I do have enough buttons for the nudges. Also because some of these buttons have 8 buttons (including start+select) I might use the Player button as Start and Coin as Select.

I'm using an OLD computer - Pentium 4 2.6 Ghz, 1GB RAM, 80gb HDD. All the games on the system above work pretty well but haven't tried any Pinballs yet - might not even be worth it by the sounds of it.

I have HyperSpin up and running but it's not as quick/smooth as I'd like. I tried Mala hoping it would be a little lighter on the computer resources, but not a noticeable difference yet. What else could I do?

Thanks for the printer. I'll look into that, looks pretty nice. I plan on doing the artwork on my own so I'll see what I come up with.

Good luck on your bartop, and thanks for the welcome. I can't wait to start the construction on this!

[PL1]

Welcome aboard, VoltaTom.

Since you mention not being sure if pinball will work with your setup, I recommend loading the software before you start making sawdust.

VPForums.org has a step-by-step install guide that will walk you through the whole install process. ("Getting Started" pulldown menu in the upper left.)

Visual Pinball (VP) was originally designed to be played on a keyboard so that makes preliminary testing very easy.   

If you want tables that require less processor and video power, try some of the VP8 tables at VPForums.org -- the physics emulation isn't as good as VP9, but it's still lots of fun.

The VP8 Creature from the Black Lagoon table should give your system a pretty good workout.

You may also be able to improve your system performance by shutting off unnecessary processes like virus scan, automatic updates, etc.

VP uses the Graphics Processor Unit (GPU), so adding a video card (even an inexpensive one) can do a lot to improve performance for pinball.

VP is optomized for Nvidia cards -- as A1pharm observed, ATI cards don't work as well.

I'm going for 6 buttons per player + P1 & P2 start + P1 & P2 coin, but also want pinball flippers.

There is some overlap between the pinball flippers and MAME buttons -- you wire them in parallel by either running a wire from each switch to the encoder or by wiring them like this diagram shows.  If you put Left MagnaSave and Upper Flipper on one button, wire them like below or you'll get P1B1 and P2B1 both triggering at the same time when playing MAME games.   



Also consider using Goldleaf buttons for the flippers -- great feel and lower profile so they're less likely to run into anything else.

I'm not sure what to do about admin buttons (enter, pause, escape, other functions?) - Also planning on having several USB ports on the back

For what you've described, P1/P2 Start, P1/P2 Coin, Pause and Escape should work fine.

Move the Enter to the front for pinball Plunger/Ball Launcher.

Some people like shifted functions, but there is the potential for unintentional functions being triggered.

Any button with a shifted function that is hit while the shift button is pressed will output the shifted function.

Problems like bringing up menu settings or accidently exiting aren't likely, but they are possible during normal gameplay.

Good choice on the USB ports for adding an analog stick, gamepad, etc.

If PL1 (scott) weighs in, listen to what he says, he's a pinball fiend and will give you great advice. 

  Hopefully more friend than fiend.   


Scott

[a1pharm]

Turn off transitions in Hyperspin, that may speed things up, and you won't even notice they are gone.  Check the hyperspin forums for other optimization tricks (there's a great thread out there, but I can't find it at the moment).

[VoltaTom]

Turn off transitions in Hyperspin, that may speed things up, and you won't even notice they are gone.  Check the hyperspin forums for other optimization tricks (there's a great thread out there, but I can't find it at the moment).

This made it a lot quicker! Thanks!

[VoltaTom]

If you want tables that require less processor and video power, try some of the VP8 tables at VPForums.org -- the physics emulation isn't as good as VP9, but it's still lots of fun.

The VP8 Creature from the Black Lagoon table should give your system a pretty good workout.

Thanks for the links. I'll give it a shot and see what happens. I did the installer but it gave me VP9. Lol, tried the easy way with no luck .

VP uses the Graphics Processor Unit (GPU), so adding a video card (even an inexpensive one) can do a lot to improve performance for pinball.

VP is optomized for Nvidia cards -- as A1pharm observed, ATI cards don't work as well.

The computer I'm using has an Nvidia GeForce FX 5200. Old but it may work.

There is some overlap between the pinball flippers and MAME buttons -- you wire them in parallel by either running a wire from each switch to the encoder or by wiring them like this diagram shows.  If you put Left MagnaSave and Upper Flipper on one button, wire them like below or you'll get P1B1 and P2B1 both triggering at the same time when playing MAME games.   

