Retro console gaming on less-than-popular consoles?

[shponglefan]

I love retro gaming.  I grew up during the 8-bit and 16-bit eras, but only ever really played the popular systems (NES, SNES, Genesis...).

Is it worth investigating the lesser known systems like the TG16/CD, Sega CD, etc?  Or are they best left to the dustbin of history?

[Howard_Casto]

Maybe?

Are you talking emulators or physical consoles and games?

I would definately try some of the games via emulator first because the sega cd, in particular, is an aquired taste with Sonic CD being the only game imho worth playing that isn't already available on a more superior console.  Actually you can download sonic cd via xbla or psn, so nevermind. 

TG16 doesn't have a ton of good games, but the Bonk games are pretty fun and the best Castlevania game ever made, Rhondo of Blood, was only released on the tgcd.  Of course the game was a japanese only release and there is an english patch, but that means you'll have to either play it on an emulator or burn the disc. 

The only other odd-ball systems of that era were the neo-geo, which is prohibatively expensive to get into (actually so is the tg16 to a degree) and those god-awful cdi systems. 


Long story short, as a whole they probabably aren't worth getting, but in terms of individual games, there are a few gems that might make it worth it, depending upon your personal taste.

[DaveMMR]

If you're only interested in the games and not so much the "collection" aspect, then you can do without hunting down a TG16 or Sega CD or Atari 5200 or etc. But if you're into the "whole package" of retro gaming, the original hardware offers up a lot more satisfaction. Case in point: I get bored playing a Colecovision game on an emulator but spend a bit more time with it using the actual hardware.

So, as Howard said, it's "maybe".

That being said, I wouldn't plunk down hard cash for the hardware. Spend enough time at garage sales, flea markets, pawn shops, swap meets, etc. and this stuff will fall into your lap. Half my console collection was stuff I just happened to get from friends or find dirt cheap.

[SithMaster]

Rondo of the Blood is on the castlevania collection for the psp though I think it was altered slightly beside being in english now.

Check out hardcoregaming101.  Covers lesser known games in addition to the more popular and usually gets me interested in something new.  They convinced me Operation Darkness is worth playing despite its horrible camera and brought to my attention Tengai Makyou: The Fourth Apocalypse.

[pinballjim]

I had damn near every single Sega CD and 32X game ever released in the US.  My mom dumped it all at a garage sale for $20. 

I ain't even mad.

 

[SavannahLion]

I'd have to echo the above sentiments.

I did try the TG16 family for a little bit and.... I found them meh. Maybe if I played the console more in my youth I might have that nostalgia and love many of the old TG16 owners had. Maybe then I can understand their superiority complex too.   I think I might still have the one I collected squirreled away somewhere. Not sure.

But I did love the SegaCD but the only games I really ever still play were those published by Working Designs. I suffered many of the showstopper bugs that essentially turned me off to most Sega CD games later on.

I would say check them out in the emulators, if they catch your interest, then get the originals. If not, leave them there.

[shponglefan]

Thanks for the replies.  Part of the reason I was tempted by these is I have a couple shops that have older TG-CD and Sega CD games (including the Lunar games which I loved on PSX but kind of want to try the originals).  I don't know if I'd bother to invest in the original hardware as, although I do appreciate being able to use original controllers with things.

Buuuut at the same time, I guess there is a reason the systems didn't catch on in the first place.

[ChadTower]

Yes, yes, and yes.  You can't really appreciate the popular systems until you have spent some time with the less popular systems.  And you may find you really like one or two of the less popular systems.  And skip emulation.  If you care enough to be asking this question you don't want to miss out on the experience of the real controller, real cartridge or CD, and real system.  It does make a major difference when you're experiencing a game as it was meant to be experienced versus loading it up on a PC with a generic controller.  Emulation isn't experiencing a retro game.  It is only experiencing the retro software.

I disagree on Howard's assessment of the TG16.  There are tons of good games for that system.  Especially if you get a TGCD with System 3 card or a TurboDuo.  Lots of great shooters, RPGs, and some nice hybrids like Vasteel.  The TG16 just has a unique vibe to it that shines in games like Keith Courage in Alpha Zones.

