so I am starting to play the wii on a 47" 1080 and the sensor blows any idea's?

[northerngames]

so I am starting to play the wii on a 47" 1080 and the sensor blows any idea's?

I breifly looked into this and figured it would just be quiker to ask you guy's what method's parts or brands works best.

from what I can tell it is more of a light immiter then a sensor.

is it best to make stock wireless or but one or make my own setup?

[SithMaster]

I seem to recall someone on this forum using christmas lights or candles as a sensor.  Try something similar or possibly altering the sensor bar you have to reach both ends of the tv.

[lilshawn]

it blows with my 50" too, i placed the sensor on a shelf above the TV (about 2 feet above top of tv) and angled it down slightly with some plasticine, with much (but still not awesome) improvement.

[northerngames]

mine is right on the screen bezel top wich is about 2" above the screen edge top.

 and sitting on the coach with the screen and sensor facing me it's just crap after 5-6 feet.

jittery or non responsive and the gun games are way off. 

[lilshawn]

plasmas and LCD's put out way too much infrared radiation, you also have to adjust the sensitivity in the options too... mine is set to 2.

it would help if the LED's in the sensor bar where bigger/brighter. maybe one of those aftermarket ones might be better... or build one.

[shmokes]

Candles do work reasonably well. But really? That's not a serious option.

[northerngames]

yeah I got enough gaming shrines as it is  

for some reason the last day's of osama picture with the wii comes to mind too 

[wizkid32]

A.  What do you mean by "blows"?  Works poorly?  Same problem.

B.  The new wireless sensor bars work quite well.  Better, in fact, than the stock one.

C.  It is a set of 4 infared LEDs with specific placement.  The Wiimotes track this to produce motion data.

[northerngames]

A. yeah same thing to me

b. what new one by who?

c. can they be spaced out?

[shmokes]

Nyko made one that got pretty phenomenal reviews, but it looks to be discontinued. You can still find it at some sellers, but it seems pretty expensive to me.

[Howard_Casto]

A. yeah same thing to me

b. what new one by who?

c. can they be spaced out?

Ok a bit of a primer might be in order.

1.  The bigger your tv, the further away you are supposed to be from it to play the wii.  For a 47 inch you are looking at 10-12 feet.

2.  The spacing of the leds are pre-determined and are used for distance tracking and such.  To alter them would alter how the games play somewhat.  That isn't necessarily a bad thing BUT understand that if you were to spread the ir leds further apart you would have to stand even further back from the tv.  So spacing them out is not going to solve your problem.

3.  If tracking is the issue then you probably have ir interference somewhere in the room.  Is the tv in front of a window?  Are there lights on behind the tv when you are playing?  You should play your Wii in a rather dimly lit room because all incandescent bulbs let off IR light.  So does sunlight btw. 

4.  There are tons of options out there in terms of replacement bars.  You can build one yourself though.  Go on ebay and buy a package of ir leds.  Now go to a wii hacker site to find out the spacing and position of a regular wii sensor bar.  Just double the led count... it should help.  Then a resistor (if needed... depnding upon the amount of leds) and a battery and you are all set.

5.  This is a pretty obvious one but a lot of people don't think of it.  The sensor bar should be slighty in front of the tv or at the very least in-line with the front of the tv.  If not the ir light will be blocked at odd angles or if your tv is up real high.

[lilshawn]

2.  The spacing of the leds are pre-determined and are used for distance tracking and such.  To alter them would alter how the games play somewhat.  That isn't necessarily a bad thing BUT understand that if you were to spread the ir leds further apart you would have to stand even further back from the tv.  So spacing them out is not going to solve your problem.

the program would only think you where closer to the screen if you used LED's spaced further apart.

i wouldn't go so far as to say put one on each corner, but using brighter infrared LED's and spacing them say 20 inches apart, it would definitely work better.

LCD displays and especially plasma displays (being even worse) emit lots of infrared radiation. that's what's screwing with the sensor in the controller. if you don't believe me go into the sensor adjustment page and look, i'll bet you can see a few artifacts being picked up... artifacts=pointer jitter. point the controller out the window on a sunny day, there will be a hundred dots on the screen.

also, something that can affect pointer precision is bad infra red LED's in the *sensor bar. sometimes you can look at them with a digital camera or the camera on your cellphone. sometimes the led's will be dim, which indicates it's not outputting at full brightness, or it will be flashing rapidly off and on.

* yes i know they call it a "sensor" bar but it's really just infrared LED's, there is a camera in the front of the controller that picks up the infrared emitted from the LED's and translates it into pointer movement. This is why you can use other things in lieu of the sensor bar, and why flat panel displays and wiis don't really get together very well.

