Walking Dead: Season 2

[Green Giant]

Anyway, I'll finish out the season, but I doubt I'll watch the next one. 

You'll be back.  They always come back.


Unless you will be to busy watching the Real Housewives of **Insert Crappy City**

[Howard_Casto]

I knew somebody was going to die.  The way they set it up I thought Carl was going to kill the boy in the barn. 


Just like when Otis died, this was poorly filmed/written as well, which pisses me off even more. 


First off, I don't kow anything about Zombie physics or anything but I've got to think that if you had an ENTIRE COW  to eat all to yourself you wouldn't be all to interested in some grizzly old man.  Also why was the zombie not setting there eating the cow?  What did he do?  Go to the trouble of tearing it open eat and single bite and wander off?

Speaking of tearing... I call B.S.  on the whole ripping Dale's chest open with it's bare hands.  Even if you ignore the fact that zombies are rotten corpses and therefore weaker than a normal person, this particular zombie was so weak that it was stopped by a couple of inches of mudd!  You can't rip apart someones stomach without a sharp object anyway.  It's too slick, your hands can't get a grip.  If he had bit into his stomach sure, but not like that.  I think the director had been watching too many Romero movies, which are kind of campy on purpose. 

The character was well-loved and the scene was emotional.... there was no reason to cheapen it with such a lame sight gag.


I officially hate Carl now, not just for killing Dale, but for being a little brat in a world where there's no room for such behavior.  In the comics he is a mature, likeable little boy. (Even if he is a borderline nut job.)  The writers on the show obviously haven't read the comics because this episode gave him nothing but "curious little boy" scenes.  Carl is NOT a little boy..... he's Carl damn it!



Anyway, I'll finish out the season, but I doubt I'll watch the next one. 

In the comics, the books got progressively worse after Dale died.  Considering the show isn't nearly as good as the books, I don't expect much at this point.

I thought the same thing, I thought Carl was going to off the dude. Speaking of that, I think that was a stupid plot point to even rescue that dude in the first place. They have wasted 2 episodes dealing with this guy. What the hell did Rick think he was going to do with him anyway? He saved him, brought him to the farm, wasted medicine and supplies on him, then what?! Kinda dumb.

It kinda sucked about Dale, but he was getting a little annoying at the end anyway. His whole "let him live" speech was a little sappy.

Tell you the truth, I thought Shane was gonna die this episode. I understand on what youre saying Howard about the zombie tearing his guts open, but you have to keep in mind, he is an old man, Im sure that would make it easier to rip through. Not only that, but the zombie has the drive to tear into his stomach, who knows what kind of strength takes to do that. I thought the effect was cool nonetheless. I dont understand how Lori doesnt watch Carl. He went to spy on that randall dude, wandered off encountered the zombie, and almost walked in on Rick killing the dude. Its dumb, he is all over the place. Carol is annoying too. Like I mentioned, the main thing that irriatated me was the whole randall character in general. he isnt pleading his case either, they arent giving him any reason NOT to kill him. He hasnt said that he would denounce his other group, or NOT tell them where they are, or work with them etc.

Nah man, Dale's speech was his finest hour!  That wasn't annoying it's the moral lesson that every fan of the show and the comics should be getting.  These things that Shane keeps saying are the "smart call" are in reality the cowardly and easy call.  You have to always do the right thing, which isn't the smart thing or the easy thing, merely the human thing.  If you survive at the expense of your humanity then there's no point in surviving. 

I'll glady admit that Rick bringing Darrell back to the farm was stupid, but the solution is NOT to kill the guy.  It's just like Dale said, he's probably a bad guy, there are 30 more bad guys back where he came from.  Killing him isn't really going to help their situation, they are already screwed, but killing him would make them immoral people and that's far worse than anything he could do to them, even if he breaks loose and hurts/kills some of them. 

I have no doubt that them saving the kid is going to bite them in the ass.... hard.  But you have to do it, it's the right thing to do.  That being said, why in the hell did they just turn around and go back to the farm with him in the episode before last?  There was a zombie attack sure.... so drive a few more hours down the road and drop him off somewhere else.  The dude just had an iron rod go through his leg... it isn't like he'll make it back to either his old group or the farm anytime soon. 

This is a problem I've had with the comics as well as the show.  Rick is good... but he's also stupid.  Shane is evil... and even more stupid.  The only two smart, moral, people are Dale and Glenn and nobody listens to Glenn. 

[Green Giant]

Nah man, Dale's speech was his finest hour!  That wasn't annoying it's the moral lesson that every fan of the show and the comics should be getting.  These things that Shane keeps saying are the "smart call" are in reality the cowardly and easy call.  You have to always do the right thing, which isn't the smart thing or the easy thing, merely the human thing.  If you survive at the expense of your humanity then there's no point in surviving.  

