Controls.dat released! XML modified! Login probs?

[SirPoonga]

READ THIS ENTIRE THREAD BEFORE YOU CHECK OUT THE PROJECT

Woohoo!  Controls.dat is available to the public.  
http://fe.donkeyfly.com/
Click on Controls.dat Project link in the menu of the forum.

The project is currently listing .74 roms.  .75 and .76 came by so fast that a catlist for them haven't been made.  The list of games doesn't get updated until a catlist comes out.


For those who want to contribute please read the FAQ first.  
You need to be a registered member of the forum in order to contribute (i.e. see the wizard to add games).

Some basics of what is available right now.  
Right now the wizards only show parent roms and no mahjong.  
I know there are clones that use different controls than the parent.  
If you know any let me know.
If there are any controls not in the list that you believe should
be on the list contact HowardC or me.
There is a Help link at the top left of every page of the wizard.
One important fact I need to get across is the Add/update wizard
has the checkbox "Uses service buttons for menu navigation?".  
This is for games/bios like playchois-10 and MegaTech that use
SERVICE1-SERVICE4 in the ctrlr files for menu navigation.

There will be games that the wizard simply can not handle.  
Try and fill it out as best as possible and make a note of what needs to be done in the references box on the last page of the wizard.


FE Devs
The FE Dev pack is almost complete.  There should be enough info to be useful.
If you have any questions about the information available to you ask me.
HowardC is working on a viewer that you can just add to your FE to use the ini file.
One note That I haven't put in the FEDEV FAQ yet.  For MiscDetails the ini file does not support return characters, the xml file does.
Also the basic idea on how to use the file is
Check to see if the game has a definition in the file.  
If not check if it's cloneof had a definition
If not check if it's romof has a definition


Thanks to
Frostilicious and MrArcade for the graphics they did for HowardC's viewer
uRebel and cdbrown for beta testing

[TheGatesofBill]

I'll look into adding it into the MAME menu itself, unless, of course, somone beats me to it.

[SirPoonga]

if you do add it in like history.dat.  Don't replace text in the input menu for the game.  That would be bad.  Especially for those of us who use ctrlr files and verify through that menu that the the ctrlr file worked

[TheGatesofBill]

Thats what I was planning on doing.

[SirPoonga]

Out of curiosity, ini or xml?

[TheGatesofBill]

Probably INI. XML and I don't get along well. Also it seems to fit in with the existing features of MAME.

[Jakobud]

Congrats on the release Poonga and HC (and everyone else who helped). I am eager to see this idea in action

[)p(]

Congrats on the release Poonga and HC (and everyone else who helped). I am eager to see this idea in action

from me too  

peter

[Lilwolf]

Am I missing something?  I'm getting a round robin links trying to look for a download...

Anyone have a direct link?

I'm REALLY curious what you guys came up with!


I'm also considering adding an option to my frontend that will create an image and a custom border for a game with the instructions.  Does the current viewer do this?  I thought it might be pretty useful for people...

Or maybe change my frontend when launching to a full screen of the controls and history...   And add a button that will alt-tab between the frontend and the game.... That might work also...   I'll have to see what info is useful.

I have to get away from java so I can do better middleware pieces...

[SirPoonga]

Gogo http://fe.donkeyfly.com
Click on Controls.dat Project at top
Click on Controls dat files (ini and xml format)
Choose the format you want

[JackTucky]

The XML file doesn't open for me in Firebird or IE.  Firebird says malformed XML, IE say s something about whitespace not allowed.

[SirPoonga]

I view my xml files in IE.  I have no problem.  The XML has even been verified with a couple of xml validators.

If anything, download the file (right-click Save as) and open in notepad.

You did bring up one good point.  Some XML parsers are much slower if there is whitespace.  I will look into making it without the whitespace.  However XML parsers should be able to handle returns (whitespace).  There is a multiline element ffor MiscDetails.  

[Howard_Casto]

Btw lilwolf.... the controls dat PROJECT is now open.  Don't be a leecher contribute.  

Only 160 games are currently supported.  We aren't going to enter all 4000+ games ourselves.  There are approx 3500 members on byoac.  All I'm asking is that everyone do 1 entry.  

[SirPoonga]

4% of those are mahjong, many are clones which don't need entry.  Shouldn't be too hard to get the project up to date

Actually, right now, only about 2000 games are listed in the add wizard.

[Lilwolf]

Well, added one...  I didn't know how far you guys took it...

I was pressing

Control dat Project

instead of

Controls.dat Project

You should really rename the forum name... It took about 5 looks before I noticed the other link at the top.

[Lilwolf]

Some questions...

1) Uses service buttons for menu navigation?  Does this mean does it use (in mame forinstance) F2 to get into the menu?  Or F2 again to move throught the menu (and another key to quit?).

2) Player mame uses for input?   Is that if you have different labels for each control?

