Walking Dead: Season 2

[Bootay]

I am not done with the comic yet though, so that could change.

[Mikezilla]

Hurry up and read it so I dont have to buy the compendiums. 

[Ginsu Victim]

Following the Romero tradition, you will never know the cause of the outbreak (I prefer it that way). Anyone who points to Romero movies saying the cause are actually pointing to speculation within the movies, not the actual cause.

[Mikezilla]

Following the Romero tradition, you will never know the cause of the outbreak (I prefer it that way). Anyone who points to Romero movies saying the cause are actually pointing to speculation within the movies, not the actual cause.

I suppose Im on the fence on this one. I think part of the creativity in the Zombie genre comes from saying how the outbreak actually happened. Typically its a disease yadda yadda, but I at least would like a montage on what happened, how the military reacted, etc. I dunno, I dont like how stuff "just happens". Thats part of the reason why I didnt like that Children of Men movie...They never explained why the women couldnt have children. It kind of lessens the impact of the tone of the movie if they just state things that the whole movie revolves around.

That blonde chick is freaking annoying, I hope she gets eaten soon.

[Ginsu Victim]

That blonde chick is freaking annoying, I hope she gets eaten soon.

Andrea? She's going nowhere. Last night gave a glimpse into her future as the badass sniper she becomes.

[Vigo]

Following the Romero tradition, you will never know the cause of the outbreak (I prefer it that way). Anyone who points to Romero movies saying the cause are actually pointing to speculation within the movies, not the actual cause.

I suppose Im on the fence on this one. I think part of the creativity in the Zombie genre comes from saying how the outbreak actually happened. Typically its a disease yadda yadda, but I at least would like a montage on what happened, how the military reacted, etc. I dunno, I dont like how stuff "just happens". Thats part of the reason why I didnt like that Children of Men movie...They never explained why the women couldnt have children. It kind of lessens the impact of the tone of the movie if they just state things that the whole movie revolves around.

I am in the camp that there should be at least something. It is kinda dumb that they don't know and don't even bother asking around. It would be cool if they at least heard different rumors wherever they went, or if the origin was slowly unfolded as the series progresses. I kinda wish there was more plot unveiled when they were at the CDC.

That blonde chick is freaking annoying, I hope she gets eaten soon.

Haha, I wish she just fried herself at the CDC. I hope she gets better as a character, but she has just been nothing but annoying up to this point. I just try to brace myself for her weekly tantrum.

[Ginsu Victim]

It is kinda dumb that they don't know and don't even bother asking around.

Which I'm sure the group discussed during the period of Rick's coma....which we didn't see.

It would be cool if they at least heard different rumors wherever they went

If they follow the comic, it'll happen.

[Dartful Dodger]

Saturday was a Walking Dead marathon for me.

It looks like they're getting back to the comic. Too bad, I was starting to like the new Shane and I liked not knowing what's next.

Although Daryl didn't go nuts like he did when he got lost in the comics. Without the other bits, cutting off the ears and being crazed when he got back to the farm didn’t even make sense.

[Ginsu Victim]

Darryl isn't in the comic.

[Howard_Casto]

Saturday was a Walking Dead marathon for me.

It looks like they're getting back to the comic. Too bad, I was starting to like the new Shane and I liked not knowing what's next.

Although Daryl didn't go nuts like he did when he got lost in the comics. Without the other bits, cutting off the ears and being crazed when he got back to the farm didn’t even make sense.

Are you confused or something because Daryl isn't in the comics.  Well at least not yet, I think they finally stuck him in the tale-end of issue 91

He cut off the ears as trophies to prove his dominance over his enemies.  It's a very ancient and almost instinctual tradition.
He was crazed because he was in extreme pain and probably suffering from an infection and a decent amount of blood loss.

Just like in the comics, Shane was a first class a-hole from the very first appearance.  How anyone could like that POS is beyond me.  I'm not sure how you couldn't see every single solitary thing he's done thus far miles ahead of time.  The character on the show is a cliche villian with minutes of fore-shadowing prior to every action and that's why he needs to go.

