Gamecube price drop

[shmokes]

As of today Gamecubes are $99.  There may not be many games for this system, but a lot of must-haves.  That price is worth it for Ikaruga, Soul Caliber, Metroid, Eternal Darkness and Zelda alone.  I hope this helps put Nintendo back on the charts.  I love their systems and their 1st party software.  It just sucks that many of the 3rd party developers are ignoring Nintendo these days.

[DaveMMR]

Nintendo got their comeuppance!  

But I love the Gamecube and while there's a dearth of good quality titles, there's still quite a few gems out there.  By the way out of the three systems I picked GC Soul Calibur II to play with Link - and the controllers not all that bad (though hard core fighters may want an arcade stick).

[said7]

Hmmmm i might have to pick one up for that price

Dont forget Mario Kart is comming out.

[jakejake28]

i wish i woulda waited 2 years ago...
<smacks self>
no i dont

i love my 'cube. only have a few games for it (metroid prime, zelda, ikaruga, supr monkey ball, and supr smash bros.) but viewtiful joe is coming out, and that looks freakin awesome. plus twin snakes.

[SirPoonga]

I want to pick up super smash bros for the cube sometime.  I played it alot ont he n64.

I will probably pick up XIII when it comes out.

Too bad it looks like Nintendo is going the way of Sega.  Sucks, two of the biggest manufacturers of consoles can't keep up.  I still find it sickening to see Sonic on the cube.

* SirPoonga stops and thinks, hmmm, one one hand gamecube on other GBA.  Same price.  Something isn't right....

[jcoleman]

SirPoonga stops and thinks, hmmm, one one hand gamecube on other GBA.  Same price.  Something isn't right....

Particularly when the GBA Player comes with the GameCube now.  I *almost* wish I'd waited...

John

[SirPoonga]

It does?  I don;t see anywhere where the Player comes with the cube.

[jakejake28]

It does?  I don;t see anywhere where the Player comes with the cube.

it does at wal-mart yea, its one of those bundles that nintendo offers, yknow the ones with games and stuff

[Magnet_Eye]

the PLAYER comes with the cube? Hey, I don't want some guy hanging around my house playing my cube all day long. I think I'll take the barebones, and I'LL be the player thank you very much.

 

[shmokes]

Does the gameboy player still come with it since the price drop?  I know it came with it at the $150 pricepoint, but assumed that would be cut out of the deal with the pricedrop.  God, if the $99 Gamecube comes with the Gameboy player you should pick one up now (if you haven't already).

[BombProofPlane]

no the player doesn't come with it anymore

twin snakes isn't coming out till early next year

i was realling hoping on playing through that on thanksgiving as planned but no

[hulkster]

I want to pick up super smash bros for the cube sometime.  I played it alot ont he n64.

I will probably pick up XIII when it comes out.

Too bad it looks like Nintendo is going the way of Sega.  Sucks, two of the biggest manufacturers of consoles can't keep up.  I still find it sickening to see Sonic on the cube.

* SirPoonga stops and thinks, hmmm, one one hand gamecube on other GBA.  Same price.  Something isn't right....

i love nintendo and always have.  as of right now nintendo is still going strong somewhat...but i think that nintendo has its final chance in the console market with this new console coming out in 2005 or 2006...whatever.  but if that console doesnt do well...then i would say that nintendo will just start to lose money considerably and then go to 1st party titles.  hopefully nintendo comes out with its new console with either Zelda or Metroid to establish a good market for adult gamers.  

[pointdablame]

Just a note, the WalMart near me DOES have the cube with the gameboy player for $99.44

So it does come with the player, at least in some stores.

[BombProofPlane]

wow that makes the cube 50 bucks lol

[HeadRusch]

The only GameCube game I even want at this time is that star wars game...and not "really", just in a "well if I had to buy teh system and had to pick a game to plaY'.

Every other game on that system is eitehr a port, thats done better on another console, or its a nintendo specific game..and I pretty much loathe nintendo-specific games.

I think they're starting to realize that they can't just slap mario and Kirby on every game they have and expect it to sell millions.

Considering their big ideas for their consoles are still remakes of games that initially debuted on SNES (!!!), I wouldn't lose any sleep if their consoles disappeared.

[shmokes]

I don't know...Nintendo still seems to innovate pretty well if you ask me.  I don't mean to get into the dreaded console wars but some significant entries in this generation are: Eternal Darkness, Animal Crossing, Metroid (sequel by name, but come'on it's about as far from a 2d platformer as you can get), Smash Bro., 1080 Snowboarding and Mario Party (all from N64, but not decades old franchises like Mario & Zelda), Pikmin, Luigi's Mansion (not spectacular, but nice and innovative).  

Their other titles, while familiar in theme are still more often than not abolutely spectacular and don't generally just stick to a hack-job formula.  Good examples of these are virtually every Zelda game ever made, Mario Tennis, Mario Golf, Super Mario Brothers.

Anyway, I've already said too much.  To make a long story short, Nintendo is still among the most talented game developers in the world.  Their downfall was greed (the tight control they have always wanted to have on the manufacturing process of games, leading them to stick to the cartridge format while Sony made the obvious switch to CD).  

To be honest, the thing I will miss most about Nintendo (considering that they will continue making games even if they exit the hardware market) is their controllers.  They invented the gamepad and Sega copied it.  Then they invented an ergonomic gamepad with shoulder buttons.  Sega and sony copied it (though Sony arguably improved on it).  Then they invented Rumbling gamepads with analog sticks.  Sony copied.   N64 was the first console with four controller ports. The Gamecube controller is the most comfortable, well designed gamepad on the face of the planet (I have small hands, YMMV).  Nintendo has always been supremely interested in the gamer's interface between him/herself and the game.  It would be sad to see them go.

edit:  I just read over all that.  Jeez, I'm a dork.  Don't get me wrong, I admit to being a Nintendo fanboy, but I'm also a PS/PS2, Dreamcast and PC fanboy.  I mean, if good games can be had on a system I want it.  I'm even starting to want an Xbox even though I really hate Microsoft.  They are more evil than Walmart.  Doublefine Productions is XBox exclusive, though, and claim to have no plans to port to PC so before long I will have to buy an XBox.
 