You have successfully overwhelmed me with the pinball part of this lol. I was hoping for just one flipper on each side as pinball will be secondary. I'm second guessing the entire pinball part now .

Also consider using Goldleaf buttons for the flippers -- great feel and lower profile so they're less likely to run into anything else.

Those are pretty cool. If I run out of space I may get some of those as I am using thin wood and space may be a premium if I don't plan it right.

For what you've described, P1/P2 Start, P1/P2 Coin, Pause and Escape should work fine.

Move the Enter to the front for pinball Plunger/Ball Launcher.

I think all of my buttons (not 6x player buttons and joysticks) will be on the front. I think the control panel will be tight for space. It would be nice to have the P1/P2 and pause on the top though. I'll have to do some planning. Thinking P1, Coin1, Pause, Escape, Coin2, P2 across the front.

Thank you VERY much for you detailed response and taking the time to write it all. I am seriously reconsidering the pinball part now though.

Is there a way to get away with just 1 pinball flipper per side? And wiring them normally, say, button P1 Button 7 and 8? I'm building a Mame machine and if I can play pinball on it that would be cool, but mainly for old console games.

[VoltaTom]

Got all the pieces cut except the sides at my brother's wood shop (he's a cabinet maker by trade).

After dragging out many of the tools I needed from the basement the heat got he best of me. It was 'feeling like' 40 degrees Celsius yesterday so I never got to cut my sides


Going on holidays to Mexico for a week so I'll have to put this project on hold. Should have some good progress once I return!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

[PL1]

I did the installer but it gave me VP9. Lol, tried the easy way with no luck .

The installer should have installed both VP8 and VP9 IIRC.

The computer I'm using has an Nvidia GeForce FX 5200. Old but it may work.

It should do OK with VP8 tables as long as they aren't too high-resolution.

Is there a way to get away with just 1 pinball flipper per side? And wiring them normally, say, button P1 Button 7 and 8?

1 flipper per side will cover the vast majority of the tables, but adding L/R Nudge buttons can make a big difference in your gameplay enjoyment on a number of tables.

If I were to prioritize the controls, this would be the order of importance/usefulness:
  1. Lower Flippers and Ball Launch
  2. Nudge L/R
  3. Nudge Up
  4. Upper Flippers (On ~5%? of tables)
  5. MagnaSaves (Only about 7 tables IIRC)

For the Left Lower Flipper (left shift) connect the button to the same encoder input as P1 Button 4.

Don't worry about the fancy wiring since you won't have Upper Flipper and MagnaSave -- you can deal with it when you get around to building a pincab.   


Scott

[VoltaTom]

After a week away on vacation and waiting on some parts that finally arrived I've gotten back into this. I am scrapping the pinball part of the cabinet - maybe for another project.  I have a question about my control panel but first an update.


Wired up a prototype to test my buttons/joystick and get a feel for what buttons I need. I like it but am wondering about how many buttons I actually need for navigating hyperspin and the different emulators.


Drilled out the speaker panel. I like the look so far.


My mini amp showed up so I couldn't resist testing it out. Also got a smart power strip as seen in the background - those things are awesome!

So my question about the control panel...

I have 16 LED buttons and 2 player buttons (if needed). I want to know if I can get away with only 16 buttons total.

6x each player = 12
Start and coin x each player = 4 (was planning on having all 4 on the front of the panel)

That's all 16 buttons. Can I get away with only 1 coin button so I have one button left over for the centre of the top panel for like a global pause/hyperpause? I don't mind shifting buttons and also allowing this buttons to be shifted to exit the game. Really unsure about what admin buttons I'll need for hyperspin - if any at all (because of shifts).

Thoughts? Any input is appreciated. If I finally decide on the buttons I will be drilling and painting the control panel ASAP.

[a1pharm]

So you have 12 buttons for the 2 players (6 + 6) and you have P1 and P2 buttons, bringing the total to 14.  Now you need an admin/shift button, so that brings the total to 15.  Add a Pause button, and you will have 16.  Here's what you need to shift everything to, in order to stay in your 16 button limit (this is all you'll need for Hyperspin + more)

Shift + P1 = Coin 1
Shift + P2 = Coin 2
Shift + Pause = Exit

That's it.  That's all you need for Hyperspin (I use HS as my front end, and this is all I need/want)

Let me know if you have questions.

Cheers!