found the right pots and have got them working perfect but will add more to them

[northerngames]

EDIT: thread updated further down.




are there any console controls of any type/make that use 100k analog pots?

or is it possible to use something like inline resistor to drop the 100k down to 10k like add the resitor to the legs of the 100k pot and attach the other end to the 10k pot solder spot on the pcb?

or can you just connect the 100k pot to a 10k solder spot and get the same result.

I am using a joystick/flight stick with 100k and wondering if I can get it to work with a console's 10K somehow or if these is actually a console controller that use's 100k analog I could just solder to type of thing.

[Howard_Casto]

I think some of the older Atari junk might use 100k, but I doubt that's what you are asking about. 

A pot basically IS a variable resistor.  A 100k pot resists from ~0k to around ~100k depending upon how far you turn the dial.  I think you can see the problem there. 

If your board is expecting a 10k pot, and you use a 100k one, you've hit full resistance after turning the knob only 10%.  Adding another resistor would only worsen the problem.  Likewise if you use a 10k, on a 100k board, even after turning the pot all the way, you've only got the resistance to up by 10%. 

The only solution in either case is software.  In windows it's quite easy.... just calibrate your new joystick in the windows control panel and although you might lose some resolution (typically not a big deal) your values will read correctly. 

Now if you are hooking it up to a game console you are going to run into trouble, as typically you can't calibrate controllers. 

Of course the proper solution is to just use a pot with the proper value.  Sometimes finding the right value can be hard, but it's well worth it due to the lack of hassle.

I hope some of that helps. 

[danny_galaga]

Can you not pull it apart and install whatever resistance pot you need?

[northerngames]

cool thanks for the info.

if I can find the same size and shape in a 10k instead of 100k I could but I need to find it's match if I can.

I am still waiting to get it in and have not had a chance to tear into it to see what I am even dealing with yet.

I am trying to get it for pc use only mainly.

the stick is 100k and gameport where I was thinking I take a wired 360 controller and make it happen plug and play on pc and 360 but mainly pc becuase the layout can be set on the fly for each key set.

I got the dual analog joystick the ps1 used and sticking a psone pcb in it and using the usb adapter so I have a dual flightstick pc set up for both ps1 ps2 and pc where both sticks are independant.

now I am after the same for a old school thrustmaster set using 2 wired original xbox pcb's if I can pull it off somehow where one is for the weapons/throttle system and the other one for the flight stick.

this way there usb plug and play and will work on current pc's ps1 ps2 xbox and also save me 300+ 

[northerngames]

worst case I am pretty sure I can stick some 10k's in there and replace them completely.

I seen a site where a guy got some from radio shack and cut the shaft to length and shape but pretty sure I found an exact fit/replacement with no hacking anything up off of ebay.

I will post up my results of all these wild builds when there done but if they work these are going to be awesome for gaming on various machine's.

what started it all was the dual analog playstion joystick scph-1110 I wanted a dual 2 player setup of those for some smash tv and the like but also for mech games and the like.

the only problem with them is both sticks are seen as the same stick except thier buttons so as stock there like a single stick analog controller but when I am done they will be sepeate and ran off a psone dualshock pcb so the sticks are completely seperate from one another.

for this flight setup in this thread I want to use the best they made back in the day becuase everything out there now looks and feels like crap where back then they used military graded parts so I am going with them and attempting to make them work on current setup's through usb off wired xbox controllers & wired psone controllers.

[northerngames]

I read I another forum where one said you could take X10 10k resistors and run them in a line off the signal output of the pot and it would drop it from the 100K to a 10k.

is the correct also or more internet myth again 

I have some pots on the way that appear to bit a fit but still looking for options.

I also seen where one took a analog pot and turned it into a hall effect using the pot housing somehow but lost the link without saving it 

[Howard_Casto]

I think it's just a confused individual trying to give good advice.

Yes technically you can, but for reasons I'll explain, I certainly wouldn't recommend it.  The formula is:

Rsum=R1*R2/(R1+R@), where R1 and R2 are the values of the pot resistance and the resistors you add on.  But the pot has been designed for 100k tolerances and by reducing it to only 10% of it's value you'll probably run into resolution issues.    More importantly, you've thrown the balance of the pot off, as I've mentioned earlier.  Turning the pot 50% will not give 50% resistance... it could give as much as 98% to a full 100% 

People mention that it's possible because for a non-directional device like a volume knob on a radio the balance isn't really that important.  Since you'll be using it for a controller, it certainly is. 

