Makvision/Weiya 29" (M2929) for Advmame/Advmenu/MGA400/Linux?

[emuola]

I have a working cabinet based on lincade (gentoo linux + advmenu + advmame). Display adapter is Matrox MGA400, bacause of the possibility to define the original resolutions. At the moment I have a standard 21" Hitachi monitor inside the cab. The only (and most important thing) missing from my almost perfect (at least for me) cabinet is a proper and big arcade monitor. On the xgaming.com website they suggest that the aforementioned monitor would be a good choice for mame use (because it's more like a standard svga monitor and not a traditional tri-sync). Because I'm a pessimist, I'd like to know your sophisticated opinion on this   Is this the monitor I want? This baby would set me back for over $700 including shipping from UK to Finland so I want to be sure on this

http://www.xgaming.com/store/arcade-parts-and-accessories/product/weiya-29-flat-screen-crt-arcade-monitor/

Any tips highly appreciated

[MonMotha]

I'm told they work fine and look alright.  The remaining CRT monitors on the market are pretty cheap in general, but they'll get the job done.  Late 90s-early 2000s seems to have been when you could actually get "good" CRT arcade monitors, mostly from Japan.

Be aware that model really is "more like a computer monitor".  It won't do native arcade modes at all.  It's basically just a 29" PC monitor in a standard arcade mounting frame.  The dot pitch is a bit coarser than a normal PC tube, so 640x480 should still look OK (it'll get "softened" a bit and not look as harsh at that size as a PC monitor of comparable size would).  You can't use "native resolution" for any classic arcade games on this thing.

On the other hand, plug and play with Windows XP, which defaults to 800x600 - a mode supported by this monitor.  You can bump things down to 640x480 and 2:1 scale most games if you want.  It'll look pretty good, but it won't have the 100% authentic feel some people really want.

[emuola]

I'm told they work fine and look alright.  The remaining CRT monitors on the market are pretty cheap in general, but they'll get the job done.  Late 90s-early 2000s seems to have been when you could actually get "good" CRT arcade monitors, mostly from Japan.

Be aware that model really is "more like a computer monitor".  It won't do native arcade modes at all.  It's basically just a 29" PC monitor in a standard arcade mounting frame.  The dot pitch is a bit coarser than a normal PC tube, so 640x480 should still look OK (it'll get "softened" a bit and not look as harsh at that size as a PC monitor of comparable size would).  You can't use "native resolution" for any classic arcade games on this thing.

On the other hand, plug and play with Windows XP, which defaults to 800x600 - a mode supported by this monitor.  You can bump things down to 640x480 and 2:1 scale most games if you want.  It'll look pretty good, but it won't have the 100% authentic feel some people really want.

Thanks for the info MonMotha Actually I could get the "sister model" (the real tri-sync one) for $100 cheaper. However I understood that I'd eventually end up with problems at least if/when not using Windows/ArcadeVGA? Is this correct? The distro I'm running has a handy tool for calculating the various different resolutions for the x-setup. This is how I've been using the cabinet until now. If I'd want to have the "pixel perfect" resolutions, I'd have to buy the tri-sync? If I run more than one game/games with various resolutions, would they work with the tri-sync?

Sorry this monitor thingy really is kinda complicated although I've tried to read all kinds of tutorials on the net. The pricetag is so hefty that I really want to be sure

[MonMotha]

The other one is 15-31k.  It won't do SVGA (800x600), so you'll have to make sure you set your desktop (whatever that is) to 640x480@60Hz.  Otherwise, it'll probably do everything you want.

IIRC, it has analog adjustments, so you may end up having to futz around with your modelines a bunch to minimize the tweaking required if/when you change video modes (to make it "pixel perfect").  That may be the "trouble" people refer to.  However, worst case, you can just run everything scaled to 640x480, which is what you'd HAVE to do with the other one.

I don't see why you'd have trouble using an ArcadeVGA on it.  It should "just work", but to access the full capabilities, I think you need to install a "Tri-sync" patch from Ultimarc.

[emuola]

The other one is 15-31k.  It won't do SVGA (800x600), so you'll have to make sure you set your desktop (whatever that is) to 640x480@60Hz.  Otherwise, it'll probably do everything you want.

IIRC, it has analog adjustments, so you may end up having to futz around with your modelines a bunch to minimize the tweaking required if/when you change video modes (to make it "pixel perfect").  That may be the "trouble" people refer to.  However, worst case, you can just run everything scaled to 640x480, which is what you'd HAVE to do with the other one.

I don't see why you'd have trouble using an ArcadeVGA on it.  It should "just work", but to access the full capabilities, I think you need to install a "Tri-sync" patch from Ultimarc.

Thanks again MonMotha That was a very good and simple enough explanation for a dummy like me  However I still want to show you something the x-gaming.com website says about these "siblings"
 
"Since we are carrying both this monitor and SVGA 29" CRT alternative, we receive many questions regarding which monitor would be best for a MAME/Computer installation.  While this Tri-Mode can support lower resolutions/refresh rates, it uses a Analog Video Input so if your game displays in one of the alternative 3 modes, you need to physically and manually change the mode on the monitor itself.  This makes it an unlikely option for a standard MAME user.  This Tri-Mode monitor is ideally suited for replacement of an arcade machine which will be set to one of the Three Modes PERMANENTLY"

Is this complete bs or didn't I still get your point completely?