A modded Saturn is a great buy these days.  Top Saturn games are stupidly expensive right now but a burned CD doesn't feel all that much different than a real one.  Certainly not $300 for Panzer Dragoon Saga different.

I would also recommend getting a Virtual Boy.  Yeah, people are going to crap on it, but I think it's worth the experience.  The library is small, you can get the whole thing for a fairly reasonable price, and play through it all in a couple of months.  There is nothing like it.  Avoid the tripod and use the "lay on your back with the VB on your face" method and you'll be able to play it just fine.

The good thing about a lot of this stuff is that while it might cost you some dollars to get the real hardware you can always sell it when you're done. 

[pinballjim]

Man.. Willy Beamish on the Sega CD.  Another one of those <$5 when brand new purchases. 

I had already played through it on PC and thought the new content and voice work would make it fun.

Oh god was I wrong.  I didn't even make it through the opening sequence in the classroom.  Load times between sentences that have to be experienced to be believed.  That game should have never shipped like that.

[shponglefan]

I suppose the one advantage of emulation would be to rip CD games to play from the HD.  Once I discovered I could do that for PSX games, I never went back to my actual PSX anymore.  Load times be gone!

[Howard_Casto]

Emulation, for consoles at least is often better than the original console for reasons like that.  One of the reasons the psx was vastly inferior to the n64 imho, was the load times.  I can appreciate the games much more playing them on a pc though because those load times are gone.  There are certain systems where the emulation is just sketchy and not worth bothering with (the n64 comes to mind) but in general it just makes more sense to play the games on an emulator, unless you are into collecting for collecting's sake.  Just as an example I own every nintendo console there is, but with the exception of the n64 and occasionally the nes, I usually just play my games on my pc hooked up to the big screen.

I'm all for collecting and I do it myself, so don't misunderstand.  It's just when it comes to actually playing the games it's much more convenient to use an emulator.  Basically you should see what you like first and if you enjoy a system/game you should buy it!

Not sure what that generic controller comment was about either.  I would NEVER suggest you play a console with anything but the factory controller. (Or at least something really close.) That's why we have usb adaptors. 

[DaveMMR]

Man.. Willy Beamish on the Sega CD.  Another one of those <$5 when brand new purchases. 

I had that and played quite a bit of it. I spent, I would say, 80% of the game maneuvering those "3D spheres" to pass the time between loadings. I finally gave up because the time it took between making a wrong choice and getting the game over was irritatingly long.

 

Thanks for the replies.  Part of the reason I was tempted by these is I have a couple shops that have older TG-CD and Sega CD games (including the Lunar games which I loved on PSX but kind of want to try the originals).  I don't know if I'd bother to invest in the original hardware as, although I do appreciate being able to use original controllers with things.

Be careful. You start buying a couple of retro games here and there and, before you know it, you're at Ikea buying shelving and staking out garage sales.

But collecting for retro consoles is so much more than just playing the games. It's like a little miniature game museum in your own home. That's what drives a lot of collectors to purchase items everyone else pooh-poohed.

Emulation, for consoles at least is often better than the original console for reasons like that.  One of the reasons the psx was vastly inferior to the n64 imho, was the load times.  I can appreciate the games much more playing them on a pc though because those load times are gone.  There are certain systems where the emulation is just sketchy and not worth bothering with (the n64 comes to mind) but in general it just makes more sense to play the games on an emulator, unless you are into collecting for collecting's sake.  Just as an example I own every nintendo console there is, but with the exception of the n64 and occasionally the nes, I usually just play my games on my pc hooked up to the big screen.

I'm all for collecting and I do it myself, so don't misunderstand.  It's just when it comes to actually playing the games it's much more convenient to use an emulator.  Basically you should see what you like first and if you enjoy a system/game you should buy it!

I agree that emulation is much more convenient but I always felt it diminishes the overall appreciation of the game. When you score a cart at some thrift shop, you'll spend a little more time with it than if you're just picking a file off your hard drive. There's also this sense of accomplishment when you can take decades old cartridges and hardware, clean it up nicely, repair/replace a few parts and show off to all your friends how your console works like new without having to blow on the edge connector. Heck, I still get all giddy when my NES boots up on the first try.

I don't think there's anything wrong with emulation though. Some people just want to play the games and that's fine (it's not like the companies are getting money for your retro game purchases - save for Virtual Console, etc.)  But, personally, I've always felt that the nostalgia factor doesn't kick in unless you're wrestling with the real deal - quirks and all.

