Tv + 8liners or tv + radeon 4850 and 7 pin component cable. Need advice

[arcadepcnut]

Hello all again
I have a slight problem that the more I've read the more I get confused.

I have a 19 inch arcade monitor in my galaga/pacman vertical game cabinet.
I have a 25 inch arcade monitor in my mortal kombat/neogeo fighting horizontal cabinet.

I'm ready to upgrade the 19"

I thought about LCD but ruled it out. Don't ask me but I'm of the opinion to emulate as close to possible the authentic feel of the arcade games I played when younger. So I want golden axe to look like it did when I was 16 playing it in arcades. So LCD is out for a couple reasons.

Here are my choices. I want to spend the least possible for best bang for the buck. Or else I can buy used 25"  arcade moniotr locally for 250$. I don't really want to spend that much.

I have an Ati radeon 485o I'm going to use with the custom 15k catalyst drivers. I also have arcade VGA cards in both machines ATM at my disposal. These are the second model. 9250s?!?

What I want to do is move the 25 inch real arcade monitor into e verticle cabinet and replace the fighting horizontal with a 27".

I have 3 27 inch tvs in my basement. One is a Philips with component, others two are just composite.
Soooo...in your opinion will this work and which option is better? See below:

Ati radeon 4850 with 15hz driver (soft15k or custom catalyst) to Ati 7 pin svideo to component cable > 27" Phillips tv with component in. I don't have the 7 pin round to component cable (10$) but they are available.
Or
Is this even possible Ati radeon 4850 with 15k driver to dvi converter to component > 27" Phillips tv with component....there is a post I read that if you have dvi out with the 4 pins around the spade you can output component from dvi with a dongle but I don't know how accurate that information is (10-15$)
Or this same configuration with a Dvi to component trancoder (35-60$) the transcoders are pretty expensive and I would rather go 8 liners for a few dollars more.
Or last but definitely not least.....
Ati radeon 4850 15k driver to one of the other tvs with 8liners chassis (115$). I THINK one of the other two 27" are compatible but will have to recheck. I'm not 100% confident in my skills to hook up the 8liners but it's a challenge I don't mind tackling for the end result I would get,

Will any above do all resolutions for all horizontal games? Killer instinct, mortal kombat, street fighter etc?
I want close to authentic but it doesn't have to be exact or I would shell out the 250 for a used 25" real arcade monitor (but I really want a 27" in there because it's as big as will fit in that cabinet.

I'm ready to act on this pretty soon and will probably get the Ati 7 pin svideo style to component as its the cheapest place to start

Thanks for looking.

[rCadeGaming]

I don't know about the "seven pin s-video to component adapter."  You may end up being stuck with fuzzy, poorly encoded 480i instead of ~240p native resolutions.

I don't know of any good DVI to component transcoders for this application, so I'd recommend VGA to component.  Second link in my thread.

If you prefer the 8 liners chassis, that will get you the same resolutions if it works correctly (~240p, which is 90% of MAME, as well as 480i).  You'll have to check the yoke to see if it's compatible.

The composite input TV's aren't useful for this.  Your Phillips is probably not a bad tube for this, but if I recall correctly, they usually have a jumper inside just to get into the service menu; big PITA, and the service menu is mandatory for proper geometry.  You could pick up another TV cheap, or using the 8 liners chassis will give you some geometry control, if it's compatible.

[arcadepcnut]

Ok thanks. I read all you links below your sig. It doesn't look like I will get what I want unless I go
A:
Arcade monitor
B:
Tv tube with 8liners chassis


Looks like the other options are complicated and hit or miss.

Thanks!

[rCadeGaming]

C: TV with VGA to component transcoder.

This is not any more complicated than A or B.  You just plug it in.  There is a good amount of work in sending native 15kHz signals out of the computer's VGA port, but that is the exact same process with C as it is with A or B.

Just make sure that the TV is 15kHz or "standard def."  It should work with ~240p and 480i.  Be sure it is NOT compatible with 480p.  You can test this by hooking up a DVD/Blu-Ray player or modern game console.  You should get garbage on the screen when trying to feed it 480p.

