Ultimate MVC3

[HaRuMaN]

Gah...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005C7R8I8/

[amendonz]

Yeah it's getting a little ridiculous.. But at least we're getting a full game now. Doesn't look like they nerfed x factor enough though. Hate that ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. Waiting for the next sf4 update 2 more characters and they need to fix yun's broken ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. He can trade c.Roundhouse into otg ultra.. If only capcom didn't make such awesome games i'd be getting a bit pissed

[Mikezilla]

Yeah, saw a lot of that at the Comic Con. I entered into a tournament and got to try Firebrand, Ghost Rider, and Hawkeye. I got the floor wiped with me though because after the 3 bracket some pro asian gamer dude came out of nowhere and actually raped me with Doctor Doom. I was so freakin pissed off.

Back to the game though, Im never going to buy a game like this when it first comes out ever again. I bought the original for 65 bucks, then, like a dumbass, bought shuma gorath for 5 as DLC and it was terrible. Then they release this ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. X factor wasnt really nerfed, it was just explained how to use it better. I guess people didnt understand that it was a last resort kind of thing.

You can also chain the same super, so, essentially, with x factor, you can do the same super 3 times...

[SNAAKE]

some pro asian gamer dude came out of nowhere and actually raped me with Doctor Doom.

probably clockwork(if he was fat) or buktoof(vietnamazing) lol


ultimate looks ok. I will play but I am not buying again to play on PSN. lag is hilariously bad now a days. I blame people on wireless.

[Howard_Casto]

Dangit....  when I saw how much sfiv resembled super street fighter II, I knew they were going to start this crap again, and sure enough.....

Expect us to be talking about the 15th sequel/spinoff to use the sfiv engine a few years from now and how they are still using the same (by that time) blocky character models that they did all the way back when sf IV was released. 

[Mikezilla]

some pro asian gamer dude came out of nowhere and actually raped me with Doctor Doom.

probably clockwork(if he was fat) or buktoof(vietnamazing) lol


ultimate looks ok. I will play but I am not buying again to play on PSN. lag is hilariously bad now a days. I blame people on wireless.

He looked like he was a filipino, kinda chubby, and had glasses. There was a fat asian though, but cmon, those are a dime a dozen at the con.

[SNAAKE]

Mikezilla:
He looked like he was a filipino, kinda chubby, and had glasses.

clockwork LOL at least u lost to some ubber pro

I xcopy his marvel2 team check it out

[Mikezilla]

Ill have to wait til I get home to check it out.

I barely even got to do anything, the way he kept juggling me in the air with doom, it was incredible. 

[shateredsoul1979]

I fail to see how being able to juggle someone really skill is considered fair fighting.. that pissed me off in the arcade, and it should be outlawed in competitions.

---smurfing--- cheaters

[amendonz]

/\ pringles... 

[Donkbaca]

Yeah, i am waiting from now on.  Kinda glad I got MK9 though, because it really has been worth it, even though like a month after it was out you could have picked it up for 29 bucks, and now you can find the CE for 59....

I think I will check this out early next year, figure if it retails for 40, I should be able to pick it up in January for no more than 25.

You guys think they will do a KI reboot?  Seems to be the only popular fighting series that hasn't had a new release. 

[SNAAKE]

^ they should just let capcom make KI vs SF

could use the cvs2 engine but little easier to play to attract nubs.

[amendonz]

hmm.. or cvs3 with 2d hand drawn hd sprites ..i can dream

[Howard_Casto]

You guys think they will do a KI reboot?  Seems to be the only popular fighting series that hasn't had a new release. 

KI has legal issues. 

The defunct midway company afaik has the rights to the arcade versions of the games.  The console ports are co-owned by nintendo and rare, which is now owned by microsoft.  Now I *think* that rare owns the rights to the KI characters and their likenesses, but nintendo still has a co-share of the two actual titles.  So technically speaking so long as they don't try to re-release the original titles, a new KI game could be made. 

