E3 2013

[ChadTower]

I don't know of a single person who's wii isn't collecting dust or has any plans to buy a wii U.

I have a Wii U, and it sees playtime daily, but not from me.  My kids play the ever-lovin' out of that thing, apparently.  I've just been working and not witnessing it.

Same here and it used to be played to death.  It has seen a decline this year mostly because we stopped buying Wii games and the kids went back to the N64 and NES.

[knave]

My wii does ok. All my consoles have periods of idle time but my kids seem to go 50/50 wii/360. Last weekend when I had a housefull of kids the wii was favoed due to all the party games, wario smooth moves in particular.

In some cases its just a matter of which game I bought foe which system. I prefer the lego games on the 360 so since the kids love those they switch back and fourth. Epic micky is a wii fav as is anything mario and EA playground. Only the ps3 collects dust at my house mainly because I dont buy kid friendly games for it and I dont have time for long play sessions.

At least the wii being the lowest cost console can double as a no-extra-charge netflix box. I still think the wii is the best value system I purchased. I believe most are satisfied with it.

[Malenko]

There is no way Im gonna have kids just so my Wii gets played.

[DaveMMR]

While it is currently collecting dust, I have no plans for getting rid of the Wii. There are some great, highly-replayable games in my collection. And the dust pile sits on my other games and consoles as well. Common complaint: lack of time.

On to the console announcements: I personally never liked the Xbox. Any of them. Yes, I had the original Xbox but I never was compelled to invest in a 360 nor was I even considering an Xbox One, even before the disastrous game policies they put into place. Don't know - the system just never seemed to have a personality. I'm sure there's more to the console than shooters and sports but I had a hard time convincing myself of that when I was console shopping. PS3, while hosting those same genres, at least had some variety (e.g. "Little Big Planet" with a image-friendly mascot.)

I just find it completely baffling that Microsoft (1) doesn't listen to its customers and (2) hasn't learned anything from its competitors. They're mirroring 2006 Sony with over-pricing, focusing more on television/movie watching than games and their "well, you can just deal with it" response to concerns. Throw in restrictive DRM and you can bet they'll have limited support from their fans. I expect some "backpedaling" will take place before, or shortly after, it hits shelves with regards to its controversial 'feature-set.'

[Rigby]

Microsoft is approaching it from the point of view of a software company.  tighter restrictions, more control, service subscription, and strict licensing rules, just like the software they produce. 

Sony has always been a hardware company and software restrictions don't make a lot of sense to a hardware company.  A hardware company that makes desk fans doesn't give a damn if you sell a fan you buy to a friend.  Software people are absolutely insane and somehow view that as a lost sale, or piracy, and restrict the heck out of used sales to prevent loss.

Nintendo is a toy company and views their console as a toy.  they have never aimed to be the best performing hardware or the most functional software; they make games that are supposed to be fun for everyone.

in most respects, each company is producing the console that makes the most sense for them.

[ChadTower]

There is no way Im gonna have kids just so my Wii gets played.

I think you have your cause and effect reversed.  At least I hope you do. 

[ChadTower]

I just find it completely baffling that Microsoft (1) doesn't listen to its customers and (2) hasn't learned anything from its competitors.

Erm... hi.  Have you ever owned a computer?   


Forget the game console industry.  We're talking about Microsoft.

[DaveMMR]

I just find it completely baffling that Microsoft (1) doesn't listen to its customers and (2) hasn't learned anything from its competitors.

Erm... hi.  Have you ever owned a computer?   


Forget the game console industry.  We're talking about Microsoft.

Heh - you're correct. Even as I typed that on a Windows 8 computer where I had to pay some third party a couple of dollars to bring back my start button and menu because MS said "too bad, you can just like it" in not so many words to those complaints.

But somehow, I separated MS the console maker from MS the Windows company - the one that finally released a regular-sized controller for the original Xbox after complaints.

[Rigby]

I had to pay some third party a couple of dollars to bring back my start button and menu because MS said "too bad, you can just like it" in not so many words to those complaints.

Why did you get Windows 8, then?  I don't know how the rest of you are using the start button, but I press the windows key and type the name of the app I want to launch.  It works exactly the same on Win7 as Win8.

Windows 8.1, a free upgrade from vanilla 8, is coming later this year and will bring back the start menu & availability to boot to the desktop.

[Malenko]

Why did you get Windows 8, then?  I don't know how the rest of you are using the start button, but I press the windows key and type the name of the app I want to launch.  It works exactly the same on Win7 as Win8.

Computer probably came with it?  Here's how I hit the start button, I click it, then pick the program I want to launch, typically in under 2 seconds. How fast can you launch the command prompt as an administrator using the windows key?

I think you have your cause and effect reversed.  At least I hope you do.

