Painting disaster

[brewerdude]

Being fed up with trying to roll the paint on my cabinet, I decided to go with a sprayer.  I was going to go with a HPLV sprayer to go with my air compressor, but learned that's not possible with my tiny little 6lb pancake compressor.  I went all out and splurged on a Harbor Freight $20 electric sprayer.

I'm using Rustoleum semi-gloss - I knew I had to thin it and asked the guy at Lowe's - he recommended Penetrol instead of the Acetone that Rustoleum recommends.  I mixed it with 10% mixture (16oz of paint and 1.6 oz of thinner).

Being a newbie at this, I didn't realize the paint coming out in globs wasn't normal.  After painting one side I was dismayed to see tons of paint sagging down the side.  And because I'm an idiot I painted the other side too.  In effort rectify my stupid mistake, I took a roller to it to try to smooth it out.  Safe to say it's an ugly mess and I have lots of sanding in my future.   

At first I thought it was the stupid Harbor Freight sprayer, but when I ran thinner through it to clean it up, I noticed it came out in a very nice spray.  I obviously didn't thin it enough.

So... where did I go wrong?

Harbor Freight Sprayer?

Using Penetrol instead of Acetone?

Not thinning it enough?  That max Rustoleum recommended on the can is 15% - can I go more than that?

Any feedback is appreciated!

[kahlid74]

Honestly, I would point at the sprayer and at the paint.  I recently was in the same place but instead of harbor freight I chose a $70 dollar unit from Menards and I used a Semi-Gloss Internal Dutch boy paint.  I did two coats of primer with a roller (Primer is to thick for sprayers unless you've got an industrial Sprayer) and then two coats of my sprayer.  My paint turned out very well.

So I would look at thinning the paint more or maybe a different paint all together?  $20 for a sprayer seems super cheap.  I just don't know if I would trust that.

[drventure]

If it was coming out in gobs, I'd tend to think it wasn't thinned quite enough.

If you can, spray with the piece flat instead of upright, that will help A LOT with accidental drips, but the main thing is go with multiple thin coats instead of a few think coats. I've seen a lot of spray jobs that failed only because people got in a hurry and tried to put too much on at one time.

[brewerdude]

How about the thinner?  Was Penetrol a bad idea?

[drventure]

I've never used penetrol, so I couldn't say. Generally, if I need to thin typical paint, I use garden variety paint thinner, nothing special.

Professional auto finish guys talk about stuff that prevents fish eyes, but I've never run into problems. However, I generally shoot for semi gloss finishes, unless I'm doing specific types of furniture, and then I'll typically use wipe on poly, gloss or satin. I've also used lacquer, but not too often.

Don't spray clear coat on formica laminate, however 

Yuck. talk about a painting disaster. There's photos of that mess in my Buffet thread. You +do not+ want to go there 

[Woodshop Flunky]

I have a cheap HVLP rig that is... cheap.  I never like the finish, so I bought the Cricket:



http://www.amazon.com/Critter-Spray-Products-22032-Siphon/dp/B00006FRPJ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1350390050&sr=8-1&keywords=cricket+paint+sprayer

This has a small spray pattern, but the finish is MUCH nicer.  I've used it on several projects, and I always get consistent results.

[ChadTower]

The real mistake was heeding the advice of a Home Depot employee over that of the manufacturer.  Don't ever listen to HD employees.  I have made that mistake many times and I have been burned enough times that I won't even let them tell me where the bathroom is now.

[drventure]

The real mistake was heeding the advice of a Home Depot employee over that of the manufacturer.

 

Kind of like electronics advice from anyone working at BestBuy.

[yaksplat]

Don't ever listen to HD employees.

I got into an argument with one in electrical and he wouldn't shut up about how long he's been there and how experienced he was, so of course he had to be right.  I bring up Ohm's law and start rolling off a few equations prooving how incorrect he was and suddenly he was late for his lunch break.  Fun with the overconfident, under-intelligenced... 

[bleargh]

The real mistake was heeding the advice of a Home Depot employee over that of the manufacturer.  Don't ever listen to HD employees.