I'm not condeming you for your opinion at all, I just find it extremely frustrating that I can predict the general plot of every single solitary show I've ever watched and yet lots of others get to be suprised by the plot twists.  It is NOT FUN to be such an expert of the tropes and cliches of film and television.... I can spot a bad plot point, bad acting or poor character development a mile away.  It's why I'm so hard on tv shows and films.

As for the whole zombie origin thing, just hope that we NEVER find out.  Why?  Well in any series or movie when they discover the cause of the disaster you are officially thrown into the third act and it's just a matter of time before the show is over.  

On a purely personal note I think it's good for the survivors to seek answers and to even find some obsure bits of info or such and even have story lines built around seeking the truth, but they should never find any real answers.   The reason is simple... that bit of mystery leaves things for the viewer to wonder and for the writers to explore and exploit that mystery.  Once all the answers are known nothing interesting can be done anymore without it feeling pointless.

I will point out this though:

1.  Rick got that tidbit of info just before they left the CDC
2.  Judging by the last episode, we can assume that the info was NOT about his wife being pregnant.

So I would say that Rick knows a little about the plague but he's withholding the info because at this point it is useless to the group and would hurt morale.

[Mikezilla]

I'm not condeming you for your opinion at all, I just find it extremely frustrating that I can predict the general plot of every single solitary show I've ever watched and yet lots of others get to be suprised by the plot twists.  It is NOT FUN to be such an expert of the tropes and cliches of film and television.... I can spot a bad plot point, bad acting or poor character development a mile away.  It's why I'm so hard on tv shows and films.

 

[Dartful Dodger]

I might be confusing daryle with someone else.


I thought Daryl got lost in the woods for weeks went crazy and started eating the zombies he killed. He did keep their ears for trophies, but when he returned he and dozens of ears, not just two.

That's also how they figured out that the zombies aren't infectious after their brain is dead. Making the well water with the zombie guts and any other wells connected to that well clean enough to drink.

[Donkbaca]

 I love the show, I just have a few  questions.  How come there are dead people that aren't zombies?  Do the Zombies eventually expire?  Are these people that killed themselves before they got bit, and is it the case that you can only get zombified if bitten while you are alive?  Why don't the zombies eat the dead people, or each other?

[Nephasth]

I've watched every episode since season 1 began, haven't even seen one of the comics. I think the show is retarded. They don't take into account blood borne pathogens, apparently zombies can't smell fresh blood, random cars turned upside down in between cars that aren't damaged, heards of zombies walking the interstates... And what about when Carl found the pack of knives in the truck? He had to reach over a rotting dead guy, why the hell would the guy sit in his truck to die? And to die sitting up at that. Yeah, it's a zombie show, but make the thing more realistic! I hate the show, but for some reason, I HAVE to watch it. I'm just glad Hell On Wheels is on after it now.

[Well Fed Games]

And what about when Carl found the pack of knives in the truck? He had to reach over a rotting dead guy, why the hell would the guy sit in his truck to die?

Yeah, I have wondered about the dead (but not zombified or eaten) people too. I love the show, but the more I love a show, the more the inconsistencies bug me. For instance, that old farm house is (oddly) safe, and yes there is a doctor there, but they act there is no other secure compound they could find in the whole southeast. Likewise, I don't feel like we developed any feelings for the lost girl before she went missing.

And my 2 cents, I love they don't explain the cause of all of it. I much like in The Road, I think it helps focus the story on the characters within the mythos, instead of the mythos itself.

[Mikezilla]

And what about when Carl found the pack of knives in the truck? He had to reach over a rotting dead guy, why the hell would the guy sit in his truck to die?

Yeah, I have wondered about the dead (but not zombified or eaten) people too. I love the show, but the more I love a show, the more the inconsistencies bug me. For instance, that old farm house is (oddly) safe, and yes there is a doctor there, but they act there is no other secure compound they could find in the whole southeast. Likewise, I don't feel like we developed any feelings for the lost girl before she went missing.

And my 2 cents, I love they don't explain the cause of all of it. I much like in The Road, I think it helps focus the story on the characters within the mythos, instead of the mythos itself.