Preferences for more then one label per button...  '/'?

Gaunt2 for instance.  Button 2 is BOTH Magic and Start.  I picked Magic first because of the control panel...  But I would have anyway...  But should there be a standard delimeter?

[Lilwolf]

Oh yeah... one more question

On games that have more then one physical button for the same action (one on left and one on right) should we enter them both?

Doesn't seem to be useful...  But its probably good to ask in case others could use it.

Or on NeoGeo games... they always have 4 buttons each... but many games don't use them...  

I'm assuming that it should be 4 buttons... but unused buttons should say Unused (or something similar)

[Lilwolf]

And another one more question...

If the control panel doesn't have a name (like willow) should we add our own?  I mean "fire" and "jump" would make sense... but it could also be "attack" and "jump"..... (and btw, I haven't done ANY research on willow other then popping up the control panel picture)

[SirPoonga]

Some questions...

1) Uses service buttons for menu navigation?  Does this mean does it use (in mame forinstance) F2 to get into the menu?  Or F2 again to move throught the menu (and another key to quit?).

No, F2 does not do navigation, it puts the game into service mode.  What I am talking about is the games that use SERVICE1-SERVICE4 in the ctrlr files, like playchoice-10 (and most bios games).  Remember playchoice-10 uses 4 buttons to navigate and select games.  These games need special attention as I need to manuall insert the service button labels into the databae.  There are far too few games/system that use menu buttons that it wasn't worth it to put it in the wizard.

2) Player mame uses for input?   Is that if you have different labels for each control?

No, that's if the input comes form another player.  As of .74 most of these issues have been fixed by HowardC.  However there are still a few games like hard driving that use 3 analog sources for controls per player.  So mame steals analog input from another player.  I believe the analog shift comes form player 3.  This, hopefully, will soon not be needed has with this project HowardC has been submitting modifications to control inputs to mame.  Most have been accepted.

Preferences for more then one label per button...  '/'?

Gaunt2 for instance.  Button 2 is BOTH Magic and Start.  I picked Magic first because of the control panel...  But I would have anyway...  But should there be a standard delimeter?

However it is labelled ont he control panel if you can figure that out, otherwise a / is fine.

On games that have more then one physical button for the same action (one on left and one on right) should we enter them both?

They are one button in mame.  You can in MiscDetails make a note of the control panel layout.

[SirPoonga]

Oh yeah, and don't worry about tilt.  I forgot I can get that info form listxml.  I'm working on taking it out of the wizard.

[SirPoonga]

We have plenty of research sources on the forum and in the faq.  From memory isn't a good resource

The best resources are the mame cpo pack and manuals.  Though manuals sometime call buttons differently than what they are labelled on the CP.  We prefer the CP label if possible.

HowardC wrote up in the FAQ the best way to find this info.  Use mame only as a guide as we all know it isn't highly accurate.  Look up the taito f3 games.  All games in mame that use the taito f3 driver have inputs defined like 4 player, 4 buttons each, and 2 spinners.  Well, a game like Twin Qix only uses a 4-way and a button.  That's all that is needed to be listed.  However ther are games that aren't like this that have a button defined in mame for no apparent reason.  For those games leave "??" as the label.

If you know how read mame source code you can figure alot of stuff out.  If not you can always ask me or HowardC what's the deal with a game.

[SirPoonga]

BTW, for those who want to know the process behind the system.

If you add or update a game it goes into a submission system where admins of the system (right now HowardC and me) can review the add/update then accept it.  It won't make it past us  We can fine tune the submission before accepting it too.  Once accepted it will show on the games supported.

also once a game is submitted it is taken off of the list of games to be added.  This way only one person at a time can work on a game.  I noticed Lilwolf, you must have submitted Gauntlet twice.  You added then updated.  Yes, both will be in your list of games to be accepted.  They have a timestamp so you can figure out which is the newest.  I will be displaying the time in the lists to make it more user friendly in the future.  I do this so I can see what the changes are.  To make sure people are thinking correctly when using the system

Right now the ini file and xml file are dynamically generated from the database.  Eventually I will go to a static system as once there is enough data that most likely php will timeout before the file is generated.  Plus then if it is static we can make news announcements of updates

[SirPoonga]

If anyone has any more questions please post on the fe.donkeyfly.com fourm.  Thanks.

[Howard_Casto]

Lilwolf I really apprecaite your entries, but I must say, your references are questionable.  Mame is not a valid reference.
Also memory is not a vaild reference.  However the cpo packs the game's manual or the game's flyer are.  

The labels aren't just to fill out the functions it's to fill out the "official" names the buttons were given by the manufacturer.  

However they look farily accurate so I'll do a once over and clean them up.  This time.  


*edit*

Opps didn't see sirps comments above hate to rat on ya twice.    It is very important though, so I'll keep this up anyway for everyone's reference.  

