Author Topic: Multiple Light Guns with Analog+XP (Read 3486 times)

Terry · « **on:** October 10, 2003, 05:27:05 am »

I finally received my 2 Act Labs USB TV Light Guns. I am having some difficulty setting up the 2nd gun in mame. By default, the LightGun 1 X and Y axis are mapped to keystrokes, and analog controls. This is good, the first gun works just fine. The LightGun 2 X and Y axis are only mapped to keystrokes. How do I map the X and Y axis to also be analog inputs for the second lightgun? The interested thing is that when I just shoot around on the screen with each gun, the cross hairs move around normally, but with the 2nd light gun, the bullet only hits in the middle of the screen, even though the cross hair is at a different location. The 1st light gun works just fine.

I am not sure how to set up the analog+XP section in the .ini file because it only gives you lightgun2a and lightgun2b which was the same as the older versions of analog+. The new thing I see is the multimouse_winxp option. I tried this, but it mapped my trigger buttons incorrectly. It mapped lightgun 1 trigger button to Mouse 2, Button 0 and lightgun 2 trigger button to Mouse 1, Button 2. So I turned this feature off.

Anyway, just not sure how to program the axis for the second light gun.

Also, my calibration is completely off on both guns. They are about 6 inches to the right and 1 inch to high. I calibrated and re-calibrated a bunch of times, but it is always the exact same. I tried many different combinations with the two light guns and unplugged them several times to try and reset the calibration, but once I try and calibrate each gun, they are both off and always the same. I will call Act Labs tomorrow and see what might be the problem.

jerryjanis · « **Reply #1 on:** October 10, 2003, 06:54:55 am »

Quote from: Terry on October 10, 2003, 05:27:05 am

The interested thing is that when I just shoot around on the screen with each gun, the cross hairs move around normally, but with the 2nd light gun, the bullet only hits in the middle of the screen, even though the cross hair is at a different location. The 1st light gun works just fine.

The 2nd lightgun is affecting the first player's crosshairs. Sounds like a job for multimouse_winxp!

1.) Turn lightgun2a and lightgun2b off - they will not work with WinXP.
2.) Turn the "multimouse_winxp" option on.
3.) Turn the "lightgun" option on.

Quote

The new thing I see is the multimouse_winxp option. I tried this, but it mapped my trigger buttons incorrectly. It mapped lightgun 1 trigger button to Mouse 2, Button 0 and lightgun 2 trigger button to Mouse 1, Button 2. So I turned this feature off.

Multimouse_winxp doesn't differentiate between mice and lightguns, so you will have to manually choose each lightgun as the corresponding mouse in the Mame settings.

4.) Turn the "switchmice" option on.
5.) Run Mame, and press tab to get into the Mame settings
6.) Select "Input (this game)" from the menu.
7.) Map the lightgun triggers to "player 1 button 1" and "player 2 button 1" and remember the mouse number that is associated with each lightgun.
8.) Under "Mouse Controls" map the mouse number to each player's lightgun.

Quote

Also, my calibration is completely off on both guns. They are about 6 inches to the right and 1 inch to high. I calibrated and re-calibrated a bunch of times, but it is always the exact same. I tried many different combinations with the two light guns and unplugged them several times to try and reset the calibration, but once I try and calibrate each gun, they are both off and always the same. I will call Act Labs tomorrow and see what might be the problem.

That I can't help you with, but mention it here if you find out anything from act labs. Does it have the same problem on the windows desktop, using the guns as a mouse pointer? (I'm wondering if it's a Mame problem or an Act Labs/Windows problem).

Try this out, and let me know if it works.

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #2 on:** October 10, 2003, 11:35:36 am »

Something to note is act-labs reccomends you calibrate your game every single time you play it. Also that means for every game, not just each mame use.

Terry · « **Reply #3 on:** October 10, 2003, 11:52:35 am »

Thanks for the help jerryjanis. I folllowed your steps and now the guns work great, except for the calibration.

One funny thing though, there is a 3 position switch on the side of each gun used to calibrate, postion for player 1 and position for player 2. When I set the player 2 gun in the proper player 2 position, and I try and map the re-load button, I get nothing. But when I set the player 2 gun to the player 1 postion, it maps just fine. Using analog+xp, it is not required to set the player 2 gun to the player 2 position. I tested this with a few games and they still work independent of eachother.

