Anyone interested in an Arduino based ROM dumper?

[tobiasbp]

Hello forum.

I'm considering building a ROM dumper based on the Arduino. Initially I would support the Mitsubishi M5L 2716K as it's on one of my boards. My own interest is in older boards/ROMs only.

• I wonder if anyone but me would be interested in such a thing?
  
• What other chips should I consider adding support for?
• Did someone allready build such a thing?

Tobias

[lilshawn]

I think most anybody who has to deal with ROMs already has a programmer supporting 100's if not 1000's of chips.

it's not an issue to use them to dump the ROM contents. On the software for my programmer it's simply a press of the read button right above the write button.

  an arduino + parts to interface to the computer is likely going to cost more than a Chinese eBay programmer is going to be. 

[tobiasbp]

an arduino + parts to interface to the computer is likely going to cost more than a Chinese eBay programmer is going to be. 

Can you supply a link to such a "chinese" programmer? What is the linux support on that type of device I wonder?

[lilshawn]

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Universal-PIC-FLASH-MPU-EPROM-Programmer-27C256-27C512-U03-/200902210315?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec6b4730b&_uhb=1


for $27US shipped. I'm not sure about linux support. you'd have to inquire with the manufacturer about that. I know nothing of this programmer. This was just the first example I found that supports your particular chip. (plus a couple hundred others)

But, like most things, you get what you pay for. you could have a continuously supported programmer of exceptional quality for $1000+ but have something that has manufacturer support, warranty etc.

[Howard_Casto]

I like the cheap Chinese crap.  Usually when I have to get some odd ball thing it's a one use deal or it's for experimentation.  That "99 cents + free shipping" tech on ebay is great for that kind of thing. 

Just don't put it in the now non-existent space shuttle. 

[tobiasbp]

That programmer on eBay appears to only have support for windows. It also needs a parallel port I think. Can't beat the prize though!

Anyway, my main motivation for doing this is self education. I was just trying to drum up some supporters for the project;)

If I wanted to support classic arcade boards, how many types of chips would I likely need to support? Do older boards use very similar chips?

[lilshawn]

there is probably 20 or so main eeproms, but the requirements between manufacturers to read/write them varies greatly.

some need 5 volt, others 6, 12, yet still others 24 volts. most of the logic is all 5 volt though.

the advantage to a universal programmer such as the "top" series Chinese programmers is that all that is taken in account and is automatically fed the proper voltages on the proper pins to do your reads/writes.

is there any particular reason you have to run linux? if all you want to do is dump ROMS, and for what i have no idea since probably 99.9% of game roms are dumped in mame already... it's not hard to set up an old windows machine to do it. there is no speed advantage anywhere. eeroms transfer at a speed easily attainable by even the first 80c86 computer.

[tobiasbp]

is there any particular reason you have to run linux?

I'm a supporter of open source software and hardware. I choose to run GNU/Linux.

I'm considering this build to educate myself.

[lilshawn]

fair enough.

I would look at finding a general purpose rom such as and start from there.

you will probably find that roms such as:
27C010
27C011
27C101
27C020
27C040
27C080

are all the same (electrically and logically they are the same.) except the end read/write address is different in each one.

alldatasheet.com is your friend.

[Malenko]

maybe you could email steph at hobbyroms for some help?

[Howard_Casto]

is there any particular reason you have to run linux?

I'm a supporter of open source software and hardware. I choose to run GNU/Linux.

That's like saying that you are a supporter of the American auto industry but rather than purchase an American car, you do it the hard way and buy an American-made kit car.... assembling a car yourself of questionable quality and functionality.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with using Linux when it's suited to the task, but insisting on using it merely to prove some kind of point to yourself is extremely silly.   

The best way to support THE CONCEPT of open source hardware and software is to release the source to any creations you make.  What you use is irrelevant, especially in the case of an os on a pc to transfer data over to an avr.  The bad thing about open-source stuff is generally the people that thought it up will see none of your money and that's the only true way to support a product.... with your money.  By using open-source software and not directly paying it's creators (which is generally how it works, even for Linux) you are giving absolutely nothing, rather you are taking something.  So you really aren't supporting it. 

I'm sorry to be harsh but I always hear that line to which I reply:  "Did you purchase a license for the build of Linux you are running?" Naturally they so no, so I ask:  "Well did you submit some source code?" Again, I get a no.  So nope, they aren't supporting it.  They are merely using it.  It's not the same thing.  Heck even if you DO pay for a license you aren't compensating the countless people unaffiliated with the build who's code it's built upon.  Open source stuff sounds very noble until you realize that in the end the big companies are STILL the only people that get compensated.  So I'll stick with commercial software... at least I know that the people who worked on it got a steady paycheck.

I do realize the irony, ragging on open source on a site that involves emulators, but there is a huge difference.  Most open-source software is a deal where the wrong people get compensated, which is wrong in my book, in regards to emulators NOBODY gets compensated, it's a hobby, and for that I'm all for open-source.   

Anyway....

Back on topic.  In theory dumping roms is rather easy, but in the case of mame roms, there's no point to it other than for fun.  All of the boards that are available for purchase and easy to dump are already in mame.  The ones that aren't in mame aren't in there because the board is rare/expensive, the board has some sort of hardware protection (suicide chips, ect), or the board has already been dumped but it has some sort of encryption. 

A better use of your time might be to make a console game dumper.  The same concepts would apply only there would be a much more limited amount of hardware configurations and there might actually be a use for it.  You could buy a connector off the old ebay and make a cartridge slot for the pc!  Homebrew developers would also find it useful as they could write custom games back to a cart.  I'm just saying.

[tobiasbp]

The best way to support THE CONCEPT of open source hardware and software is to release the source to any creations you make.