BUT

Rare is currently m$'s ---smurfette---.  They have been demoted to the lowely positions of avatar design, kinect games and 360 dash design.  The last game they made was that awful haunted house game with the flashlight.

So long story short I don't see it happening.  Plus KI is kind of a lame rip-off of MK, it isn't quite as timeless as some of these other franchises.

[Malenko]

Now I *think* that rare owns the rights to the KI characters and their likenesses.  Plus KI is kind of a lame rip-off of MK, it isn't quite as timeless as some of these other franchises.

Rare owns the rights to KI and the characters (hence the KI3 "teasers" in Banjo Kazooie:Nuts and Bolts)


How do you figure KI is a lame MK rip off? Storyline and character types are nothing alike, not to mention the actual game play is NOTHING like MK. Aliens, Robots, Time Travel, Werewolves, Raptors, re-animated skeletons, Cybernetically enhanced boxers, 40+ hit combos? Sounds like MK to me. /sarcasm
Is it because there's fatalities? That is a weak link bro

[abrannan]

Remember who you're talking to, Malenko.  Howard thinks Tekken is a wrestling game.  While I'd never doubt his knowledge or expertise on all things Mortal Kombat, that very knowledge and devotion colors his view of other fighting games, in my experience.   

[Malenko]

Remember who you're talking to, Malenko.  Howard thinks Tekken is a wrestling game.  While I'd never doubt his knowledge or expertise on all things Mortal Kombat, that very knowledge and devotion colors his view of other fighting games, in my experience.   

Im pretty nutty about Mortal Kombat myself, but meh, KI is nothing like MK

[Mikezilla]

I fail to see how being able to juggle someone really skill is considered fair fighting.. that pissed me off in the arcade, and it should be outlawed in competitions.

---smurfing--- cheaters

Ok I shouldnt have said juggling, but that was happening, it wasnt when you launch a person, then tag out with all 3 then you hit the ground then you do it all over again. He used Dr. Doom, and he kind of had like an infinite combo thing going against the wall. then he would chain the super that shoots the plasma beam straight into the air, do it again, then X factor then do it again. By the end of the match I was pretty much just watching him beat me senseless, I wasnt even trying to fight back.

Have you seen Hawkeyes super? Its awesome.

[Ginsu Victim]

Im pretty nutty about Mortal Kombat myself, but meh, KI is nothing like MK

At all.

[Howard_Casto]

Remember who you're talking to, Malenko.  Howard thinks Tekken is a wrestling game.  While I'd never doubt his knowledge or expertise on all things Mortal Kombat, that very knowledge and devotion colors his view of other fighting games, in my experience.   

No it doesn't.  Tekken IS a wrestling game.  Fans of Tekken's devotion colors their view of it. 

I don't mean that Ki is a direct rip-off of MK, quite the contrary, it's greatly different on many levels, but it is poorer for the differences and the only high points of the game are the parts it ripped off from MK. 

It has this combo system that is just terrible... makes some of the street fighter games look fair and balanced compared ot it.  It stole MK's general charcter theme (supernatural freaks) and zero of the characters are original.  They are stolen from various games here and there.  Yes they didn't steal them right down to the costume, but if you look at some of the body shapes and some of the moves that do these characters look super familair.

Also even if you don't agree with that, in general the character degins are pretty bland.  You've got boxer guy (who is SO a rip-off of Balrog), ninja guy, (scorpion/subzero's looks, ryu's moves), generic warewolf (blanka anyone?), generic hot babe (heavily influenced by the mk female ninjas in boht her looks and movesets), fire guy and the giant inhuman boss with extra limbs (yeah that doesn't sound famaliar at all).   

A lot of franchises have this problem though... they can't seem to get past karate guy and ninja girl who looks more like a hooker.   The point is, nothing outstanding in the character dept. 