The paint department at the local HD here doesn't even know what "lacquer paint" was.  After having that discussion w/them, I quit buying paint there altogether.

[drventure]

The paint department at the local HD here doesn't even know what "lacquer paint" was.  After having that discussion w/them, I quit buying paint there altogether.

lacquer?

Is that what you get drunk with?

[Mysterioii]

The paint department at the local HD here doesn't even know what "lacquer paint" was.  After having that discussion w/them, I quit buying paint there altogether.

lacquer?

Is that what you get drunk with?

Porter in the front, lacquer in the rear?   

[bleargh]

The paint department at the local HD here doesn't even know what "lacquer paint" was.  After having that discussion w/them, I quit buying paint there altogether.

lacquer?

Is that what you get drunk with?

Porter in the front, lacquer in the rear?

Remind me not to ask either of you two about paint either...   

[brewerdude]

Don't ever listen to HD employees.

In defense of Home Depot, it was a Lowe's guy who gave me the bad advice.  I don't like shopping at Lowe's, unfortunately, it's closer to my house than HD.

Plus, I was the dummy who said "Hey, the Penetrol costs more, it must be better."

Doh!

Almost finished sanding off the mistake, and will try painting again tonight.   Wish me luck!

[brewerdude]

The disaster continues.   


I thinned it to almost 3 times as much as Rustoleum recommends on the can (15%).  It still came out in blobs.  Thankfully this time, I only painted about 1/2 of one side before I realized it was going to sag again.

Then there the moments where it spat out huge globs of paint.  I'm beginning to think it's the crappy sprayer.  Harbor Freight did say I could return it within 90 days.  Will they accept a tool with paint splattered all over it?  And is it even worth the $18 to drive all the way over there to return it.  Augh, lesson learned, stay way from Harbor Freight.

Just to make sure my expectations are set properly - should it come out in a fine mist?   What should I expect from a consistency point of view?

What should be my next move?  Wagner type sprayer?  My little pancake compressor can't handle an HPLV sprayer.  I don't want to shell out the bucks for a professional sprayer for this little project.

[Woodshop Flunky]

Just to make sure my expectations are set properly - should it come out in a fine mist?   What should I expect from a consistency point of view?

If this is what you have, then I don't think you could ever get fine mist.
http://www.harborfreight.com/electric-paint-spray-gun-47274.html

My father bought the Wagner and it's okay for exterior or interior painting, but not for furniture.  It still splatters.

[brewerdude]

If this is what you have, then I don't think you could ever get fine mist.

Yeah, that's her.  Beauty, ain't she? :-)

So is the HVLP sprayer my only option?

[ChadTower]

In defense of Home Depot, it was a Lowe's guy who gave me the bad advice.  I don't like shopping at Lowe's, unfortunately, it's closer to my house than HD.

How did I get Home Depot?  Bah.  Same applies to Lowes' employees, though.  The only real difference between the two places that I have ever seen is that Lowes' house brands seem to be a little better.

[compute]

lacquer?
Is that what you get drunk with?

Beer before lacquer and you'll be ... blacker?

[SavannahLion]

The real mistake was heeding the advice of a Home Depot employee over that of the manufacturer.  Don't ever listen to HD employees.  I have made that mistake many times and I have been burned enough times that I won't even let them tell me where the bathroom is now.

Take it from an ex-Home Depot employee who used to work two stores down from a Lowes. Don't ever heed any of their advice. Ever. Act like your life depends on it. The whole damn issue is complicated and ugly as hell so just don't bother. Buy your ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- and get out.

[leapinlew]

Small tip... paint some scrap material first.

[Woodshop Flunky]

So is the HVLP sprayer my only option?

A good HVLP sprayer is really nice, but is hard to justify on a hobby budget.  I still don't have a nice one.

Like I said earlier, I have a cheap Cricket spray gun that I run off my small pancake compressor.

I fill the mason jar about 2/3 full, then add water to fill up to the neck only (not to the top).  Then I put the lid on and shake to mix everything.

Small tip... paint some scrap material first.