[SirPoonga]

I think they're starting to realize that they can't just slap mario and Kirby on every game they have and expect it to sell millions.

Actually, that is what sells their system.  It isn't the most powerful, doesn't have the best graphics, it's the nintendo software.  I bought my cube for super smash bros, mario sunshine, metroid prime, and zelda.  nintendo fans are always waiting for the sequel.  Metroid is a great reason to get a cube.  Been a LONG time since a Metroid came out.

Just like Sega, Sonic sold the Dreamcast (and all the arcade ports).  It looks like nintendo is heading towards the Sega path.  But the GBA will keep Nintendo alive.

[HeadRusch]

No, my point is that Nintendo is paying the price for resting on its licenses for too long....and not delivering new and innovative softare, but rather seemingly making the same games as before, just graphically updated.  Resting on its laurels, perhaps....

For someone like me, who hates the nintendo licenses, its a tough sell.  I have no special affinity for mario (marketing symbol), or Starfox (marketing symbol) or Link (marketing symbol).....because to me these characters dont represent anything great.   I'd rather have a cart racing game where you threw grenades at other racers, not happy mushrooms or little kirbys....

I'm not saying they're fading away, I'm just saying their reliance upon cutesy characters is starting to alienate them in a world of gamers accustomed to the Grand Theft Auto's and so forth.......
Would you put Metroid up against HALO? I think not.......while its innovative (Metroid), was there alot of game there, or was it more or less just exploring pretty graphics and shooting at bugs...??  
I guess I want more than that out of a FPS.....

But again, thats just me.  Super Smash Brothers was a game I'd buy a gamecube for.....if only they'd replace the characters with something besides plumbers, foxes, and those turtleshell dinosaurs

[tmasman]

I think that is their market though...
They seem to want to market the GC to kids...
Or at least to the people who see enough blood on the nightly news. It's a refreshing break from the blood & gore realism that todays teens seem to crave.  Why do ALL games have to have blood in them to make them a good game? Why can't it just be innocent fun?

This is just my personal ranting... I like playing GTAIII. But I also like getting away & playing simpler games with out the violence. (Hence my newly discovered passion for MAME & the great oldies)

Eh... All that said, I'd still buy a PS2 over a GC. It just has more functionality & a huge library of games available (PS1 & PS2 games).

[vitaflo]

Too bad it looks like Nintendo is going the way of Sega.  Sucks, two of the biggest manufacturers of consoles can't keep up.

How so?  The Gamecube is outselling the Xbox in worldwide sales.  Does Xbox go the way of Sega as well then?

[Frostillicus]

Too bad it looks like Nintendo is going the way of Sega.  Sucks, two of the biggest manufacturers of consoles can't keep up.

How so?  The Gamecube is outselling the Xbox in worldwide sales.  Does Xbox go the way of Sega as well then?

You can't compare GC sales to xbox sales now that the price cut is in effect.  Need to take into account the guys on the sidelines who would never buy a GC but would now - $99 vs $179.  

Also - I've never understood why Nintendo targets kiddies these days.  I'm almost 30, and the NES was a major part of growing up (everyone had it) - the games that I would be into, like Metroid prime and Zelda, look way too...kiddie-like.  You'd think they'd want to adapt them to the late twenties/early thirties generation, a virtually built-in demographic, and they'd sell way more I bet.  Make them more edgy and brutal.  I would buy one, but personally I don't really like how they look (both the case/controller and graphics).  
 

[shmokes]

Would you put Metroid up against HALO? I think not.......while its innovative (Metroid), was there alot of game there, or was it more or less just exploring pretty graphics and shooting at bugs...??  
I guess I want more than that out of a FPS.....

Absolutely.  Metroid Prime is easily one of the best first person shooters ever made.  Not only would I put Metroid up against HALO, but Gamespot gave it a 9.7 rating (coincidentally the same score HALO received) AND named it Game Of The Year, pooling from every game released for every platform (including PC).  They don't do them often, but when they do, Nintendo has a tendency to do FPS right (remember that at the time Goldeneye was in a league of it's own, far surpassing anything even ID had made at the time.
 

the games that I would be into, like Metroid prime and Zelda, look way too...kiddie-like.

Really...these comments are obviously coming from people who have never played Metroid.  The Gamecube is worth $99 to gain access to this game alone.  I recommend picking one up.  
And Frosty, given what you have said about the importance of artwork I suspect that after an hour of playing Zelda you would no longer be turned off by the kiddie style.  I know I was.  In fact, I don't know if any of you saw the original Demo Nintendo released of Link and Ganon in a sword fight, but it was really dark and the graphics were phenomenal.  A year later Nintendo announced that they had thrown all that out and started from scratch with the cartoon look and I was appalled.  I hated the look right up until I played for a bit and as much as a part of me still wishes they had given us the grown-up version, I cannot deny that this game probably has the most brilliant art direction of an game in history.  And it's a fantastic game (though gameplay-wise nothing groundbreaking like Ocarina of Time was).

But hey, Nintendo is a little late to the grown-up party, but at least they're trying now      Eternal Darkness is brilliant and it's a 17+ game.  And BMX XXX for the Gamecube went uncensored, while Sony wouldn't let Acclaim put the nudity in the PS2 version (not that anyone would want to play that pile of tripe with or without naked boobies).  Maybe there's still hope for them to get their act together.

The biggest problem for Nintendo is the association their name has with kids.  It makes it so the 3rd parties won't publish adult games for the platform which creates one of those vicious cycle things.  Think about it...how many adult games does Sony themselves publish.  Not too many.  They all rely on third parties.  I think Nintendo has realized for the past five years that they made a misstep, but it's difficult to control mindshare.   Blah blah blah.

Sony kicks ass too.  Can't wait for the PS2 with built in TIVO next year.

[SirPoonga]

Too bad it looks like Nintendo is going the way of Sega.  Sucks, two of the biggest manufacturers of consoles can't keep up.

How so?  The Gamecube is outselling the Xbox in worldwide sales.  Does Xbox go the way of Sega as well then?

Meaning they've been dropping their price like Sega did.  

I think the Xbox will gain the number 2 spot.  They have awesome games and designed the system the way one should have been designed.  4 controller ports and online play.  Gamecube sucks for online play, there just isn't much for it.  That's where the gaming industry is going.

