Any good reasons to hang onto a CRT monitor?

[shponglefan]

I tend to keep spare computer parts, including monitors.  I'm at a point where I have an extra LCD and CRT monitor, and am wondering if I should ditch the CRT at this point?

Although the one thing I can see using it for is to test timing of LCD screen refreshes (display lag tests).  I'm wondering if there are any other good reasons to hang onto it?

[epicfatigue]

depends on the CRT what is it how good is it, whats the size tube neck etc etc.

Any burn in how black is the screen when turned off.

[shponglefan]

It's a 17 inch Samsung 753 DF.  Still in good shape, no noticeable burn in.  I haven't used it much over the last half decade, since switching mainly to LCD monitors.  For while I'd occationally use it whenever I needed to hook up an old PC temporarily, but now that I have a surplus LCD screen as well, I don't see myself even doing that.

[epicfatigue]

id check the neck board see how many pins it has, could whack a arcade chassis on it more then likely and have a true arcade monitor.

Beats LCDS hands down.

[Howard_Casto]

Beats LCDS hands down.

Not really.  I used to think that way until I made the switch.  While I definitely recommend crts for restorations and true arcade pcbs, for emulation lcds have so many benefits and so few drawbacks... they are just better, especially now that we can fake crt dot pitches via shaders. 

But we are talking about a pc monitor here......  They have their uses of course, but 17 inchers are pretty much limited to cocktails and cabarets.

[epicfatigue]

Beats LCDS hands down.

Not really.  I used to think that way until I made the switch.  While I definitely recommend crts for restorations and true arcade pcbs, for emulation lcds have so many benefits and so few drawbacks... they are just better, especially now that we can fake crt dot pitches via shaders. 

But we are talking about a pc monitor here......  They have their uses of course, but 17 inchers are pretty much limited to cocktails and cabarets.

i Agree LCD's have come along way, but i am yet to see any LCD have a better picture then a genuine arcade monitor running in the correct resolution with a 1:1 pixel mapping.

[Howard_Casto]

Well if you are running MAME then it isn't going to be running in the correct resolution and it isn't going to have 1:1 pixel mapping.  So like I said... lcd. 

[epicfatigue]

Well if you are running MAME then it isn't going to be running in the correct resolution and it isn't going to have 1:1 pixel mapping.  So like I said... lcd. 

depends if you are using cracked drivers with the correct resolution then it would be
But thats not everyones cup of tea!

[Howard_Casto]

No it wouldn't.  In terms of 1:1 pixel aspect mame hasn't done that in years.  It isn't a resolution thing, it's a rendering method thing. 

[kahlid74]

Ehh, it's really up to you.  If you want more nostalgia you can use it for a project but otherwise, LCD/LED are just better overall.  Less power, better contrast ratios, etc.

If you do get rid of it, spend a few minutes to identify how to recycle it.

[nitz]

for emulation lcds have so many benefits and so few drawbacks... they are just better, especially now that we can fake crt dot pitches via shaders.

Howard nailed it here. Put a good quality LCD behind a smoked plexi with Mame's HLSL tweaked to suit your tastes and you'd hardly notice it's not a CRT - yes the CRT diehards will notice, but if you were a diehard, you wouldn't be asking this question.

I resisted LCDs for a long time, but now that I've converted, I don't want to go back. You just can't beat the convenience and cost, and as far as I'm concerned, stuff like HLSL is an acceptable workaround to rectify it not looking like a CRT.

I've got two 17" CRT computer monitors and a 20" CRT TV in my closet. I've been clinging to them because they still work so great, but I think I'm gonna be getting rid of them this summer. I can't see myself using them again and I need the storage space for other stuff. Hopefully I can give them away to someone who would use them, but I suspect I may end up having to just recycle them. Seems like no one wants these things anymore outside of niche hobbies like ours.

[shponglefan]

TBH, I don't see myself using this for arcade purposes.  To me the portability and reduced power consumption of LCDs outweigh the 'authenticity' of a CRT monitor.

Mainly it's just other uses I'm wondering about.  But I can't really think of anything offhand other than input lag testing.  Which admittedly might be a good enough reason to hang onto it.

[shponglefan]

If you do get rid of it, spend a few minutes to identify how to recycle it.

Yeah, I have a local computer recycling center that's good about taking all sorts of electronics.  In fact, I downsized 4-5 CRT monitors and several PCs this past year.

[ark_ader]

Donate it to a Chinese reclamation processing facility.

Looks like they need the work.




Is that a good enough reason for you?

[Gray_Area]

They import the junk?...or export it?  They just haven't got one of those plasma arc lasers, ta ash everything down, and then throw bac on it an make biofuel.

