ArcadeVGA3000 HD2600 in Windows 7

[alexd74]

Hi all,
Please be kind.  I am very new to all of this and have been trying my best to learn from the discussions in this forum but am still a bit lost.  I recently had to upgrade my setup from Windows XP 64 bit to Windows 7 64 bit because of a need to upgrade to a newer ArcadeVGA card (older one died).  The new one does not have an XP64 driver so was firstly forced to upgrade the OS.  I then found that ArcadePerfect (utility from Ultimarc) was not supported by the newer ArcadeVGA3000 cards yet.  My original setup used GroovyMame in combination with ArcadePerfect to set the size and refresh of the monitor (I am using a 15Hz via J-Pac - ArcadeVGA3000) to as close as possible to the refresh rate of the game being run.  This worked VERY well.
Needing a new setup, I downloaded and setup a NEW version of GroovyMame.  I understood it would select the closest resolution to the running game automatically and use a refresh rate matching the game.  I fired up a few games and 'most' of them, with geometry tweaking in Powerstrip, seemed ok.  I noticed that mame/groovymame was reporting speed increases or speed decreases depending on the game, although inside the game (game information menu) switchres reported exactly the same refresh rate as the game.  I found if I used Powerstrip to adjust the refresh, I could get the mame report speed at 100% (which I assume is best for smooth display and accurate sound?).  Obviously the adjustments in Powerstrip are per resolution, however I need to be able to make per-game adjustments (as some games in mame use the same res but different refresh rates?).
Is there a way, apart from using ArcadePerfect, to set refresh rate parameters?  Are these the modelines I read about?  If so, how can I find them, and where do I put them?  Are they the same as when going into advanced config in Powerstrip and copying modes to clipboard?  Would they then go into a game.ini file somewhere (ini folder)?
Hoping someone can give me a helping hand.
Thanks,
Alex.

[Calamity]

WOW, what an interesting post

My original setup used GroovyMame in combination with ArcadePerfect to set the size and refresh of the monitor (I am using a 15Hz via J-Pac - ArcadeVGA3000) to as close as possible to the refresh rate of the game being run.  This worked VERY well.

This is the first evidence of someone successfully using GroovyMAME in combination with ArcadePerfect. I wish you had posted about this before.

I fired up a few games and 'most' of them, with geometry tweaking in Powerstrip, seemed ok. 

Are you saying that Powerstrip supports your AVGA3000? I mean that you can modify geometry settings on the fly from Powerstrip's window.

If this is the case, then that's quite a discovery, because GroovyMAME can remote control Powerstrip to tweak video modes on the fly. This would make the AVGA3000 a quite more flexible option indeed.

Believe it or not, no one has reported about this before.

GroovyMAME doesn't take raw modelines yet as you're suggesting (it will) but that's not a problem, because in combination with Powerstrip you would just set the monitor type to arcade_15 or whatever and let GroovyMAME calculate its own modelines and apply them through Powerstrip, without you having to do it manually.

[alexd74]

Hey Calamity,
Thanks for the quick reply.  Yes, my original ArcadeVGA was a X550 (ArcadeVGA 2?).  I have setup 2 cabinets with these cards.  Both had XP 64 bit, GroovyMame, ArcadePerfect, and Hyperspin.  All worked beautifully.  A LOT of time went into creating perfect sized screens and refresh rates in ArcadePerfect and have a big library of RSL files!  It was a shame when I received my new AVGA card to find out it did not work with ArcadePerfect or WinXP...  :-(  Sorry I hadnt posted.  I guess you would only see posts from people who have issues!?

Yes, in Powerstrip, with the new card (it is an HD 2600 ArcadeVGA300), I can click display profiles, configure, advanced timing options, and make adjustments.

I set the powerstrip option in the mame.ini (deleted and recreated with -cc option to be sure) to 1, and monitor type to arcade_15 and tried a few games.  It seems to be doing something, but changes the geometry and makes the screen shake (wavy) a bit (like when making geometry adjustments in Powerstrip that are not quite in sync).  Any way to change what Powerstrip is doing here to get the right size and refresh?

Thanks.

[alexd74]

Hi again,

Thought I would expand on what is going on at present. 