Too bad you won't see the Conker sequel on the Cube.  I want an Xbox just for that game when it comes out.  I still play Conker on my N64.  One of hte best games ever made.  I own all the Rare games for the N64, they all rule!.

[vitaflo]

You can't compare GC sales to xbox sales now that the price cut is in effect.  Need to take into account the guys on the sidelines who would never buy a GC but would now - $99 vs $179.  

I didn't actually.  The GC was outselling the Xbox worldwide before the pricecut.  And I think the Xbox is a great console, I own one myself, I just find the Gamecube "doom and gloom" to be pretty funny when the Xbox is actually in a worse position right now.

[DaveMMR]

Would you put Metroid up against HALO? I think not

Comparing Metroid and Halo isn't really fair considering their two significantly different types of games.  Halo is more about shooting and Metroid is more about exploration.  It's like people who argue about Family Guy being funnier than the Simpsons and vice versa.  It's two different types of comedy and what you find funnier is based on what kind of comedy appeals to you.  In the same fashion, if you prefer shooting things, you'll always think Halo is better.  

And I never understood why people get so turned off by by Nintendo's 'kidee apeal'.  Sure, it's a little slow with the adult games but Mario Sunshine and Wind Waker are great games, no matter how they look.  If you're turned off by Nintendo's hardware looks or childish appeal, then that's your decision... buy you're missing out on some really good games.

On the other side of the coin though, the Gamecube's 'must have' games are miniscule compares to PS2 (though IMO it still beats out X-Box's)

BTW when it came down to Soul Calibur II, I picked the GC version over the other two specifically because of Link.  He fits in quite well (and shooting an arrow after a devastating combo is always most gratifying).

[SirPoonga]

You said before the pricecut.  Xbox is more poised to take over the market than Nintendo.  All Nintendo has is traditional Nintendo games like Zelda and Metroid.  They are awesome but the cube itself is lacking.  It is definately geared towards kids.  There's nothing wrong with that, but you can't compete against Sony or M$ then.  If you want to compete against them you need a system that supports DVDs, Audio CDs, and at least 5.1 surround.  None of which the gamecube can do.  I think the biggest problem with with the cube is not supporting Audio CDs by going to that small form factor.  Next is the fact of no built-in internet connection.

I think Xbox will sell more now that good games are coming to it and more developers are using Live.  Xbox needs Rare to come out with something good for their system.  I figured we'd seen something from them already.  What's the purpose of buying Rare without taking advantage of it sooner.  Their games are always hits.

[shmokes]

I think the "doom and gloom" is more of an intuition.  Nintendo is in a tough position.  As much as I love them (obviously) they're losing market share.  They just posted their first loss since they went public in 1966 or 67.  They're losing market share and losing it fast.  Obviously Sony is the primary cause, but Microsoft doesn't "feel" in trouble.  It feels to me like the public allowed Microsoft to give it a go, to see if they were going to do their homework and get stuff right.  They came through alright with a well designed (if god-awful ugly) system and they seemed to take it seriously.  I think the general public now thinks, "Okay...X-box is a player."  Or at least they built enough mindshare where people know what an X-box is.
Mindshare isn't a problem with Nintendo.  There isn't a person above five years old in America that doesn't know what a Nintendo is.  Nintendo has a whole different battle to fight which is that people know all about Nintendo and are still choosing not to buy their system.  Given their name and experience they should be slaughtering Microsoft (and Sony for that matter) and they're not.  
That's writing on the wall, my friend.  But I love them so much, that I hope their missteps aren't fatal.  They're the best software development house in history (and currently retain that title).  Their hardware development is consistantly groundbreaking.  They don't deserve so much trouble over a few years of greed and miscalulation of the demographics.  Even when they got greedy about manufacturing the quality of their games has never dipped.  

[Bomber]

It really saddens me to see Nintendo have to do this, and I hope they can get back to where they belong at the top of the video game industry. But its great news for anyone who doesn't own one yet. Go and buy one - you won't be disappointed.

Here in NZ, the game stores probably have about 7 or 8 PS2 games and 4 or 5 Xbox games for every GC game. Most people I speak to over here laugh it off as a "kiddie console" even though they have never played it. The press coverage that PS2 and Xbox get compared to GC is overwhelming.

The cube may not have as many games as the other consoles, but the GC-only games (Metroid Prime, Zelda, Super Monkey Ball etc) more than make up for it. I will take quality over quantity any day.

I also think they made a big mistake going for the smaller form factor. The cube looks great, but CD/DVD support would have added a lot of value to the console for a lot of people.

[hooded_paladin]

I have a Gamecube.  When you like the nintendo games of the last console, you have to get the next.  That's Nintendo's strength, the games.

Just recently, Beatmania IIDX has compelled me to want a PS2.  There are a whole lot of must-have games for PS2, but not that many exclusives.  A lot, though.  I say it really is the leading system.

X-Box I couldn't care less about.  If you want to play Halo, just buy some other FPS for the PC.  And what ELSE do you want?  Not very many exclusive must-have games either.

I don't think it'd be bad if Nintendo went the way of Sega.  Their consoles don't sell that well, but their games are good.  Although they do make a killing off the Gameboy.

(I have two titles for the gamecube   and I'm far away from having the money to get a PS2 and beatmania setup   .  Darn junior year ... no time to get any more money than $5 a week allowance.  You try buying games / arcade controls for that. )

[SirPoonga]

X-Box I couldn't care less about.  If you want to play Halo, just buy some other FPS for the PC.  And what ELSE do you want?  Not very many exclusive must-have games either.

Conker!  Not sure of the release date off hand

[shmokes]

Psychonaughts.  I don't know when the hell it's going to be released, but it's made by Tim Schafer who left Lucasarts to form his own company, Doublefine Productions which is an X-Box exclusive company.  While at Lucasarts he made Grim Fandango, Full Throttle and Day of the Tentacle.
My purchase of an X-box will largely coincide with the release of Doublefine products for it.