Btw about games with multiple functions.  Go by what the Cpo image says.  Generally it only has one function listed.  Additional functions or info about button presses should be put in the misc details.  

HOWEVER  there are a few games in which the button has multiple uses and they are listed on the cpo on multiple lines.  For those I use a "/" exactly as you have it. As the Ini's can't handle multiple lines, it just makes it easier to read.  


In conclusion, don't try to submit a game until your read the faq I have posted.  If you are confused read the faq again, heck three times if you have to.  I would rather get 30 emails with questions about submissions than 30 wrong submissions because people didn't ask enough questions.  Both sirp and myself are very dedicatd to this project and we are here to help you regardless of how "dumb" a person might think the question is.  

[SirPoonga]

Also there is a Help link on the top right of each page of the wizard which will give you more info on that page.

[Lilwolf]

I actually filled it in as I was downloading the controlpanel screens and double checked them afterwards.  Especially the gauntlet 1 (I had it open when doing gauntlet 2)

Sorry about that... And I edited the gaunlet 1 right afterwards... but didn't update the references.

[SirPoonga]

No prob.  

[SirPoonga]

The XML file doesn't open for me in Firebird or IE.  Firebird says malformed XML, IE say s something about whitespace not allowed.

I found out the issue.  Stupid special characters.  Some games use & or ' in their title causing issues.  That has been taken care of.  FE Devs should take note.

[SirPoonga]

If you have login probs PM me here.

[papaschtroumpf]

So, any front-end using this yet?

Minwah, I want a picture of my control panel in mamewah with the buttons getting auto-labelled as I scroll through the games. Please?  

[papaschtroumpf]

I'm actually thinking about doing something like that.
One could create a script that would generate a picture automatically by combining predrawn elements (like a picture of my CP) and info from controls.dat.
The picture could then be saved with the same name as the rom, and that directory be added to the list of artwork in mamewah.

[Minwah]

So, any front-end using this yet?

Minwah, I want a picture of my control panel in mamewah with the buttons getting auto-labelled as I scroll through the games. Please?  

I believe Howard has been working on a viewer which if I understand correctly is a program which can be launched and will show the correct controls using nice graphics made by Frosty.  So I guess this viewer could be launched before running a game, or at the touch of a key.

I'll wait to see it before I try anything myself

[SirPoonga]

Yeah, you should see the viewer soon.
He says he got it working wih the ctrlr files.  I will be getting a beta soon.
I believe you can move elements around on screen too, not sure on that one.
Here's a very early pic HC sent to me.

[papaschtroumpf]

Yep, that's about what I was thinking about except I was going to pre-compute the images so that they can be dispalyed in mamewah (maybe this program will allow you to batch generate and save the pictures too?).
Maybe it'd be OK to have a "preview" of the controls after the game is selected and before the game starts, I'm not sure I like the extra step but though.
I want the picture to look like my control panel, so the program needs to allow you to move things around, change colors, etc... I was also wanting to "gray out" unused controls...

[papaschtroumpf]

Also, if Howard's app doesn't end up doing exactly what I want and I still decide to hack my own, where can I get the renders of the controls? Those buttons look slick!

[Frostillicus]

I *think* the end result will eventually feature a way for you to create your own control panel onscreen and it will map the correct controls to it.  Could be wrong - *shrug*

Pretty cool though

[Minwah]

Yeah, you should see the viewer soon.
He says he got it working wih the ctrlr files.  I will be getting a beta soon.
I believe you can move elements around on screen too, not sure on that one.
Here's a very early pic HC sent to me.

Looks awesome

Do you know if it will be able to handle multiple control panels (ie in case you use swappable panels, it displays the most suitable panel)?  I suspect (hope!) it will, but just wondering...

[SirPoonga]

Hc has some plans.  The first version may be rather "simple".  I'm he would look into those type of features as multiple control panels.  The hard part about that is knowing which panel to show if some panels have duplicates.  Like my swappable panels will all have at least a 4-way joystick and 3 buttons on it just to navigate around FEs.

I say "simple" because getting hte info form ctrlr files AND controls.dat to work together the way he wants is not a simple task.

I believe he is going to make the viewer skinnable like dragon king is.  So you could use your own control panel pics, etc....

Again, the first version may be "simple" just for the fact we have demand from people to have something, even if it is just as simple as the pic above.

Maybe he will see this thread and add on what his plans actually are.  I'm not sure.  We've talked about several features like if you have a scan of the actual labled for games that used pics for labels (like ikari warriors) that those would show up.  But that would be something added much later on.

[Jakobud]

slightly off topic, but regarding that example pic you posted Poonga I thought the buttons for Street Fighter II were labeled as:

Jab, Strong, Fierce, Short, Forward, Roundhouse

[papaschtroumpf]

and "Simultaneous" is misspelled