@pongle: No.

Longer answer: if that one feature you mentioned isn't a reason, then no.

[epicfatigue]

i Guess i must be a Crt junkie,

I have used a 29inch Samgung Gen9 3d Computer monitor at 120Hz (Gaming Screen)
Aswell as a standard LED and i didnt find anything looked as good as my refurbished WG-k7000 using calamity drivers.

Side by side i liked the CRT much more ( all the effects were enabled on MAME)

And side by side an original arcade machine running the same game i could not tell the difference (AVP)

I just find there is a smoother effect and i love the rounded edges you get to a CRT.
It might just be because as a kid i never played a LED game.

Mainly because they were not around neither were CDs!

[Howard_Casto]

i Guess i must be a Crt junkie,

I have used a 29inch Samgung Gen9 3d Computer monitor at 120Hz (Gaming Screen)
Aswell as a standard LED and i didnt find anything looked as good as my refurbished WG-k7000 using calamity drivers.

Side by side i liked the CRT much more ( all the effects were enabled on MAME)

And side by side an original arcade machine running the same game i could not tell the difference (AVP)

I just find there is a smoother effect and i love the rounded edges you get to a CRT.
It might just be because as a kid i never played a LED game.

Mainly because they were not around neither were CDs!

Just enabling them isn't enough, you've got the tweak the heck out of the default settings to get a reasonable simulation, and then you've got to put it behind smoked plexi.  I'm not saying that you can't tell the difference if you got both monitors running side by side but if you DON'T have them running side by side you would be hard pressed to tell much of a difference. 

My guess is we are all about the same age as you if not older (check the age thread) we didn't play games on lcds either. 


But silly arguments aside.... there are still a very select few reasons to keep a crt.  If you want some true light gun action be it on a console or via mame, you'll need a crt.  Crt's are also brighter than lcds, so if you have a setup where you want to reflect an image via a mirror (older cabs with overlays) then a crt works better.  If you ever want to build a CNC machine or something else that might be in a hazardous environment then a crt would be more durable. If you like to haunt for Halloween take a crt, hook it up to a pc or media player, put it in a chair facing up, get some plexi and put the whole thing in a window for a floating head illusion.    They also make great boat anchors I'm told. 

I'm about to get rid of a buttload of crt tvs this summer but I'll probably keep a small one.  Why?  Because if I want to use R.O.B. or a Zapper again, I'll need to hook my nes up to a CRT. 

[epicfatigue]

thanks for the lesson sorry to hijack the thread, i have spent the last 6 months hunting for a replacement CRT  for when mine fails (which it will one day or another) now i can just say to myself go a LCD.

i didnt use smoked plexi !

[Vigo]

One point in favor of CRTs. Good luck finding a 4:3, 27 inch LCD.

[Howard_Casto]

You can't find 4:3, but 16:10 monitors are fairly easy to find and you can get a slightly larger one and it should still fit inside your cab. 

That's what I did... I think mines a 32 inch 16:10.... something like that?

[nitz]

One point in favor of CRTs. Good luck finding a 4:3, 27 inch LCD.

Granted, that's the one thing that sucks about LCD. Want something bigger than 21" but don't want widescreen? Too bad!

It's not a huge problem in everyday applications. If you want to view 4:3 content at 27", buy a 37" 16:9. (I know it would probably be more like 30" than 27", but I think that's the closest you'll get without being less than 27")

But our hobby is not an everyday application - the monitor needs to fit inside an arcade cab so then it sucks if you want a 27" monitor. Even if you decase it, I'd be surprised if a 37" fits in a 32" wide cab, and that's already way wider than standard.

It's not so much a problem for me as I prefer monitors in the 19"-21" range anyway. But yeah if you like 25"-27" you've either gotta go CRT or build one fat-ass cab.

You can't find 4:3, but 16:10 monitors are fairly easy to find and you can get a slightly larger one and it should still fit inside your cab. 

That's what I did... I think mines a 32 inch 16:10.... something like that?

Really? I recently went on a quest to find the biggest 16:10 out there and the biggest I found was 24" I found lots of references to a 28" made by Hanns-G, but it appears to be discontinued.

If you know of a source for anything bigger than 24", please share.

[Howard_Casto]

Nah they make em a lot bigger than that.  I think the limit is around 37 inches, but that model is REALLY hard to find. 