Same here, wondering about the dead that arent zombified. I was wondering if the zombies jump on people and eat ALL of them, how are there so many zombies? Wouldnt the people have to get bit, then get away, then turn into a zombie? Im over the whole girl thing, they have dragged it on WAAAYY too long. Not only did you develop any feelings for the girl, you dont feel sorry for her because she is so stupid. How could she not find the highway, Rick gave her specific instructions... I hope she comes back as a zombie. I actually want her to be dead. The mom too. And the blonde chick. And the whore wife.

Im still annoyed the black dude lived from that "cut" he sustained. That was ridiculous. 

[Howard_Casto]

I might be confusing daryle with someone else.


I thought Daryl got lost in the woods for weeks went crazy and started eating the zombies he killed. He did keep their ears for trophies, but when he returned he and dozens of ears, not just two.

That's also how they figured out that the zombies aren't infectious after their brain is dead. Making the well water with the zombie guts and any other wells connected to that well clean enough to drink.

I don't know where you are getting ANY of that stuff man.  It is mentioned quite explicitly that there are 5 wells on Hershel's property and the one with the walker in it is the one he was going to have Rick's group use.  Nobody ever drank from that particular well.  I don't remember the scene you are talking about in the book, but then again we are 91 episodes and I think about 5 years in.  Can't remember anything.

[Bootay]

The dead that aren't zombified are the dead whose brain was destroyed for any reason I would imagine. Where I am in the comic there are hints of zombies getting weaker for an unknown reason, and the group suspects it might be lack of food but they aren't certain why. Not sure if they touch on that later.

I am on issue 65 and there is NO Daryl in the comics, and the whole storyline you mentioned about him hasn't happened yet. If it does later, and it is the Daryl character, I fail to see why they needed to introduce his character in the TV show so damned early. Also the well scene and the lost girl storylines don't happen in the comic either. (thank god)

The comic I feel is a much better storyline..and they focus less on the zombies and more on how ---smurfy--- the living have become since the dead started walking the Earth.

This season has dragged on the little girl and Hershel's farm for far too long. It might be because of the massive budget cuts that AMC forced upon this season. (like $250,000 per episode or something crazy like that). Maybe they are dragging it on till Season 3 and hoping AMC will give them the budget back so they can continue. Things are about to get much bigger and they will need more money if they continue to follow the comic. Hershel's farm was only about 3-4 issues...we are like 6 episodes in and they are still there. Sure..the comic skips ahead in time a bit while they waited for Carl to heal...but so did the show. I hope AMC gives them the budget back.

[Nephasth]

It might be because of the massive budget cuts that AMC forced upon this season. (like $250,000 per episode or something crazy like that). Maybe they are dragging it on till Season 3 and hoping AMC will give them the budget back so they can continue.

Next episode is the "mid-season finale". WTF is that? A finale in the middle of the season!? Come on. So lame.

[Bootay]

A lot of shows do the mid-season finale now. It usually only lasts a couple of months. Still annoying though.

[Mikezilla]

Hell yeah its annoying, especially when it took a full year for the second season anyway. They have also had more commercial breaks if you ask me. It felt like I was watching a movie last season, now there are so many commercials...

[Donkbaca]

I do think the search for the girl is going a little long, it kind of works though, if it builds to a face off between those that think the search should continue and those that don't, which would be interesting because at that point, those that don't want to keep looking would be forced to leave as it is obvious that whatever deal they have to stay there is between Rick and Herschel, that is why I am guessing there is no real push to call off the search, because everyone is fat and happy on the farm and any excuse to stay there is as good as any.

I can see how the farm isn't overrun.  My understanding is that its in butt----fudgesicle--- nowhere, surrounded by fences. 

I am guessing the zombies only eat living things?  That is why they haven't eaten the corpses?

I haven't read the comics, I think Daryl is the best character on the show, glad he is on it.

[Bootay]

I agree that Daryl is the best character in the show. He is not in the comics though. I was sort of bummed about that at first.

[Ginsu Victim]

A lot of shows do the mid-season finale now. It usually only lasts a couple of months. Still annoying though.

Better to have more episodes in February and March instead of waiting until October again.

[Howard_Casto]

Mid-season finales have been around for AGES and practically every single solitary drama has a mid-season finale.  The reason actually makes a lot of sense.... tv networks found that the ratings for shows dramatically decrease between thanksgiving and new years.  People are busy with the holidays and/or watching christmas specials and don't watch their regular shows. 

