Pianocade: Arcade parts meets musical instrument

[shponglefan]

I thought this was particularly cool: http://www.pianocade.com/

It might be neat to try to build something similar...

[Gray_Area]

That's pretty cool. Probably a bit above most people here, though....

[Howard_Casto]

I don't think that's the reason for the lack of response.  I heard about this thing last summer.  For whatever reason it's making it's rounds on all the gaming sites again, but this thing is OLD news. 

[ark_ader]

What a bad idea.

[Vigo]

It's completely awesome if you fall into this demographic (Somewhat NSFW):

[shponglefan]

I was wondering when That Guy was going to show up.  And two of 'em so far.  Good job fellas, stay classy. 

[Howard_Casto]

To be fair, if you post an incredibly stupid idea you should expect people to point out what a stupid idea it is. 

In know non-musicians can't seem to grasp this, but the piano is actually an ANALOG instrument.  The sound of the notes changes depending upon how hard and how long you hold down the keys.  To make it full on digital, and not only that but to map things to non-keys hat aren't suited for playing but merely add a superficial aesthetic value, well it just doesn't make sense unless you are a hipster doofus that wants to pretend they are playing an instrument when they really aren't.   

[shponglefan]

To be fair, if you post an incredibly stupid idea you should expect people to point out what a stupid idea it is.

I'm amazed people even beging to think it's an "incredibly stupid" idea.  I think it's interesting and innovative and give the creator props for that.  It's trying something different, and I can't believe people would ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- on that (although this *is* the Internet I suppose).

But coming from a forum where people devote utterly ridiculous amounts of time to build arcade stuff, it seems doubly dumbfounding.

In know non-musicians can't seem to grasp this, but the piano is actually an ANALOG instrument.  The sound of the notes changes depending upon how hard and how long you hold down the keys.  To make it full on digital, and not only that but to map things to non-keys hat aren't suited for playing but merely add a superficial aesthetic value, well it just doesn't make sense unless you are a hipster doofus that wants to pretend they are playing an instrument when they really aren't.

But it's not trying to be a real piano; it's a synth.  I don't think anyone who is buying this would think otherwise.  So that complaint makes no sense.

And it's hardly the first synth instrument to use non-standard keys as well (Pocket Piano, Monotron, Analog 4, etc).

[Vigo]

You want a full thought out answer? OK, I'll be honest: This thing blows as an instrument. I agree with Howard. The dude in the end of the "feature demo" video couldn't even slide up the note scale without getting his fingers stuck on the buttons. And keep in mind that he could have as many takes of that shot as he wanted to get it right.

And for reasons other than what HC mentioned, my biggest beef is this is only a 4 bit, square tone synth, based on NES hardware. Besides the obvious fact that an original Nintendo IS NOT AN ARCADE MACHINE, the sound chip was the most underdeveloped part of the NES system. I loved that console dearly, but it's sound chip was just awful comparing the sound to any other platform. Just compare it to the SID chip from a c64, (released 3 years prior). The SID chip could handle various waveforms and filters to create dynamic audio tones. Arcade machines were usually even better. Even a couple years before the NES was released, arcade machines were commonly running 16 bit synth chips that could handle a much larger battery of sound. Arcade games sounded amazing back in the day, and the pianocade wouldn't be able to capture that in the least.

So in essence this is a $500 control panel with an audio chip about as advanced as my toddlers Fisher Price piano. I'm not gonna praise a hard to play, poor sounding synth simply because it is "Retro cool". It's just an overpriced piece of hipster garbage.

[Howard_Casto]

Well that's the thing... synth doesn't mean digital, it means synthetic.  The old electric keyboard is still synth, but at the same time, you've got analog keys, and analog manipulation of that synthetic sample via all your tweak buttons.  Your cheaper keyboards are digital sure, but professional musicians don't really use the cheaper ones almost exclusively for that reason.