I'll glady admit that Rick bringing Darrell back to the farm was stupid, but the solution is NOT to kill the guy.  It's just like Dale said, he's probably a bad guy, there are 30 more bad guys back where he came from.  Killing him isn't really going to help their situation, they are already screwed, but killing him would make them immoral people and that's far worse than anything he could do to them, even if he breaks loose and hurts/kills some of them.  

I have no doubt that them saving the kid is going to bite them in the ass.... hard.  But you have to do it, it's the right thing to do.  That being said, why in the hell did they just turn around and go back to the farm with him in the episode before last?  There was a zombie attack sure.... so drive a few more hours down the road and drop him off somewhere else.  The dude just had an iron rod go through his leg... it isn't like he'll make it back to either his old group or the farm anytime soon.  

This is a problem I've had with the comics as well as the show.  Rick is good... but he's also stupid.  Shane is evil... and even more stupid.  The only two smart, moral, people are Dale and Glenn and nobody listens to Glenn.  

Assuming it isn't in the comics, I don't see the kid or his group being trouble on the farm.  Perhaps later down the road they might meet up, and at that point they will still have the kid as a hostage.  Then it could be a problem.

It was probably stupid and I am still shocked he just pulled the leg off.  I was expecting him to shoot the kid in the head and leave.  Ripping it off like that would have crippled randall.  I think if they lock him up for a few weeks and let him go, he won't be able to find his group even if he tries.  However taking randall back made sense after we found out he knew of the farm and the family that lived there.


I do still think there is one more moral ear left in the camp, Daryl.  I find everything he does on the show to be the most sensible while still remaining moral.

There is a line between Shane's ultra-survival mode and Dale's ultra-humanity mode, and the one walking that line so far is Daryl.  My only hope is that he takes over some more and leads them instead of abandoning them.

+1 for Daryl in my book.  

Plus it might even be possible that Daryl makes the first ever transition as an original character in a TV show based on a comic to the actual comic.

[Donkbaca]

I am banking that something happens so that they leave the farm, at least I am hoping so, others it will just turn into some ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- up little house on the prairie.
I think what is going to happen is that Randall's group invades the farm, and then Randall helps them escape, vindicating Dale.  There is no way that Dale dies and ends up being wrong about saving the kid.

It sucks that they killed Dale, he made everything much more interesting, though I did think he was annoying.

I think Darrell has no interest in being a leader, he's a follower, he doesn't like the responsibility of being in charge.  He hasn't shown any inclination of trying to take charge.

[garnerb350]

[Green Giant]

I am banking that something happens so that they leave the farm, at least I am hoping so, others it will just turn into some ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- up little house on the prairie.
I think what is going to happen is that Randall's group invades the farm, and then Randall helps them escape, vindicating Dale.  There is no way that Dale dies and ends up being wrong about saving the kid.

It sucks that they killed Dale, he made everything much more interesting, though I did think he was annoying.

I think Darrell has no interest in being a leader, he's a follower, he doesn't like the responsibility of being in charge.  He hasn't shown any inclination of trying to take charge.

I think that character within Daryl makes for a great leader.

A great leader is not someone who wants to lead but someone who when called to lead steps up to the challenge. 

It is fair to say that Daryl had the most effed up background of anyone on the show prior to the apocalypse, and yet he somehow seems the most stable and normal of all of them barring Glen.



Also, he is a Boondock Saint. 

[garnerb350]

Also, he is a Boondock Saint. 

 

[Donkbaca]

I am just waiting for Gebeet to confront Lori in front of the group so that that they can all see what a that are she is.

[Howard_Casto]

I do still think there is one more moral ear left in the camp, Daryl.  I find everything he does on the show to be the most sensible while still remaining moral.

There is a line between Shane's ultra-survival mode and Dale's ultra-humanity mode, and the one walking that line so far is Daryl.  My only hope is that he takes over some more and leads them instead of abandoning them.

+1 for Daryl in my book.  

Plus it might even be possible that Daryl makes the first ever transition as an original character in a TV show based on a comic to the actual comic.

I like daryl as a character, but unfortunately your logic is flawed.  You can't be "sort of moral" either you are or you aren't.  If you aren't then you've lost.. case closed.  Daryl was going to kill the boy just before Dale got attacked.  Now he didn't... maybe Dale's death will be the kick in the pants he needs to travel back on the straight and narrow, but if he's going to start thinking like that then he's probably too far gone.