[Frostillicus]

shmokes:  Yes I have seen and played those games and I'm just not impressed, artwork or otherwise.  I especially didn't care for that star wars rogue game everyone was so gungho about.  I thought it was quite boring.  And let's face it the controller just sucks.  Felt like I was shaking my own hand.  I don't understand why Gamespot gave Metroid prime a 9.7 - maybe compared to _other_ nintedo games it's warranted.  Maybe they were trying to make up for the years of nintendo absence from any top-lists.  I am a die-hard xbox fan, obviously - playing HALO in 5.1 is heads and shoulders better than some bugsquashing FPS where the only link to its past is it's name (metroid).  And why would I want to be some little elfish char when I can be SPAWN???  

Look at the games that are on xbox - HALO, Knights of the Old Republic (probably Dantooine is the best graphics I've ever seen on a console), counter-strike, splinter cell 2, others.  True Crime? not sure on that one.

The fact is that when a good game comes out and doesn't have exclusivity on any one console, the xbox version is always the best.   best graphics, best sound, best downloadable content. Look at Max Payne, Splinter cell, Soul caliber 2, Madden 2004, Tiger woods 2004, etc etc etc.  

IMO, nintendo should just focus on their handheld market- clearly the leaders there.  I'm just not into portable gaming (though I did have that football game in the 80s  ), otherwise I'd get an SP.  And there's that adapter for playing GBA games on GC.  Something inherently wrong there - if you are using your SNES quality games to try to hike up sales of your modern console, something is definitely wrong.  Alas, I liked Nintendo, but I pray they have a dignified passing when they go.  

[shmokes]

Bah...if you don't like it, fine.  That's your cup of tea.  But Gamespot wasn't alone.  I'll eat my hat if you can find one publication (unless it's an Xbox exclusive publication) that didn't give Metroid a perfect or near perfect score.  These guys didn't all get together and plot a pity award for Nintendo.  That might be a hint to you that the general distaste you have for Nintendo might skewing your ability to think objectively.  Xbox is obviously a nice system (and it should be, considering how late they came to market and the cost of the system). I want one, and will own one eventually.  Brand loyalty is retarded.  I'm loyal to Nintendo to the extent that the products I buy from them kick ass.
And the reason you would want to be a dorky little elf instead of Spawn is because every Zelda game ever made has been among the best games available while every Spawn game, in spite of the bad-ass license, has been utter crap (unless there is a new one I am unfamiliar with in which case, sure, I'd like to be spawn -- in addition to, not in place of any other good game, elf or otherwise).  But if I bought games based on the coolness of the license I'd have a library of crap from Acclaim and Titus like Superman or The Matrix or Hulk.
Don't ditch your Xbox, just broaden your horizons.  Or don't.  Whatever.

[DaveMMR]

The fact is that when a good game comes out and doesn't have exclusivity on any one console, the xbox version is always the best.  best graphics, best sound, best downloadable content.

Not quite always.  EA sports games for example, are only on-line enabled on the PS2.  Some companies are not embracing X-Box Live.  So if you want to face competitors on the internet, the X-Box version should be your last choice.

[Dave_K.]

The fact is that when a good game comes out and doesn't have exclusivity on any one console, the xbox version is always the best.   best graphics, best sound, best downloadable content. Look at Max Payne, Splinter cell, Soul caliber 2, Madden 2004, Tiger woods 2004, etc etc etc.  

Its funny, but with the exception of Splinter Cell (I believe), the above games you mentional all have the same graphic quality (all lowered to the inferior PS2 platform) so that they look/play the same.  Only xbox exclusives get a bump in the graphic department.

[vitaflo]

They're losing market share and losing it fast.  Obviously Sony is the primary cause, but Microsoft doesn't "feel" in trouble.  It feels to me like the public allowed Microsoft to give it a go, to see if they were going to do their homework and get stuff right.  They came through alright with a well designed (if god-awful ugly) system and they seemed to take it seriously.  I think the general public now thinks, "Okay...X-box is a player."  Or at least they built enough mindshare where people know what an X-box is.
Mindshare isn't a problem with Nintendo.

In the public's eyes, you're right, Nintendo is losing market share mainly because of the trend in "mature" (I use that term loosely) gaming today.  Though I would argue that Nintendo's still makes the best quality games in the biz overall, reagardless of how they look.  Obviously the general public is more interested in style over substance however.

From a business standpoint, Xbox is a total failure.  MS has lost over $1.8 Billion on Xbox so far.  Nintendo has made $1.6 Billion on GameCube thus far.  That's one thing Nintendo does well, is make profit.  Believe it or not, Nintendo64 made more money over its lifespan than the original Playstation did, even though it sold less.

It's obvious MS is going to stay a player simply through mindshare and the fact it can stand to lose billions and billions of dollars to try and control the home entertainment area (lets not kid ourselves, that's all they really want, gaming is just their way in to do it).  Any other company would have been DOA already.

I think Nintendo will be fine as long as it keeps making a profit, since that seems to be mostly what they care about.  With the bad financial news for them recently, I'm pretty sure they'll get a kick in the butt to try to gain some of that back instead of resting on their laurels like they have been.

[shmokes]

Oh yeah...and Knights of the Old Republic sucks.

edit: Actually, it looks like it's really good.  I haven't played it.  I just don't like online RPG's because of the enormous time investment they require.  

[DaveMMR]

By the way I think it'd be fun to add some salsa to this topic's taco by mentioned that Nintendo reported their first profit loss since going public in 1962.

Here's a link: http://www.gamespot.com/all/news/news_6076336.html

Ironically, the day before it was announced that GC sales had quadrupled

Here's a link to that: http://www.gamespot.com/all/news/news_6076294.html

[Frostillicus]

Bah...if you don't like it, fine.  That's your cup of tea.  But Gamespot wasn't alone.  I'll eat my hat if you can find one publication (unless it's an Xbox exclusive publication) that didn't give Metroid a perfect or near perfect score.  These guys didn't all get together and plot a pity award for Nintendo.  That might be a hint to you that the general distaste you have for Nintendo might skewing your ability to think objectively.  Xbox is obviously a nice system (and it should be, considering how late they came to market and the cost of the system). I want one, and will own one eventually.  Brand loyalty is retarded.  I'm loyal to Nintendo to the extent that the products I buy from them kick ass.
And the reason you would want to be a dorky little elf instead of Spawn is because every Zelda game ever made has been among the best games available while every Spawn game, in spite of the bad-ass license, has been utter crap (unless there is a new one I am unfamiliar with in which case, sure, I'd like to be spawn -- in addition to, not in place of any other good game, elf or otherwise).  But if I bought games based on the coolness of the license I'd have a library of crap from Acclaim and Titus like Superman or The Matrix or Hulk.
Don't ditch your Xbox, just broaden your horizons.  Or don't.  Whatever.

