Author Topic: Keyboard Hack (Read 5620 times)

HaRuMaN · « **on:** October 22, 2003, 10:50:59 pm »

I am hacking a Hewlett Packard multimedia keyboard for an interface. Does anyone know of a site where I can find the keyboard matrix for this? (I'm lazy and don't feel like mapping it out.)

Thanx...

hooded_paladin · « **Reply #1 on:** October 22, 2003, 10:59:28 pm »

map it out yourself. Most people here have transitioned to using keyboard interfaces and probably don't have the info. Not on a specific keyboard, at least. There are so many different keyboards and so few people that actually kept the matrix info that you are unlikely to get this from anyone.

And, since you say it is a multimedia keyboard, is it USB? The vast majority of USB keyboards have a 6 pressed key limit, no matter what.

HaRuMaN · « **Reply #2 on:** October 22, 2003, 11:16:07 pm »

No, its a PS2 keyboard... and I kinda figured I would have to map it myself. I was hoping there might be someone out there who already did this particular keyboard. If not, I guess me and my multimeter are going to have to get reacquainted.

Apollo · « **Reply #3 on:** October 23, 2003, 01:13:48 am »

He he, you're lazy and you're doing a keyboard hack, lol that cracks me up.
I'm interested, why are you doing a keyboard hack?

HaRuMaN · « **Reply #4 on:** October 23, 2003, 07:47:58 am »

Well, I do like a challenge. It would just be too easy to buy a keyboard encoder and wire it all up. Plus I'm a poor college kid, and I have like 4 keyboards laying around.

This is my first MAME-related project, eventually I am going to build a cabinet to go with controller as well.

JustMichael · « **Reply #5 on:** October 23, 2003, 01:36:42 pm »

I would recommend doing the matrix yourself. I have opened a couple keyboards from the same manufacturer (same model number even) and the matrix was different for each (slightly different pcb's were inside).

Apollo · « **Reply #6 on:** October 23, 2003, 03:56:23 pm »

Dude a Keywhiz eco is like $25 or something.

SirPeale · « **Reply #7 on:** October 23, 2003, 07:36:07 pm »

Quote from: Apollo on October 23, 2003, 03:56:23 pm

Dude a Keywhiz eco is like $25 or something.

Easy to say IF you have the money. A poor college student, or perhaps someone like myself (two kids, one person working and a lot of debt) it's not an easy option. Tempting, yes, but since he's willing to put forth the work...

Apollo · « **Reply #8 on:** October 23, 2003, 07:43:24 pm »

Yeah fair enough, good luck.

IceCold · « **Reply #9 on:** October 23, 2003, 08:39:50 pm »

Quote from: Peale on October 23, 2003, 07:36:07 pm

Quote from: Apollo on October 23, 2003, 03:56:23 pm
Dude a Keywhiz eco is like $25 or something.

Easy to say IF you have the money. A poor college student, or perhaps someone like myself (two kids, one person working and a lot of debt) it's not an easy option. Tempting, yes, but since he's willing to put forth the work...

I certainly agree! For somebody like me(I'm 14, no places will hire a 14 year old) every $25 counts!

HaRuMaN · « **Reply #10 on:** October 23, 2003, 08:51:58 pm »

Yeah every penny does count...

I am accepting donations.

neuromancer · « **Reply #11 on:** October 27, 2003, 01:39:43 pm »

If you can scrounge up an IBM AT or PS2 style keyboard (the kind that clicks so loud you can hear it next door), I can give you the matrix for that. I've got examples of that keyboard that are almost a decade apart, and they all work the same.

There are several other keyboards that you can get the matrix from on mameworld.net in the emuAdvice section.

But the last time I looked, HP wasn't one of them.

If you use the Ctrl keys (hard not to) then don't use the Esc. key or the space bar anywhere, due to windows conflicts.