[destronger]

all of the following are tg16 or tgCD

ninja spirits was good console game that was ported to the tg16 from the arcade.

lets NOT forget blazing lazers (gunhed in japan) by far one of the best shmups ever... and i can't figure out why? but it's a good game none the less.

alien crush & devil's crush were good pinball games for the time.

bonk 1, 2, & 3 are fun. (tad slow but fun) there's a cd version of bonk 3 as well.

zonk, which is a shmup was interesting... cd version too.

dracula X rhondo of blood, mentioned above. there's a english translation out there if your playing through a emu.

surpisingly sf2 champnion ed. was ported to the tg16 and it wasn't actually that bad.

i had a tg16/cd & a turbo duo so i enjoyed this sytem. these were just naming a few more popular games on the system.

[Howard_Casto]

But, personally, I've always felt that the nostalgia factor doesn't kick in unless you're wrestling with the real deal - quirks and all.

I agree with everything you said, including this, but the thing is, you can't really get a dose of nostalgia on a system you never owned.  And you've got to decide if you are wanting to play fun games, watning to play nostalgic games or start a collection.  If you are just in it for the games then emulation is the way to go, at least initially. 

You are right btw, you do invest more time if you buy a cart at a flea market or something, but the reason isn't because the experience is any better but rather you are desperiately trying to justify the purchase.    Console emulation on the earlier consoles is pretty darn good, and unlike arcade games, anybody can hook up a usb gamepad and hook their tv up to the old pc and get an almost exact recreation.

Again, I do collect old hardware and software, but I do so mostly to own the physical object, not to play the games.  There are exceptions of course.... portables don't quite feel the same especially the virtual boy.  The vectrex is so unique that it can't really be replicated.  But your run of the mill gamepad consoles.... eh...

[DaveMMR]

You are right btw, you do invest more time if you buy a cart at a flea market or something, but the reason isn't because the experience is any better but rather you are desperiately trying to justify the purchase.    Console emulation on the earlier consoles is pretty darn good, and unlike arcade games, anybody can hook up a usb gamepad and hook their tv up to the old pc and get an almost exact recreation.

That is true. But only partially as I do have quite a few games 'donated' to me (or were a buck at a garage sale).  The other part is that I believe it is easier to concentrate on a game when you're not faced with a thousand choices. I had a dozen emulators with tons of games on both my old Xbox and my PSP and I never really played anything in-depth because I was constantly going through the list. Kind of like what people do with my arcade cab - they're constantly changing games instead of spending any significant time with any one game.

[pinballjim]

Man, Turbo Grafix was just a terrible system.  I had one friend completely in love with Military Commander and I can appreciate that turn based war games were a rarity on consoles.  The superiority complex people have about it has always boggled my mind and it's been prevalent since the late 90s.

Why, yes, you COULD spend mega-bucks on two controllers and an imported version of SF2 and have something 80% as good as the $50 version on SNES.  No thanks.

[Howard_Casto]

Yup... there's a reason I only mentioned two franchises.. they are the only ones worth mentioning. 

All those other games destronger mentioned were also released either on the genesis, the snes or the current consoles via marketplace and as you mentioned they were better ports and are much cheaper to get ahold of.

There is a reason the thing didn't sell well... it had graphics on par with MAYBE the genesis, it cost 400 bucks, the first versions only had a single controller port, so add another 20-50 bucks to play with a friend and like the genesis, the original gamepad had too few buttons, so to play any of the later games, be sure to hae another 100 bucks handy to get the rare 6 button controllers.  So that's what?  600-700 bucks originally to play games that would runn BETTER on the snes.  Oh but you've got wav audio so that totally makes it worth it. 

It still costs around 300-400 bucks to get a proper tg16 and the cd addon...you'll need more than that to play as well, which is why I suggested trying the games first.  I mean maybe to some that isn't a lot of cash to throw away on a novelty that will most likely end up as decoration on a shelf, but for me it's a bit on the pricy side.  Yeah you can srounge around and find one cheaper, sometimes MUCH cheaper, but do you want to play the thing or search for it for a year?