[wizkid32]

2.  The spacing of the leds are pre-determined and are used for distance tracking and such.  To alter them would alter how the games play somewhat.  That isn't necessarily a bad thing BUT understand that if you were to spread the ir leds further apart you would have to stand even further back from the tv.  So spacing them out is not going to solve your problem.

Not *entirely* true.  Some of the wireless sensor bars spread out the LEDs, at least a little, to increase the playing range.  

Make sure that the sensor bar extends at least 1/4" beyond whatever it is sitting on.

Try the Ultra Sensor Bar.  I have it and it works quite well, though it will go through "AA"s like they are going out of style, if you don't turn it off when you're done. It has an auto shut-off, but it takes 2 hours...  (Link below)  Reasonably priced.  $15 at Walmart.  $20 everywhere else.

One thing you can try if you buy the above product:  Stack the original on top of the wireless bar.  This worked to help stabilize the cursor on my Wii.  (Must be directly on top, not just above the other.)

Make sure that the bar is not on a reflective surface.  This (in combination with lighting) can disrupt the signal from the bar.

Adjust the sensor bar sensitivity settings in the Wii's "settings" menu.

Give it some time.  It didn't originally work on my 55" setup, but after a little while (and some work) it started to work a lot better.

[Howard_Casto]

the program would only think you where closer to the screen if you used LED's spaced further apart.

i wouldn't go so far as to say put one on each corner, but using brighter infrared LED's and spacing them say 20 inches apart, it would definitely work better.

LCD displays and especially plasma displays (being even worse) emit lots of infrared radiation. that's what's screwing with the sensor in the controller. if you don't believe me go into the sensor adjustment page and look, i'll bet you can see a few artifacts being picked up... artifacts=pointer jitter.

Yes, it would make the wii think you are closer to the set... which means you have to stand further back.  The wii needs to see both ends of the bar at a time for accurate tracking.  That means the closer the leds, the closer you can stand.  Also making the wii think you are closer means you have to move the wiimote significantly more to reach each side of the screen, which is the opposite of what you want on a big screen. 

As for lcds giving off radiation....Sorry man but you are incorrect on this.  LCDs don't give off IR light... it's one of the reasons why lightguns won't work on a LCD tv.  Because the screen is using leds, the light spectrum is very limited.  Now plasma probably would, but not lcds... not unless there is something wrong with your set. 

If you are seeing artifacts on your lcd tv in test mode then what you are seeing are reflections from another ir light source elsewhere in the room.

[hypernova]

I still use the included bar with my 52".  Of course, I've split it in two, and soldered in extra wiring length in between to spread them apart.  There's about 1' of space in between the halves.

I meant to professionalize the look later, but never did.

[lilshawn]

RADIATION and LIGHT are 2 different things.

Is your lcd warm? Yes. Because it is emitting infrared radiation. Is the stove hot? Yes. Because it is emitting infrared radiation. Just because you cant see it doesn't negate its existence.

...in addition to emitting visible spectrum light, they also emit ultraviolet radiation. We are only talking about infrared since that is what is affecting the wii remote, since that is what the camera is sensitive to.

Which is why candles work with the wii remote... in adition to visible light the emit a shitton of infrared radiation. Granted its not neat and fixed as leds are but it works.

[shmokes]

LCDs don't give off IR light... it's one of the reasons why lightguns won't work on a LCD tv.  Because the screen is using leds, the light spectrum is very limited.  Now plasma probably would, but not lcds... not unless there is something wrong with your set. 

Dunno about fluorescent bulbs w/r/t/ IR radiation, but I do know that my LCD (and by far most LCD TVs in existence) are lit with fluorescent bulbs, not LEDs.

RADIATION and LIGHT are 2 different things.

Not exactly . . . I mean, not all radiation is light. But light certainly is radiation. Regardless, IR radiation is light. It's not visible, but it's light. I'm no scientist . . . but I'm pretty sure that's right.

[SavannahLion]

LCDs don't give off IR light... it's one of the reasons why lightguns won't work on a LCD tv.  Because the screen is using leds, the light spectrum is very limited.  Now plasma probably would, but not lcds... not unless there is something wrong with your set.  

Dunno about fluorescent bulbs w/r/t/ IR radiation, but I do know that my LCD (and by far most LCD TVs in existence) are lit with fluorescent bulbs, not LEDs.

FL's emit mostly UV along with whatever light spectrum the excited posphor coating emits. That's primarily why they're ---daisies--- when it comes to fading. I never really got a straight answer about the IR though. One document by Sanken for their CCFL inverter makes it very clear that the CCFL emits IR during cold start which is nearly identical to most IR remotes. But it's unclear (or I don't understand the technical aspects well enough) whether CCFL's emit any IR through the operation. I've never pursued the IR problem because A) I hacked my Wii bar to be a bit brighter and B) my TV is backlight with LED's.