Hence the ironic statement. I have a Wii and its unplayed, apparently due to the lack of offspring. Lets be honest though, 1 Malenko is way more than enough.

[DaveMMR]

I had to pay some third party a couple of dollars to bring back my start button and menu because MS said "too bad, you can just like it" in not so many words to those complaints.

Why did you get Windows 8, then?  I don't know how the rest of you are using the start button, but I press the windows key and type the name of the app I want to launch.  It works exactly the same on Win7 as Win8.

Windows 8.1, a free upgrade from vanilla 8, is coming later this year and will bring back the start menu & availability to boot to the desktop.

I wish Malenko. The answer: I'm an idiot. Seriously. I'm kicking myself. The better answer: It was $35 and my copy of Windows 7 was not legit so, for the first time, I'd actually have a properly licensed copy of Windows. I just built a new computer so I figured "why not?" That's what you get for doing the right thing, huh?

I used the Windows Key approach but I hate wading through the tiles for a simple program. Especially since none of my programs are "apps."

From what I've heard, 8.1 is bringing back the start button but not the menu (??) but don't quote me on that. And most of the changes are still focused on "touch-screen" interfaces. But whatever. The program is called "Start is Back" or something and it was $2 or 3 and you can modify the menu to however you want it so it's not a bad trade-off. 8 is almost like 7 now and my hardware is now playing nicely, surprisingly. It's really not that bad once you correct that "little problem."

(EDIT: No, I couldn't reinstall 7 as the key I had no longer worked. Wasn't in the mood to wade through a sea of questionable websites or paying more money to Microsoft.)

[Malenko]

Im forced to use Win8 at work, I use http://www.classicshell.net/ for my start menu. Its free, tons of options XP, Fista, and Win7 style start button/menu.

[edekoning]

I don't think I have used the start button/menu since I discovered Launchy (www.launchy.net) way back in 2006.

[hypernova]

Microsoft has reversed course on used games.

Summary:  You can now buy used games without a specialized retailer, and internet connectivity is not required save for the initial time you load the game.

[Malenko]

Microsoft has reversed course on used games.

Summary:  You can now buy used games without a specialized retailer, and internet connectivity is not required save for the initial time you load the game.

no word on mandatory Kinect yet though

[Howard_Casto]

Kinect is still mandatory afaik (It wouldn't matter anyway, it comes pre-packaged so you'll pay for it) and if you read their statement very carefully, there are some loopholes in their that worry me. 

1. You still have to install games.  Wtf?  It's a console.  This translates to me in that big brother is still watching. 

2.  All the policy reversals are only confirmed for offline games and they word things very carefully to make that known.  I mean yeah many games require online to play I get that... but they don't mention that the used games/drm/ect policies have been removed for online games.  And you have tons of titles like Assassin's Creed that technically have multiplayer even though they are really single player games.  How does this effect them?

3.  Microsoft states that they won't do drm personally, but they will NOT prevent other companies from using drm and the old system is still in place to help third parties monitor game licenses.  I hope you don't like EA titles. 

It's a great step in the right direction, but I can't really trust them at this point.  Plus the ps4 is 100 bucks cheaper and this go around each machine seems equally powerful....if anything the ps4 is slightly more powerful. 

[edekoning]

Lets also not forger that these 'new' policies can be changed any time in the future.

[Malenko]

Kinect is still mandatory afaik (It wouldn't matter anyway, it comes pre-packaged so you'll pay for it) and if you read their statement very carefully, there are some loopholes in their that worry me. 

I was too vague. Is the Kinect being on all the time mandatory. I actually unplugged my kinect from my 360 when I dont use it, it adds a good 30 seconds to the 360 boot up time. That being said I finally wiped the dust off my PS3 and Ive been having a blast with Tales of Graces f and Last of Us.

[rpgposer]

Microsoft has reversed course on used games.

Summary:  You can now buy used games without a specialized retailer, and internet connectivity is not required save for the initial time you load the game.

Of course they did.  They will say anything in order not to lose possible sales.  A partnership with EA?  They are made for each other.
This generation of consoles is making me feel old.  Care for some Wii bowling after oatmeal?  Time for the rocking chair!
Consoles I own in order of most play time:

Gamecube (Untold hours of PSO).
PS2
Wii (HBC and all that entails).
Xbox360
SNES

Anyway, I am in Howard's corner regarding the Wii U.  Slap metroid, zelda or mario on a game and I will play it.  I can't stand the transaction type of business model that EA has been trying to go to.  I realize they are trying to make the most money they can, which is their business, but I find it offensive.

[rpgposer]

Im forced to use Win8 at work, I use http://www.classicshell.net/ for my start menu. Its free, tons of options XP, Fista, and Win7 style start button/menu.