Dave:

Again you are correct  you'll spend less time on a single title when you have many to choose from.  My argument though is that you spend less time because the games aren't all that good.  There are very few games on any system that have a ton of replay value, even fewer if you've never played the system before.  So yeah you'll spend more time if you have physical games, but only because you have less games to choose from.... you'll still be suffering through a so-so game. 

[DaveMMR]

Man, Turbo Grafix was just a terrible system.  I had one friend completely in love with Military Commander and I can appreciate that turn based war games were a rarity on consoles.  The superiority complex people have about it has always boggled my mind and it's been prevalent since the late 90s.

Why, yes, you COULD spend mega-bucks on two controllers and an imported version of SF2 and have something 80% as good as the $50 version on SNES.  No thanks.

Have to agree. My friend gave me his TG16 console and a few games. The games (Bonk's Adventure, Keith Courage, Legendary Axe II) aren't terrible (well... Keith Courage is fairly lame actually) but it's just one big pain-in-the-ass of a console. Needing an adapter just for a second player or a basic A/V connection (well okay, early Genesis needed that too) for unexciting games puts this one on the back burner for me when out shopping.

I could understand the superiority complex though - it's justification for being part of that overlooked minority in that late 80's, early 90's console battle. There was always that one kid with the TG16 who tried to convert his Nintendo or Sega loyal friends by building it up as a high-class gaming machine. Because, otherwise, it was really difficult to talk about games barely anyone else played and rarely cared about.

Again you are correct  you'll spend less time on a single title when you have many to choose from.  My argument though is that you spend less time because the games aren't all that good.  There are very few games on any system that have a ton of replay value, even fewer if you've never played the system before.  So yeah you'll spend more time if you have physical games, but only because you have less games to choose from.... you'll still be suffering through a so-so game. 

Everyone should have to suffer through so-so games. That's the way we all grew up playing: $50 on a cartridge with a box sporting big promises the code couldn't live up to. Either you let depression over your wasted allowance cripple you, or you sucked it up and tried your best to make the most out of the underwhelming game.

But nowadays you can just download an entire collection, spend five seconds on a crappy game, laugh mockingly and move on. I'll tell you what though - playing through the bad games is what made the good games so much better. Super Mario Bros. 3, as an example, is still considered a great game. But when it first came out, playing it after spending the long-wait for it to come out with flat-out average NES carts made the game all the more amazing.

I still do that. Milon's Secret Castle. Not a good game, but I spent an evening with it... just because. Then I pop in Mega Man 2. It's like having candy after brussel sprouts. You appreciate it so much more.

BTW: Hopefully you'll realize I'm having fun with this "Point/Counter-Point" discussion on emulation vs. original hardware. I'm doing a self-examination of my MO with regards to retro-gaming. But - full disclosure - in reality, collecting old games is NOT something someone should start spending money simply for the sake of playing an old favorite, especially considering there are easier alternatives (legal and not-so-legal). It's like collecting vinyl records. Don't just do it because some old hipster (like myself) spews some rhetoric over the "superiority" that justifies the hassle as opposed to just hopping on iTunes or Amazon and getting the digital file in seconds. It has to be something you're into doing. Yes, it's fun and rewarding - but only if you're into more than just simply playing the game.

Truthfully, if I played games more these days, I'd be embracing the emulation so much more. But since I spend less time on games, I went with the "only play what I physically have" method. Call it a self-imposed restraint.

Of course, I don't really want everyone fighting for old hardware anyhow. God knows I don't want to end up paying high prices for ridiculously common games because everyone's holding onto their old stuff. 
 

[SavannahLion]

Man.. Willy Beamish on the Sega CD.  Another one of those <$5 when brand new purchases. 

I had already played through it on PC and thought the new content and voice work would make it fun.

Oh god was I wrong.  I didn't even make it through the opening sequence in the classroom.  Load times between sentences that have to be experienced to be believed.  That game should have never shipped like that.

Jesus Christ, there's a rarity. We agree.

That game was poop on that console. I spent countless hours on it only to have the SCD RAM corrupt itself. So, after purchasing the required RAM cart add-on, I spent more countless hours only to have a damn bug prevent me from moving forward. Frustrating as hell. Worse, I paid full price or near full price. Something like $30 or $40 for it.