I don't think I'll be ditching my xbox anytime soon My horizons were broad, and I was soley disappointed. That's the point.  3-4 so-called 'great' games does not justify buying the system.  And please don't compare Spawn to Hulk or Superman - that's like apples and oranges - Superman and Hulk had their _own_ games (and quite crappy ones at that), whereas Spawn is a char in a proven, existing game.  I wasn't comparing spawn in his older games context...let's not go there (Adventures of Link anyone?) Though Spawn is getting his own game soon for xbox, which could conceivably kick ass, for now he's on SC2.  

Nintendo released their system what, like a month before the xbox - claiming to be a direct competitor when they couldn't even hope to match the xbox in features/power.  It's not like MS didn't talk about what they were gonna do for years beforehand.  The others had time to upgrade.

I just don't see how people can honestly look at the market now, analyze the future offerings for the next year and still claim the GC is going to be a contender.  Please post specific articles for reference - I'd like to see something real other than quotes like "MS has lost over $1.8 Billion on Xbox so far.  Nintendo has made $1.6 Billion on GameCube thus far."

[DaveMMR]

Please post specific articles for reference - I'd like to see something real other than quotes like "MS has lost over $1.8 Billion on Xbox so far.  Nintendo has made $1.6 Billion on GameCube thus far."

Someone already did...
scroll two posts up.

3-4 so-called 'great' games does not justify buying the system.

I wasn't comparing spawn in his older games context...let's not go there (Adventures of Link anyone?)

Not for nothing though, I think X-Box (a system I own, so this is not a fanboy rant) has fewer 'must own' games than the Gamecube (not including multi-platform titles).  And 'Adventure of Link' was never considered a bad game -- just a departure that wasn't as good.  If you want a bad Zelda game check out the CD-I offerings.  

Nintendo released their system what, like a month before the xbox - claiming to be a direct competitor when they couldn't even hope to match the xbox in features/power.

If people bought systems based on their 'power' then X-Box would have beaten the PS2 quite handily.  But you should know by now that most consumers base their purchases on anything but system specs.  History has taught us otherwise.  

Oh and competitors usually can't hit the brakes and change their hardware on the drop of a hat.  That especially angers programmers who try to insure there's at least a couple of games out when the system is launched.   And I'm pretty sure MS was smart enough not to release their specs early enough for Nintendo to try and better it.  

I don't know... I like my Gamecube.  I also like my X-Box and I also like my PS2.   But nobody's twisting anyone's arm to buy any of those.

[SNAAAKE]

EVERYONE GET A GAMECUBE....NOW ! !
because you MUST play this game right here ! !

 

btw,GC is only $70 when you buy a game.

[vitaflo]

I just don't see how people can honestly look at the market now, analyze the future offerings for the next year and still claim the GC is going to be a contender.

What does it mean to be a "contender"?  Scrapping with Sony?  Sorry, but neither MS nor Nintendo will do that.  Both MS and Nintendo will fight for 2nd place the rest of this generation, while Sony sells 5 times what they do.  The Xbox and GC aren't going anywhere, up or down.

[DaveMMR]

EVERYONE GET A GAMECUBE....NOW ! !
because you MUST play this game right here ! !

 

btw,GC is only $70 when you buy a game.

Ho, ho my heart is beating in anticipation for that (even if I do know the whole story).   I'm kinda wondering what cool things Psycho Mantis is going to do with the cube.

[jakejake28]

I just don't see how people can honestly look at the market now, analyze the future offerings for the next year and still claim the GC is going to be a contender.

i haave gc and xbox, and can honestly say my gc has more play time than the 'box. metroid, zelda, animal crossing,  w. viewtiful joe, mario kart, and twin snakes coming out seems like its fairly secure. my box is good for halo and mgs2:substance, but thats where it really ends.

ah, who cares. if your only looking towards future offerings mebbe xbox is better, but i prefer to play quality games now!

oh yeah, halo 2 and fable are gonna rock, that is, if they are ever released

[shmokes]

Okay, I understand now Frosty.  You never mentioned anything about Spawn in Soul Caliber.  You just asked why one would want to be a little elf when they could be Spawn.  I agree. Strictly comparing Link and Spawn I must concede that Spawn is the more compelling character.  Unfortunately he has never been in the care of Nintendo, or another developer/publisher that could turn a compelling character into a compelling game.    Still, I'm not so sure about the apples and oranges comment.  Spawn, Hulk, and Superman:  All comic books.  All have multiple video game treatments to their credit.  All of these videogames suck (with the exception of Atari 2600 Superman)   .  Still, this is important.  It doesn't say much when a character's only good appearance in a game is nothing more than a gimmicky cameo in a fighter.  That is not meant as a stab at Spawn, but rather a testament to Nintendo's skill.  Over and over again they take this wimpy little elf and create a game around him that is light-years ahead of anything any other developer has been able to manage even when working with something as cool as Spawn.

Personally i don't see what's so great about Twin Snakes, though.  lt's not like it's a remake of the original NES Metal Gear.  Metal Gear Solid is only a few years old!  If you want to replay it just pop the disc into your ps2 and play.

Anyway, it's a steal. You're missing out.  

edit: Oh yeah, speaking of apples and oranges , l agree that Gamecube did not match x-box in specs despite being released at the exact same time.   Fortunately it debuted at $200 instead of the $300 x-box price point.

[SirPoonga]

Well, I think Nintendo choked themselves with the cube.  It doesn't stand up to today's standards in consoles.  Need to have at least audio cd capability.  I usually play a CD in the PS2 while playing the cube, but I can't do vica versa!!!!!

Also the 3.5" disc is annoying more than anything.  I'm sure it is limiting to developers too.  

[shmokes]

Well, I think Nintendo choked themselves with the cube.  It doesn't stand up to today's standards in consoles.  Need to have at least audio cd capability.  I usually play a CD in the PS2 while playing the cube, but I can't do vica versa!!!!!