Let's put it this way... the electronics of the controller expect a 10k pot.  No matter what you do they are always going to expect a 10k pot... so use a 10k pot. 

Also remember that the only part of a pot that needs to fit is the shaft... you can mount the static part of the pot differently... so you'll be hard pressed to be in a situation where you can't find a pot that will fit. 

[AndyWarne]

It should not make any difference what the value of the pot is. It should work in exactly the same way unless its wired as a variable resistor (ie only using two of the 3 connections) rather than a pot which is highly unlikely.

[northerngames]

cool thanks.

I got some on the way that are the 6mm spline type 10k's and hoping they will just fit or with little modding.

I was just checking to see if there was any other possible ways to whip something up while I wait and give it a try but I will just wait till they show and go from there.

I ordered from thailand so they wont show for another week probably.

I also have the dual analog stick project going keeping me busy too with the sticks splie like a controller and about 3/4 done with the first one along with the pics and tutorial.

I also accuired a 2nd so I can have some smash tv like never before as long there pots work.

not sure if I am going to use a xbox or playstaion pcb in that one though but thinking some mech assualt would be pretty cool with these beast.

there 10k and match the pcb 10k so it theory this twin stick project should work perfect.

I want them both the twin sticks and this flight stick project to work bad though and like a kid all over again 

[northerngames]

It should not make any difference what the value of the pot is. It should work in exactly the same way unless its wired as a variable resistor (ie only using two of the 3 connections) rather than a pot which is highly unlikely.

they do have the 3 wires on them.

I think the voltage and ground leg would not matter between the two but the OHMs would but I dunno and why I am asking you guys 

[Howard_Casto]

It was my understanding that even with a three leg setup (which was not what I was referring to for the record.  ) it largely depended upon the pcb and it's firmware as to how it read it.  Andy would certainly know more about it then I do though. 

[northerngames]

in this case they are the official xbox or ps1 controller pcb's but they are for sure 10k and not sure if there range is variable or not when it comes to Ohms.

hell should I just try it straight up and see or it possible it may ruin the pcb becuase it is a 100ohm pot going to a pcb that expects 10k.

if it is not going to hurt to try I might as well while I wait for the pots.

I just got the stick in and must say compared to the modern stuff they all suck big time compared to the feel of this thing.

I have pots on the way for the throttle and am now looking for the one's for the stick becuase then ends differ on the pots between the two one is a splined shaft in the throttle where the stick has a C shape or half cut keyed circle and look to be about a 3/4" long shaft.

if I could just what is in there now even know they are 100k and hook them to the 10k pcb that would be totally awesome but I am attacking this from all angles and trying to make it work.

you guy's think I can try it straight up just to see with no harm done and if so I willl try it while I wait, might as well at least try it if wont hurt 

awesome I found the pot maker and looks like I can get them in 10k direct fit.

http://www.ctscorp.com/components/Datasheets/295.pdf

in the pic the one on the right looks like what is in the stick and the one on the left looks like the throttle and the one in the stick is made by cts so although they dont have the stockers no more I am thinking I may get lucky and find direct fit 10k's from them hopefully.

[northerngames]

Ok so I got the 15mm and the 17mm 10k splined shaft 6mm pots from thailand for the throttle side and the 17mm fit the gear/sprocket better then stock the gears alighn and mesh better then stock and also they have to crush/pinch there shaft end where this just slid home nice and tight with no modding.

these actually outdue there stock one's when it comes to fit and feel lol.

I also got cts to send me a sample and everything matches to the T except the shaft was a
1/4" to long but it came with a part# and with the link above's chart I think I have a direct fitting 10k pot source to bring them old thrustmasters back to life and fully programable on xp.

I am also going to add more hats and toggles on my throttle since I have plenty more signals off the ps or xbox pcb then thrustmaster ever had on there.

the ps dual stick mod I did turned out to work 100% and now there is no reason these badd ass thrustmaster should not work better then ever now.

btw these would make some sick arcade joys beings some are actual full scale mil spec. 

if one were to mount two of the f-16 sticks you would have 8 4-way hats right off the get and that is not even including the triggers and buttons yet to get an idea of how nuts I can actually makes these things as long as I can find the stick pots wich I am almost certain its a done deal so far.