Also you guys must have not read the comics a lot... the kid will turn out to screw over the group.  I think that was my point before and Dale's in his speech, bad things are going to happen anyway, so the least they can do is not turn into bad people.  There is no vindication in terms of results... doing the right thing is it's own reward.  If you are expecting one then you are doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

[Green Giant]

I do still think there is one more moral ear left in the camp, Daryl.  I find everything he does on the show to be the most sensible while still remaining moral.

There is a line between Shane's ultra-survival mode and Dale's ultra-humanity mode, and the one walking that line so far is Daryl.  My only hope is that he takes over some more and leads them instead of abandoning them.

+1 for Daryl in my book.  

Plus it might even be possible that Daryl makes the first ever transition as an original character in a TV show based on a comic to the actual comic.

I like daryl as a character, but unfortunately your logic is flawed.  You can't be "sort of moral" either you are or you aren't.  If you aren't then you've lost.. case closed.  Daryl was going to kill the boy just before Dale got attacked.  Now he didn't... maybe Dale's death will be the kick in the pants he needs to travel back on the straight and narrow, but if he's going to start thinking like that then he's probably too far gone.


Also you guys must have not read the comics a lot... the kid will turn out to screw over the group.  I think that was my point before and Dale's in his speech, bad things are going to happen anyway, so the least they can do is not turn into bad people.  There is no vindication in terms of results... doing the right thing is it's own reward.  If you are expecting one then you are doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

I feel like he still has some moral tendencies even though he was taking part in the execution.  Although it was Rick about to kill him until the little brat walked in.

Daryl is constantly asked to make the hard decisions like questioning the kid, and he does that but I just get the feeling he did it for the group instead of for pleasure.  Could you imagine if Shane had done the questioning?


There are different shades of morality as well.  There is Dale's maintain everything from past life.  There is Shane's kill anyone who gets in the way of me surviving no matter how little they may or may not impede me.  There is Rick's I can do anything so long a I justify it as protecting my family.

And then there is Daryl's do what I can to ensure other's survive morality.  I feel as though his is a more realistic view of the world without abandoning all humanity.  I loved Dale's speech but I also hated his lack of offering a workable alternative.  Why did he not say lock the boy up for one month and then drop him off in a remote location 50-75 miles away?

I don't think he is the leader now, but I know if called to lead he would do the best in the group.  I think he would most likely let the kid go if he called the shots, but with a little more common sense than some bus depot I didn't check for walkers.

[Howard_Casto]

I feel like he still has some moral tendencies even though he was taking part in the execution.  Although it was Rick about to kill him until the little brat walked in.



There are different shades of morality as well.  There is Dale's maintain everything from past life.  There is Shane's kill anyone who gets in the way of me surviving no matter how little they may or may not impede me.  There is Rick's I can do anything so long a I justify it as protecting my family.

And then there is Daryl's do what I can to ensure other's survive morality.  I feel as though his is a more realistic view of the world without abandoning all humanity.  I loved Dale's speech but I also hated his lack of offering a workable alternative.  Why did he not say lock the boy up for one month and then drop him off in a remote location 50-75 miles away?

That isn't what I was talking about.  Look closely at those reaction shots to Dale's screaming in the last episode.  Daryl was standing over the kid about to gut him just before the scream.  Even though the group had decided to keep him Daryl was going to kill him anyway.  Thankfully he hasn't done anything unforgivable yet, but he is in a real bad place right now.  I think you just weren't paying close enough attention to catch it.

There are NOT different shades of morality.  Dale's perspective is moral.  Shane's is selfish survivalism, no morals involved.  Rick's is selectively moral... that isn't true morality.  It is true that people can have different morals, but the thing here is that everbody in the group essentially has the same moral values, it's just Shane and to a lesser degree Rick are selectively ignoring them... that's called being immoral. 

You can't abandon "some" humanity.... once you start doing that you are automatically acting inhumaine.

[CheffoJeffo]

Gentlemen, you speak as if morality is absolute ... and, in that, you are both wrong.

[Green Giant]

I feel like he still has some moral tendencies even though he was taking part in the execution.  Although it was Rick about to kill him until the little brat walked in.



There are different shades of morality as well.  There is Dale's maintain everything from past life.  There is Shane's kill anyone who gets in the way of me surviving no matter how little they may or may not impede me.  There is Rick's I can do anything so long a I justify it as protecting my family.

And then there is Daryl's do what I can to ensure other's survive morality.  I feel as though his is a more realistic view of the world without abandoning all humanity.  I loved Dale's speech but I also hated his lack of offering a workable alternative.  Why did he not say lock the boy up for one month and then drop him off in a remote location 50-75 miles away?