Also the 3.5" disc is annoying more than anything.  I'm sure it is limiting to developers too.  

I hate to beat a dead horse, but I must remind you that Gamecube is superior to PS2, the current market leader by about a million miles, in virtually every way.  The only thing the PS2 has on Gamecube is the ability to play DVD's and CD's, both of which are quite periphery considering that DVD players are the fastest selling piece of consumer electronics in history and pretty much everybody in America already has one or five in their homes.  Sure 5" DVD's have more storage capacity than Gamecube, but when have you seen them have to strip a game down in order to port it to the Gamecube?

The only problem Nintendo has, and in a way it extends to their hardware, aesthetically anyway, is a history of appealing to a younger demographic.  

[SirPoonga]

Yeah, but features is what makes a console good too.

Sure 5" DVD's have more storage capacity than Gamecube, but when have you seen them have to strip a game down in order to port it to the Gamecube?

Yes

[shmokes]

Yes

I have no response to that  

[SirPoonga]

Hehe.  I'm sure a game wasn't developed the way a developer wanted because they had plans to put it on the cube along with other systems.  I've heard of games like this.  I just can't name any off hand.

I'm not saying the cube is a bad system, just they could have done alot better.  I have a cube.  I love it.  But I prefer my DC over it in functionality.

[Frostillicus]

I was reading the older posts and ok it sounds like a bit of Nintendo bashing on my part.  Rough week blah blah.  Apologies all around...

*sigh* Somehow I've gotten a Game Informer subscription (zuh??) and in their latest one they list The Wind Walker the best modern console game ever (out of 50).  Anyone else see this?  Halo was #3.  I forget what was 2.  



 

[vitaflo]

Also the 3.5" disc is annoying more than anything.  I'm sure it is limiting to developers too.  

Well if they need more room, they can always add a second disk.  Resident Evil did this.  Since there were PS1 games that were on 4 discs, I don't really see it as being a problem.

With that said there are stupid devs that don't know how to optimize for the smaller discs.  NFL2k3 and Skies of Arcadia had sound that was more compressed than their counterparts.  But for 99% of the games the space isn't a problem.

One other thing the smaller disks do is give almost instant access time.  There are virtually no loading screans on the GC.  A game like Metroid Prime couldn't be done the same way on Xbox or PS2 because of the fast loads times on GC.

I also think you overestimate the importance of CD out on the other systems.  I think there's a case for DVD playback, but certainly not CD out.  That's not a consideration people take into account when buying a system.

[SirPoonga]

Wow, you work for Nintendo.  That's a load of marketting BS!  

Smaller discs do not mean faster load times.  Of course you can use current games as exaamples that the disc size is big enough.  But you weren't in any meatings for that company discussing on how to limit the game to fit on the disc!  That format makes it tougher for developers, not end users.

Multiple discs work great for story based games.  But for other genres it just isn't possible.  Plus multiple discs are extremely annoying.

Maybe playing a CD isn't important to you.  But I know many people who complain that they wish the cube would play CDs, including me.

[hooded_paladin]

they do not necessarily load data faster, but load times aren't ever very long at all for most cube games.  Nintendo does a good job of keeping down load times, for the most part.

[SirPoonga]

Right, Nintendo is good at load times, but it's not due to the CD size.

[vitaflo]

Wow, you work for Nintendo.  That's a load of marketting BS!  

Smaller discs do not mean faster load times.  Of course you can use current games as exaamples that the disc size is big enough.  But you weren't in any meatings for that company discussing on how to limit the game to fit on the disc!  That format makes it tougher for developers, not end users.

No, I don't work for Nintendo, but I used to be a journalist in the industry, and have several friends who are developers and artists for Sega, Activision and Squaresoft (now Square Enix).  The only time I have ever heard about space problems on GC is when people want to use a lot of FMV, or there is a rather large musical score.  Usually it just doesn't come up.  Most PS2 games would fit on a GC disc actually.

And smaller discs do in fact mean faster load times.  A smaller disc has a much lower seek time than a larger disc, thus on average the load times are faster.  But don't take my word for it, ask any game dev.  This isn't the only thing that makes load times fast of course, but it does contribute to it.

And if you think I'm biased towards Nintendo, try badmouthing Xbox or PS2 sometime.  

[SirPoonga]

No, a smaller disc just means smaller amounts of data can be stored.  Not on load time.  Load time is based on on the drive, not the disc.  As long as the drive of a small disc spins as fast as a drive of a large disc the load times are going to be the same.

Think about it.  Yes, most games probably don't need that much space.  Like I said, basically the story based games need that much space.  

So let's take the same physical amount of data, say enough spirals to go 1" from center.  If the CD spins the same rate for either size data will be read in at the same speed.  Don't think that me putting 30 megs of data onto 3.5" will load faster on my computer cdrom drive that supports the small disc than having that same 30meg on an 80meg disc.  It's the spin rate of the drive that determine read speed.  Hence the whole 1x, 2x,....52x speed drives.  Disc size has nothing to do with it other than maximun amount of data that can be stored.

Don't take my word for it, ask any cd hardware engineer.  I could walk over to Imation and get you a report if you want  Ok, Imation is in White Bear on the north side of Saint Paul, I'd have to drive from Minneapolis  But I know people who work there.

Again, I'm not againt the cube as so much as showing why it doesn;t compete.  And I have to provide this imformation in this post to show the true fact since you got delusional somewhere aobut disc size helps determines speed.

[hooded_paladin]

he is right about seek time

although I'm not an expert, read speed would be determined by how fast the disc can spin and how dense the data is, but seek speed is mostly reliant on the diameter of the disc and the speed at which the laser + lens assembly moves.

If the speed of the laser + lens assembly is comparable, the Gamecube has faster seek time.

But seek time isn't a big deal anyway.  It's a game disc, not a PC.  The data shouldn't be fragmented or loaded often.

[vitaflo]

So let's take the same physical amount of data, say enough spirals to go 1" from center.  If the CD spins the same rate for either size data will be read in at the same speed.  Don't think that me putting 30 megs of data onto 3.5" will load faster on my computer cdrom drive that supports the small disc than having that same 30meg on an 80meg disc.  It's the spin rate of the drive that determine read speed.  Hence the whole 1x, 2x,....52x speed drives.  Disc size has nothing to do with it other than maximun amount of data that can be stored.

