gpu updgrade no more s-video

[parasol]

I need to upgrade my gpu (4770). Browsing the web it seems ati dropped out s-video from further series. I'm long time frontend user and thus my collection is now well configured and therefore I'm thinking of getting a card with dvi output and using it with a vga adapter and a pc - tv converter.

http://www.manhattan-products.com/en-US/products/5914-pc-tv-converter

I couldn't find much usefull information about those converters related to gaming or emulation, except that some products may produce video lag. That sure destroys the whole experience. Maybe more expensive products will not produce video/ input lag?


regards

[rCadeGaming]

That will certainly cause lag, and I couldn't agree more about that it destroys the gaming experience.

The problem with those kind of "converters" is that they digitally scale everything to 480i, so they can output nice NTSC S-Video or composite picture.  This seriously degrades picture quality, and causes the lag.

If you interested in putting some work in to get proper arcade quality picture on your tv without any lag, check out the second link in my signature.

[adder]

yup parasol you are correct, i have tried about 4-5 different brands of these video converter devices, some of which were cheap chinese brands which looked like the device in your link, and i tried expensive ones also like this:

however, none of the devices i tried can properly stay in sync/stay smooth when you are running eg. a mame game at 60hz.  every now and then, you instead get a 'jerk', some missed frames... a hiccup. experimenting with triple buffer, vsync, or anything else, did not help. this was unacceptable for me so i have given up trying to find a video converter device which can cope with smooth 60hz on-the-fly. however if anyone knows of a cheap device which CAN keep up/stay smooth, let us all know! i imagine you will need some kind of specific device actually aimed at arcade fans, eg:

http://www.arcadeforge.de/product_info.php?products_id=57

however there will still be some setting up to do in windows in order to use that device. unfortunately its not a simple a case of 'plug in and go' ... however i think it does take 'some' of the pain away

[rCadeGaming]

What I was referring to, and I think what Parasol was referring to, is input lag.  Meaning a time delay in the video cause by the converter.

Sounds like you're talking about refresh tearing.  Makes sense, and is just another good reason to stay from these things.

[adder]

thats right, refresh tearing
actually mind you, if im fair, for my tests i was using a laptop with onboard intel gma video, which truly is the worst video setup possible (it allows for NO tweaking of any kind. if you try to install powerstrip on it, you get a message saying "omg, are you joking?" and the installer nukes itself ...lol ok i made that up, but it might as well do that...)
so anyway there is a slight chance that the intel gma couldnt cope, but that said i didnt have any problems with refresh tearing (when using intel gma) using a regular pc monitor, or using the svideo-out port to a tv, so it probably WAS the video converter boxes... (but intel gma still sucks!)

[rCadeGaming]

Sorry, thought that you'd confused refresh tearing with input lag.  You didn't, I just read it wrong.

But yeah, these things all suck.  The nature of "plug and play" involves too many compromises.  You need to take control of what the PC is actually outputting, and set it up for proper 240p there, not try to rely on something external to "make it easy" and convert crappilly to 480i.

[adder]

you know what im still amazed about that thing you said in another thread before about regular tv's actually being able to handle funny refresh rates instead of just 50hz pal or 60hz ntsc (i never thought that possible)
i know something like a hantarex mtc9000 arcade monitor has a range of about 45hz to 65hz and everything inbetween.. if a regular tv can really cope with a big range also, its a shame someone like andy warne at ultimarc cant make some kind of new devastating video converter to send any vga signal from a pc to a regular tv, and not choke if it is not exactly 50hz or 60hz.
(im not technical by the way so no idea if this is even possible lol) if it was possible though, it means everyone could stop worrying about owning a real arcade monitor and we can instead all use all of the millions of free crt tv's in the world

[rCadeGaming]

its a shame someone like andy warne at ultimarc cant make some kind of new devastating video converter to send any vga signal from a pc to a regular tv, and not choke if it is not exactly 50hz or 60hz.

Here's the thing, if your resolution isn't already the correct native resolution of the game you're playing when it comes out of the computer, there's nothing that an external "converter" can do to fix it.  Different arcade games run at all different resolutions.  The converter would have to know what game you're playing, what resolution it's supposed to run in, and be capable of converting to and outputting all kinds of different resolutions.  Even if something was made that could do this, it would take time to perform the conversion, so it would lag a few frames.

The only thing to do is configure the PC itself to output the proper resolutions in the first place, and get them into the TV, which is totally doable.

everyone could stop worrying about owning a real arcade monitor and we can instead all use all of the millions of free crt tv's in the world

This already totally possible, you just have to put in the work.  Read through the second in my signature.

[parasol]

Thx for the nice input guys. I'm going to stay away from those pc-tv converters but instead I'll check out the umsa device.

And, to make things clear. My setup just has to be able to output 60hz for ntsc
and mame (As you know most games sync at around 60hz in mame) and PAL for european consolegames and  computers. Every emulation software on my computer outputs a 640x480 resolution. Its great to achieve pixelperfect emulation,  but using normal resolution saves me a lot of fiddling and makes the system more portable I think.
With s-video output from the gpu its easy to swtich from ntsc to pal  in the driver control. (At least with ATI drivers)

Does the umsa device allow switching to pal mode? I think I do have to generate a suitable modeline to get pal over vga? (Correct me if I'm worng)

Maybe I should also consider building a second pc (with s-vdieo output) dedicated to emulation (and video watching) only.

[adder]

im not an expert with modelines but i imagine you just need to set up a couple of modelines, one which is 640x480 ntsc and the other would be 640x480 pal

you could then set up (eg. using powerstrip) so that you can easily switch between these 2 modelines using eg. the function keys on your keyboard eg. press F8 for ntsc or F9 for pal .. or perhaps assign this to a button or buttons on your arcade cabinet control panel etc

note: if you use mameuifx instead of regular mame it allows you to run mame games which are not 60hz (eg. kung fu master/r-type at 55hz) at 60hz, perfectly smooth including no sound problems (by using the soundsync feature).

latest mameuifx version (currently 0.147u3) is in the thread below, plus info about using soundsync:

http://www.phpbbserver.com/mameuifx/viewtopic.php?mforum=mameuifx&t=425&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&mforum=mameuifx

ps. the latest versions of mameuifx are great as they load VERY fast