They usually stop airing a show around thanksgiving (even if they don't officially call it a mid-season finale) and pick it up again mid-Jan.  Unfortunately AMC, BBC and some of the odd-ball networks sure do stretch this out with their second half of the season not starting until spring.

About the points:

Zombies indeed only eat living things, this is why they fed them live chickens instead of killing them first.  This is actually true in the animal kingdom.... some species refuse to eat anything dead unless you practically cram it down their throat.

People die for various reasons besides zombies.  Starvation, suicide, carbon-monoxide posioning (the likely cause of the dead in the sub-burb given the fire downstairs), other people, heat stroke, old age ect....

Typically a zombie is indeed made when a person is bitten and gets away.  This is a very efficient delivery method, at least initially.  Think about it, one zombie or a few zombies aren't a threat.... you are suprised, get bit and easily run away and/or kill your attackers.  You then re-join your little group and you appear "sick." Everyone falls asleep for the night, you die and turn and then go around eating everyone in your sleep.  You probably aren't going to last, but you've probably managed to bite at least two or three people before you off you... and the cycle continues until in a society that lacks any communication, your group determines for themselves that a bite turns a person.


It could go either way with the farm.  On the one hand it is psuedo isolated (not THAT isolated as it's just off the interstate going out of Atlanta) and there is a large buffer of land between the house and civilization.  On the other hand, the interstate is just a mile away and if you've ever been on a farm, they stretch the definition of a fence to it's limits.... they are generally nothing more than some logs stuck into the ground with a bit of wire linking them.  Sure it'll hold in your livestock because horses/cows/ect are weary of crossing fences, but it wouldn't hold out people. 

In general though, walkers just wouldn't have any reason to wander so far off the beaten path to the farm.  There isn't anything keeping them out, they just don't have any reason to go there.

This is something that has always bothered me about zombie films/ect....  They act like you have to go to alaska or an island or something to escape the zombies.  That's just silly.  In the North America at least there are TONS of out-of-the way places with a decent climate, little to no people, and virgin woods. 

The problem though is globilization has made the entire world incapable of living off the grid.  If the zombie apocalypse hits, you don't need to worry about weapons, you need to learn about farming and have tons of usable seed and people talented enough to get the stuff growing without fertilizer and pesticides and genetically manipulated starter plants.  Oh and how to survive without a power plant and water treatment plant.

[Nephasth]

Zombies indeed only eat living things, this is why they fed them live chickens instead of killing them first.  This is actually true in the animal kingdom.... some species refuse to eat anything dead unless you practically cram it down their throat.

Really? You actually believe this? Most predators actually kill their meals before eating them. A lot of predators are also opportunistic scavengers and will feed off something that has been dead for a while. It takes months to pick a whale carcass clean off the bottom of the ocean. Many animals are necrophagists.

[Necro]

One question - that I'm too lazy to go back through my comics for - wasn't Shane dead by this point in the comic?  And nice twist on flat out telling Rick she slept with Shane.  He says never to tell him in the comic.

[garnerb350]

Correct me if im wrong, but...

I thought the comic was set where if anybody died, they came back as a zombie... That was one of the great points i loved about the series...

Also I cant wait for The Ayatollah of Rock N Rolla Lord Humongus to show up and tell Rick to walk away, just walk away...

[Mikezilla]

I dont understand why they feel the need to feed them anyway. If they had read the Zombie Survival guide, like they should have, then they would havee known that zombies dont consume the flesh of the living for nourishment.

Vigo was right too, it was just cause they were family members, which I get, but still, its kinda lame. I was hoping for a cooler reason than "they are still people" kind of thing. I knew the blonde chick and shane were going to hook up, it was obvious, but I didnt think she was going to do it like that. 

[Ginsu Victim]

One question - that I'm too lazy to go back through my comics for - wasn't Shane dead by this point in the comic?  And nice twist on flat out telling Rick she slept with Shane.  He says never to tell him in the comic.

Yeah, he's on borrowed time ATM.

[Howard_Casto]

Zombies indeed only eat living things, this is why they fed them live chickens instead of killing them first.  This is actually true in the animal kingdom.... some species refuse to eat anything dead unless you practically cram it down their throat.