[arcadepcnut]

Don't take this the wrong way. I appreciate all your advice. But if a transcoder is required it's not really an option for me to make a tv work. Transcodes are almost as expensive or more expensive than the 8liners chassis. 8 liners chassis takes a tube and makes it a real arcade monitor. A transcoder is not worth it to me to add that variable. From what I read you got good results with it. But I'm not willing to risk trying to get the right one (most are one way and the wrong way <component to VGA not VGA to component> and spending that much money for what I consider a work around. You answered my question perfect and talked me into using a real arcade monitor. It's what I'm used to using and dealing with and now that I've seen that and used that (real arcade monitor) I guess I've come to expect that. I've not cut any corners on my projects. When I did I always had to go back and redo them and it cost more money that doing it the more expensive way in the first place. My driving machine and visual pinball ended up costing more because I tried to skimp. Not saying the transcoder is skimping but it's another variable that I don't want to introduce.

[rCadeGaming]

Not saying you necessarily should go with the transcoder.  A and B are equally good options, just stating that option C is there.

[arcadepcnut]

Hello. i hope you are still here. Bought 8liners chassis. is wasnt an 8liners it was an offbrand that i thought was an 8 liners. Didnt work.
So i bought an ATI 7 pin cable to composite. missing blue color. So cable is wrong pinout for my card.
So i went with the transcoder. Well i thought it was a transcoder. I Bought the below at a good price:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/STARTECH-VGA-to-Component-YPbPr-Video-Converter-/290872176793?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item43b9553099
Image scrolls and cant get a stable image. using crt emudriver.
I dont have the white port hooked up because i cant Im just using the red green blue and cant get a stable image so i assume this is the wrong device.
If your still here can you tell me what i need to get to make my ati 4850 work with crt emudriver groovy mame and a component input TV ?!?
please help. i hope i didnt make you mad but im at my wits end
Whats the difference ina  trancoder and a convertor? what should i be looking for? I read one post about a crescendo but those seem rare. is there a more common transcoder that works? Ive almost spent what a used an arcade monitor costs at this point if you count time as money i HAVE!!

[rCadeGaming]

You need include enough details to get useful answers.  Also, please format your posts so it's more readable than a wall of text.

-

What TV did you try to use with what conversion chassis?

Why didn't it work?  Incompatible connections at the yoke?

You mean ATI 7 pin cable to component?  Big difference. 

Was the card told to use the cable correctly in software?

Did actually determine and compare pinouts, or are you assuming since it didn't work right away?

-

That's not a pure transcoder.  It's a digital converter with scaling.  The listing clearly says outputs are 480p or 720p only.  It won't work with a TV suitable for MAME, and it will cause input lag while scaling.  Resell or trash it.

What TV are you trying to use with the transcoder?  Include the model number.  I'm guessing it's a standard def TV, which means it requires a ~240p or 480i signal.  This is good for MAME, as 90% of MAME games originally ran in ~240p, but the TV will never work with a 480p or 720p signal from that converter.

-

A transcoder translates colorspace from WITHOUT changing resolution.  Crescendo's are not rare, buy a new TC1600 right here:

http://www.crescendo-systems.com/transcoder.html

There are cheaper ones, but the TC1600 is what I use, and it's guaranteed to work with all the resolutions and timing values for native res MAME. 

One cheaper option that should work is to use a SCART to component transcoder if you make a VGA to SCART adapter with a sync combiner:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-SCART-RGB-to-YUV-Component-Video-Converter-Scaler-/221156873851?pt=US_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item337dfa167b

Ignore the title where it says scaler.  A CVS 287 is not a scaler, the seller is misinformed.

-

You need to do a lot more learning to understand how to get this stuff working together.  You've pissed away a lot of money because you half-assed your research and just hoped it would work.  Please read the second link in my signature.

[arcadepcnut]

I didnt realize that a paragraph was considered a wall of text. my apologies.

Its a philips 27" 27ps55

I measured the yoke and it is compatible. I guess a cheap chassis. I could not get a stable picture.

7 pin to component. yes. error on my part. the reason i assume it is incompatible because it says ASUS on cable package and i have ab XFX. The blue wire does nothing when it is plugged and uplugged from monitor.