[northerngames]

some spy cam photo's of the elf's lab 

[northerngames]

there 100k with smashed spline



my 10k replacement



Btw... mine is a bit more level and has a more smoother travel now becuase the gears are now meshing correctly and should last these are 2 different new out of the box throttles so the teeth are not shot/worn on theirs yet

[northerngames]

well that stinks I have a cheap source for the throttle pots but cts wrote me back and nobody has them and they do a minimum $1000.00 production run wich would get me 58 of the pots that are direct drop ins.

if there was enough interest I would grab them still but I have no clue how many would want a set up like this or how much it would cost for me to build them for a set price just yet.

I am still looking though and may just have to fab some exsisting one's that are out there is all but I am not throwing in the towel on these just yet.

[mandijames]

Can you not pull it apart and install whatever resistance pot you need?

[northerngames]

if I can find the same length shaft same diameter shaft same key in the shaft all in 10k ohm and same rotation limits sure.

I spent over 20 hours on the net is the past 3 day's looking for that one 

[northerngames]

I found some that match up perfect if the gear/pinion is flipped the other way around to make up the shaft difference on the pot.

I also have a box of some more pots to try coming from some retired rocket guy from australia clearing out his stash and I can cut those back to length.

I am geekin though becuase I have pots that will work and a cheap source in the states to get them from.

I have everything in the pics totally stripped part for part at the moment and am even going to mix them for the best setup.

anyone know the trick to getting one of the playstations analog pots to work as digital?

if so I can keep one side for the stick functions in analog but make the other stick digital to work as 4 buttons.

the stick has X4 4-way hats and 4 buttons so that is 20 and the analog stick needed.

D-pad

up
down
left
right

buttons

square
triangle
X
circle

shoulder buttons

R1
R2
L1
L2

added in

start
select
stick r2 function
stick 3s function

analog stick to digital

right
left
up
down

change the download switch in the joy itself over to the mode switch for the controller pcb

that is the goal for that stick to be able to use all of the playstaion pcb functions for all of the stick functions.

should be a very slick stick when all said and done now that it is USB plug and play lol 

the throttle pots I added already make them feel better then new so I am hoping I get the same feel outta these sticks wich I should 

[northerngames]

still waiting on the australia pots to come in for these.

in the meantime CTS is sending me the correct parts to swap the exsisting pots over to a direct fit 10K...Yeahh BoYY!! 

I also picked up a FLCS pro all metal casing stick to mix and match in with the others.

it is the perfect fit for the wife's hands but on the small side for mine while the x-fighter is a scale mold of the real deal fighter jet and them baby's fit me like a glove 

I should be able to mix and match most the stick to whatever type base if needed to.

it is hard to say which is the best of the 5 different models becuase each has the + & - when it comes to overall feel and base weight/sturdyness.

flcs pro is nice becuase everything is metal except the stick handle molding and it is probably the heaviest of all. it's downfall is the base is on the small side and wobbles rather easy and also the stick is on the small side. it also does not leave one with much room to work with on the inside when thrwoing a controller pcb in there but it is possible just have to do it all fancy becuase it is going to be a tight fit is all.

there plain jane flcs is the same as above but all plastic so I wont bother with this one or the top gun series.

the X-fighter now this is thick plastic through out with a huge base and a metal plate mounted in the bottom and to me this is the best feeling stick of them all becuase it is the only scale jet fighter stick they made then and it fits my hand perfectly.

feels great nice and heavy with the metal plate in the base and these stay put the only flaw is the base is not metal otherwise I would say these are the best of them all.

the f-16 flcs is all plastic but has 4 hat's as opposed to 1 like the above mentioned so that is a plus but there problem is there the same base as the top guns and regular flcs with no weight all plastic and very wobbley.

now on to the f-22 pro this is there top of the line for the time it is all metal except the stick handle casing and has the hardest coiled springs of the bunch. while the base is still not as big as the X-fighter is still stays put good and also has the 4 hats like that f-16 there the same thing stick wise but base wise the f-22 size and weight beats the f-16 plastic version hands down becuase it is smaller based and all plastic.

the best of them to me so far is the x-fighter for the 4 button 1 hat setups and most comfortable stick feel of them all and f-22 pro becuase it is all metal base with stiff springs and has the 4 hats.