Really? You actually believe this? Most predators actually kill their meals before eating them. A lot of predators are also opportunistic scavengers and will feed off something that has been dead for a while. It takes months to pick a whale carcass clean off the bottom of the ocean. Many animals are necrophagists.

I think you missed the "some" in my statement.  Of course many predators eat dead things, that wasn't my point.  The point was that there are species that avoid/aren't attracted to dead carcases.  This is because a lot of predators, like ourselves can get ill by the diseases and bacteria found on a rotting corpse.  It's common sense really. 

Whales aren't a great example of what you were getting at btw because they are an aquatic creature (the rules are different in the ocean), they are mostly blubber, which doesn't rot as quickly as other flesh, they are HUGE and the cold salt water preserves the corpse a lot longer than one rotting out in the sun.

It's also common sense that when I said that zombies eat "live" food that they START to eat the food when it's alive.  The victim would be dead from the first bite or two, it doesn't mean that they walk away and live the rest to rot.  Zombies, like most predators are more likely to go after live, preferably injured food then something that isn't moving because their senses are limited to that of a human... a human that's partially rotted to boot.  It isn't that they wouldn't eat a recently killed chicken, for example, it's that they couldn't FIND the chicken without it squaking about.  Again this is also true in the animal kingdom... just try catching a fish with a live, wriggling worm vs a dead one.

garnerb350:  Nope you are wrong.  Go back and re-read.

Mikezilla:

Of course these are pretend creatures, so we can only just speculate, but the virus/plauge/wrath of Khan/whatever that reanimates the dead probably causes the urge to eat things as a means to spread the infection.  Also in the Walking Dead universe the Romero Films and the "hollywood zombie" just don't exist.  This is why they are referred to as "walkers" and not zombies because there they don't equate the terms in their world.  So the survivial guide (which is awesome) doesn't exist there.

The reason they are feeding them is because Hershel is crazy.  He thinks they can be "cured" and thus he's trying to keep them nourished.  Crazy is the only explaination because any normal person would give up on the feeding once they turned green and their faces started falling off.

[Bootay]

Howard,

I have just spent the last 2 weeks reading all of the comics and am currently still reading them, and garnerb350 is right actually. Anyone who dies, bitten or not becomes a zombie. Unless you were referring to something else garner350 said.  Also, in the comic they do refer to them as "zombies". Walkers and roamers for the most part, but they do say "zombies" occasionally.

[Nephasth]

I think you missed the "some" in my statement.  Of course many predators eat dead things, that wasn't my point.  The point was that there are species that avoid/aren't attracted to dead carcases.  This is because a lot of predators, like ourselves can get ill by the diseases and bacteria found on a rotting corpse.  It's common sense really. 

Whales aren't a great example of what you were getting at btw because they are an aquatic creature (the rules are different in the ocean), they are mostly blubber, which doesn't rot as quickly as other flesh, they are HUGE and the cold salt water preserves the corpse a lot longer than one rotting out in the sun.

It's also common sense that when I said that zombies eat "live" food that they START to eat the food when it's alive.  The victim would be dead from the first bite or two, it doesn't mean that they walk away and live the rest to rot.  Zombies, like most predators are more likely to go after live, preferably injured food then something that isn't moving because their senses are limited to that of a human... a human that's partially rotted to boot.  It isn't that they wouldn't eat a recently killed chicken, for example, it's that they couldn't FIND the chicken without it squaking about.  Again this is also true in the animal kingdom... just try catching a fish with a live, wriggling worm vs a dead one.

I'll give you the whale in the water thing, but a grizzly bear will bury a half eaten elk (an elk they didn't origianally kill) carcass and come back to it a week later to finish it off. Why would zombies need to worry about diseases and bacteria from the food they eat? I catch fish all the time with out live bait, like ice fishing for trout with Powerbait. Fish have a very good sense of smell. Still don't understand why a zombie wouldn't eat rotting flesh, nasty, smelly, rotting flesh.

[AtomSmasher]

I think you missed the "some" in my statement.  Of course many predators eat dead things, that wasn't my point.  The point was that there are species that avoid/aren't attracted to dead carcases.  This is because a lot of predators, like ourselves can get ill by the diseases and bacteria found on a rotting corpse.  It's common sense really. 