The deep storyline is heavily influenced by MK.  Of course it isn't the same story, but the fact that they try to tie in the tournament in a better way than "a bunch of guys were invited to a tournament" hadn't been done before mk.  Again it's an original story, the problem is compared to Mk it falls flat.  Heck compared to street fighter it falls flat.  Again, fairly generic story.

The "photorealistic" look of MK heavily influenced the decision to make KI a 2.75D game.  Unfortunately, low-end 3d rendering doesn't work as well for realistic humanoids as it does cartoon apes.  So it ended up looking worse because they tried to compete with MK's "gritty realism"  something that no other quality fighter had at the time.

And of course the reason that people initially purchased the game is a direct rip-off, namely MK's fatalities.  Sure at this point there were other games with finishers, but they were all stinking turds that nobody remembers anymore.  MK started it regardless. 

So I'll modify my original statement a little bit for clarity. 

KI was HEAVILY influced by MK and other promenant franchises at the time.  The problem with it is any idea they took from another game wasn't implemented as well as the original.  In terms of original content and gameplay mechanics it doesn't have that much to offer and due to there only being two games released very close to each other, it doesn't have the nostalgia appeal that some of the other franchises have.

So I guess you could say that KI is a lame rip-off of multiple games. 


Don't get me wrong, I had fun with KI (particulalry KI Gold) back in the day.  I just never anticipated the next release nor did I miss it when it faded into obscurity.

Couple that with the fact that M$ owns the company now and that they don't like to take risks, it seems unlikely that we'll get a release.  It might be fun just to see what they could do with it, but I don't think I'll miss it.

[Howard_Casto]

You know, it's been YEARS since I've played the original, so I got curious and looked it up on the old wikipedia.  I knew this was a rip-off of MK but I couldn't remember many of the most obvious ones. 

Just to list a few more. 

Glacius vs Cinder..... yeah you've got two inhuman guys, one with fire based attacks and one with ice based attacks.  Both are neutral in terms of alliance but are being manipualted by a greater evil to destroy one another.  Sound familiar?

Riptor.... it's reptile.  He has variants of most of his attacks and fatalities.  Sure he looks like a dinosaur, but I'll remind you that at the time Jurassic Park was hot.

We already went over Eyedol

Spinal.... they took the iconic skeleton from Jason and the Argonauts and gave him Shang Tsung's abilities.


To be fair, one could argue that TJ thunder and Fulgore influenced Nightwolf and the cyber ninja in MK3. 

But then again Fulgore is a ryu rip-off moves-wise and the cyber ninja's look different and have totally different moves.  Also most of TJ Thunder is a rip-off of Raiden, but I will give you the fact that his character design probably inspired Nightwolf.

Also if you look at thier move lists, particularly the fatalities, all of them are from other games.  The fatalities  in particular are a laundry list of MK II's fatalities with the exception of maybe two or three.


I'll just leave this here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_Instinct 

[shateredsoul1979]

There's a difference between a rip-off and something having influence over a new creation

The flinstones influenced the Simpsons, would anyone argue they are the same tv show? No. In the same way, killer instinct was influenced by mk which was influenced by street fighter which was influenced by something else.

Anyways, I hated Mortal Kombat and loved Killer Instinct

[Mikezilla]

As SS pointed out its a matter of influence. Everything is a rip off of everything. Even though you love MK so much, Killer Instinct was a fun game, and was a lot faster than MK1. Have you played that recently?! ITS SOOO SlOW! Both games are product of their time, KI just hasnt had a chance to have a resurgence like the other franchises due to copyright disputes.

[Howard_Casto]

As SS pointed out its a matter of influence. Everything is a rip off of everything. Even though you love MK so much, Killer Instinct was a fun game, and was a lot faster than MK1. Have you played that recently?! ITS SOOO SlOW! Both games are product of their time, KI just hasnt had a chance to have a resurgence like the other franchises due to copyright disputes.