Absolutely!  Especially when your first becoming familiar with a new gun.  Every time I start to paint, I take scrap from the shop and test my setup.

One thing I do before I put the paint in is run water first.  I can adjust the nozzle if it needs it to get a fine mist.  This gets me really close before I ever try the paint.

[kahlid74]

I used a Wagner recently on a project and it did not come out in blobs.  It came out in a fine mist and looks pretty good.  I chose a latex paint on top of an Oil based primer.  Worked fantastic.

[DNA Dan]

You should be able to make this work HVLP using a pancake compressor. I have done this and it's slow going, but doable. You should target several under coated layers anyway. Give it a quick mist, let it dry. (compressor recovers.) repeat. The only pain is keeping the paint on the tip from drying and clogging up when you go for another layer. You'll have to clear it first.

[LiquidFire]

The tip can be where all the technology lies. One chinese-made cheap sprayer may work fine, then the next one not. On better units you can just swap out the tip when one fails to provide results you want. You can tell you are in the range you should be when your sprayer comes with different size tips.

The tip is everything. Don't think a $20 sprayer is going to worry about that. Ceramic tips are on intermediate units while milled brass is all you have on low-end units.

I agree with others that you should never spray your project until you obtain the results you want with scrap of the same type.

For the record, cheap sprayers work really well for spraying bugs. Anything else you should invest in a name brand.

I prefer air-powered sprayers to anything airless. (I just like the fumes. )

And always follow the paint label's advice on formulation.

[nemesismachine]

This is why you ALWAYS shoot on a test panel before you shoot your final.  I would say either the paint is either A - not mixed well enough, or B - getting humidity introduced.  I have shot all kinds of projects with the Lowes Graco sprayer; from restorations of tractors, priming cars, redoing bathrooms, etc. with outstanding results.  Specifically the Graco 2900.  I shoot enamels, lacquers, oil based, you name it.  All have come out great if you take your time, and remember that several light coats will look better than heavy coats.  Do not rush painting, ever.

That being said, I would make sure all the parts of the gun are clean, and test with water on something, like the garage door.  Get the technique down, then clean the gun and let it dry, and follow the same technique with the paint.  Provided your paint is a similar consistency as the manufacturers recommendations, you should be fine. Start off the edge of the panel and continue spraying off the panel, to maintain consistent coverage. Dont rock your wrist, keep the gun parallel with the work. And for goodness' sake if it looks bad, STOP. Don't keep going.  Assess the issue, correct it, test it, and keep painting.

Don't let a couple runs put you off. I have a 2x4 with about a zillion coats of primer and paints I use for testing just to avoid issues.  Keep it up, you'll get it and you'll totally be proud of your final project  \m/

[jammin0]

You should be able to make this work HVLP using a pancake compressor. I have done this and it's slow going, but doable. You should target several under coated layers anyway. Give it a quick mist, let it dry. (compressor recovers.) repeat. The only pain is keeping the paint on the tip from drying and clogging up when you go for another layer. You'll have to clear it first.

I've used a harbor freight HVLP on my Porter Cable 6 pancake compressor and it works fine but like DNA Dan says it is really slow going.  Just set it at 90 PSI or whatever they recommend and then stop spraying everytime your compressor fires up.  You know it is at 90 or below when it turns on.  Mine sprays for 15 seconds or so and then I wait for 30.

[TopJimmyCooks]

I'll admit to being cheap. I buy Hf tools if they're not mission critical.  I build stuff out of the broken remains of other stuff.  That said, I only buy Lowes/HD paint in an emergency.  Go to Sherwin Williams or Ben moore, duron, or any real paint store, really.  Explain your project and needs.  Be frank about wanting to know what the budget options are.  They will resist selling you their less expensive product, you have to ask so they don't jack you for $40 a gallon.  Set up an account and you'll get about 10% right off the top at SW.  At the end of the day, you will get good advice generally on products, and what you go home with will be a far better product for a little bit more cost.  They keep the formulas and colors you buy on file so if you need more you're golden. 

** I do not work for SW.  I do enjoy the peace of mind of knowing if there's an issue, its not the paint.