RADIATION and LIGHT are 2 different things.

Not exactly . . . I mean, not all radiation is light. But light certainly is radiation. Regardless, IR radiation is light. It's not visible, but it's light. I'm no scientist . . . but I'm pretty sure that's right.

You're pretty much right. I don't know the extent, but it's believed (documented?) that there are numerous animals that see in a different or shifted order of the light spectrum. Bees are a good example (UVL is visible to them apparently). However, I'm not aware of any creatures that can see IR, but cameras can. That's why it's the lighting of choice at night for those wildlife guys. I could be wrong about the creature thing though, I'm not a zoologist.  

@howard_castro

Check out the forums for theater size screens and the Wii. The Wii remote not working is a common problem. From what I understand, Nintendo kind of had to figure out an average and go with that on the distance between the light points. I notice quite a bit of it is compensated by the size of the screen itself. But as you go bigger and bigger, there seems to be a greater lag time and increased jitter. When you get to the distance these guys are at, the two light points appear as one and the Wii loses some (all?) of the tracking data. You should check out what some of those threads say and see how they turn out.

I just remembered my step daughter also plays the Wii on a theater size screen at school (part of an after school program) and I'm pretty sure the Wii and bar is about half (1/3?) the distance between the screen and player for precisely the same reason.  

[lilshawn]

yesh, i never really thought about moving the sensor to something like down to the coffee table... i'd have to change the orientation from above TV to below, but i guess that would be a decent option if a guy had one of those wireless ones.

[northerngames]

mine seem's to be the opposite.

the farther I go the worst it is I have to get closer to the tv and if I point the wiimote at the center of the screen and move it in any direction just a hair it goes off to the side's of the screen with makes the gun games way off instead of using the sight on the gun I hold it like a merc from aliens down by the waist wich makes mounting them in any gun setup pointless really.

if I go farther back I loose function completly for me it seems the closer I get the better the response but it is all still crap to me so I need to find something better then this for sure.

I had the bar on top of the tv and moved it down on the lower and it seems to help but stiil goofy as hell no matter what I try.

the tv is on the wall so there's nothing behind it.

window does effect it a tad but not really maybe can go an extra 6" back farther but nothing pleasing still.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

Nyko made one that got pretty phenomenal reviews, but it looks to be discontinued. You can still find it at some sellers, but it seems pretty expensive to me.

I have this same unit that I use for occasional Wii Emulator play. I modified mine to run off of USB power, it was literally 4 screws, two solder points, and melting a hole in the back of the case (using the soldering iron).

I haven't tested the functional range, however.

[wizkid32]

Nyko made one that got pretty phenomenal reviews, but it looks to be discontinued. You can still find it at some sellers, but it seems pretty expensive to me.

I have this same unit that I use for occasional Wii Emulator play. I modified mine to run off of USB power, it was literally 4 screws, two solder points, and melting a hole in the back of the case (using the soldering iron).

I haven't tested the functional range, however.

According to the reviews, it was better than the original part.  Mine (different one) seems to be better than the wired one as well.

[lilshawn]

the LED's they used in the original bar seem to produce pretty narrow beam, perhaps swapping them with some wider beam LED's would help. Course one would have to figure out what the original LED was before subbing.

[SavannahLion]

the LED's they used in the original bar seem to produce pretty narrow beam, perhaps swapping them with some wider beam LED's would help. Course one would have to figure out what the original LED was before subbing.

It's pretty well documented what IR range the Wii bar uses. Subbing them out is pretty simple however, I recall the placement of the LED groups is an arc? three pointing forward and the last two angles off to the edges? I dunno, I don't want to Google for that info right now.

[lilshawn]

the LED's they used in the original bar seem to produce pretty narrow beam, perhaps swapping them with some wider beam LED's would help. Course one would have to figure out what the original LED was before subbing.

It's pretty well documented what IR range the Wii bar uses. Subbing them out is pretty simple however, I recall the placement of the LED groups is an arc? three pointing forward and the last two angles off to the edges? I dunno, I don't want to Google for that info right now.

it's just so there is a spread... if you have friends sitting to the left or right they can still pick up the IR's.