No... NOBODY plays MK1.....  The first KI came out a year after MKII which is far superior.  Also I don't see how fast equates to better.  I know the newer street fighters of the late 90's are tons faster than the earlier ones, but I prefer the earlier ones because they focus on special moves and not mindless combos. 


And I've still got to disagree about the whole ripoff thing.  It's only "influenced by" when the end product is as good or better than the source of inspiration and it has enough original ideas to hold it's own weight.  KI doesn't... it used elements of more popular franchises to trick people into buying it.  It isn't a terrible game by any means, it is just an average one. 

Think of it this way.   Marvel recently made their big Thor movie and it was suprisingly good.  Now the same weekend of it's release SyFy released "Thor God of Thunder" on their channel as well as on BluRay.  Now thor is public domain seeing as how he's a norse god and all and the stories are fairly different from each other BUT I would consider the syfy version to be a rip-off of the Marvel version.  Why?  Because they took the name and some of the key elements of an expected blockbuster and took advantage of their similarities to sell their crappy film. 

Mind you KI is a lot better than that, but it's the same deal.  At the time MK II was the coolest thing on the planet so Rare took a lot of the aspects of MK, slapped them as features on the back of their box, and used it to sell more copies than the game probably should have. 


Flintstones vs the Simpons is a really poor example btw.  The flintstones was a blatent rip-off of the Honeymooners, the first sitcom.  The simpons is just an animated sitcom influenced by sitcoms of the 80's (the only thing on tv at the time).  So the Simpsons and the Flintstones have nearly nothing in common except for the fact that they are the same genre of show. 

The only reason the two are compared so much is because at the time of the Simpsons debut, the only other cartoon to ever be shown in primetime was the Flintstones. 

Now if I would have said "KI is a ripoff of MK because the are both Street Fighters and MK was released first." then you would be correct, but I listed a dozen or so specific examples. 

[shateredsoul1979]

suuuuuuureeeee

i bet the flintstones had no influence whatsoever in any of the episodes ever

Anyways, the point is it doesn't really matter. People like KI whether it's a ripp off or not. 


Wait is mvc3 a ripp off of king of the fighters? It uses the team fighting idea, on and the tag team feature, that's wrestling. So if it's a rip off, why didn't Midway sue? A ripp off would be infringement..

[Bootay]

And I've still got to disagree about the whole ripoff thing.  It's only "influenced by" when the end product is as good or better than the source of inspiration and it has enough original ideas to hold it's own weight. 

I agree that it is only "influenced by" when the end product has enough original ideas to hold its own weight, but I disagree on that it has to be good or better than the source in order to be "influenced by". There are tons of games/movies/songs influenced by other games/movies/songs that aren't better than the source but hold their own as an original piece.

I think that KI did come out to cash in on the MK craze. There's no doubt about that. But I think it holds it's own as an original game. There are similarities sure. I personally like the MK series better than KI, but KI is still a decent enough game to me.

[Mikezilla]

And I've still got to disagree about the whole ripoff thing.  It's only "influenced by" when the end product is as good or better than the source of inspiration and it has enough original ideas to hold it's own weight. 

I agree that it is only "influenced by" when the end product has enough original ideas to hold its own weight, but I disagree on that it has to be good or better than the source in order to be "influenced by". There are tons of games/movies/songs influenced by other games/movies/songs that aren't better than the source but hold their own as an original piece.

I think that KI did come out to cash in on the MK craze. There's no doubt about that. But I think it holds it's own as an original game. There are similarities sure. I personally like the MK series better than KI, but KI is still a decent enough game to me.

I think KI came out to take advantage of the fighter craze, rather than just MK. I like MK better too, but still, KI was fun to play, and I tripped out when it was released, cause of the graphics, the characters, and the cool combos. Trying to play the original KI now is damn hard to do, but at the time it was  a lot of fun.