That isn't what I was talking about.  Look closely at those reaction shots to Dale's screaming in the last episode.  Daryl was standing over the kid about to gut him just before the scream.  Even though the group had decided to keep him Daryl was going to kill him anyway.  Thankfully he hasn't done anything unforgivable yet, but he is in a real bad place right now.  I think you just weren't paying close enough attention to catch it.

There are NOT different shades of morality.  Dale's perspective is moral.  Shane's is selfish survivalism, no morals involved.  Rick's is selectively moral... that isn't true morality.  It is true that people can have different morals, but the thing here is that everbody in the group essentially has the same moral values, it's just Shane and to a lesser degree Rick are selectively ignoring them... that's called being immoral. 

You can't abandon "some" humanity.... once you start doing that you are automatically acting inhumaine.

I am gonna have to watch that one again.

But I disagree that the world is black or white.  Dale's perspective was moral and stupid.  His view was as extreme as Shane's just on the opposite spectrum.  Intentionally endangering your own group is immoral as it leads to deaths.

The big problem is that the group is well.....stupid.  The logical and moral solution would have been to detain him until you are confident his group has abandoned him.  Then take him to a location so far away he will not feel obligated to return.  Also ensure you treat him humanely to ensure he does not want to seek out revenge.

In society there must be punishment for crime.  The moral view is to turn the other cheek when in reality that can never work.  But I suppose if you are anti-capital punishment then you might think Dale's view is the only option.

[Howard_Casto]

You are confusing morality with religion.... they have NOTHING to do with each other. 

The moral thing to do isn't to turn the other cheek, that's the christian thing to do... big difference. 

Captial punishment is immoral because intentionally killing another person is unacceptable regardless of the situation.  We are to interdependant of a species, life is very prescious and we are far too stupid and petty to decide who gets to live and who gets to die.  I never have gotten the concept myself... it's even stupid from a logical perspective.  When you do something that bad your rights as a citizen are revoked... you are essentially slave labor at that point... people shouldn't want to kill such an individual, they should put them to work.  Then their miserable life will make a contribution to society, weather they like it or not. 

Dale's viewpoint isn't immoral or stupid at all, if you are a truely moral person.  Some people think it's ok to ignore your beliefs if it's for the sake of survival.  I'll be frank.. I'd rather die being the person I strive to be than to live with the guilt and shame of doing something unforgiveable.  I would also rather see a group of people going down the murderous path put out of their misery before they degrade into a collection of monsters.  So the very slight potentional risk of them doing the moral thing versus doing the "smart" thing is well worth it.  Unfortantely, a great portion of society is weak... they don't have the same convictions.

Ragardless, nothing Dale EVER suggested put the group in danger, intentionally or not.  People are making decisions right now based on the fear of what could happen... not on facts or evidence, just fearful speculation.  Someone's instincts no matter how accurate, is not grounds for killing someone.  Remember, we are seeing the story from the view of a third party.... we have privy to insight that they don't have. 

I will happily agree that they are all stupid though.  I really wish that one of these days a show/comic/whatever came out where the protagonists were given at least an above average level of intelligence.  It seems like all heroes are dummies. 

[CheffoJeffo]

It seems like all heroes are dummies. 

That's so the writers can get the majority of viewers to identify with them.

[Well Fed Games]

I thought the scene between Hershel and Glenn was cool. Makes me wonder what will happen when they leave the farm. On a related note, I think it is time for them to leave the farm, if only to progress the story... the traveling caravan vibe was more interesting to me.

I will miss Dale, I feel like losing the viewpoint he brought will make the show poorer, but with so many good characters, I have no doubt there will be plenty of conflict to keep me interested.

[Green Giant]

Ragardless, nothing Dale EVER suggested put the group in danger, intentionally or not.  People are making decisions right now based on the fear of what could happen... not on facts or evidence, just fearful speculation.  Someone's instincts no matter how accurate, is not grounds for killing someone.  Remember, we are seeing the story from the view of a third party.... we have privy to insight that they don't have. 

I will happily agree that they are all stupid though.  I really wish that one of these days a show/comic/whatever came out where the protagonists were given at least an above average level of intelligence.  It seems like all heroes are dummies. 

I don't think he suggested let's put everyone in direct danger, but his viewpoint lacked any alternative.  I almost understand the group decision to execute since they were faced with the option of kill him or set him free. 

I guess I personally hate when people have dissenting opinions and never offer an alternative.  It is one reason why most politicians infuriate me.....well annoy.  Damn my engineering mind.

[Mikezilla]

Im with GG on this regarding the fact that Dale kept saying "DONT KILL HIM!!!" on the verge of tears, but he didnt say any alternative what to do with him. You have to keep in mind Howard, this is a show. Most of the logical stuff we would do would not make for an interesting show, there always needs to be conflict or else it would be boring, and we would turn the channel or cancel our DVR recording. They arent "stupid" per se, they are acting as to what would happen if a zombie apocalypse was real, and what the writers tell them to do. Its not like we are watching Batman survive or something. 

