Skyward Sword Ending Discussion (spoilers obviously)

[Howard_Casto]

I was kind of slow finishing this one, but I wanted to take my time and enjoy it.  Anyway, I think that overall the ending was pretty good, but plot wise I noticed a few oddities. 

1.  Whoever wrote this doesn't seem to understand the concept of time travel. 

There are more than one instance in the game where you are asked to "hurry back in time before it's too late" Well that isn't how time travel works!  You can sit on your butt for 20 years and still go back "just in time" because it's a TIME MACHINE.  Also we know immediately that the evil doers plans have failed once they go back in time because here in the present, things are still normal.  It's thousands of years later, if the bad guy had succeeded then the world would instantly change and Link and his friends would be screwed.  Also Granny Impa should instantly know who Link is and trust him because she's already had a full adventure with him!   I won't even go into the stupidity of the time shift stones and how a Dragon, that is supposed to be immortal, is dead and you have to go back in time to revive him.    This is why I wish Nintendo would give up on the whole time travel mechanic in their games.... they don't seem to be smart enough to use it right.

2.  Somebody screwed up the final cut-scene or the dialog was changed at the last minute.

Before you jump back to the present Impa says that she will take care of the triforce and that with it's purpose fullfilled it had to be scattered and hidden again.  Jump to the last cut-scene and Link and Zelda are standing in front of the same tri-force that Impa was supposed to hide!  It isn't just a graphical error either as Zelda says in her dialog that she would like to remain on the surface and guard the tri-force.  WTF?


3.  What the heck happened to Fi? 

I mean maybe they changed "I'm gonna die now" to "unending sleep" to protect the kiddies, but the way it was worded it sounded to me that she was waiting for the next hero.  Well she hasn't been in any of the other Zelda games.  Again, this was a screwup... they could have easily worked some self-sacrifice cliche into the script to explain why we never see her again.


Also it seems odd that they didn't lower SkyLoft into it's original position on the ground like they did the goddess temple.  If they did that, and renamed the thing Hyrule at the end, it would have been a nice, tight ending.... as-is it's a little sloppy.

[elkameleon]

End boss was totally forgettable, looked like a cross between akuma and blanka... weak ass ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. Easy too.

[Howard_Casto]

End boss was totally forgettable, looked like a cross between akuma and blanka... weak ass ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. Easy too.

Eh, he wasn't that bad.  I can see the resembalance between those two, but who he's really supposed to look like (and also resembles) is a primative Ganondorf.  He IS Ganondorf btw.... that was what that whole "my incarnation" bit was about.  I thought they did a pretty good job on him.  They basically took Ganondorf with his stupid civil war beard, weasely features and sissified dress and made him manly.

Compared to past Zelda bosses he was farily hard so he isn't "weak ass" by any means.  Quite frankly he's fairly tough in his first battle stance unless you cheat and use a bunch of potions/faries.  Even if you are good at dodging his attacks it takes around 30 hits to kill him, and you don't have 30 hearts  

That being said, I find it funny that his frikkin sword is more of a challenge than he is.

Also I'm not sure what you were expecting.... in most zeldas the last character is Ganondorf, and he's the lamest and easiest boss fight in the whole game.  Compared to that, Demise is a big improvement.

I miss Ganon.... a giant teleporting pig monster always seemed like a more interesting villian to me.

[elkameleon]

I thought that Ghirahim was harder at the end, when you have to hit his sword just right to break it... I don't know how many times I swung wrong and had to start the process over again...

[Howard_Casto]

Heh... you were doing it the hard way. 

You don't have to hit it just right... you simply have to hit it X amount of times before he has a chance to regenerate it.  Going in and flailing left and right as quick as I could worked for me.  Eventually he'll start to guard and occasionally you have to switch to up/down hits but as long as you strike as fast as possible it's fairly easy.  Mind you you'll take a hit every now and again, but you have more health than he does. 

[hypernova]

Initially you can swing away, but as you deplete Ghirahim's health, he'll starting switching up the stance as you hit, so you do have to be methodical.

If you want a challenge, go through the game without using the shield.  Especially the Ghirahim battles.

Demise wasn't too difficult if you used a shield.  I used an invincibility+ potion when he got me down to one heart, close to the beginning of the second half of the fight.  It lasted a few minutes, which was enough time for me to learn his attacks.  I managed the rest of the battle without getting hit once.

I thought he was awesome looking.  As HC said, a primitive looking Ganondorf, which is perfectly fitting, I thought.

Ending didn't bother me.  I wasn't looking for inconsistencies, though.  I will when I get there again.  Currently starting Eldin Volcano in Hero Mode.

I took it to understand the time travel thing that as time flows in the present, it is flowing at the same rate back in the past, thus you must "hurry up".  If we're looking to fault a game about "hurry up" and going to the past, we can fault nearly every game that isn't on a strict timer.  You're always able to lolligag around doing side quests on most games, even when the evil villain has their finger on the proverbial button for the end of the world.  (Which you can still do in this as well).

Whoever wrote this doesn't seem to understand the concept of time travel.

To be fair, who exactly does?

[Howard_Casto]

Initially you can swing away, but as you deplete Ghirahim's health, he'll starting switching up the stance as you hit, so you do have to be methodical.

If you want a challenge, go through the game without using the shield.  Especially the Ghirahim battles.

Demise wasn't too difficult if you used a shield.  I used an invincibility+ potion when he got me down to one heart, close to the beginning of the second half of the fight.  It lasted a few minutes, which was enough time for me to learn his attacks.  I managed the rest of the battle without getting hit once.

I thought he was awesome looking.  As HC said, a primitive looking Ganondorf, which is perfectly fitting, I thought.