Is WB that much better on the PC? I think I've seen it on Under Dogs, but never bothered to get it.

[ChadTower]

Man, Turbo Grafix was just a terrible system.  I had one friend completely in love with Military Commander and I can appreciate that turn based war games were a rarity on consoles. 

Military Madness?

[pinballjim]

Is WB that much better on the PC? I think I've seen it on Under Dogs, but never bothered to get it.

I just had the regular version but don't remember any show stopping glitches or crazy loading.

I do remember thinking it was a VERY unusual game with a lot of humor that wasn't kiddie... wrapped up in a kiddie game.  I think I got stuck on some part and it was months later before I found the solution somewhere and finally beat it.  Frog jumping contest?  Spitting contest?  Something like that.

Military Madness?

Sure, why not.

[Mysterioii]

But I did love the SegaCD but the only games I really ever still play were those published by Working Designs.

Oh yeah man, loved the hell out of Lunar and Lunar 2, and there were some others... Vay and Popful Mail come to mind...

I think I use Kega Fusion as my genesis emulator and it handles Sega CD and 32X games just fine.  I had never owned a 32X in the first place so it was interesting to fiddle around with that some.  I guess I would say... why not?  When I came across my genesis set the sega CD and 32X ones were right there with it.  My emulator of choice worked fine with them, so there wasn't any reason not to set them up.

Do I play them a lot?  Not so much, but I don't have much free time.  But for posterity's sake I'm glad I got 'em.

[Mysterioii]

Man.. Willy Beamish on the Sega CD.  Another one of those <$5 when brand new purchases. 

I had already played through it on PC and thought the new content and voice work would make it fun.

Oh god was I wrong.  I didn't even make it through the opening sequence in the classroom.  Load times between sentences that have to be experienced to be believed.  That game should have never shipped like that.

I have very bad memories of Mortal Kombat on the Sega CD.  Yeah the audio was nice, but there were matches where you had to fight 2 opponents....  after you killed the first he would hang in midair for several seconds before the other guy would jump out.  And then at the end when Shang Tsung was morphing between characters...  oh man that was frickin' miserable.

I actually took that one back to Target, opened, and talked a manager into giving me my money back.  And this was well after everyplace stopped taking open returns on games because of copying.  This thing was really truly unplayable in my opinion, and I was finally able to get the guy to make an exception.

[pinballjim]

There were a lot of Sega CD games I only played once.  Most of them I was buying brand new for "buy one get one free" and it worked out to $9/game.  There was a Sam Goody on St. Croix that had exactly one of everything and I was truly the only person on that island that owned most of that stuff. 

There were so many games I only played one time I got to where I would intentionally skip all the cinematic sequences... just to have an excuse to turn the game on a second time.  Some of them didn't even make that cut.

Saw exactly one copy of Snatcher once but that was $30 and I passed it up.  I keep firing it up on emulators but getting bored 10 minutes into it.

The conversion of Final Fight was pretty solid, though, I'll give it that.  We played the crap out of that one.  Silpheed faired pretty well, too.  Rest of it was a bucket of meh and I had binders full of games.

32X hit clearance almost immediately after it came out.  Pretty sure I owned every mainstream game at one point or another.  Virtua Fighter was nice and there was a dirt bike game we played a lot.  Otherwise meh.




 

[Mysterioii]

Yeah I won't begin to argue that there were a ton of good games.  I tried to make the most of it, I even played through the Sherlock Holmes FMV game where you tried to solve mysteries, and even though I got the answers right I got lousy scores (that was a pack-in, wasn't it?)  I did like Silpheed, Final Fight, the Working Designs games, maybe a few more.  I wanted to like Sonic CD...  I liked all the genesis-era Sonic games in general, but Sonic CD just didn't feel right.  IIRC it even had a suicide button combo in case you got stuck someplace and couldn't get out, and didn't want to wait for the timer to run down...  Now that's not right.... 

Never had a 32X at all.  A few of the games looked nice at the time, like that hummingbird one... but I don't have any pressing desire to play as a hummingbird.  Still, I'm glad they're preserved, and it was easy-cheesy to set up Kega Fusion to play them.  One day I'd like to play through all the Working Designs games again.

[pinballjim]

I've never gotten the love for Sonic CD or understood why people got so butthurt over the soundtrack.