What bugged me about the episode was that the kid never said that he would denounce his other group, help out, and stay there etc. He was just pleading all the time. Thats not going to get you anywhere. I still think its kind of lame Rick even saved him in the first place... I feel like the writers kind of had a case of writers block to fill up those two episodes, and this is what they filled it with.

I thought the scene between Hershel and Glenn was cool. Makes me wonder what will happen when they leave the farm. On a related note, I think it is time for them to leave the farm, if only to progress the story... the traveling caravan vibe was more interesting to me.

I will miss Dale, I feel like losing the viewpoint he brought will make the show poorer, but with so many good characters, I have no doubt there will be plenty of conflict to keep me interested.

Totally this. I agree with all of this. The farm has been played out, and the traveling aspect had more appeal, and more possibilities for things to happen. I wont really miss Dale honestly... I know he was the voice of reason and all, but he was kind of whiney, keep the guns from Andrea (who is a ---smurfette--- in and of itself) then his whining about the kid... Im not saying kill him or anything, but they didnt really show him that much this season aside from his crying about something, or his "what the hell is going on, Im old" face. 

[Donkbaca]

Dale's alternative is to give the kid a chance to prove his worth to the group.  You think about it, that makes sense, since they sort of went out of their way to save Rick in the first place. The argument for killing him is that he shot at the guys in the town, making him a bad guy, so he must be dealt with.  His introdcution to the group through the use of violence against the group automatically makes him an outsider, its hard to trust that someone won't turn against you, when they already sort of did the first time you saw him.  Dale's point is that this kid was a victim of circumstance, was stuck in a bad situation, and given a chance, might be helpful to the group.  That he is not inherently an enemy of the group and that his allegiance to the other group was one of convenience.  I don't see any of this as being stupid or simple, but maybe that's just my perspective.

I think saving the kid was essential to the character of Rick.  He's a good guy that has to struggle with the situational morality of it all.  He had no problems shooting first and not trusting the guys in the bar, and the fact that he was the one that killed Sophia is significant.  He's becoming a more complex character, in stark contrast to Shane who is devolving into a pure black and white, us versus them morality universe.

I think Dale was a good foil to Shane, because he has a black and white view of morality as well that is just the opposite of Shane's. 

The farm is getting old. It was interesting when there was conflict between Herschel and the group, but with Herschel turning into an old puppy dog, it runs the risk of devolving into little house on the prarie - with zombies.   The travelling aspect is what made the first season so good, when they made it to the CDC and got to eat hot meals and shower, it really was cool to almost empathize with the joy of simple luxuries that they had. 

[Mikezilla]

The travelling aspect is what made the first season so good, when they made it to the CDC and got to eat hot meals and shower, it really was cool to almost empathize with the joy of simple luxuries that they had. 

Very good point. There are only 2 episodes left, so who knows when the 3rd season will start. Maybe they will show something at Comic con this year.

[garnerb350]

Trust me... they will be leaving Hershels farm...
Besides...somebody has to tend to all those upkept lawns through America...

[Green Giant]

Trust me... they will be leaving Hershels farm...
Besides...somebody has to tend to all those upkept lawns through America...

It sure as hell won't be Shane doing it now.

So......virus lies dormant?  Perhaps a small dosage is maintainable, but a large injection of virus aka a bite will kill you?  So many questions after that. 


But I knew that bastard was evil.  Crazy punk.

[Well Fed Games]

Needless to say, I was very pleased with how the episode ended... Shane is finally dead, and he brought it upon himself, and there is finally going to be a siege on the homestead. They even managed to mourn a dead character well, which a lot of shows screw up.

[Howard_Casto]

Last night's episode redeemed the show somewhat. 

But is this show going to be plagued with flaws in logic and common sense forever?

When Shane re-animates Rick doesn't hear it?  WTF?  There are only two people in the field, not a noise for miles and a 6 foot tall moaning machine stands up behind you and you can't hear it?  Even letting that one go... there is a whole army of zombies gathering behind them, but judging by the previews for next episode, they can't hear or see them until they are right on top of them. 

Seriously, this show makes the zombies waaaay more threatening than they are.  They've made the humans just a sluggish and sensory deprived as their inhuman stalkers, which I suppose would be ok if they did it all the time and not selectively when they want to kill someone on the show.

[Mikezilla]

Im not using spoiler tags because I feel people that are reading this thread already watch the show considering we only comment on mondays. 