Card auto detects cable and puts a image on the monitor that is both readable and stable and games will play. However whatever the Pb (Blue cable) does is missing. Colors are too red.

I am assuming because it didnt work and the green Y and Red Pr worked. I also googled and found out later that different cards have different cables.

You answered my question. I have a convertor not a transcoder. You say that what i have is a convertor and it does scaling. but ad says "Please note that the VGA to Component (YPbPr) Video Converter does not provide video scaling".
however, It will go in trash. Thanks for the information. Im not willing to spend 139$ on this project at this point. I can buy 6 TVS on craigslist and will try to get the 8liners board to work before going that route. thanks!

I just saw this "You need to do a lot more learning to understand how to get this stuff working together.  You've pissed away a lot of money because you half-assed your research and just hoped it would work.  Please read the second link in my signature."

Wow thanks man. I know i pissed away alot of money. Not everyone can understand everything. There is alot of trial and error in this hobby. I was trying to figure stuff out on my own. Sorry for trying to do that before bugging the community here.

You need include enough details to get useful answers.  Also, please format your posts so it's more readable than a wall of text.

-

What TV did you try to use with what conversion chassis?

Why didn't it work?  Incompatible connections at the yoke?

You mean ATI 7 pin cable to component?  Big difference. 

Was the card told to use the cable correctly in software?

Did actually determine and compare pinouts, or are you assuming since it didn't work right away?

-

That's not a pure transcoder.  It's a digital converter with scaling.  The listing clearly says outputs are 480p or 720p only.  It won't work with a TV suitable for MAME, and it will cause input lag while scaling.  Resell or trash it.

What TV are you trying to use with the transcoder?  Include the model number.  I'm guessing it's a standard def TV, which means it requires a ~240p or 480i signal.  This is good for MAME, as 90% of MAME games originally ran in ~240p, but the TV will never work with a 480p or 720p signal from that converter.

-

A transcoder translates colorspace from WITHOUT changing resolution.  Crescendo's are not rare, buy a new TC1600 right here:

http://www.crescendo-systems.com/transcoder.html

There are cheaper ones, but the TC1600 is what I use, and it's guaranteed to work with all the resolutions and timing values for native res MAME. 

One cheaper option that should work is to use a SCART to component transcoder if you make a VGA to SCART adapter with a sync combiner:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-SCART-RGB-to-YUV-Component-Video-Converter-Scaler-/221156873851?pt=US_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item337dfa167b

Ignore the title where it says scaler.  A CVS 287 is not a scaler, the seller is misinformed.

-

You need to do a lot more learning to understand how to get this stuff working together.  You've pissed away a lot of money because you half-assed your research and just hoped it would work.  Please read the second link in my signature.

[rCadeGaming]

Sorry.  Not trying to discourage you from posting, it's just that:

1.  When asking people to give up their own time to help you with your problems, it's respectful format your posts so that they aren't difficult to read (punctuation, paragraph seperation; latest post is fine), and provide full details so that your questions are answerable.  I apologize that I wasn't respectful in my response.

2.  Sorry to assume you half-assed your research, but when you don't know the difference between a transcoder and a scaler, and didn't know that the 480p or 720p output from that thing wouldn't display on a standard definition TV, that's the impression I got.  I had already recommended some reading a while ago, and if you had looked into it you would have known both of those things.

btw, it certainly is a scaler.  The seller worded things very poorly in the description there, and likely doesn't know what he's talking about.  See it has output resolutions which are different from the input resolutions?  If it was not a scaler, resolution could not be changed.

I see people all the time here asking questions that are basically "I can't be bothered to put in a lot of time to research through readily available materials, can't someone else take time of out their day and summarize it for me, and just tell me what do, and magically provide complete answers to incomplete questions?"  Most people don't even want to waste their time with it.  At least I was nice enough to respond.  See how many views this got and no one else did?  What would you rather have?  Decent advice from a jerk telling the hard truth, incomplete advice from someone being nice, or none at all?

In your first post in this thread, you seemed well researched so far and asked good questions to move forward, but you didn't follow through from there.  I was trying to tell you to take the money lost as a lesson to research things completely, rather than spending and hoping it would work.