[moundy]

I have a projector and a 126" (106" for 16x9 ratios) screen and needed a longer cord or go wireless. I went Wireless and got the Ultra Sensor Bar for $14.?? at Walmart. It takes 4 AA batteries and auto-shuts off at 1hr or 2hr (selectable). It has an adjustable width for the 2 sets of 5 ir leds. The leds are arranged in this direction:


                                                           o o  o  o o      <------ajustable------>    o o  o  o o
                                                          /  |   |  |   \                                        /  |   |  |  \
(oops: similar to the picture post above)


My problem was that the batteries don't last long if you play it for an extended period of time. So I installed an "M" type female dc adapter jack by drilling an appropriate size hole in the battery cover. Opened up the sensor bar to solder 2 wires to the - and + outer connectors. I attached the jack using small alligator clips an little jumper wires so I can remove it an go back to using batteries if I want(probably never). Then I had to get an adapter that will go 6v at less than 500mA.  The design of the pcb is not that great and will try to draw more amps than it needs and probably blowing the leds.  **NOTE** And there's this hidden 500mA 250v fuse attached to the red wire going to the pcb . I found this out the hard way. Radio shack has an ac/dc adapter by Enercell that is an adjustable 1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5/9/12 vdc 300mA adapter that has interchangeable tips in the box for approx. $18. I know it is an expensive route but it does exactly what I need. Plus I've got an adapter that can be used for other things than the Wii if need be.

                                                

[Howard_Casto]

LCDs don't give off IR light... it's one of the reasons why lightguns won't work on a LCD tv.  Because the screen is using leds, the light spectrum is very limited.  Now plasma probably would, but not lcds... not unless there is something wrong with your set. 

Dunno about fluorescent bulbs w/r/t/ IR radiation, but I do know that my LCD (and by far most LCD TVs in existence) are lit with fluorescent bulbs, not LEDs.

RADIATION and LIGHT are 2 different things.

Not exactly . . . I mean, not all radiation is light. But light certainly is radiation. Regardless, IR radiation is light. It's not visible, but it's light. I'm no scientist . . . but I'm pretty sure that's right.

Yeah but the tube is backlighting the leds.  The light doesn't really go past the illumination of the leds.  Regardless flourescent tubes don't give off IR light either.  Well that isn't exactly true, some of the stranger colors might, but not white ones.  There's no sense in arguing over it anyway.  It's an easy test, turn on the tv, put up a completely black screen point a digital camera at it.  See any glow?  Nope you don't... because lcd tvs don't give off ir light. 


You are right that light is radiation, but I'm not sure why would guys would argue over that.  It's just symantics. 

[lilshawn]

It's an easy test, turn on the tv, put up a completely black screen point a digital camera at it.  See any glow?  Nope you don't... because lcd tvs don't give off ir light. 


You are right that light is radiation, but I'm not sure why would guys would argue over that.  It's just symantics. 

if course you don't, it's cause if digital cameras actually picked up IR it would be impossible to take pictures with it. as they stand cameras have filters on the CCD to filter out IR. It's takes a very powerful source of IR to blast through the filter to get it to show up.



now when we photograph this xbox360 and TV with a FLIR camera that IS sensitive to IR radiation, we can see it's emitting LOTS of IR radiation. The wii remote camera, also sensitive to IR, could possibly pick all of this up...

now an easy test would be to heat up a knife or spoon nice and hot on a stove element and see if the remote would track it. the spoon would not be emitting any visible light, but would be emitting IR radiation.

[wizkid32]

Light, heat, IR, those are all radiation.  Period.  Done.  No more discussion!

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

but keep in mind that IR is about as useful a classifier of radiation as is the word "radio" itself.

FLIR measures one range of IR, SWIR measures another, and IR remotes fall in yet another. The whole "IR" field spans 750nm waves up to 1mm waves. All of visible light falls between 390-750nm, a total bandwidth of 360nm. IR spans 250nm, so almost as much range of variations as all of regular visible light.

Different sensors are going to be sensitive to different ranges in the IR spectrum. Of course otherwise 'noisy' sources like flames and CFL bulbs are probably wideband enough to screw with anything.

[lilshawn]

Light, heat, IR, those are all radiation.  Period.  Done.  No more discussion!

Works for me.

Different sensors are going to be sensitive to different ranges in the IR spectrum. Of course otherwise 'noisy' sources like flames and CFL bulbs are probably wideband enough to screw with anything.

Works for me as well.

[wizkid32]

Light, heat, IR, those are all radiation.  Period.  Done.  No more discussion!

Works for me.

Thank You!   

[jammin0]

If you're making your own then I would highly recommend these LEDs:
TSAL6400
http://www.vishay.com/ir-emitting-diodes/list/product-81011/

They work really well with the Wii remotes.

[SavannahLion]

If you're making your own then I would highly recommend these LEDs:
TSAL6400
http://www.vishay.com/ir-emitting-diodes/list/product-81011/

They work really well with the Wii remotes.

Oh yeah,   I forgot about the Vishays. I picked up a ten about six years ago but I selected the wrong frequency. worked great in my IR repeater though.
They sell for about $5 on Digi. http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?x=20&y=23&lang=en&site=us&KeyWords=TSAL6400