Im glad Shane is finally dead, but I hate Carl now. What the hell was he doing drawing his gun on his own Dad? I also think Rick kind of bitched out a little when he killed Shane. Rick knew that Shane has been gunning for him and his life for a long time. He slept with his wife for Gods sakes, and he tried to kill him, they have fought a number of times, and Rick has already had a taste of killing the living.

They are also kind of inconsistent with how long it takes to become a zombie after dying, or being bit. And yes, a herd of zombies coming over the hill should definitely be heard. Not only that, but where did all those people come from, were they just in the words?

[gavkiwi]

They are all infected, so when shane died, it didn't take long to turn to a walker. When andrea's sister died in season 1, she was bitten, and it takes longer to turn into a walker from a bite than if the person was alive, died and then turns to a walker faster. See randall had his neck broken by shane, that kills him, then randall turns into a walker from being killed from shane, the randall walker then attacks glenn & daryl. They even realised that the walker randall had no bites or marks on him.

So I think what Jenner told rick at the CDC was that they are "The walking dead", they all have the virus !

If you get bit or scratched by a walker/zombie, you turn into a walker yourself, but the process is delayed (hours pass).

If you just die, you turn into a walker faster. Shane is killed by rick, walker shane is killed by carl in a matter of minutes.

Finally, anyone that dies becomes a walker, regardless of how they die, except for head shots, thats the only way to be sure, for the living, or the dead.

OH, and the HERD from ep1, season 2 looks to be returning, I think the time on the farm is up. I expect hershel and some other farm folks to die, I think maggie will make it.

[lordnacho]

Maggie and Herschel make it, Maggie's sister is a zombie snack.

Decent episode, but I still prefer the comic books version of Shane's demise and how they leave the farm.  The herd is just convenient at this point.  They've been hanging out in the woods all this time?  

[Green Giant]

Last night's episode redeemed the show somewhat. 

But is this show going to be plagued with flaws in logic and common sense forever?

When Shane re-animates Rick doesn't hear it?  WTF?  There are only two people in the field, not a noise for miles and a 6 foot tall moaning machine stands up behind you and you can't hear it?  Even letting that one go... there is a whole army of zombies gathering behind them, but judging by the previews for next episode, they can't hear or see them until they are right on top of them. 

Seriously, this show makes the zombies waaaay more threatening than they are.  They've made the humans just a sluggish and sensory deprived as their inhuman stalkers, which I suppose would be ok if they did it all the time and not selectively when they want to kill someone on the show.

I would say they are fairly inconsistent with how threatening zombies are.

Although I think I see a pattern.  During the day, almost any number of zombies is manageable.  At night a single zombie is a terrible threat.  I mean 4 guys came up on the z-group enjoying a cow and proceeded to smash them to pieces with ease.  I guarantee that same thing happens at night and they are all little girls.  Well we will see next week.


But seriously.  When was the last time someone was killed during the day time??  Are we fighting vampire zombies?

[Howard_Casto]

Well what's even worse is the fact that it CONFIRMS my complaints about Dale's zombie killer.  Notice how a single cow completely satisfies not just one but THREE zombies?  Also notice that they are so involved in eating said cow that they don't even bother to react until the gang has killed half of their friends?

Dale's death was poorly written... I'm sorry but it was.  It was emotional, but it was still poorly written.  I'm still not over the tearing open his stomach with it's bare hands either.  Most of the muscles in your torso are in the stomach region, it is VERY dense.  People think that it's thin because it's so flexible, but that just isn't the case.  Can your stomach be punctured easily?  Yeah, with something sharp enough or enough blunt force.  Can it be pulled apart by hand?  No not really.  So was Otis's for that matter..... those zombies were miles back and barely moving and yet those two were panicking like they were right on top of them. 

Shane's death was a good one.  I'm suprised on the aftershow and other boards that they are saying that the knifing was unexpected or didn't make sense.  First off, if you didn't get that Rick was going to kill him as soon as they faced off western style then I worry about you.  Secondly they are both trained police officers and in earlier episodes they have a conversation about Shane being the better shot.  So if Rick had drawn on him, it would have put his life in danger.... it was much smarter to bring him in close and stab him while he's off guard. 

Poor old Randy was a weasely little guy wasn't he?  I'm not even sure he was telling the truth about the camp, I think that he's just so pathetic that he'll lie like a dog to anybody that might have pitty on him.

[Howard_Casto]

Oh yeah death predicitons......  we can't go by the comics because some of those people are already dead and there are new characters not in the books.


Maggie, her sister and Hershell survive.  Hershell is the new Dale because they killed him too early.

That young boy with hershell's group and pretty much anybody left in that group is zombie chow... they haven't gotten enough screen time.

