DMCA stuff from yesterday

[SirPoonga]

http://www.copyright.gov/1201/

Now mame can legally circumvent copyright protection on some games, woohoo!

[tmasman]

"Computer programs and video games distributed in formats that have become obsolete and which require the original media or hardware as a condition of access. A format shall be considered obsolete if the machine or system necessary to render perceptible a work stored in that format is no longer manufactured or is no longer reasonably available in the commercial marketplace."

That's kinda cool...
Someone with a little common sence got ahold of the lawmakers...
Not that this stopped any of them before, but it's nice to see.

[Jakobud]

I'm a little confused though as to what this means.  Is it saying that playing roms with Mame is not illegal as long as the real game boards are "no longer reasonably available" ?  

What is considered to be "reasonably available" ?

[SirPoonga]

No, it's saying getting around protection schemes is ok.  IE breaking the encryption in encrypted roms.

You still can't have the roms legally.  But if you have some legally and have no means to play it because the original hardware is obsolete and hard to find you may break and copyright protection scheme on the rom.

[paigeoliver]

I'm a little confused though as to what this means.  Is it saying that playing roms with Mame is not illegal as long as the real game boards are "no longer reasonably available" ?  

What is considered to be "reasonably available" ?

Pretty much none of it is "reasonably available" anymore. The only hardware platform I would still classify as "reasonably available" is the Ms. Pac-Man hardware. Due only to huge production.

[Spaced Invader]

Jamma is an interface not a platform...right???  

[tmasman]

Jamma is an interface not a platform...right???  

That was out of left field...

But yes. JAMMA is just the standard wiring & harness in a cabinet.
It's kind of like a universal interface for game boards...
Most game boards that were built after the mid 80s were built to the JAMMA standard so that you could easily swap them out in your cabinet(s).

[Spaced Invader]

Jamma is an interface not a platform...right???  

That was out of left field...

Well, if you consider Jamma the "original media or hardware" (or platform) it has a different implication than if it were simply an interface. I was just curious...

I don't catch well enough for left feild.  

[Magnet_Eye]

does this mean that NES roms are legal since you cannot go buy the system anynore? or no?

It says "Programs or Video Games" which is kind of vague. Programs is straight forward. Like I can download and share old C64 programs. But what do they mean by "video games?" Video games software that merely requires the machine to play, like a 5.25 floppy disk with commando on it that require a commodore c64 machine or do rom images fall under this "video game" category?

[SirPoonga]

does this mean that NES roms are legal since you cannot go buy the system anynore? or no?

No, that's not what it is saying.  It is saying you can get around copyright protection schemes (IE encryption, etc...) on stuff like that.  You still have to own the rom/software legally.

[SirPoonga]

The big question on /. is cna we use windows 95 if we lost the key.  It isn't supported or widely available anymore.  So I should be able to get a key of the internet to use it if I own it legally.  Which is a catch 22 in the M$ world as the key is proof that you own it.

[paigeoliver]

Jamma is an interface not a platform...right???  

That was out of left field...

Well, if you consider Jamma the "original media or hardware" (or platform) it has a different implication than if it were simply an interface. I was just curious...

I don't catch well enough for left feild.  

Jamma is an a "platform" or "hardware" about as much as the power socket on your wall is.

[Reg]

 

Hi,

If you read the GamePro article, you will see that  "The exemption applies to games that require the original hardware as a condition of access, and if the game is ?no longer manufactured or reasonably available in the commercial marketplace.? This means that old, unsupported PC, console and arcade games will now be legal to own." It does not mention anything about companies losing their copyrights.

And anyway copyright is not indefinate. It does run out UNLESS renewed, and companies are hardly going to renew copyright on outdated stuff, or stuff that no longer turns a profit.

Reg

http://www.gamepro.com/gamepro/domestic/games/news/31559.shtml

[Reg]

more info about this news from another user.

The Loafer  
One bad muthaloaf!!!
Supporting Member  

 

Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Embrun, Ont, Canada
Posts: 1177

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From the gamepro article:

The only muddy side is if publishers consider their old games to be ?reasonably available? and plan to release classic games as bundles or bonuses, then the copyright protection still stands.