Howard_Casto, according to these new TV light guns, they say you only need to calibrate them once and never again unless they are disconnected. Of course, I have tried calibrating them many times in all the different games, and I always get the same thing.

Oh ya, the calibration is also off in windows when moving the cursor around with the guns. So it is not a Mame thing. I did notice that when I moved the guns back about 1 1/2 feet from the screen, the calibration was different, it was pretty much all over the place. When I held the gun in one spot and kept pressing the trigger it never hit the same spot twice. And when I would move just a little to one side, it would jump across the whole screen. But as I got about 6 inches away from the screen, it was more consistent, but still off about 6 inches to the right and 1 inch up. This is on a 27in TV.

I'll call Act labs today and post what they say.

Thanks again for all your help.

Terry

jerryjanis · « **Reply #4 on:** October 10, 2003, 12:11:09 pm »

Quote from: Terry on October 10, 2003, 11:52:35 am

Thanks for the help jerryjanis. I folllowed your steps and now the guns work great, except for the calibration.

Great!

Quote from: Terry on October 10, 2003, 11:52:35 am

One funny thing though, there is a 3 position switch on the side of each gun used to calibrate, postion for player 1 and position for player 2. When I set the player 2 gun in the proper player 2 position, and I try and map the re-load button, I get nothing. But when I set the player 2 gun to the player 1 postion, it maps just fine. Using analog+xp, it is not required to set the player 2 gun to the player 2 position. I tested this with a few games and they still work independent of eachother.

I'm not suprised. Mame Analog+ for multiple lightguns (in Win XP or Win 98) came out before any new-fangled "2 player switch". Probably the switch is only helpful if the particular game is programmed for it.

Now you've got me curious. I wonder... If a gun in player 1 mode sent ordinary values (say, "0-100" or "0-200 odd numbers only"), and the gun in player 2 mode sent values from a separate set of numbers (say, "101-200" or "0-200 even values only") then if Mame were programmed to handle it, there would be no problem differentiating between 2 lightguns, even in Windows XP without the new raw mouse stuff.

Please don't let me intrude - you should be playing games, not running silly tests, but if you have a minute, can you try this?

http://www.jstookey.com/arcade/rawmouse/raw_mouse_test.exe

Shoot the guns at the window a few times in with the gun set "player 1 mode" and again in "player 2 mode". Look at the values for "Mouse X" and "Mouse Y". Does one mode always give odd numbers and the other even? Low and high? Positive and negative? Or is there some other difference you can notice?

Lilwolf · « **Reply #5 on:** October 10, 2003, 02:32:04 pm »

btw, I don't have that gun, multi guns, or use analog+ on XP... So take it with a big grain of salt.

but with the standard gun... I had best luck with not having to recalibrate the gun by setting mame up to never change resolutions... And hwstretch on each game.

If you plan on switching between games... This might be a good start.

Terry · « **Reply #6 on:** October 10, 2003, 05:51:10 pm »

Well, I have spoken with Act Labs about the calibration issue, and it came down to the fact that these TV USB Light Guns are not compatible with my TV! That really sucks since I built the cab around this TV.

I tested the entire setup by hooking up another TV sitting on the floor next to my cab and the guns worked perfect. I reconnected to the TV in my cab, and exactly as before, the calibration is consistantly off.

These are the model#'s I tested with for anyones reference.

TV USB Light Gun not compatible with Panasonic Model# CT-27L8G
Gun works perfect with Panasonic Model# CT-27SX12AF.

I am going to return my CT-27L8G and exchange it for another of the same model and see if there is possible something funny with that particular TV. Chances are it still won't work. Who knows.

I just hope I can find another TV that will meet the same size specs. I think there are a few.

If anyone else by chance has tested these guns with this same TV and it worked, please let me know!

Terry · « **Reply #7 on:** October 10, 2003, 07:20:48 pm »

jerryjanis,

I'll give your program a try, but I won't be able to get to it until this weekend.

Terry · « **Reply #8 on:** October 11, 2003, 01:04:30 pm »

Here a quick update of the Act Labs TV USB Light Guns compatability.