All of your main characters survive.

 T-Dog is roadkill... it's been two seasons and they've yet to do anything with him. 

That lady with the shaved head (can't remember her name) is also dead... she just isn't going to be able to fight back considering how screwed up she is atm.

Darrel worries me... I don't think they'll kill him because their quota for killing off important characters is full for now, but it would be an opportune time for him to "redeem" himself by saving someone at his own expense.

[Green Giant]

Oh yeah death predicitons......  we can't go by the comics because some of those people are already dead and there are new characters not in the books.


Maggie, her sister and Hershell survive.  Hershell is the new Dale because they killed him too early.

That young boy with hershell's group and pretty much anybody left in that group is zombie chow... they haven't gotten enough screen time.

All of your main characters survive.

 T-Dog is roadkill... it's been two seasons and they've yet to do anything with him.  

That lady with the shaved head (can't remember her name) is also dead... she just isn't going to be able to fight back considering how screwed up she is atm.

Darrel worries me... I don't think they'll kill him because their quota for killing off important characters is full for now, but it would be an opportune time for him to "redeem" himself by saving someone at his own expense.

I agree on the unknown people in Hershel's group, but I also think Maggie's sister will go too.  It would be cruel justice for her to go after she "decided" to live when Andrea basically said kill yourself we hate you.  I hate Andrea.

Of the group I think they will all make it out of this one.

I think Daryl will be the hero hands down.  There is no way in hell he will die now, since he is on the verge of becoming a comic book character.  My guess is Daryl and Glenn will save the day.  They are going to be coming in from behind the group unlike Rick getting chased with that little bastard of his.

I do think we are done with major characters dropping this season unless of course they leave us with a cliffhanger or like Daryl leads the herd off into the wilderness alone.  DAMN CLIFFHANGERS!!


Have any of you noticed on the Walking Dead commercials on AMC there is one with Daryl on his bike and ALOT of walkers behind him.  Was that from an episode that I don't remember or unknown?

[Donkbaca]

Geez HC, I think its pretty silly to be talking about unrealistic things, given the whole premise of the show.

Its not that hard to rip open an old man's stomach, its not like he had a body builder's abs or anything, and if you have something sharp, abs fall apart pretty easily, they used to disembowel people all the time in the past.  Maybe the zombie had claw like fingers?  Also you act like being knee deep in mud is no big thing, have you ever been knee deep in a swamp?  It can be pretty tough getting out.

I assume all zombies are different, it could be that those three were attracted to the cow, and that dale's killer saw dale coming and decided to go for him.

What would you have rather happened?  The zombie fall on Dale and claw away to no avail, only to have Dale be put down later because the zombie broke his hip?  Probably more realistic, way shittier television.

The herd of zombies is understandable, they could be a roaming herd that just happened to be stumbling upon the farm, the farm, from what I take of it, is a fairly large piece of property and its surrounded by wilderness, if the herd, was say, a mile away, they would be pretty hard to see/detect and they could descend on the farm within a half hour or so.

Anyhow, none of that stuff really bugs me all that much, i don't find that they are any worse than anything that has happened to the show, like Darrell's brother cutting off his own hand and cauterizing the wound on an open flame, come on now, don't be so nit picky.

I don't see how you can think that Herschel is the new Dale, he has never had that righteousness for the sake of righteousness that Dale had.  I think if anyone takes Dale's spot it would be Glenn, he is the only character that is unsoiled as a purely good guy.  Herschel is not, he is a drunk, wanted to kick people off the farm, had no problem killing randall, etc.  In all honesty I think there is no need for a new Dale, Dale's do right-regardless of consequences was a stark contrast to Shane's - do what is easy regardless of what is right persona.  With both of them gone, there is no need for a voice of reason.

I don't know if any of the people on the farm live.  I am guessing Herschel, because he is a doctor, and an interesting character.  Maggie I could see going either way, she is kind of boring, and in both cases - live or die, she makes things interesting for Glenn and Herschel.  The others on the farm I see no point in keeping around, unless they feel the need to bring on additional faces due to the deaths.

The bald headed woman has got to go.

Its actually refreshing that the black wasn't among the first handful of people to go.  But he's 50-50 if you ask me, though, he actually spoke for the first time last episode, so maybe he stays.

I don't see how Darrel needs to redeem himself, he hasn't done anything to compromise the group, he has just been a bit of a loner, which most people don't seem to mind too much about.

I think Shane's death is really one of the best I have seen in any series, an up close knife is a pretty intimate/brutal way to kill someone, I think the character of Rick has improved by leaps and bounds, that last conversation with Lori and Shane was great too, shows that her character is deeper than we think, even Carl has shown some character development.  The show has gotten so much better since the death of Sophia

[Green Giant]

You tell him he has something he needs to be redeemed for.