Sorry to be such a s*cker here...

[MonMotha]

That's what I was saying by futz with your modelines.

You can often mess around with the non-visible parts of the modeline (i.e. keep the refresh rate and visible area the same and just "move" the picture around by adjusting blanking and the pixel clock) to, eventually, with a lot of work, end up with a set of modes that all have the visible characteristics you want while sharing a common set of monitor control settings.  This is a pain in the butt.

Then again, YMMV on how well the digital controls "remember" different settings.  The monitor doesn't know exactly what you're feeding it - it really only knows the total line count and sync rates - so if you have several modes that are similar, it may assign them to the same memory.

Also, since the high res digital doesn't even support the low res modes, you'd just have to scale everything up, anyway, so the point is moot.  I guess you COULD doublescan everything, but at that point you're destroying the "scanline perfect" aspect of the signal, so there's little to be lost by just scaling it all to a constant mode, anyway.

I know what my choice would be, but then I frequently am hooking up older boards to my games (mostly oddball dedicated cabinets) that run at 15-25k.

[emuola]

That's what I was saying by futz with your modelines.

You can often mess around with the non-visible parts of the modeline (i.e. keep the refresh rate and visible area the same and just "move" the picture around by adjusting blanking and the pixel clock) to, eventually, with a lot of work, end up with a set of modes that all have the visible characteristics you want while sharing a common set of monitor control settings.  This is a pain in the butt.

Then again, YMMV on how well the digital controls "remember" different settings.  The monitor doesn't know exactly what you're feeding it - it really only knows the total line count and sync rates - so if you have several modes that are similar, it may assign them to the same memory.

Also, since the high res digital doesn't even support the low res modes, you'd just have to scale everything up, anyway, so the point is moot.  I guess you COULD doublescan everything, but at that point you're destroying the "scanline perfect" aspect of the signal, so there's little to be lost by just scaling it all to a constant mode, anyway.

I know what my choice would be, but then I frequently am hooking up older boards to my games (mostly oddball dedicated cabinets) that run at 15-25k.

Ok, thanks again The process of getting the modes ok with te tri-sync sounds really troublesome, so I guess I'll stick to the svga-version. At least it's a new monitor and it's ~8" bigger than my current one Thanks for your great explanations on this complicated matter. You helped me a lot! 

[MonMotha]

Well, pay attention to the second part of what I was saying:

You can't use native modelines AT ALL with the high res version (it doesn't support the 120Hz refresh needed to do it at its 31k minimum scanrate).

You COULD attempt to doublescan them (draw each scanline twice), but that itself is a pretty radical alteration of the image.  In general, you'll just be scaling everything to 640x480p.  You don't have the option of doing low res.

With the "tri sync" low res model, you COULD do native res, but you may have to futz with either your geometry settings or modelines.  You could instead opt to just scale everything to 640x480p, just like you'll end up doing with the high res version, at which point the need for said futzing goes away.

In my opinion, the low res model is more capable for classic emulation.  It provides options you just plain don't have with the high res one, and worst case, you can punt to what you'll end up doing with the high res model anyway.  The only thing you lose out on is the ability to do an 800x600 desktop.

Now, again, if you plan on doing doublescan, the high res digital memory has some merit.  I just don't think you're likely to end up doing that, and there's no real guarantee you won't have to play around with things to get everything lined up perfectly in that situation, anyway.

[emuola]

Well, pay attention to the second part of what I was saying:

You can't use native modelines AT ALL with the high res version (it doesn't support the 120Hz refresh needed to do it at its 31k minimum scanrate).

You COULD attempt to doublescan them (draw each scanline twice), but that itself is a pretty radical alteration of the image.  In general, you'll just be scaling everything to 640x480p.  You don't have the option of doing low res.

With the "tri sync" low res model, you COULD do native res, but you may have to futz with either your geometry settings or modelines.  You could instead opt to just scale everything to 640x480p, just like you'll end up doing with the high res version, at which point the need for said futzing goes away.

In my opinion, the low res model is more capable for classic emulation.  It provides options you just plain don't have with the high res one, and worst case, you can punt to what you'll end up doing with the high res model anyway.  The only thing you lose out on is the ability to do an 800x600 desktop.

Now, again, if you plan on doing doublescan, the high res digital memory has some merit.  I just don't think you're likely to end up doing that, and there's no real guarantee you won't have to play around with things to get everything lined up perfectly in that situation, anyway.

Thank you again for your help MonMotha I start to see the point I'm really sorry for the trouble, but at this stage I realised that althoug the aforementioned monitors are marketed as replacements for 25"/27"/29" ones, for my current cabinet the 29" Makvisions are just too big As you've kindly pointed out, having a tri-sync would give me more options. So, I found this:

http://na.suzohapp.com/monitors/49305600.htm

This *will fit* perfectly and it seems that all the crucial specs are the same as with the 29" tri-sync. I just have to get a price quote from UK for this (should'nt be a problem). I guess everything you pointed out applies also for this baby?

So, thanks you for you help and sorry to be a complete moron here...