Bob

HaRuMaN · « **Reply #12 on:** October 27, 2003, 08:08:24 pm »

I'll see if I can find one of those... I've been having some luck lately at a local thrift store getting used keyboards and joysticks for next to nothing.

freppa · « **Reply #13 on:** October 28, 2003, 11:25:58 am »

Neuromancer, What kind of windows conflicts will you run into if you use CTRL, Space and Esc

?

/Freppa

tmasman · « **Reply #14 on:** October 28, 2003, 11:30:35 am »

Quote from: freppa on October 28, 2003, 11:25:58 am

Neuromancer, What kind of windows conflicts will you run into if you use CTRL, Space and Esc ?
/Freppa

I'm not sure about conflicts involving the space bar, but Ctrl+Esc = Windows key...
It brings up the start menu...

neuromancer · « **Reply #15 on:** October 28, 2003, 12:11:21 pm »

Sorry, it's been a while! It's actually <Alt>+<space bar>; it takes a full screen graphics mode and windows it.

Since the ctrl keys and the alt keys are on their own columns (or rows, depending on the way you draw it) of the matrix, it's best to just not use the esc key and the spacebar for anything.

It means you end up mapping a bunch of goofy keys like "sys req" and F8 and keypad "."...

Like everyone says, the encoders are a lot easier, but keyboard hacks are cheap, and given the choice between spending my $30 on a keyboard encoder vs. a bottle of single malt, at the "expense" of an evening's worth of piddling with old computer parts, I'll take the Scotch every time. Which is why I have fewer brain cells and no encoder ;-/>

My newest hack is actually a gamepad hack. It's based on a cheap Saitek pad that includes a micro analog stick, which is going to be really cool on my sub-minature coctail cabinet.

Bob

xar256 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 28, 2003, 01:46:24 pm »

>>>snip<<<
Sorry, it's been a while! It's actually <Alt>+<space bar>; it takes a full screen graphics mode and windows it.
>>>snip<<<

Correct me if I'm wrong but that would be Alt-Enter would it not?

Alt-space bar appears to open the top menu on an open window.
Either one will probably have annoying effects in the middle of a game though.

Xar256

SirPoonga · « **Reply #17 on:** October 28, 2003, 02:06:29 pm »

Quote from: Apollo on October 23, 2003, 03:56:23 pm

Dude a Keywhiz eco is like $25 or something.

Better yet if you are on a budget goto your local computer store, goto the clearence rack and pick up a couple of $5 gamepads. No ghosting issues then.

HaRuMaN · « **Reply #18 on:** October 28, 2003, 02:47:25 pm »

So would you recomend a gamepad hack over a keyboard hack? I have a couple of cheapo Saitek 8 button gamepads lying around...

neuromancer · « **Reply #19 on:** October 28, 2003, 03:11:56 pm »

Quote from: xar256 on October 28, 2003, 01:46:24 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong but that would be Alt-Enter would it not?

They both have the same effect if you have a full screen command prompt. So add three taboo keys then -- esc, space, enter. Do not use any of them in a keyboard hack.

Oh, and don't use caps lock or num lock! those will drive you nuts debugging.

Bob

neuromancer · « **Reply #20 on:** October 28, 2003, 03:19:31 pm »

Quote from: HarumaN on October 28, 2003, 02:47:25 pm

So would you recomend a gamepad hack over a keyboard hack? I have a couple of cheapo Saitek 8 button gamepads lying around...

Gamepad hacks take more time for me to do. It's easy to get a wire soldered on the wrong solder point. Maybe someone with better eyes would have less problems.

With a gamepad, you have the luxury of being able to add more at any time. With keyboards you don't need to worry about gamepad drivers. That could be an issue where, for instance, you want to run MAME on a machine that you don't want to install drivers onto.

Also, some games, especially older games that most of us probably don't play, allow you to customize the keyboard interface, but don't let us use gamepads at all.

To specifically answer your question -- it probably won't make any difference at all. If one of your permutations allows you to have a keyboard hooked up in addition to your controller, that's a good thing -- especially if you're not talking about a dedicated game machine.