Don't take my word for it, ask any cd hardware engineer.  I could walk over to Imation and get you a report if you want  Ok, Imation is in White Bear on the north side of Saint Paul, I'd have to drive from Minneapolis  But I know people who work there.

You're totally right about the speed in reading, all things being equal.  But this is basically true only if the data is all in one spot on the disc.  If the laser has to move, this slows down seek time the further it has to travel.  Listen to a PS2 sometime when it's loading info, you can hear the laser move quite a bit (depending on the game).

Of course converse to this is that data at the outside of the disc can be read faster than on the inside, because at a constant speed, the ouside of a disc is "traveling" faster than the inside, and there's more information to read.  Thus one could say that in certain situations the bigger discs could have a faster access.  This is another trick that Nintendo uses, they read their disks from the outside in, instead of inside out like a CD player.  I believe the Xbox does the same.  Not sure about Playstation.

I'm not trying to get into an arguement or anything, I'm just saying what I've been told from people who have made games for the GC, and what I know about CD tech from my past experience.  If the guys at Imation say I'm wrong I'll gladly retract my statement.  To be fair, I'm basically talking about seek/access time.  I know the actually data rate load speads are pretty much the same on all the consoles.  I think I mixed the word access and load together in one of my previous posts, so sorry if that confused anyone.

Funny you meantion Imation by the way, I used to work there about 5 years ago.  I didn't know you lived in Minneapolis.  Know any good places around here selling used arcade games (I'm in Maple Grove)?  

[shmokes]

I could be full of crap here, but here are a couple of purely theoretical things I'll put on the table that I'm pretty much just pulling out of thin air:

1- All things being equal (which they very well may not be) the Gamecube disc would spin faster than the 5" disc simply because it's smaller.  I mean, simply, that it takes less energy to spin a 3.5" disc than a 5" disc so it would be ultimately be possible to make a faster spinning 3.5" drive than a 5" drive.  I suspect that, when other factors are included into the equation this advantage becomes moot, but I digress...

2- Also, and this seems somewhat more plausible to me, though maybe imperceptible, the Gamecube disc should, given the same amount of energy, spin up faster than either of the others.

I'm not sure why I'm even throwing those out since I lean toward neither of them making any appreciable difference, but I don't know...one thing I do know is that Metroid is, for all intents and purposes, one gigantic level.  There is no (edit: intrusive) loading whatsoever, not before you get to the title screen, not between areas in the game; it is massive.  It probably has more to do with extremely talented developers than the hardware, but who knows.  The Soul Reaver games kind of pulled this off for the dreamcast, though not as well, and it has a 5" disc.

Whether it's the hardware or aa bunch of software coincidences, though, load times are generally (but maybe not always) lower (or non-existant) for Gamecube games, especially gamecube exclusive titles, than for their X-box or Playstation counterparts (or similar games for those platforms where Gamecube exclusive titles are being compared).

I got thinking, though, and one place where the size of the disc might prove important (or should be important if Nintendo hadn't skimped on sound hardware) is with 5.1 surround sound.  Even if Nintendo had seen fit to include dolby digital hardware the 1.5gb disc might prove somewhat limiting.  Pro Logic II is surprisingly robust, but it's ain't DD 5.1.

Maybe the disc capacity still would be fine, though.  How many PC games have you seen that were released on more than two CD's (slightly less capacity than a GC disc)?  A few adventure games or RPG's.  That's just about it.  I think capacity for the gamecube discs is mostly a non-issue.  I really like them.  I have a CD wallet for gamecube games and it's a little smaller than a fat-boy ice creame sandwhich.  Kinda cool.  

[SirPoonga]

Ok, enough about the CD sizes

Doesn't make that big of a difference:)  I just wanted to note that the smaller size will limit what someone wants to do if they want to make something for all platforms.  Once in awhile a developer will make a seperate build for another machine (like splinter cell) if the company has the money to maintain that.

With all said an done, the gamecube is a very good system.  It just is trying to compete in a market it is not designed for.


Yes,being able to play an audio CD could be a deciding factor.  Though with the price now not as much as one.  Who's the target market for any console?  low to mid 20s.  The cube is designed for kids.  Either way look at who is going to be buying the systems.  Parents or college kids.  Both of which don;t want to spend that much money.  And for college kids dorm space is a premium.  Having something do more than one thing at once is highly valued.  My system watches tv, dvds, listen to music, everything on her computer.  It has a 21" monitor which is great for an all in one system in a dorm room.  She wants a dedicated dvd player and a TV sometime but doesn't have the room.  Now think about the dorm kid who plays console games.  Having something that does it all will out sell anything else.  That's partially why the xbox and ps2 do better than the cube.  It's knowing who the target market is and designing the system for that market.

The cube is designed for kids and it shows.  It has limited features compared to the systems designed for the main gaming community.  It doesn't make it bad, it just means they shouldn't compare themselves to the other systems because they are not targetted to the same audience.

[Frostillicus]

The cube is designed for kids and it shows.  It has limited features compared to the systems designed for the main gaming community.  It doesn't make it bad, it just means they shouldn't compare themselves to the other systems because they are not targetted to the same audience.

What he said.

And about the CD/spin speeds - If you take 2 discs, one 3.5in wide, another 5 in wide, and get them spinning at the same RPM's, the bigger disc will obviously be moving at a higher velocity the further you get to the edge.  More area for the disc to travel compared to the 3.5in.   I don't know the precise theories behind CD/DVD readers and compensating read speed in relation to the location on the disc (because the disc is travelling much slower near the center...)  

Now what does this have to do with the previous discussion?  I don't know.  Just felt like throwing some of the last bits from my college days out there before it evaporated completely in a haze of malted hops.

[vitaflo]

That's partially why the xbox and ps2 do better than the cube.  It's knowing who the target market is and designing the system for that market.

I think all 3 systems are designed for their market and do a good job with their market.  As you said the cube skews younger, thus it's parents buying the console a lot of the times, and most parents are more concerned about price than performance or games.  I think Nintendo knows their audience well.  And as you said, so do MS and Sony with the kids in the dorms, etc.