I am thinking of leaving the one x-fighter like it is but taking the other's stick off and throwin it on the f-22 base and put the f-22 stick on a x-fighter base.

once I get into actually playing games with them I will see if I want to make the custom change over or not but it is also possible and once I get that far I can say without doubt wich one is the best of them all around..

 

[northerngames]

I been working alot lately but still poking on these when I can and so far I got 2 sticks to do as I please and there is one in particular that I am going to try to stock up on while I can becuase everyone is going to want one for there cab when I finally show and tell.

untill there a done deal with some other things I will release the builds of them and also offer a mail in service for those that already have one or dont have the skills to pull it off making there own.

for now all I can say is good things are coming 

[northerngames]

small update.

I got these working on ps1 ps2 xbox I could do 360 wired or wireless but the console's need to run off one controller pcb for the stick and throttle so something like a vga port need's to be added to the stick and the wire's ran through it kinda like they were when stock with the old tech.

but now on pc xbox and ps controllers cen be used with either pcb in each stock or throttle without a cable running to the two.

console's would see each pcb 1 in each stick and each throttle as two controllers where the pc see's them as whatever signal you want as keyboard and mouse functions using xpadder for xbox and whatever the one is for the playstation's don't recall the name but will edit it when I do lol.

anyhow with pc even a xbox in one and playstation in the other can still be sefl mapped to do anything really.

playing from beachhead or space harrier to current pc games of all type's.

all I can say is they dont make store bought pc sticks like these except the warthog this is very expensive but I can get the same out of these if I really wanted too hahaha 

with two xbox controllers wich means two signals from x,y,a,b,lt,rt,l3,r3,back,start,black,white and then each stick's up down left right and left as either my choice of digital or analog.

that's a whopping 56 seperate signal's if I wanted to go crazy and in the stick base's and throttle base's there is ton's of room.

I got hurt and had no time for these but getting back into them.

I plan to add a xbox thumbstick assembly and D-pad on one of the of throttle sticks along with at least 6 mini buttons too.

I need to go to the scrap yard and get some 1/2" steel plate and fill the bottom of the base's with a slab of thick metal to weight them down and then use like a 1/4" rubber foam type stuff for the base bottom so it dont scratch but stay's planted good.

I been dying to order a bartop from the bst but I want two I want one for regular buttons and joy's and the other with one of these flight stick's and throttle assemblies built right into the control panel so the only thing you see is the handle coming out of the wood and the throttle stick coming out of the wood and of course a spinner in the center for some tron!!

I am happy with the look and feel of these and glad i got into them.

I have tried many makes and models cheap and expensive and they all feel like junk toy's to these too and what started my madness here to begin with but hey it work's and does whatever I please.

I also use terminal blocks on the inside for the console's so I can make a said button on the controller be changed over to this said button on the stick or throttle by switching the wires around in the terminal block.

another thing the pc does not care about becuase they all can be manually mapped to mimmic the keyboard or mouse.

it's late and enough rambling for now but this works guy's and worth the effort.

I also did the same with the original playstation dual analog sticks and I dont mean the controller you hold in your hand I mean the one that has two flight stick's on one base they led to the dual analog controller that you hold in your hands.

little more rare but there around and well worth the money playing mech assualt or similiar.

xbox controller pcb in that one is how that happend and for those two games alone was worth it to me. it just makes it all feel that much more agressive throwing two arm's around and their throw is like no other either and kinda makes you feel like your in one 

now i just need some 2-3" 1080p screens and make some sun glass's out of them and perhaps become the next lawnmower man 

[northerngames]

been awhile since I have gottem around to more custom controller building but I still have all this going on and put to the side.

I still plan on getting everything pictured going as intended as some already are I just have had no time lately.

I been into building custom rc monster trucks again and doing 1/1 repairs on my dodge, home, saving up and buying a fancy mill drill, lathe, press's etc. for custom metal parts and what not so it's all drained me pocket and body wise

I will be back in the loop come fall though.

I plan on decking out one of H's bartops soon as I get the funds and time again.