Bob

HaRuMaN · « **Reply #21 on:** October 28, 2003, 09:40:25 pm »

Ok, I have one more question. I've looked over some example of keyboard hacks, and everyone seems to solder wires to existing solder points. This seems like a good idea. However, when I looked at the circuit board from my keyboard, its a bit different. My question is, can I solder to the black contacts that run along the top edge? Here is a picture to clarify (and show that I can't solder to existing solder points, because all the contacts run into the shiny black thing in the middle.)

HaRuMaN · « **Reply #22 on:** October 28, 2003, 09:42:23 pm »

Ok, the picture didn't go through, let me try that again.

Edgedamage · « **Reply #23 on:** October 28, 2003, 09:45:13 pm »

Try light sanding the black contacts with very fine sandpaper the copper underneath should show. Then you can solder.

Spaced Invader · « **Reply #24 on:** October 28, 2003, 10:27:06 pm »

Quote from: HarumaN on October 28, 2003, 02:47:25 pm

So would you recomend a gamepad hack over a keyboard hack? I have a couple of cheapo Saitek 8 button gamepads lying around...

Personally, I would go with a gamepad...no mapping, no ghosting, very straight forward...and you CAN issue keyboard commands (with joytokey--it's freeware) with all those old keyboard only games.

eightbit · « **Reply #25 on:** October 28, 2003, 10:31:33 pm »

Quote from: neuromancer on October 28, 2003, 03:19:31 pm

Gamepad hacks take more time for me to do. It's easy to get a wire soldered on the wrong solder point. Maybe someone with better eyes would have less problems.

Many gamepads have nice big pads to solder to. The sidewinder gameport pad has nice test traces with holes in them that are grouped together and are nicely labeled. Simply stick your wire through the game pad and solder it. The sidewinder also uses a common ground so theres less soldering.

Last time I bought a couple of these they were $3 each.

neuromancer · « **Reply #26 on:** October 29, 2003, 09:51:23 am »

I've never soldered to black contacts, but they don't look promising :-(

Is there any way to solder to whatever socket the PCB plugs into?

Bob

SirPeale · « **Reply #27 on:** October 29, 2003, 12:04:11 pm »

Quote from: neuromancer on October 29, 2003, 09:51:23 am

I've never soldered to black contacts, but they don't look promising :-(

AFAIK, you can't. It's a conductive coating that works fine for the mylar overlay, but I don't believe you can solder to it, as solder sticks to metal.

Quote

Is there any way to solder to whatever socket the PCB plugs into?

Depends if it plugs into something. Some do, most that I have seen do not. There is a series of mylar sheets with the keyboard traces printed on them in conductive ink. It lays on top of the PCB and is held down somehow.

Edit: screwed up the quote tags.

neuromancer · « **Reply #28 on:** October 29, 2003, 01:21:20 pm »

There is a way to solder then, but it is tedious. You can strip the green protective layer from the leads, and solder to them with a low wattage iron.

I wouldn't bother with it myself, because I usually end up burning the leads off.

Either find an older "solder friendly" keyboard, or a usb gamepad.

Bob

HaRuMaN · « **Reply #29 on:** October 29, 2003, 09:20:02 pm »

Yeah, all things considered, I think I'll just do a gamepad hack for now. At least until I build my first cabinet, by then I should have enough green to spring for a real encoder.

Now I just have to wait on Happs controls to get my parts out to me... what to do... *twiddles thumbs*

eightbit · « **Reply #30 on:** October 29, 2003, 09:45:19 pm »

Quote from: HarumaN on October 29, 2003, 09:20:02 pm

Now I just have to wait on Happs controls to get my parts out to me... what to do... *twiddles thumbs*

Start soldering on that game pad, you don't need buttons to test it, just touch the wires together to test.

HaRuMaN · « **Reply #31 on:** October 31, 2003, 07:17:17 am »

Soldering is FUN!

HaRuMaN · « **Reply #32 on:** November 01, 2003, 11:41:18 pm »

Oh yeah! My parts from Happ Controls will be here wednesday! Whee!


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