I just use the start screen.  You can choose whatever you want on it.  I unpinned everything but the weather and photos active tiles and pinned my stuff on it.
The start screen IS the start button, M$ just tried to cash in on their "Apps" store right out of the gate and pissed everyone off.  Remove that crap and pin your own.

[Vigo]

Im forced to use Win8 at work, I use http://www.classicshell.net/ for my start menu. Its free, tons of options XP, Fista, and Win7 style start button/menu.

I just use the start screen.  You can choose whatever you want on it.  I unpinned everything but the weather and photos active tiles and pinned my stuff on it.
The start screen IS the start button, M$ just tried to cash in on their "Apps" store right out of the gate and pissed everyone off.  Remove that crap and pin your own.

I've only used about 10 minutes of win 8 (before installing classic shell) but don't you completely lose the view of your screen when using the windows 8 start screen? That would probably annoy the crap out of me.  So like if I got an email from my boss that says "Please forward me the Revision 3 P5FY2013 Sales report for District A34RG21." I would have to commit that big pile o' crap to memory before I can go to my Excel drop down of recent documents.

[rpgposer]

Trying to not sound like an M$ shill:  I don't use my PC that way.  I usually have xcel and word open.  If I need a recent file, I go to the file tab and look at the recent files.  YMMV.  I can see how it would be annoying if you use the recent documents function.

[Howard_Casto]

I don't think that's what he means.  If he's got the email up that has the giant string of data telling him which file to pull up and presses the start button... that email is now hidden, so how in the world is he gonna track it down?

I'm the biggest fan of windows you are ever gonna find and I'm still using 7, so what does that tell you? 

[Rigby]

I'm the biggest fan of windows you are ever gonna find and I'm still using 7, so what does that tell you?

Well, you want it to tell us that your hate for Win8 is valid, and you're right, it is, for you.  If you're wanting to tell us that your hate for Win8 is valid for everyone, well... not so much.

I quite like Win8, and I recently got a WinPhone8, along with my wife and eldest daughter, and we all like them a lot.

[rpgposer]

I'm the biggest fan of windows you are ever gonna find and I'm still using 7, so what does that tell you?

Well, you want it to tell us that your hate for Win8 is valid, and you're right, it is, for you.  If you're wanting to tell us that your hate for Win8 is valid for everyone, well... not so much.

I quite like Win8, and I recently got a WinPhone8, along with my wife and eldest daughter, and we all like them a lot.

I think we can agree that the win8 start screen is designed for touchscreens.  Perhaps I have been polishing a turd by developing workarounds for the way I used to use windows.  Just didn't seem that hard for me.  I know I'm not the only one here who has been working with PC's since the old AT days and has used multiple OS's including *nix.
Anyway, I didn't want to start a fight, and this is wayyyy OT.
What were we discussing?  E3? 

[Howard_Casto]

I'm the biggest fan of windows you are ever gonna find and I'm still using 7, so what does that tell you?

Well, you want it to tell us that your hate for Win8 is valid, and you're right, it is, for you.  If you're wanting to tell us that your hate for Win8 is valid for everyone, well... not so much.

I quite like Win8, and I recently got a WinPhone8, along with my wife and eldest daughter, and we all like them a lot.

I think we can agree that the win8 start screen is designed for touchscreens.  Perhaps I have been polishing a turd by developing workarounds for the way I used to use windows.  Just didn't seem that hard for me.  I know I'm not the only one here who has been working with PC's since the old AT days and has used multiple OS's including *nix.
Anyway, I didn't want to start a fight, and this is wayyyy OT.
What were we discussing?  E3?

Well that's what I was getting at.  You can make any os good via a bunch of tweaks, but if the previous os is essentially the same only you don't have to do those tweaks why in the world would you upgrade?  I have no issue with win8's backend.  Optimize it for the desktop and I'm sold.  I just don't see why desktop users have to suffer with an inferior interface to have cross-compatibility with tablets and phones. 

Eh... E3 is over... that's sooo 20 minutes ago. 

[Malenko]

Eh... E3 is over... that's sooo 20 minutes ago. 

I love the very idea of staying on topic for 3 pages.

[Howard_Casto]

I don't think it's ever happened before. 

[shmokes]

Back off topic, I'm pretty fond of Win 8 (though it'd have been nice if they'd finished it before release), but I'm so frustrated with manufacturers. How is it that Macbooks have remained essentially unchanged save for a few innards for years and still nobody can touch them? And not just in quality. Nobody touches Apple in quality or price. All I want is an exceptional 11" notebook, and I'd even settle for a 13". I want a Windows 8 device, but nothing can compete with a Macbook Air. Not in specs. Not in price. Not in battery life. Not in keyboard. And god knows not in trackpad. In fact, the only advantage a few competitors have is screen resolution (against the Air only), and it's the one advantage that's hardly an advantage because Win 8 can't handle the ultra high resolutions very well.