It seems with the Powerstrip option on, GroovyMame is actually forcing Powerstrip to change its refresh rate for the resolution selected, which is great and I am sure is as intended.  This does mean I lose control over the geometry.  Is there a way to maintain geometry settings somehow? Is this where modelines comes in?

Also, and maybe related to geometry, and a bit hard to explain, is when GroovyMame does its thing with Powerstrip it makes my monitor sync a bit out and seems to reset any geometry/timing settings I save for that res (makes the screen wobble and wave as mentioned in previous post).  However if I turn Powerstrip option off and change the Powerstrip settings manually for that res I can get a good image (geometrically and stable).  Any ideas?  I would attached images but it seems images don't really show the effect!  Video shows it ok but even a small example I made is 35MB.

Let me know if you need to see something (video or image if I can get one to show the effect) or perhaps you know of this 'out of sync wavy' effect I am getting?

Thanks.

[alexd74]

Hi again,
So I am thinking what I need to do is limit or restrict what GroovyMame is asking Powerstrip to do (auto modeline calculation?).  It seems to be setting the refresh rate fine with no care about the width/height of the image, which causes the screen wave effect.  How do I control the modeline calculations?
I have attached my mame.ini in case there is something there that is not right.
Thanks,
Alex.

[alexd74]

ok, sorry to be annoying and reply to my own posts!  But I have a workaround that although will take me time to get all working, I feel I have more control over the setup.  What I have decided to do is write batch files that use Powerstrip's command line to set the timing for each game.  Then in the Hyperspins launch AHK file (Hyperlaunch), I will call %romname%.bat before launching mame.  This will set the timings to EXACTLY what I want.  Essentially this is doing what I used to do with ArcadePerfect.  When mame exits I will call 640x480.bat which sets the screen back to the 640x480 res I use for Hyperspin.  Just did a test with 1 game and it worked fine, so off I go to do some PowerStripping and batch file creating!
Thanks all, hope this helps someone!
Alex.

[Sledge]

hey alex, along with mame.ini it would be helpful to post a log file for the game you are running that doesn't seem right..
from cmd:
groovymame romname -v >romname.txt

that will enable Calamity and the other brainiacs  to see what it's actually doing

[Calamity]

Hi alexd74,

Sorry I couldn't answer before. I've read about your batch workaround, yeah that's more or less how your previous setup with ArcadePerfect would have worked.

So I am thinking what I need to do is limit or restrict what GroovyMame is asking Powerstrip to do (auto modeline calculation?)

Well, it's actually quite the opposite indeed, although I have little success persuading users to actually learn *how* GroovyMAME is supposed to be used.

It seems to be setting the refresh rate fine with no care about the width/height of the image, which causes the screen wave effect.  How do I control the modeline calculations?

It does care about width/height, it's only that the size of the borders that it's calculating doesn't match your current monitor adjustments. If you don't want to touch your monitor adjustments (physically) then you need to tell GroovyMAME how big the borders must be so that modes are automatically centered. This is done by means of a custom crt_range line, where you will specify the front/back porches, just like you do with Powerstrip, but here it will apply to *all* modelines calculated afterwards.

Regarding the wave effect, this is a different issue. It would be a good idea to upload the video to youtube. If it's what I thinking (something like a flag upside down) then it's due to an unstable dotclock value.

[alexd74]

Hi Calamity,

Thanks again for the post back.  In the meantime I have been spending too way much time in Powerstrip for every game, and have got only 25 MAME game resolutions setup!  I am trying to get Groovymame to show exactly 100% speed when it exits but sometimes have to settle with 100.01% in games like Double Dragon that reports a 57.444853 and I got Powerstrip to lock in at 57.445 (seems to be limited to 3 decimal places anyway).  It still gives me a 100.01% speed report but looks and sounds smooth so I settled with that.  Honestly I am not that confident in Powerstrip and end up just locking the frequency close to what it should be and tweaking the size and random other values until I get a match through trial and error (mostly error and end up with a bad image, black or white screen and have to reboot to get an image back - hopefully I am not damaging my monitor/graphics card in the process?)  What you are suggesting sounds like a much better way.  I am still a bit lost through and hope you can give me some guidance?