[Malenko]

Instead of showing you how wrong you are on all the comparisons (really, Sub Zero and Scorpion were the first to do Fire vs Ice?)
I'll address this one: How is Chief Thunder a rip off of Raiden? (keep in mind, I like MK more than KI but do own the real arcade machines of both)

I'll just list the obvious stuff

Cheif Thunder: (not TJ Thunder)
Shirtless muscular Native American / Indian
Mowhawk made out of feathers
Throws fireballs in the shape of a Phoenix
Screams "PHOENIX!" during fireball tosses , instead of Hadoken
Fatalities: Bolt of Lightning from the heavens, Super Uppercut

Raiden/Rayden:
Average build God who wears a Gi and a blue version of the lead vest you wear at the dentist for Xrays
Sakkat for headgear
Throws Lighting
Screams "yourmothersfromLA" "Getoutofthecar" during superman move
Fatalities: MK1:Lightning from hands for a headpop, MK2: Electrocution Hug , Super Uppercut

The only thing the similar is the super uppercut fatality and Thunder's leaves behind something somewhat comical (like Fulgore's boots) instead of random gibs. When you say a fire breathing Raptor is a ripoff of an acid spitting chameleon that pretends to be a human ninja , it makes it hard to tell if you're being serious.

[Mikezilla]

Good job malenko, thank you for that. 

[Donkbaca]

Everyone really knows that MK was a ripoff of Pit Fighter.

That being said.  HC - You can believe that Tekken is a wrestling game, and if you believe that, fine, just know that nobody agrees with you... anywhere... ever.

All fighting game characters are ripoffs, they are basically all either martial artists or some sort of alien/genetic freak.  Or, in the case of Tekken, a Panda Bear

I always thought that KI was sort of a MK SF hybrid,and I bet that is how it was pitched.  Some of the things that in my opinion were new:

1 - obscene combos, what's the longest combo you can think of in MKII, like 4 hits?  
2 - KI introduced the chained combo which has been copied by pretty much every fighting game since.  
3 -Also, in my opinion, it is the first fighting game that really took juggling to an all new level, yeah you could juggle in MKII, but it didn't seem to be as much a part of the gameplay as it is in KI.

You can't say that it copied the look of MK, in my opinion, RARE games of this era have their own distinctive style.
Riptor is NOTHING like Reptile, none of their moves are the same.  One is a dinosaur, the other is a human formed thing.  
The stories are NOT the same, in the MK mythos, the tournament is held to prevent the armies of outworld from invading earth.  IN KI, the tournament is put on by a corporation.  THe end boss IS from another dimension in KI, like MK, but he's not some ultra-powerful godlike figure, he's just a really strong warrior that the corporation has.  

Also you can say MK ripped off a bunc of stuff from KI - The combo breaker in KI is ripped off in MK9, the idea of pre-programed, chained combo's was ripped off in MK3, the idea of a native american character was ripped off.  MK Ripped off Ultimate Combo's and called them Brutalities in later games.

[Howard_Casto]

Everyone really knows that MK was a ripoff of Pit Fighter.

That being said.  HC - You can believe that Tekken is a wrestling game, and if you believe that, fine, just know that nobody agrees with you... anywhere... Some of the things that in my opinion were new:

1 - obscene combos, what's the longest combo you can think of in MKII, like 4 hits?  
2 - KI introduced the chained combo which has been copied by pretty much every fighting game since.  
3 -Also, in my opinion, it is the first fighting game that really took juggling to an all new level, yeah you could juggle in MKII, but it didn't seem to be as much a part of the gameplay as it is in KI.

I agree 100%.  Those are all the things that are WRONG with KI and those are essentially the only truely original elements. 

Let me just put this out there.  Long combos and complicated combos RUINED the fighting genre.  It used to be you learned the specials, maybe learned one or two very simple combos and exploits and you were just as equipped as any other player and could play at a competative level.  Now if you don't memorize 30 some random combos you are sunk. 