I know this is going to butt hurt a lot of the chip tunes kiddies out there, but they aren't "playing" stuff, they are merely activating samples via the pressing of a key.  So it's guitar hero.  Sure it's guitar hero with more buttons, but it's still guitar hero.  I mean I've seen youtube videos of these poor, hopeless individuals "performing" in front of a massive crowd of 12 people on a modified Gameboy and they actually think they are doing something, even though the device only has two digital buttons, so they couldn't possibly be contributing anything to the playback of their samples.  This, to me at least, is just an extension of that..... all form, absolutely no function. 

When I see that thing, I think that somebody wasted a lot of buttons on a speak n spell  that could have been put on a really nice arcade cab instead. 

[ChadTower]

I would totally play an arcade cab with a speak n spell on it.

[Gray_Area]

Howard.....dude....for real.

It's a controller and tone generator. I think the sounds are cool, in an abstracted context. Not that the NES game sounds weren't bad. They actually were top notch for a console system. Computers and consoles before the 90s were not comparable items. Not to mention arcade and console systems. Cost and marketability, remember.   Where's that 'smacky..." graemlin..........

[Vigo]

But who cares if the NES sounded "good for a console", it was bad for an arcade machine. This is an arcade control panel. You insist that arcade machines and consoles are not comparable, then why would you want to stick a crappy 4 bit flat audio chip on Arcade controls?

Also, the NES only sounded as good as it did because most better brand carts had onboard chips that expanded the audio capability. Meaning that this synth chip can't even handle a large number of NES tunes accurately.

If you think this is a good purchase, go ahead and buy one. I look forward to your review. 

[DaveMMR]

IANAM but as a casual observer, I agree with Howard and Vigo. Don't understand why you'd even begin consider using this instead of just tapping on a computer using cheaper software for music creation. For performing, that looks completely unintuitive. Was there a problem with the standard keyboard (the one that looks like a piano, not the one that looks like a typewriter) that needed to be improved upon?

[shponglefan]

You want a full thought out answer? OK, I'll be honest: This thing blows as an instrument. I agree with Howard. The dude in the end of the "feature demo" video couldn't even slide up the note scale without getting his fingers stuck on the buttons. And keep in mind that he could have as many takes of that shot as he wanted to get it right.

I already pointed out, this is hardly the first instrument w/ non-standard keys: Monotron, Monotribe, Analog 4, TB-303 and various clones, WASP, etc.  So that's not a particularly valid criticism, especially since it features MIDI input (so one could use an external sequencer or keyboard to play it).

And for reasons other than what HC mentioned, my biggest beef is this is only a 4 bit, square tone synth, based on NES hardware. Besides the obvious fact that an original Nintendo IS NOT AN ARCADE MACHINE, the sound chip was the most underdeveloped part of the NES system. I loved that console dearly, but it's sound chip was just awful comparing the sound to any other platform. Just compare it to the SID chip from a c64, (released 3 years prior). The SID chip could handle various waveforms and filters to create dynamic audio tones. Arcade machines were usually even better. Even a couple years before the NES was released, arcade machines were commonly running 16 bit synth chips that could handle a much larger battery of sound. Arcade games sounded amazing back in the day, and the pianocade wouldn't be able to capture that in the least.

This is actually the one point I would agree with; as a synth, it doesn't sound particularly impressive, even for a retro chiptune synth.  There are better options out there.  For the pricepoint, something like a Monotribe or Shruthi are much more capable synths.

However, since this was a labour of love and DIY experimental project (and also trying to keep costs reasonable, I am sure), we got what we got.  But where you see "overpriced garbage", I see an idea worth expanding on or experimenting with.  Not every idea is going to start out a surefire winner.

So in essence this is a $500 control panel

$250-325 for the initial preoders.  Complaining about the price isn't particularly valid either, given the cost of parts involved and fact that it's a hand-assembled limited run deal.  It's not like this is being made in a factory in China and shipped to every Wal-mart.  Comparably, even something like a Shruthi is going to run over $350.  And hey, we spend hundreds (or thousands) on building retro-arcade machines and controllers ad naseum... So pot, kettle, etc.