Where do I start?  I guess the custom crt_range lines in the ini?  How do I set these up?  Can I get some of this information from Powerstrip when I get the geometry where I want it?  Sorry if this is explained somewhere, I havent found any information that my brain can process anywhere!  :-)

I will try to upload a video tonight showing the wave effect.  It must be a common thing.  When in Powerstrip if I set a refresh rate, quite often it will shake/wave straight away, and then I usually click the 'lock scan frequencies' option and then adjust height/width and front/back/sync widths until the wave/shake stops and the refresh is close to where I need.  If it is a dot clock issue how can I make sure GroovyMAME sets this correctly.  Is that another crt_range parameter?

Sounds like what I am doing is the wrong/long way around and I should be using the power of GroovyMAME to its potential.  Hope you have the time to post back some basic instruction to me to get me on my way.

Thanks again,
Alex.

[krick]

Are you certain that there's not an XP x64 driver for your ArcadeVGA 3000?

This page has two sets of XP x64 drivers for the ArcadeVGA 3000.  Maybe one will work...
http://www.ultimarc.com/avgadrivers.html

[alexd74]

Hi Krick,
Yeah, tried them all and it would not install.  I eventually contacted Andy at Ultimarc and he said the newer cards (HD2600 ATI) do not have WinXP 64BIT drivers.
Alex.

[Calamity]

Hi alex,

Regarding the geometry/size etc., you can start by posting a screen shot of Powerstrip's horizontal/vertical geometry window, where it shows the advanced timings. Select a mode that is perfectly centered and get the screen shot from that, then I'll show you how to port those values to a crt_range. It's better if you choose a mode with higher horizontal resolution (better 512x than 256x), your figures will be more accurate.

I'd like to see the video, because if it turns out to be a dotclock issue, then that's a hard problem to deal with, and you'll probably need to stick with the manual method you're using now.

The thing is, sometimes Powerstrip programs the card with a dotclock that ends up not being stable, and it looks how you're describing. You can't know if the dotclock is going to be stable beforehand. Doing random changes in some of the timing values may lead to a slightly different dotclock value that happens to be stable. GroovyMAME assumes all achievable dotclock values to be stable, because this is the case with stock video drivers. Powerstrip uses its own method to program the dotclock and unfortunately, sometimes it produces non-working values. If this happens just for a few values which can be isolated in the certain range (i.e. low values) then we can find a workaround that somehow bypasses those. But if it's generalized, then there's nothing we can do, as GroovyMAME doesn't have a black list of dotclocks it should not use or something like that. Powerstrip support is better for some chipsets than others on this regard.

In any case your results will be interesting for other users.

[alexd74]

Thanks Calamity,

Stay tuned as I am currently rebuilding my arcade PC again!  I had some motherboard issues which will hopefully be resolved now as I have changed it for another one.

Once I do the rebuild (nearly done), I will load up Powerstrip and screenshot a 640x480 timing screen.  I will do this very shortly.

I have just today received a new video camera for a trip we are going on soon so it should take a nice image of the dotclock issue (if that is what it is).  I will need to get the camera ready first so may not be able to get to this tonight, but will do as soon as possible.

Thank you very much for all of this!   Can't wait to actually play some games!

Alex.

[alexd74]

Here are some screenshots in Powerstrip.  First is 640x480.  Then I had to do 2 for 512x240 as it would not all fit on one screen.  First is Horizontal timings.  Second is vertical timings.
Thanks,
Alex.

[alexd74]

Hi,
and here is the video:
Sorry about the quality.  Still learning the camera functions and how to get it across to PC, but you should see the effect and how I got it.  In particular, watch the edge of the image as I reduce the width each time.  It shows the 2nd or 3rd time I reduce the width.
Thanks,
Alex.

[Calamity]

Ok I can see the effect. It looks like the dotclock issue indeed, however it's much softer than what I have usually seen.

So, from the two resolutions you posted, which one is better centered? 512x or 640x? I'm asking this because the horizontal front porch is quite different among them.

[alexd74]

Thanks.
To me they both look pretty well centred so I have attached photos of both.  If I had to guess I would say the 640 one is slightly better?  The 512 could probably be moved up or height reduced a bit.  Is height/vertical alignment important?  Should I be letting the corners move outside the image area slightly to maximise screen area or reduce it to completely fit inside viewable area?
Anyway, hopefully you can see what needs to be done with the attached pics.
Thanks,
Alex.