Kolibri was the 32X game I dragged out to show off the graphics but it wasn't too hot a game.

[danny_galaga]

I bought an Atari Jaguar a few years ago. Like some of those other consoles mentioned, not many games, and a number of turds, but there are some awesome games for it too. Tempest 2000 takes the cake, especially if you use a rotary controller. Tempest is pretty cheap too. Alien vs Predator is great, but being a FPS, not for the casual gamer. Tends not to be cheap either. A great 2 player game is Super Burnout, which is a sprite based motorbike racer. Also cheap (",)

[ChadTower]

I will usually make a case for any given unpopular console.  I love them all, I love to help others experience them all, real hardware and real games.  The Jaguar is probably the toughest to justify.  It's super expensive right now and really those two games you mentioned are the only two good ones on the whole platform.  A couple years ago when the Jaguar was cheap it was worth doing.  Now... hard for even me to tell someone to spend the cash on a Jaguar unless they have tried everything else already.

[pinballjim]

Yeah, I went through a phase when I got e-bay and my very own credit card.  Jaguar was one of the results.  Never seen such a glitchy system in my life.  Sneeze on it?  Crash.   Press to many buttons at once?  Crash.  One of the sellers seemed to be used to it... I think I had three copies of some crummy puzzle game because he kept just sending replacements.

Alien Vs Predator looks like a Wolfenstein mod and is terrible.  My copy would start randomly screeching about 10 minutes into it.  Bug?  Feature?  Who cares?  Just a lot of hype because people that owned that system had nothing else to brag about.  (see also Marathon on the 90s mac)

Put it all in a box and dumped it on Ebay a month later and think I actually made money on that ordeal.

[ChadTower]

Alien Vs Predator looks like a Wolfenstein mod and is terrible.  My copy would start randomly screeching about 10 minutes into it.  Bug?  Feature?  Who cares?  Just a lot of hype because people that owned that system had nothing else to brag about.  (see also Marathon on the 90s mac)

That game was way leading edge for a console.  At the time it was cool.  It doesn't stand up worth a damn, though.

[404]

Had a turbografx when i was a kid. i would go with the games destronger mentioned. If you can grab some japanese games, the turbografx/pc-engine had tons of great shoot em up games. Easily was the leading console for shmup games at the time and possibly still is. Their rendition of street fighter 1 and double dragon II (both on cd) were also solid. In the case of double dragon II, it's almost nothing like the arcade and nes versions.

[lilshawn]

was at the value village by my place last weekend and there was no less than:

1 fat PS2
1 slim ps2
3 xboxes
1 SNES
1 turbo graphics
1 colecovision

all but the SNES where >$20 (the snes was 39)

only bought 1 xbox  and a drawing tablet for $5

heading out there this evening...anybody need anything?? 

[ChadTower]

all but the SNES where >$20 (the snes was 39)

 

[404]

was at the value village by my place last weekend and there was no less than:

1 fat PS2
1 slim ps2
3 xboxes
1 SNES
1 turbo graphics
1 colecovision

all but the SNES where >$20 (the snes was 39)

only bought 1 xbox  and a drawing tablet for $5

heading out there this evening...anybody need anything?? 

Honesly, if i had money i would send you over to get the turbografx. haven't been able to find one near me. 

[lilshawn]

 

yesterdays collection was:

1- Playstation 1
2- xbox
1- sega genesis model 2

went to 2 others in my city today and they had bugger all.

hit and miss i guess.

[Howard_Casto]

Man.. Willy Beamish on the Sega CD.  Another one of those <$5 when brand new purchases. 

I had already played through it on PC and thought the new content and voice work would make it fun.

Oh god was I wrong.  I didn't even make it through the opening sequence in the classroom.  Load times between sentences that have to be experienced to be believed.  That game should have never shipped like that.

I have very bad memories of Mortal Kombat on the Sega CD.  Yeah the audio was nice, but there were matches where you had to fight 2 opponents....  after you killed the first he would hang in midair for several seconds before the other guy would jump out.  And then at the end when Shang Tsung was morphing between characters...  oh man that was frickin' miserable.

I actually took that one back to Target, opened, and talked a manager into giving me my money back.  And this was well after everyplace stopped taking open returns on games because of copying.  This thing was really truly unplayable in my opinion, and I was finally able to get the guy to make an exception.