[shponglefan]

Well that's the thing... synth doesn't mean digital, it means synthetic.

Right, but you were comparing it to a real piano for some reason.  Nobody in their right mind is going to mistake this thing for a real piano, so I'm not even sure what your original point of bringing that up was in the first place.

The old electric keyboard is still synth, but at the same time, you've got analog keys, and analog manipulation of that synthetic sample via all your tweak buttons.  Your cheaper keyboards are digital sure, but professional musicians don't really use the cheaper ones almost exclusively for that reason.

Synths are typically divided into analog or digital not based on keys or knobs, but rather based on underlying circuitry (oscillators, filters, etc) and whether that's analog or digital.  And a lot of early synths didn't have velocity sensitivity.  Their keys were just on/off.  Later synths started adding velocity curves, but they tend to be digital not analog in terms of a fixed number of increments.

I know this is going to butt hurt a lot of the chip tunes kiddies out there, but they aren't "playing" stuff, they are merely activating samples via the pressing of a key. So it's guitar hero.

You've just described every single digital sample-based instrument ever.  If I sat you down in front of a Clarinova and had you play something, would that be "guitar hero" to you?

At the end of the day, it just comes to degree of sophistication, not black-and-white categories.

When I see that thing, I think that somebody wasted a lot of buttons on a speak n spell  that could have been put on a really nice arcade cab instead.

And meanwhile someone is looking at all the money we waste on these arcade controls that could have been used to feed the homeless.  Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think what an utterly ridiculous statement that was.  As though somehow arcade cabinets of all things (basically glorified time wasters) are higher on the cosmic pecking order than DIY synth instruments.  It's just absurd.

[shponglefan]

IANAM but as a casual observer, I agree with Howard and Vigo. Don't understand why you'd even begin consider using this instead of just tapping on a computer using cheaper software for music creation. For performing, that looks completely unintuitive. Was there a problem with the standard keyboard (the one that looks like a piano, not the one that looks like a typewriter) that needed to be improved upon?

Well, that's one way to look at it.  If one just wants to make music then there are other better/easier alternatives out there.

The flipside, though, is that it's trying something new or different.  It doesn't necessarily have to be flawless or even the greatest idea ever.  It's the seed of innovation that's important.  Then maybe someone else comes along and takes the idea further; they look at what worked or what didn't and try to improve on it.

For me (someone who is also interested in synths and electronics), the Pianocade is an intriguing idea.  I've thought about ways of integrating arcade parts w/ music before (esp. after seeing things like the MIDI Fighter and other MIDI controllers using arcade parts).  This took it a step further by integrating a synth.  So yeah, at least for me, it's a source of ideas.

[Vigo]

It's a frankenpiano. A freakish crime against nature. I learned long ago that mixing two awesome things usually ends up with a far less awesome outcome.


It might seem like a cool idea to duct tape a toaster on a poodle so you don't have to get up from watching TV to make a pop tart......but it's not. It really, really is not. I really miss FiFi....

[lordnacho]

It might seem like a cool idea to duct tape a toaster on a poodle so you don't have to get up from watching TV to make a pop tart......but it's not. It really, really is not. I really miss FiFi....

I even got a guy to gold plate my cat
I don't regret much, but I do regret that

Sorry my kids are obsessed with the Muppets Sountrack. 

[Vigo]

It might seem like a cool idea to duct tape a toaster on a poodle so you don't have to get up from watching TV to make a pop tart......but it's not. It really, really is not. I really miss FiFi....

I even got a guy to gold plate my cat
I don't regret much, but I do regret that

Sorry my kids are obsessed with the Muppets Sountrack.

if i could start over i'd do it all the same
but i wouldn't gold plate little twinkles again


I love the muppets too!

[lordnacho]

Hah never noticed the statue. 

[Gray_Area]

Mmm-mmmm-mmmmmm. Lotta fuss over very little.