Now I'm not saying we should go to smash bros. level of simplicity, but less combos could only be a good thing.  One of the reasons I like the new MK so much is that they all but did away with combos.  Most combos now are either unnecessary for competition or are true combos created by chaining specials together.

I think this is where the difference of opinion comes in and why you guys are violently defending such a so-so game.  The things you like about KI... those are the things I hate about fighters in general.

[shateredsoul1979]

It's a matter of opinion

for example, I always thought Mortal Kombat was a so-so game. The graphics where where the only interesting part, but they moved so blocky and everything just looked cheap to me. Some other people defend Mortal Kombat game till the bitter end, but I really never saw the appeal of that game or Tekken. I loved many others including soul calibur, dead or alive, bloody roar, king of fighters, etc., but I could just never get into those 2. Was sf4 really that combo heavy? I don't think it was, or maybe my friends just don't play like that. We've been called on "turtling", apparently it's a west coast thing?

[amendonz]

There are long combos but since the hit damage scales they're pointless. And very very hard. There's also the 1/2 frame links where you have to input the move in the 1 or 2 frame window to continue your combo . Remember sf4 runs at 60 fps..  Not easy.

When I think long combos I think mvc2. But those long combos are hype as ---fudgesicle---.
 

[Donkbaca]

Yeah the MvC games really take air juggling to a whole other level.

I agree with you HC.  I like the old days where there weren't chained combos.  It just seemed more fun to string together moves instead of memorizing button pushes, I know that in a way its all just memorizing the right button pushes, but it just feels different. 

MK9 is sort of a mix of both, there are chain combos, but there is a good deal of flexibility in terms of moves you can use to combo off of.

I think in terms of fighting games KI is a top 5 franchise I still think SF is number one, MK is number 2 and Tekken is number 3.  Mk MAY be number one now, because of MK9, but I think as a whole, the SF games are better than the MK games.  Then I would put KI, and then the marvel games, then the SNK games.

I really liked the KI games, thought they were fun to play, still fire it up from time to time.   

That being said, I hope they at least re-release it on XBL like they were talking about doing last year.  It would be nice if they did an HD version of it.

[Malenko]

I agree 100%.  Those are all the things that are WRONG with KI and those are essentially the only truely original elements. 

Other KI innovations:
First Arcade machine with a hard drive
Double Life Bars instead of rounds
Finishers can be done before the round ends (unless we are gonna give Time Killers credit for that)
End Boss playable via code
Stage Select (later copied by MK)
Music Select
Hi Score tracking for Combo count
Dynamic Endings
Make your opponent dance after the fight (maybe not innovation, but original!)


Double Life bars instead of rounds is one of the best most innovative things about KI, which means you probably hate it too. So are you now saying its not an MK rip off, but just a game you don't like? I can accept that.

[Donkbaca]

The double life bars was new, but nobody has really copied it much,
The dance thing I always thought was a sort of ripoff of the friendships from MK, but it is a little bit of a different I guess.

The special moves after getting a combo breaker is a new idea too.

They really should redo this thing, I think it would be pretty neat

[Mikezilla]

Didnt KI come out before there even were friendships? I could be wrong, but I cant check cause Im at work.

I agree, I would play it if they re did the graphics. I know that shouldnt play a big factor, but I booted this up in mame the other day and man, I cant believe I was impressed with that when it came out. Man do times change...

[Malenko]

Didnt KI come out before there even were friendships? I could be wrong, but I cant check cause Im at work.

MKII (friendships) 1993
Killer Instinct (humiliations) 1994

[Mikezilla]

Didnt KI come out before there even were friendships? I could be wrong, but I cant check cause Im at work.

MKII (friendships) 1993
Killer Instinct (humiliations) 1994

Ah. Damn. Ok thank you for proving me wrong. 

[Malenko]

I didnt want the suspense to kill you