Purchased second Panasonic CT-27L8G and still would not calibrate properly.
Purchased JVC AV-27230S and it works perfect. Same specs as Panasonic and fit into my cab perfectly.

Terry

shmokes · « **Reply #9 on:** October 11, 2003, 10:39:24 pm »

That's scary. I hope it works with mine.

u_rebelscum · « **Reply #10 on:** October 12, 2003, 11:37:16 pm »

Quote from: Terry on October 10, 2003, 11:52:35 am

One funny thing though, there is a 3 position switch on the side of each gun used to calibrate, postion for player 1 and position for player 2. When I set the player 2 gun in the proper player 2 position, and I try and map the re-load button, I get nothing. But when I set the player 2 gun to the player 1 postion, it maps just fine.

The lightguns assume the mouse driver has support for 4 mouse buttons, since switching to player 2 position makes the trigger button 3 & reload button 4. Some drivers support only 3 buttons. Do you know if you plugged in the gun into the USB port when it was in the player 2 position?

Mame should support as many mouse buttons per mouse as directX (4 or

and the mouse driver in windows do.

Quote

Using analog+xp, it is not required to set the player 2 gun to the player 2 position. I tested this with a few games and they still work independent of each other.

Yes, if you use analog+, you don't need to switch the gun to two player mode.

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #11 on:** October 13, 2003, 09:15:35 am »

I know mame *should* support all mouse buttons, but it doesn't. I have a 5 button mouse and mame can only see the first three, although any other directx app or windoze app can see all 5. It seems to be hit and miss judging from what I've seen with other mice. Probably less of an input issue and more of an issue of mame not coded to look for the other buttons.

I guess it's supposed to though if the act-labs guys made them that way. I've yet to get it to work though.

u_rebelscum · « **Reply #12 on:** October 14, 2003, 01:43:44 am »

Quote from: Howard_Casto on October 13, 2003, 09:15:35 am

I know mame *should* support all mouse buttons, but it doesn't. I have a 5 button mouse and mame can only see the first three, although any other directx app or windoze app can see all 5. It seems to be hit and miss judging from what I've seen with other mice. Probably less of an input issue and more of an issue of mame not coded to look for the other buttons.

I guess it's supposed to though if the act-labs guys made them that way. I've yet to get it to work though.

Shucks; I'll look into this. I can see a couple spots in the source OTTOMH the problem might be, but I'll need to look into what's going on. Thanks for the heads up.

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #13 on:** October 14, 2003, 06:18:49 am »

I would appreciate it geatly. It very well could be an issue with some mice though. As I said it's been hit and miss for me.

Getting back on topic, I got my gun yesterday (finally) This thing rocks! Guess I'll have to buy a second now.

Bill_S · « **Reply #14 on:** October 14, 2003, 07:02:03 am »

Mine came in yesterday (Monday), too.
It is pretty sweet. I've got 3 of them sitting here, with one hooked up. The instructions weren't real clear on how to hook up a 2nd gun, has anyone tried this yet?
Do I need to daisy chain the video portion of the second gun in?
Is there anything special I need to do to get MAME to let me use the 2nd gun?

Right now I'm running MAME 67, do I need to upgrade to a newer version before trying 2 guns?

Lots of questions, I know. Maybe I should stop being such a chicken and just plug it in.

jerryjanis · « **Reply #15 on:** October 14, 2003, 07:50:00 am »

This is just as much a question as an answer, but shouldn't the new TV lightguns work with the standard version of Mame (including your version 67) for any version of Windows (even Win2k)?

It sounds like you would have to do the following:
1) Connect both guns and daisy chain the VGA box.
2) Switch the player 1 gun to p1 mode and the player 2 gun to p2 mode
3) Start Mame
4) Press tab - in the settings map each player's fire button to the trigger.

That's it! I don't have the guns, but from what people have said, it sounds like that's all you have to do.

I don't know if there are any Mame games that would actually use it, but if you wanted to use more than 2 guns you would need to use MameAnalog+.

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #16 on:** October 14, 2003, 07:58:16 am »

You turn on -lightgun in mame, plug both guns together as you said, leave the first gun in the middle position and change the second gun to the right position for gun 2.