[Bootay]

I personally like that the show isnt that much like the comic because I don't always know what's going to happen, but I felt that Shane's death was pretty lame...

[garnerb350]

[Howard_Casto]

Geez HC, I think its pretty silly to be talking about unrealistic things, given the whole premise of the show.

No, it absolutely is not. 

This show requires a HUGE suspension of disbelief in that you have to pretend that zombies are a real possibliity and that the dead can re-animate.

The larger the suspension of disbelief a show has, the more realistic the show's plot/logic has to be.  When something stupid happens it takes you out of your suspension of disbelief and the immersion effect is lost.  In other words you don't enjoy the show as much. 

I mean this is year one film school stuff man... everybody knows this.

It's like those movies in the mid 90's where the spy would sneak into a huge facility and instantly copy a companies entire database on a single floppy disc.  Regardless of how unbelieveable the plot was I was probably into the film until that moment.  And then I realize what idiots the writers were and I'm shaking my fist at the screen... the illusion is over... the film has been ruined for me.

To answer your question yes... I would have rather seen Dale die in a more realistic way.  You see the problem isn't just that he died unrealistically, it's that it could have easily been fixed.  Have the zombie chomping at his stomache instead of his face.... the zombie gets a bite... everybody knows he's a goner and thus the scene could have ended the exact same way.  Heck just have the zombie scratch his stomach pretty bad... that would have been in the rhealm of possibilities and again, the same result.

Otis could have been handled better as well.  Imagine them booking it (well as fast as possible anyway, Shane's leg was messed up) with the zombies actually breathing down their necks...both of them firing backwards into the crowd as often as possible. Otis says something like "I can't keep this up!" and Shane says "I've got your back, I'll carry your gun and the pack and I'll take over for a while" He gives them to him and Shane blasts him in the face and Otis falls into a sea of zombies.  Again, same result, but it's more realisitic and it would have actually looked better film-wise.


Hershell isn't Dale's replacement.. they aren't the same character, but up until now Dale was the father figure of the group.  Hershell will fill in that role.

You've got to remember that Daryl wasn't so nice to the group in the beginning and he evolved into a legitimately decent person only to turn into a psuedo villain in the last couple of episodes (beating the kid half to death... attempting to kill the kid without the group's consent, ect...).  I don't think the people of the group have any ill will towards him, but he is having problems with his own actions.  It's always an internal battle and his redemption would be his own redemption in his own eyes.  He puts on a good tough guy act... but that guy is hurting inside.

[Green Giant]

I have to agree with HC that you need to keep some logic no matter how silly the concept or story is.

Most recently I remember watching Terminator Salvation.  I can follow it and believe that machines have taken over everything....etc.  I get that.

It was the last scene in the movie where the former VETERINARIAN does a FIELD HEART TRANSPLANT.  Seriously.......a  heart transplant.  No concern about matching even blood types.



So yes, I do want some consistency.  This recent stuff with reanimation without infection is one of those things.  That and the night/day difference.  Why are zombies such little girls in the day time and deadly killing machines at night.  Did glen and daryl really need to get knocked over by zombie randall? 

[Donkbaca]

I actually took some film school classes and I disagree.

You are going in with a bias as to what you expect the zombies to be.  I think that the scene was good in that it changes the perception of what the zombies are capable of, and goes hand in hand with the people rising after not being bit.  Maybe the zombies are getting stronger?

Also, I don't think its that unrealistic to claw up an old mans abdomen, if he had long sharp nails, or exposed sharp finger bones.  Hell its certainly easier than tearing apart a cow with your bare hands.

I TOTALLY disagree with your Otis take.  It would not be realistic for Shane to ask for all that stuff or for Otis to willingly give up that stuff to an injured man, and he especially would not have given up his gun.  I think the way it went down is way more realistic, shane panics, and offs Otis and then struggles with that impulse internally.

I don't find Dale to be a father figure to the group at all, nobody looks up to him and looks to him for any sort of leadership or guidance.  To me, he is more like the nosy neighbor constantly in your business.  I don't see any similarities between him and Herschel other than their both being old white guys.

From what I remember, didn't they send Darrell in to interrogate the kid? It wasn't like he did that in secret.  I don't understand why you keep talking about redemption, the only internal struggle I see with Darrell is the guilt over leaving his brother behind.  I think he is a slef reliant person that has a well centered sense of good and bad.  I don't understand what sins he needs redeeming from.

[Well Fed Games]

I'm most interested to see if we will encounter Darryl's brother again or the Father/son from season one in Atlanta.

[Louis Tully]

.