Whales aren't a great example of what you were getting at btw because they are an aquatic creature (the rules are different in the ocean), they are mostly blubber, which doesn't rot as quickly as other flesh, they are HUGE and the cold salt water preserves the corpse a lot longer than one rotting out in the sun.

It's also common sense that when I said that zombies eat "live" food that they START to eat the food when it's alive.  The victim would be dead from the first bite or two, it doesn't mean that they walk away and live the rest to rot.  Zombies, like most predators are more likely to go after live, preferably injured food then something that isn't moving because their senses are limited to that of a human... a human that's partially rotted to boot.  It isn't that they wouldn't eat a recently killed chicken, for example, it's that they couldn't FIND the chicken without it squaking about.  Again this is also true in the animal kingdom... just try catching a fish with a live, wriggling worm vs a dead one.

I'll give you the whale in the water thing, but a grizzly bear will bury a half eaten elk (an elk they didn't origianally kill) carcass and come back to it a week later to finish it off. Why would zombies need to worry about diseases and bacteria from the food they eat? I catch fish all the time with out live bait, like ice fishing for trout with Powerbait. Fish have a very good sense of smell. Still don't understand why a zombie wouldn't eat rotting flesh, nasty, smelly, rotting flesh.

Considering that zombies don't need to eat to survive, it's really just a means to spread the disease, it makes perfect sense that they wouldn't go after anything that was dead.

[Nephasth]

That's a great point. But then why continue to consume the whole body of the victim?

[AtomSmasher]

That's a great point. But then why continue to consume the whole body of the victim?

Could be explained a couple of ways.  First it could be a feeding frenzy mentality similar to sharks.  Second it could be the zombie disease (or whatever it is) tells their body to consume living flesh, and since flesh doesn't instantly die when the heart stops beating, it makes sense for them to continue eating for 15-30 minutes after the kill.

[lordnacho]

Considering that zombies don't need to eat to survive

Watched a lot of zombie movies but never heard this.  Sometimes you see zombies that are dying, possibly of starvation.

One thing I couldn't figure out was the dude that hung himself only to turn into a zombie and have his legs eaten off.  If he was bite before he hung himself, dies, turns, then zombies ate his zombie legs.  If he hung himself not bitten and didn't die, well he's an idiot I guess.  Then he was stuck and zombies came along, ate his legs and turned him.  Seems far fetched.

[AtomSmasher]

Considering that zombies don't need to eat to survive

Watched a lot of zombie movies but never heard this.  Sometimes you see zombies that are dying, possibly of starvation.

What did the zombie in the bottom of the well eat, or the zombie that hung himself?  Zombies with most of the body missing, including their stomaches, still seem to survive just fine.

[Howard_Casto]

Howard,

I have just spent the last 2 weeks reading all of the comics and am currently still reading them, and garnerb350 is right actually. Anyone who dies, bitten or not becomes a zombie. Unless you were referring to something else garner350 said.  Also, in the comic they do refer to them as "zombies". Walkers and roamers for the most part, but they do say "zombies" occasionally.

Come to think of it there was a thing about halfway through the books where something like that happened, BUT I remember seeing corpses in the books as well.  The only explaination would be that some people are immune.  I suppose it could also be zombies that people killed.  They would rot normally after they are killed I would assume.  To be honest though it was only mentioned in a short part of the books though and I think it was just bad writing  to give Rick an excuse to go back and make his peace over Shane being shot  as it was never really brought up again.

They refer to them as zombies because the writers gave up.  Initially they explicity tried to not use the term for the reasons I explained before but the editors kept catching them using the term out of habit, sent it back to them and they had to fix it.  It delayed production and on top of that it got old real fast.  Because of all of this they eventually gave up and just tried not to use the term, and if it slips in "oh well".  This was explained in numerious interviews as well as the "talk back" letters at the end of the comics. 

[lordnacho]

What did the zombie in the bottom of the well eat, or the zombie that hung himself?  Zombies with most of the body missing, including their stomaches, still seem to survive just fine.

The first kept hydrated, that's more important than food

Valid points though and I was thinking of more "infected person" than "undead" in the starvation thing