I also agree it's hard to compare, based on the relative market each is trying to go after.

[DaveMMR]

There is no (edit: intrusive) loading whatsoever, not before you get to the title screen, not between areas in the game; it is massive

I just noticed you edited it to "Intrusive" because I was about to say that there is loading in between levels.  If you ever notice a door hesitating slightly before opening, that's the system loading.   I think it happens during the elevator sequences as well.    But still... a great number on GC games load quite well.

And speaking of disc size, there was one game that was released for all systems that had to be split between two discs for the GC (I think it was Enter the Matrix).   I think having to switch discs is the least of ETM's problems anyway.

[Edgedamage]

It comes down to this if the console you own makes you happy then who cares what anyone else thinks. I have owned a dreamcast / SNES / genesis with cdrom / ps1 / ps2 / cube / gameboy / GBA / intellivision. Would like a xbox but am too cheap. They are all fun and each has big fan base. In a perfect world consoles would be like DVD players all made to do the same thing so the gaming companys could just make games. Not sink millions into r&d into a console that has a shelf life of a few years. I think sega has the right idea make games for everyone else and not make hardware.
PS. I found a NES in the trash yesterday it works great and it was one of the few consoles I did not own.

[SuperBoB2Turbo]

I personally don't understand why so many people care who's "winning the console wars." As long as Nintendo keeps making a profit (and they're pretty good at doing that) I'm kind of glad they're NOT in first place, because that means whenever they release another one of their GREAT games, I can mosey on down to the store and pick it up, not worring about reserving a copy or them being sold out.  What do I care if the majority of gamers are idiots and are missing out on some of the best video games made.

I think what you're seeing is the video game industry becoming more like the entertainment industry, in more than just financial size.  Most of the "main-stream blockbuster must see" shows and movies are CRAP.  It's in the lesser known television and movies that you find the real great ones--like MST3K.

jus' my 2 cents.

[zero-one]

In the past 7 years I've noticed a strange parallel between the success of a console and the ease in which games can copied (or the console mod-chipped).

Take the N64 vs PS1 - PS1 wins by a long shot. It was very easy and relatively inexpensive to buy a modchip for the PS1 and make copies on CD-Rs. I haven't heard anyone make cartridge backups but I'm sure it can be done.

Take the current race, GC vs PS2 vs XBox. From what I've read the PS2 is the easiest to modchip and recordable DVDs are becoming cheap. The PS2 has the biggest market share. Conversely, the GC makes it next to impossible to make backups of the games and it has the lowest market share.

Sony seems to win by tolerating some amount of piracy where the others have clamped down. I find it a strange coincidence.  

I'm sure the buyers of consoles have considered the ease of copying games as one of the factors in deciding which console to buy. Maybe Sony understands that and they put just enough copy protection to satisfy the 3rd party publishers. Not a thought.

I want a GC.

[shmokes]

My gut tells me that this is a case of correlation NOT being the same as causation.  I haven't modded any system, but I figure that with the Xbox's harddrive it's easier to pirate games for the Xbox than the PS2 since it can be done right on the console.

Really of the 70 or 100 million or whatever the insane number of PS2 owners is at now...of all those people I'll bet that less than .5% of them have modded their hardware for any reason, whether it be to steal games or to play imports.  

The scenario I find far more likely is exactly the opposite.  70 million or 100 million or whatever people own PS2's versus like 15 million for the next leading competitor.  As someone who wants to research and develop modification hardware, which platform are you more likely to spend time and money cracking?  Obviously the one with the larger userbase so you will potentially sell more mod chips.  The PS2 probably has the most people figuring out ways around its copy protection because it is so successful, rather than being very successful because people are circumventing the copy protections.

Just my gut feeling...

[SirPoonga]

From what I've read the PS2 is the easiest to modchip and recordable DVDs are becoming cheap.

I've read the ps2 is difficult to get hacked stuff going.

I know the xbox is pretty simple. It's basicalyl PC hardware

[zero-one]

I must agree with shmokes - most likely modchip development is based on market size. I just was having a little fun with a different point of view.

On the other hand... Most of the console gamers that I've worked with in the last 7 years have had modded machines. Maybe people working at software development companies are more apt to pirate games. My perception must be warped. Or maybe I was just hanging with the wrong crowd.  

I hope to get a GC for Christmas now that it's within the price limit for your family's gift exhange.

[grafixmonkey]

As of today Gamecubes are $99.  There may not be many games for this system, but a lot of must-haves.  That price is worth it for Ikaruga, Soul Caliber, Metroid, Eternal Darkness and Zelda alone.  I hope this helps put Nintendo back on the charts.  I love their systems and their 1st party software.  It just sucks that many of the 3rd party developers are ignoring Nintendo these days.

Don't forget Monkey Ball!  I love that game!

I will indeed probably be getting a cube soon.  I haven't played Zelda or Metroid or any of those at all.  (only Cube game I've played is Monkey Ball.)  and I was a hardcore zelda and metroid fan on snes.

[abrannan]

In the past 7 years I've noticed a strange parallel between the success of a console and the ease in which games can copied (or the console mod-chipped).

Take the N64 vs PS1 - PS1 wins by a long shot. It was very easy and relatively inexpensive to buy a modchip for the PS1 and make copies on CD-Rs. I haven't heard anyone make cartridge backups but I'm sure it can be done.

Take the current race, GC vs PS2 vs XBox. From what I've read the PS2 is the easiest to modchip and recordable DVDs are becoming cheap. The PS2 has the biggest market share. Conversely, the GC makes it next to impossible to make backups of the games and it has the lowest market share.

Sony seems to win by tolerating some amount of piracy where the others have clamped down. I find it a strange coincidence.  

I'm sure the buyers of consoles have considered the ease of copying games as one of the factors in deciding which console to buy. Maybe Sony understands that and they put just enough copy protection to satisfy the 3rd party publishers. Not a thought.

I want a GC.

Which means, by extension that if the Dreamcast were had come out today, it'd be doing great.  The difficulty with copying DC discs came in the initial reading, not in the playing (didn't require a chip).  Broadband and p2p apps weren't big enough when the DC was around to allow for it to take off.  But now it only takes one fool with a GD-ROM to make a DC game available to everyone.