[SNAAKE]

NO ONE touches apple?

[Howard_Casto]

The only reason apple devices appear "better" is because they use the most restrictive hardware and software in the entire industry, right down to the "you'll buy it from apple and you'll like it" marketplace. 

It's like saying the speak-n-spell is better than your pc because it crashes less.  Yup... it crashes less, too bad you can't actually do anything with it. 

I've tried iphones/ipads extensively and to me they are just adequate at best.  Despite it's flaws I'd MUCH rather use android or to a much lesser degree win phones because you can actually do stuff on them beyond what the apple overlords allow you to do. 

[Vigo]

Nobody touches Apple in quality or price.

yeah...you could say that nobody touches Apples in price....      Those laptops are so worth the $600 price markup for that extra 30 minutes of battery life and the wonderful ability to look like a d-bag yuppie at starbucks. 

I used to be an apple guy, like in the 90's. Then I learned to stop worrying and love Windows. Every time I try an apple product, it always ends in tears. I have a list if you don't believe me.

[yotsuya]

What cracks me up is that most people are under some assumption that Macs use special hardware as well. They freak when their HDs fail.

[rpgposer]

Nobody touches Apple in quality or price.

yeah...you could say that nobody touches Apples in price....      Those laptops are so worth the $600 price markup for that extra 30 minutes of battery life and the wonderful ability to look like a d-bag yuppie at starbucks. 

I used to be an apple guy, like in the 90's. Then I learned to stop worrying and love Windows. Every time I try an apple product, it always ends in tears. I have a list if you don't believe me.

I recommend Apple products to my less technologically inclined friends who have money. 

[Howard_Casto]

Yeah overpricing is a HUGE issue with apple stuff.  Somebody is going to explain to me one day why I can buy a pc product with the exact specs for 1/3rd less.  Yeah those are really shiny custom boards/cases but are they really so custom that they up the price by hundreds of dollars?

[knave]

Apple gear is more expensive mainly because folks will Pay for it. The streamlined UI that is easy for everyone to use gives them huge brand loyalty. And while their hardware isn't magically better than standard PC hardware they seem to stay at the upper end of the quality curve.

Personally I can't stand the interface, But users love their macs...I also know of several people who bought the warranty and when their mac broke after two years got a whole new computer.

[DaveMMR]

The only reason apple devices appear "better" is because they use the most restrictive hardware and software in the entire industry, right down to the "you'll buy it from apple and you'll like it" marketplace. 

Yup. The whole "It Just Works" mentality stems from the fact you can't install any hardware/software that will make it not just work. Which is why I do actually recommend Apple products to people whose computer I just cleared of tons of crapware for the umpteenth time. Those people, nice as they are, can't wrap their head around "free software" and "running a scan" so they need to be restricted. And, full disclosure, I even went with the iPhone and iPad. I actually wanted to be limited to the walled-garden instead of inevitably downloading poorly-programmed Android apps that choke my device and leaves me scrambling to delete things at the worst possible time.  (I'm basing that experience on the original Droid, by the way. I'm sure it's gotten better by now.)

[shmokes]

I'm not talking about phones and tablets. Anyway, my phone is a Nokia Lumia 920 (Windows Phone) and if I were buying one today it would most likely be an HTC One (Android). I thought my emphasis on notebooks was fairly clear from the line: All I want is an exceptional 11" notebook, and I'd even settle for a 13". I want a Windows 8 device, but nothing can compete with a Macbook Air. Not in specs. Not in price. Not in battery life. Not in keyboard. And god knows not in trackpad.

If someone has something more than blanket Apple insults and Microsoft defenses to offer (e.g., examples), I'm all ears. Remember the part about, "I want a Windows 8 device . . . ." Any Windows laptop that comes close to the specs and build-quality of a Macbook Air has a higher starting price, and at best it only comes close to the build and performance of the Apple notebook. You guys are just flat-wrong.

[Vigo]

They are blanket insults because they are blanket truths.

I thought my emphasis on notebooks was fairly clear from the line: All I want is an ultra-expense minature laptop that I have to squint to see what is on the low rez baby sized screen, and yet expect the fastest processor on the market placed in it for all the things I can't really do because I have a restrictive POS operating system. I want a Windows 8 device, but I will ignore the fact that a $1000+ laptop should at least include a touchscreen. So I will pretend that awesome battery life is important, cuz I really always end up sitting on a subway car for 12 hours a day with the sound muted, the wifi off, and the screen faded to the lowest brightness setting, and don't bother backing an external battery pack.

Fixt it for you 

[shmokes]

Right . . . cos running low on laptop batteries is uncommon.