CRT Monitor vs Plasma/LCD - the SAFETY considerations...

[torino]

Yea but you can tell where the game runs smooth, then jumps a few frames to catch up

I wouldn't say that video runs "smooth" anywhere. There are constant little hiccups and occasional bigger jumps, but it's never "smooth". I'm telling you, we see things differently, or maybe your LCD is doing some magic.

[kalars123]

I, starting to think maybe its your lcd not doing any magic, because even in that youtubw video, the studdering is noticable, but far from horrid, the ga,e is still playable lol, I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree

[lilshawn]

I, starting to think maybe its your lcd not doing any magic, because even in that youtubw video, the studdering is noticable, but far from horrid, the ga,e is still playable lol, I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree

i wouldn't say that. your forgetting the video is a second generation recode. depending on the origin of the video, the quality of the encoders (yes x2), hell even the speed of the computer that's trying to play MAME AND record video at the same time. 

and all this at 240p *sigh*

I wouldn't doubt the issues with stuttering and dropped frames you are "seeing" in this video are a result of a combination of all these things. you can't process information this much without having some loss. FLV off youtube is probably the worst quality video you can get. it's probably right next to RF directly into a TV.

the only way you would be able to see anything that's directly related to frequency VS display speed would be to have a stream of bitmap screen captures of EVERY frame being output by MAME and having a corresponding frame captured from the monitor. which is going to be impossible due to the way the LCD refreshes the screen image.

i say: if you like to play, play. if you want 100% accuracy, buy the real thing.

maybe the monitor has some post processing that being done to the image before display  maybe there is some kind of hardware v-sync the LCD is doing 

[Donkbaca]

Ok I played Moon Patrol for an hour straight today,

You poor thing.  Hopefully you had plenty of beers...

[yotsuya]

I played a bunch of Moon Patrol on Sunday. The scrolling was smooth, with no tearing, running on an LCD, Mame 142u3.

[torino]

I, starting to think maybe its your lcd not doing any magic, because even in that youtubw video, the studdering is noticable, but far from horrid, the ga,e is still playable lol, I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree

Are you looking at those holes, stones and occasional stage letter scrolling together with the ground layer? That's what you should be looking at, you can't see it very well on other layers or moving sprites, just look at the ground holes and their left edge.

[torino]

I played a bunch of Moon Patrol on Sunday. The scrolling was smooth, with no tearing, running on an LCD, Mame 142u3.

Are you running it at 107%?

Otherwise, how do you explain 56.74 frames can fit in 60 time slots without scroll hiccups and tearing?

[gaijinking]

The funny thing about moon patrol is, since your buggy/tank is constantly bouncing up and down, and there's a lot of action overhead to distract you while you're playing, I think most people don't really notice the hiccups unless they're really looking for them. With that said, Moon Patrol on MAME using a Plasma or LCD is still very playable, if you can overlook constant judder (no screen tearing here with or without vsync). However, If I actually focus on watching the rocks and holes or the letters pass by I start to get a mild headache from the jerkiness. In fact, now I wish I hadn't reminded myself of such an egregious flaw in one of my favorite arcade games. But that's the trade off you get with emulation. What actually bothers me more than judder in Moon Patrol are the hiccups in the audio of Donkey Kong and Dig Dug. On DK and DD they're the first things you notice right when you first start playing. Anyhoo, I don't mean to sidetrack, and turn this into a gripe fest. But I am very curious to try out the new HLSL filtering.

[yotsuya]

I played a bunch of Moon Patrol on Sunday. The scrolling was smooth, with no tearing, running on an LCD, Mame 142u3.

Are you running it at 107%?

Otherwise, how do you explain 56.74 frames can fit in 60 time slots without scroll hiccups and tearing?

I'm just running it as the default setup, and it plays just fine. I can't vouch for anyone else, but I notice no hiccups on my rig at all.

[gaijinking]

My point is, and what Torino is saying, is that if you're running Moon Patrol on an LCD, Plasma, or any display that is fixed at 60hz, it may seem like it's playing smoothly, but there is slight juddering due to the refresh mis-match. I don't get any tearing, but if I look for the judder (watch the letters that scroll by closely) it is always there. If I don't think to look for it, I won't notice it at all, and think the game is playing fine, but again, it's still there. However, I'd love to see a video of it playing without judder on an LCD if you have a video of it. But I'm guessing yours judders, but you're just not really noticing it. And again, it's really really subtle when you're playing the game, but if you know what to look for it's definitely there.

[Donkbaca]

If its not noticeable, who cares?  Its moon patrol.  I wouldn't base an LCD vs CRT decision on some unnoticeable visual defects in moon patrol

[gaijinking]

"If its not noticeable, who cares?  Its moon patrol."

Well, that's what I'm saying, but to say it's not there is untrue. Why the Moon Patrol hate? It's definitely one of my all time favorites.

[torino]

If its not noticeable, who cares?  Its moon patrol.  I wouldn't base an LCD vs CRT decision on some unnoticeable visual defects in moon patrol

It's not just Moon Patrol but almost any game. People who care about it are the ones who are not visually numb, people who value authentic game play, and people who care about safety and wish to avoid headaches, seizures, cervical cancer and brain tumor caused by LCDs inability to properly sync with native arcade refresh rates.

[Donkbaca]

Holy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---!  You mean if I play moon patrol on my slim cab I will get cervical cancer! 

[Vigo]

Well, people were all taking about Polybius as this fabled dangerous game, but really they should have been watching out for the moon patrol. 

[Donkbaca]

I mean being visually numb is something I can live with, but the thought of growing a cancerous cervix definitely has me rethinking the whole LCD thing.  You think I will be okay if I just avoid playing moon patrol?  Another reason to not play moon patrol in m book

[torino]

Holy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---!  You mean if I play moon patrol on my slim cab I will get cervical cancer! 

Yes, especially during pregnancy. You have to get rid of that LCD, if not for you, then do it for your baby!

[Vulgar Soul]

Ugh, please tell me that cancer thing is a cruel joke. If playin MAME on an LCD is a cancer risk, than I think we're all due for an MRI scan.

[kalars123]

heh having that cpu running at 2.45ghz next to the boys is more dangerous than and LCD, for the uninformed, microwaves operated at 2.45ghz 

[torino]

Well, people were all taking about Polybius as this fabled dangerous game, but really they should have been watching out for the moon patrol. 

Polybius, property of U.S. government.



It has only one button, and that's enough.

[kalars123]

and a meme is born LMAO 

[lilshawn]

It has only one button, and that's enough.

It's labeled "OH GOD MAKE IT STOP"