Ending didn't bother me.  I wasn't looking for inconsistencies, though.  I will when I get there again.  Currently starting Eldin Volcano in Hero Mode.

I took it to understand the time travel thing that as time flows in the present, it is flowing at the same rate back in the past, thus you must "hurry up".  If we're looking to fault a game about "hurry up" and going to the past, we can fault nearly every game that isn't on a strict timer.  You're always able to lolligag around doing side quests on most games, even when the evil villain has their finger on the proverbial button for the end of the world.  (Which you can still do in this as well).

Whoever wrote this doesn't seem to understand the concept of time travel.

To be fair, who exactly does?

If you mean that he starts changing the angle of hsi sword to block while you are hitting him, yeah, that's what I meant by the "somtimes you'll have to switch to up/down" bit.  You don't have to hit the exact angle and if you are striking fast enough you can hit his sword at the wrong angle and correct yourself before he moves away.  You have ot strike insainley fast though... maybe you guys were just doing it too slowly?  (My arms hurt after the battle.)

heh... I never use the shield.... it's worthless for boss battles.  Demises's second stage attacks are far easier to dodge than to block.

I wasn't referring to game mechanics, I was referring to plot points.  Yeah they always let you run around in a game at "the last minute" but that's because it's a game.  So long as the story doesn't say something stupid that's acceptable.  Even if time is flowing at the same rate, the changes made in the past would still be immediate to those in the present.  You are thinking of Back to the Future time travel, which is in no way based in reality.    Reagardless, the other time travel plot holes, like granny not knowing you and the immortal thunder dragon being dead, are far less forgivable.


Btw anybody noticed that this link looks like Mr. Miyamoto?  He's got the same oddly shaped eyelids, impish nose and quirky, tight smile. 



Oh and while we are at it, what's the difference between hero mode and normal mode?  I haven't messed with it yet so I was curious.  If it's just harder then I'll pass.

[elkameleon]

In hero mode, you cant find hearts anywhere, they dont drop, and you lose hearts twice as fast. So yeah, its basically just harder. It's a good challenge though.

[hypernova]

If you have a heart medal in your pouch (not to be confused with the life medal), you'll still get hearts.  But you don't find one until at least Eldin.  I haven't found one yet.  Probably one of the Goddess Cubes in this area opens a chest in the sky for one.  Beedle doesn't have one for sale.

Eh, regarding the time travel and what's happened in the past and how it relates to the future, it helps if you don't try to wrap your head around it.  So many different schools of thought and possibilities, and since nobody's done it, who's to say what's right and what's wrong, especially when someone from the future goes back and alters it.  So many paradoxes...

[hypernova]

Finished hero mode yesterday.  It is definitely harder in some aspects, but as long as you got some potions, you'll be fine.

Regarding the ending.  I think the Triforce is there because Impa only protected it while she was alive.  Once again, we're dealing with the paradoxes of time travel and such.  We beat the boss in the past, and Impa I assume protected the Triforce in Skyloft or wherever until Skyloft was populated.  Kind of a weak explanation, but it's better than none.  Plus we know the Triforce was in the statue, and the statue is now on the ground, so they might as well have gotten the thing out.

As for Fi, Hylia only created her to help the original hero, i.e. this particular Link, as I'm understanding it.  Another possible explanation is that perhaps she will be utilized again at a later point that's still before all the Zeldas we've played, and then "relieved" of her duty by a future Hylia/Zelda.

[shmokes]

I haven't read any of this thread cos I don't want any spoilers, but I just thought it was funny that I've completed the song and found both the stones and the one-eyed bird statue on Sky Island, and I did all that weeks ago, but I haven't beat the game because my 5-year old daughter was into it and made me promise not to play it without her, but lately she's been pretty much exclusively wanting to pretend we're spies. We make spy gadgets and go about sneaking around corners and killing bad guys. One comical way is that one of us will jump around the corner where the bad guy is to create a diversion and when the bad guy goes after the bait the other one of us stabs him in the back with a spy sword.

So . . . anyway . . . still waiting to finish Zelda. Not sure when I'll get to it.

[knohbody]

I just beat this game about a week ago. I wasn't terribly impressed with the time travel mechanices throughout the game. Was hoping it'd be done more like Chrono Trigger, where you could freely travel in the past and it would effect things in the future.
Despite that, I enjoyed the game, which is why I keep coming back to Zelda. I have found, though, that the series is infinitely better if I fudge the story to match what's already in my head: that each Gannon is a previous Link, corrupted by his lust for power after having the Triforce of courage and the Master Sword taken away from him.
Of course, this stems from my childhood mind making a tenuous connection between the fact that the SNES link is red headed and the OOT of time Gannondorf is as well.

[hypernova]

One comical way is that one of us will jump around the corner where the bad guy is to create a diversion and when the bad guy goes after the bait the other one of us stabs him in the back with a spy sword.

So . . . anyway . . . still waiting to finish Zelda. Not sure when I'll get to it.

Dang...that's quite the make-believe for a 5 yo!  Stabbing people in the back and such.

But, yeah, you're pretty much at the end.  Just finish the last dungeon, which is a take on the sliding puzzle.  Then finish the last few fights.

[shmokes]

Dang...that's quite the make-believe for a 5 yo!  Stabbing people in the back and such.

Yeah, she's a pretty exceptional little girl.

[Howard_Casto]

You are going to love the final bosses.  Mind you it's a Zelda game, so they aren't impossibly hard, but it was at the end that I finally started to appreciate the combat system... it actually won me over again if that tells you anything.

[hypernova]

My favorite boss was Koloktos.  Using those megasized swords against him was just awesome!