The above is crap! That sentence indicates that those games are free to own, unless the publisher says "since we are going to release a compilation, this doesn't apply to us". It's VERY misleading, and the subject header AND Kinsey's reply seemed to me to indicate a belief that hosting roms are ok. Since it's incorrect, and we staff have to deal with the posting of rom links, I felt it was wise to pop in and try to clarify the gamepro take on this, and to pop in with the proper link to the gov release.

This means that old, unsupported PC, console and arcade games will now be legal to own."

It doesn't matter if they are not supported! Nintendo doesn't support the NES, but they have still kept full copyrights. The article may not say "copyrights don't matter", but read their sentence again, and you can see what they are assuming, or at the very least, what I feel their poorly written text leads others to assume.

...copyright is not indefinate. It does run out UNLESS renewed...

You are absolutely correct. I did not think my text indicated copyright is permanent. As I stated, if a company goes bye-bye, and the games aren't picked up by someone else, they're ok.

And why do you ALWAYS have to contrdict everything anyone says Loaf?

Maybe because I'm in a bad mood???  Seriously, I felt I was clarifying this issue before any misunderstandings caused us some problems. Advertizing rom linking is a SERIOUS issue and has caused many a site real problems. I would be irresponsible if I didn't cut in with my opinion on this subject.

BTW, just because 2 or 3 threads you've participated in have contained contrary opinions from myself does not mean I contradict "everything anyone says". I've always felt I'm a very even tempered, but yeah am also an opinionated fellow. Would you rather I shut up with my opinions, unless they only agree with the posters? I thought one of the major reasons for using forum posts was to discuss issues. Perhaps I'm wrong?

At any rate, please have a look at more of my posts before assuming that's all I do. You are allowed your opinion, but I certainly won't agree with it if that's ok.

I'm here to help Retro. My post in this thread was to clarify and thus help others understand this issue.

__________________
Any questions, feel free to ask

bye

Reg

[vitaflo]

http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=12937

BTW, the Gamepro article is wrong.

[RandyT]

The usual "I AM NOT A LAWYER" disclaimers apply.....

...but this has to be the most irresponsible article I have seen published by a supposed respectable site.

My take on the exception is:

If you have 500 Atari Cartridges (which some of us do ) and you want to dump them so you can play those games on your PC via an emulator, then you now have the right to do so as the hardware required to make those works "perceivable" is obsolete.  But if you don't own the right to use those original works, barring any other "fair-use" provisions, you are still "naughty" in the eyes of the law.

Likewise, I'd expect that if you own 50 original board sets from Arcade machines long dead, you would also have the right to dump, decrypt or extract the code from those boards by whatever means necessary.

All of this is a good thing, because it recognizes a consumers right to continue to enjoy a product they paid for, regardless of the viability or availability of the hardware it was designed to run on.  But it doesn't do a darn thing to make possession of ROMS that you have no right to possess a lawful act, as the article implies (or maybe even directly states!)

And ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS check with certified legal counsel on matters like these if it is important to you, and absolutely NEVER take some schmuck from the Internet's word.  Remember, when you find yourself with a real problem because of something one these morons write, it won't affect them one little bit.  

RandyT


*EDIT*

Hehe...I just re-read what I wrote and I think I need to clarify something....I wasn't referring to anyone here as a "moron".  I am talking about the writers of the articles that people expect will be telling them the truth about a situation, not the people who discuss what those irresponsible people write in order to try to make sense out of it .

Sorry if anyone took that the wrong way.

[EASports]

In case anyone needs another opinion...
The exemption doesn't have any impact on the actual copyright of a game, only how you can access it. Read over and over "to use works in lawful, noninfringing ways".

BTW, did anyone else catch this? In The Recommendation of the Register of Copyrights p.59

"The restiction to obsolete formats also helps ensure that the use of the exemption will likely be made only or at least largely by some librariesand archives, since consumers are less likely than libraries and archives to have an interest in using and copying out-of-date software and video games."

Not that it makes any difference, I just found it interesting... I guess we can all be archives, then!