[Calamity]

Hi alex,

I'd say the values for the 512x240 mode are better, anyway test both options and check which one works better. You need to set 'monitor custom' in mame.ini, then add either one of these lines:

(Values taken from 640 x 480 modeline)

   crt_range0 15625-16500, 49.50-65.00, 2.629, 4.428, 9.271, 0.064, 0.192, 1.024, 0, 0, 192, 288, 448, 576


(Values taken from 512 x 240 modeline)

   crt_range0 15625-16500, 49.50-65.00, 4.436, 4.777, 9.896, 0.064, 0.192, 1.024, 0, 0, 192, 288, 448, 576

Notice how the remarked values are just taken from your Powerstrip window. This will create modelines which are similar in size and geometry to the ones used as sample.

 

[alexd74]

Thanks heaps Calamity.
Seems to be working!  Am I right that I would need to set the refresh_dont_care option to 1? (I did this after deleting mame.ini and creating a fresh one with -cc option)  When I did not have this set the res stayed at 640x480 when testing with Double Dragon.  When set to 1 it switched the res fine.  However I noticed the sound seemed to catch up then slow down somewhat (and in differing areas)?  Is that normal?  Should I be using ddraw?  Also when exiting Double Dragon the speed report varied at around 103%.  I have attached my log for this game.
Also, when I tested Mortal Kombat it did not seem to fit on the screen.  How can I tell if it is using the new crt range?
Thanks again!
Alex.

[Calamity]

Hi alex,

GroovyMAME is just picking your default modelines, it's not applying any recalculation, because it seems you have disabled the -powerstrip option. Unless you enable it, the custom crt_ranges won't apply. The -powerstrip option makes -refresh_dont_care redundant.

[alexd74]

Hi Calamity,
Thanks for persisting with me.  Ok, so I enabled the powerstrip option and disabled the refresh_dont_care option.  Now it is calculating modelines.  It is now displaying everything I throw at it at the correct width, however some games are showing me the dotclock wave issue.  Some worse than others.  For example, Double Dragon shows it slightly, Sky Soldiers badly, but Mortal Kombat is fine!  Is there anything I can do there?  Or is my only option disabling the modelines and using my batch files?
Obviously I want to get the best out of my setup!
Thanks,
Alex.

[Calamity]

What resolution does it pick for Sky Soldiers?

Try enabling -dotclock_min 7.0

[alexd74]

Hi Calamity,
I think I am getting somewhere.  Experimenting with some mame.ini values, I changed the min_dotclock to 7.0 as recommended and switchres from 1 to 0 and now almost all resolutions are good (skysoldiers included - res was weird though.  Mame says it should be 256x224 but switchres chose 512x240?  It looked and played well though.  I have attached the log from that one).  One problem so far is with galaga.  It runs at 288x224 and switchres wants to run at 320x240 res (and it waves a bit) however I have a closer res 288x240 which I want to try to use.  I put a 'resolution 288x240' in a galaga.ini file and switchres complains that that resolution is not available/illegal?
I have attached my latest mame.ini and galaga log.
I'll get there one day!!!
Thanks again for the help.
Alex.

[Calamity]

Hi alex,

You must keep -switchres on, otherwise the mode changes won't happen.

Yeah raising the value of dotclock_min to 7.0 has the effect that lower horizontal resolutions will be discarded and a double width will be picked instead, so 256x240 will be exchanged by 512x240, but the results are visually perfect. This way we would be avoiding the potentially problematic dotclocks, however I'm not sure if those are just on the lower range or are spread all over the usable range.

You can try higher values of dotclock_min, maybe 8.0.

In order to force a resolution in GroovyMAME, you must specify the refresh too, so 288x240 is illegal, but 288x240@61 would work. Anyway, it wouldn't be picked either if its associated dotclock is below the dotclock_min value we're using.

The problem with the ArcadeVGA, for this kind of setup, is that you don't have a good variety of double-width resolutions, so 288x240 should have its 576x240 counterpart for the above method to work optimally. Have you tried creating *new* resoltions with Powerstrip?