Mines a hanns-g that I got from tiger direct last year.  You won't find them in stores, only computer sites sell then and they are usually put on sale once or twice a year.  I looked for the manual to try and give you the exact model number and size but I couldn't find it.  All I know is my cab originally had a 27 inch crt television in it and before I purchased it I ran it through a aspect calculator and found that it was the equivalent of a ~23.875 inch crt.  I didn't de-case it and it fits with maybe a quarter of an inch on each side.  So it would easily fit in a MKII cab although you might have to de-case it.  Since 24-25 inches is the largest size they ever put in a traditional cabinet you don't really need a larger size in 16:10.  I mean yeah, some games used larger screens, but they were podium cabs, or racers ect.  In those sorts of setups you can just let the monitor hang out the sides.

I actually found when using the 27 inch crt in my mk2 styled cab that it was really too big.  I got a lot of eyestrain from having to scan sucha  large screen (where I was so close to it).  The new one's slightly smaller screen actually feels better for me. 

You've also got to keep in mind that a retro-fit and a new cab design are two totally different things.  Although I like the classic wooden cabinet look, if I were to design a new cab from scratch today, I'd base it on a modern arcade cabinet like the ones used for games like SF IV. 

[nitz]

I'm not seeing anything above 24" on Newegg, though TigerDirect does have some 30" - but the cheapest one is over $1000! Yikes. No monitor is big enough or good enough for me to drop a grand on.

I'm not actually looking for one of these anymore anyway. I gave up when I couldn't find any and just took my project in a different direction. It's good to know that there are some out there just the same. Seems like you gotta look hard and watch for sales though.

Anyway, we've strayed off topic a bit. I'm curious shponglefan, are you keeping the CRT monitor? It's hard to let a nice working item like that go, even when there's practically no reason to keep it isn't it?

[Howard_Casto]

Nah man, that's outrageous.  I think I paid 200 for mine, maybe 230?  Mind you it was 300+ prior to the sale, but I just kept a watch on it like a hawk. 

[Gray_Area]

CRTs are just better for classic games. The phosphors give out a richer color. Plus the blur of graphics is 'natural', like the smearing of oil.

Now, if I were going LCD, I wouldn't bother with a 4:3 display. There's black spaces on the sides of vertical games when I play on my main rig, so I'm used to that.

I love having a 27" tube. I'm bigger, and my peripheral vision is bigger than when I was a kid.

[Howard_Casto]

I love having a 27" tube. I'm bigger, and my peripheral vision is bigger than when I was a kid.

No it isn't.  Your eyes don't grow significantly from when you are a child to an adult. 

[epicfatigue]

I love having a 27" tube. I'm bigger, and my peripheral vision is bigger than when I was a kid.

No it isn't.  Your eyes don't grow significantly from when you are a child to an adult.

Maybe hes more aware of his surroundings just encase the Mrs smacks him with a rolled up newspaper for playing the arcade to much.
I know i am.

[Howard_Casto]

I'm just saying...... if you disagree with our opinion of the debate, that's cool, but he doesn't have to make stuff up.   

[Gray_Area]

......blinks.......

I'm bigger, my sense of proportion is different partly because of it. My life experience and frame of mind also contribute.

[orion]

I rarely see anyone considering particular games when it comes to this debate. First off you have to get the obvious off the table first. Vector games suck on anything other than a vector monitor. Space invaders in mame on an LCD=lame. Space invaders in its own dedicated cab with all original hardware however is one of the most memorizing gaming experiences ever. I would rather play the classics on a CRT with scanlines and the good old fashioned phosphor glow of a CRT. However, as much as I enjoy Metal Slug, Neogeo games are perfectly acceptable on an LCD to me. Laser disk games I'm fine with on an LCD, most fighters are fine. Galaga and Pacman though are severely lacking on an LCD. So IMHOP, sometimes LCDs are acceptable, sometimes they aren't.

[Gray_Area]

I rarely see anyone considering particular games when it comes to this debate. First off you have to get the obvious off the table first. Vector games suck on anything other than a vector monitor. Space invaders in mame on an LCD=lame. Space invaders in its own dedicated cab with all original hardware however is one of the most memorizing gaming experiences ever.

Maybe because you were already old, and the tech seemed new?  At seven or eight, I remember thinking the whole thing was terribly dull. Boring graphics with puppet show stage props. I don't quite think that now, but I still don't care for the game. At all.

Metal Slug is so cartoony, lack of scanlines doesn't hurt it.

Vector games look much better now that MAME has a vector shader.

[orion]

Mame has a vector shader now? I've been running the same version for the past 4 years now... I think I'm due for an update...

[RayB]

CRTs are just better for classic games. The phosphors give out a richer color. Plus the blur of graphics is 'natural', like the smearing of oil.

You may be on to something there. Just use LCD and wipe on a layer of oil.