Which is my intention.

I'm sorry to be harsh but I always hear that line to which I reply:  "Did you purchase a license for the build of Linux you are running?" Naturally they so no, so I ask:  "Well did you submit some source code?" Again, I get a no.  So nope, they aren't supporting it.

Hmmm... I'm pretty sure developers of software would consider people using the software to be support. As would I which is why I was asking if anyone would be interested in an open source dumper. I reallize I did not specify the project as open source, but I feel it's fair to think that most people would assume an Arduino based project would be open sourced.

Open source stuff sounds very noble until you realize that in the end the big companies are STILL the only people that get compensated.

It would seem you are only concerned with the monetary aspect of open source. I like the fact that I can adapt the existing source code to fit my purpose. Also, there are a lot independent consultants (like me) making a living supporting/developing open source for companies.

So I'll stick with commercial software... at least I know that the people who worked on it got a steady paycheck.

Fine, if you are only consuming. If you are a creater/tinkerer, you would appreciate the source code and the freedom (As in speech, not beer).

Anyway....

Yes... Anyway 

Back on topic.  In theory dumping roms is rather easy, but in the case of mame roms, there's no point to it other than for fun.

As I have explained a few times in this thread: My main motivation is self education (fun).

Hard pressed for reasons for this project to exist, I have come up with these:

• There will be an open software/hardware alternative to arcade dumping.
• This will be a USB only dumper. All new computers will work with it (As opposed to dumpers using parallel ports). (Maybe a USB only dumper exists?)
• People involved in the project would learn stuff.
• There will be an easy to build arcade related electronics project for people to take on (Fun for the whole family).
• Could envolve in to a ROM programmer.
• Someone would have their first experience with open source and cross over from the dark side. This would increase the drive towards computing nirvana 

A better use of your time might be to make a console game dumper.  The same concepts would apply only there would be a much more limited amount of hardware configurations and there might actually be a use for it.  You could buy a connector off the old ebay and make a cartridge slot for the pc!  Homebrew developers would also find it useful as they could write custom games back to a cart.  I'm just saying.

That would be great! Someone could expand the allready existing open sourced arcade game dumper fro this purpose. Open source is fantastic! 

[lilshawn]

• There will be an open software/hardware alternative to arcade dumping.

but if 99% of arcade roms are already dumped (somewhere over 20,000 roms), where is the "market"? if it hasn't been dumped it's likely because of ecryption or rarity. if you would like to do it again, fine.

• This will be a USB only dumper. All new computers will work with it (As opposed to dumpers using parallel ports). (Maybe a USB only dumper exists?)

a 2.85214541 second ebay search for "EEPROM programmer" yeilds 100's of units. the one l linked was parallel simply because it's easy and cheap to interface to (thus sold cheap). most units in the $50 and up range are USB. anything i have mentioned is by no means all encompassing of the hardware available. hell you can get programmers in parallel, serial, usb, firewire, etc.

• People involved in the project would learn stuff.

fair enough.

• There will be an easy to build arcade related electronics project for people to take on (Fun for the whole family).

fair enough

• Could envolve in to a ROM programmer.

ok.

• Someone would have their first experience with open source and cross over from the dark side. This would increase the drive towards computing nirvana 

maybe you should watch "Revolution OS" I think your philosophy regarding "open source" is slightly skewed. It's not enough to go around yelling "OPEN SOURCE OPEN SOURCE FREEDOM FROM CORPORATE GREED" you are failing to see the big picture... ive tried to push you in the right direction to get you to make your own conclusion, but it seems like you have a case of tunnel vision here.

it'a already been stated that hardware is available for cheaper than anything you have planned on making. you yourself said that these programmers don't support linux bla bla bla...so you know what? you want to learn? buy a cheap programmer off ebay, and make linux program for it. THAT is the philosophy of open source. take a program and make it work for your need. THAT is what open source is all about. spouting "open source" willy nilly just makes you sound like an "Apple fanboy". reverse engineer the hardware. find out how it works. write software for it. That's learning.

now, if you want to go ahead and make a reader and some software to read some dumps, that's cool.

[tobiasbp]

but if 99% of arcade roms are already dumped (somewhere over 20,000 roms), where is the "market"? if it hasn't been dumped it's likely because of ecryption or rarity.

Maybe you would like to dump roms for your own board because you want to make sure they are OK when troubleshooting? Maybe you are a tinkerer who likes the idea of building a simple ROM dumper?

• Someone would have their first experience with open source and cross over from the dark side. This would increase the drive towards computing nirvana 

maybe you should watch "Revolution OS" I think your philosophy regarding "open source" is slightly skewed. It's not enough to go around yelling "OPEN SOURCE OPEN SOURCE FREEDOM FROM CORPORATE GREED" you are failing to see the big picture... ive tried to push you in the right direction to get you to make your own conclusion, but it seems like you have a case of tunnel vision here.

I did put a smiley in the end you know? I was having fun with the perceived open source stereotype. Oh, and I'm a big supporter of corporate greed. I don't remember having said anything on that subject? Funny how people are often seen as "evil communists" if they are in favour of sharing source code 

Buy a cheap programmer off ebay, and make linux program for it.

I have been wanting to do something like that since the Kinect was reverse engineered as described in this tutorial http://learn.adafruit.com/hacking-the-kinect. Reading it, it seems I would need a USD 400+ USB sniffer to take on something like that.

If anyone would be interested in reverse engeneering one of the existing programmers/dumpers with me, I'd be VERY interested!

now, if you want to go ahead and make a reader and some software to read some dumps, that's cool.

I think I will. There are some nice open source projects for the Arduino for me to build on. Thank you for your list of ROM chips. Appreciated.