In theory you shouldn't have to do anything in mame. However I don't know if the "lightgun" switch has been kept up to date so it might be a version or two before they work in regular mame.

u_rebelscum · « **Reply #17 on:** October 14, 2003, 11:09:07 pm »

Quote

I don't know if there are any Mame games that would actually use it, but if you wanted to use more than 2 guns you would need to use MameAnalog+.

There are a couple three player lightgun games in mame: revx (Revolution X) & bbusters (Beast Busters).

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #18 on:** October 15, 2003, 08:08:54 am »

Well sort of. All 3 player gun games had positional analog guns. There is no such thing as a "real" 3 player lightgun game. Those games you mentioned don't work super well with the lightguns because you are supposed to hold down the trigger as they are machine guns. That's something that you simply can't do with a lightgun.

The solution imo is to make a small autofire circuit and install it in the empty upper compartment on the gun. However then the screen is gonna flash like mad, so it might make the games unplayable.

Bill_S · « **Reply #19 on:** October 16, 2003, 07:10:11 am »

OK, I'm having trouble getting Analog+XP to work with my 2 TV-Out Lightguns.
I gave up on trying to do it in normal MAME, see this thread for details:
http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=12408

And I installed Analog+XP last night. I cannot get it to take the triggers though. It tracks both lightguns around the screen but won't register a shot. When I hit tab and try to set my triggers as button 1 for each lightgun it doesn't recognize them there either. Both lightguns are in the P1 position as suggested above.
Based on my findings so far trying to get the dual lightguns working I know I must be doing something stupid and I'm missing it.
Any ideas?

As I was typing this I happened to think, I installed analog+xp in my normal MAME directory and had it make an ini. It made mameanalogxp.ini. Is it actually using that file? Maybe I screwed up on the install and it's only reading my normal mame.ini.

Bill_S · « **Reply #20 on:** October 16, 2003, 06:20:24 pm »

Nope, that didn't fix it.
I've tried every setting suggested and still nothing.

I've gotten this far:
When running standard MAME I can get 1 lightgun working fine, 2 will not work.
When running MAMEanalogXP I get no fire from either lightgun. MAME just will not register the triggers (at all).

jerryjanis · « **Reply #21 on:** October 16, 2003, 07:06:38 pm »

I recommend installing MameAnalog+XP in it's own directory, at least for starters. You do not want to use any of the files from your old installation (config files, nvram, .ini, etc.).

Quote

When I hit tab and try to set my triggers as button 1 for each lightgun it doesn't recognize them there either.

Make sure that you don't have the game paused in Mame when you are configuring mouse buttons. Mame will not configure/register mouse buttons when the game is paused.

Please try this and post the settings that you are using (.ini settings or command line switches - whichever you are using).

Quote

It tracks both lightguns around the screen but won't register a shot.

For a 2-player game such as police trainer, do the two sets of crosshairs each move independently (correctly) for each gun, or is just 1 set of crosshairs moving?

Bill_S · « **Reply #22 on:** October 16, 2003, 09:49:43 pm »

OK, I installed it in it's own directory and made a fresh ini file. I didn't copy over anything from my standard MAME install.
I don't have the game paused when configuring mouse buttons, but thanks for the tip.

My .ini settings are as follows:
switchablemice 1
multiplemouse_winxp 1
The rest in that section are 0

lightgun 1

I've been doing all my testing in point blank. Yes, each crosshair is moving independently.

I am truly at a loss.

Edit - I'm going to try and back up a version on analog+XP and go with 74.1 tonight. Also, I'll try and use the command line switches instead of ini file.
Just -multiplemicexp -lightgun, right?

jerryjanis · « **Reply #23 on:** October 17, 2003, 09:08:07 am »

mameanalogxp -switchmice -multiplemicexp -lightgun

Your only problem is that on the Mame button configuration screen, Mame doesn't register your trigger pulls. Hmmm...

The only other thing I can suggest is to make sure that you have the lightgun switches in the correct position. For Analog+ XP I believe that both gun switches should be in the position that makes the buttons register the trigger as the first and second mouse buttons.

I'm sorry I can't help. I don't know what's wrong. It might be worth PM'ing some of the guys who have gotten the guns working to see if they know anything.

Bill_S · « **Reply #24 on:** October 17, 2003, 06:31:39 pm »

Well I tried not using a config and used command line switches instead. No-go. I tried version 74.1, too. That didn't work either.


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