The old Mortal Kombat games and CD's never played nice with each other.  I can remember how lame the sega/psx ports were... with the mind-numbingly long load times, and Shang's crippled morphing ability.  This is the true reason they are trying to phase out poor old Shang btw....  we haven't had a proper, morph into anyone, Shang Tsung since the N64 version of MKT and the reason is that you just can't load the textures/move sets of a new fighter fast enough off of a disc, even today.  I would love to see a future mk game that required you to install the game to the harddrive so you could have full morphs again. 

There's a reason Shang is my Avatar... back in the day on MK2 I had all of Shang's morphs memorized as well as all the specials of all the characters.  I'd drive my friends crazy because they couldn't keep up with the constant switching. 

[danny_galaga]

Yeah, I went through a phase when I got e-bay and my very own credit card.  Jaguar was one of the results.  Never seen such a glitchy system in my life.  Sneeze on it?  Crash.   Press to many buttons at once?  Crash.  One of the sellers seemed to be used to it... I think I had three copies of some crummy puzzle game because he kept just sending replacements.

Alien Vs Predator looks like a Wolfenstein mod and is terrible.  My copy would start randomly screeching about 10 minutes into it.  Bug?  Feature?  Who cares?  Just a lot of hype because people that owned that system had nothing else to brag about.  (see also Marathon on the 90s mac)

Put it all in a box and dumped it on Ebay a month later and think I actually made money on that ordeal.

Well, since the freight was going to be the killer (most Jags are in the US, I'm in Australia) I went for a NIB. I haven't found it to be glitchy at all. AVP doesn't behave the way you mentioned normally. I must admit though, when you look at how many goddam contacts there are in the cartridge, it certainly is asking for errors. But so far, I occasionally get the 'red screen of death' and that's it. Now I look at the prices for consoles, they have gone up a fair bit. I think a new one, when I bought it was $99. I know at the time they went broke, you could pick them up for ten bucks or summink, but that is irrelevant for me, since it never made it to here. But I see your point, it's pricey. Hmmm, just thought I'd look at prices for pc engine/ turbo grafx. I've been interested in the past. They seem to be going for more than the Jag. Looks like NONE of the rarer consoles are going cheap anymore. Everyone wants one! Maybe better value would be Atari Lynx, there still seem to be good deals going, if Shponglefan is interested in handhelds.

Oh, back to Jag, Raiden is great on the Jag (if you have a rapid fire controller  )

[Howard_Casto]

I don't think that's the case necessarily.

I think the popularity of shows like Pawn Stars and Storage Wars has made the whole nation think that their crappy, worthless, _____ collection is worth more money than it actually is.  Unfortunately, because eBay is so much easier than hunting down a console on foot, a lot of people are willing to pay the inflated prices. 

[Malenko]

I had and loved my sega CD. fave games off the top of my head: (yes I had to google to get the exact names)
Jaguar XJ220 racing game : You could design your own tracks with elevation changes
Lunar Games: pretty much everything Working Designs was great
Eternal Champions: was pretty neat even if I never beat it
Robo Aleste was a good vert shooter
Earth Worm Jim special edition was pretty neat.
Road Rash, and inferior port of the 3DO version but since no one had a 3DO (cept me) this was cool
Rise of the Dragon and Snatcher really at up a lot of time I should have spent playing outdoors as a kid.
Ground Zero, Texas was prolly the best FMV game ever made


I had a 32x as well, Virtua Fighter and Racer were great but most of the games were just improved genesis games like WWF RAW, Toughman Contest, NBA Jam, and world series baseball.

I would definately advocate trying some out on an emulator before buying them. And Rondo of Blood is not the best castlevania game, Symphony of the Night is.

[ChadTower]

I don't think that's the case necessarily.

I think the popularity of shows like Pawn Stars and Storage Wars has made the whole nation think that their crappy, worthless, _____ collection is worth more money than it actually is.  Unfortunately, because eBay is so much easier than hunting down a console on foot, a lot of people are willing to pay the inflated prices.

Would that type of show convince buyers that the crap is worth more than it is?  And if buyers are paying then doesn't that demonstrate that it actually is worth the higher prices?