Monitors make me hate this whole thing.

[Guywiththegun]

Yeah, I just had to vent. I've pinpointed the problem. Its the monitor. It turns the wide-eyed dreams of my inner-child into the nightmares of the pessimistic bitter adult I've become.

Arcade monitors are not worth what they cost. Not even close. I wouldn't pay more than $200 for one without feeling ripped off. They are ludicrous in price. Don't tell me it makes sense that my 42" 1080p 120hz flat-screen is cheaper than a 27" tube that can't go beyond 800x640 pixels.

Tube TV's are old and outdated. S-Video sucks, apparently, and good luck finding one that will come on with your computer and will stay on the same channel. In fact, good luck finding any without the ---meecrob--- selling it putting a $250 price-tag on it like its 1998. Oh and its so much FUN thinking of ways to mount that monstrosity!

LCD TV's are all widescreen and you might have to worry about lag, just because God hates arcade machines.

LCD Monitors, I'm leaning towards . .  frankly because every option is an absolute disaster in its own way, so why not stick with the one that won't make you want to get black-out drunk and forget you ever set foot in an arcade?

As a side-note, as you can see I'm in the market for something to fit into my Kangaroo machine, which I decided to (once again) undertake but is already starting to get under my skin. Advice, comments, etc. are all appreciated.

I'm thinking (and this may sound crazy) of getting a big LCD monitor and turning it vertical. Then I'll play the 4:3 games with the top and bottom of the monitor cut off. I just need to know what size TV would give me a good 20"+ display like that.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

Start looking on things like Craigslist for a 21" VGA computer monitor? I picked up one for around $30USD a while back. It was a little dim, but an 1/8th turn of the brightness pot on the flyback brought it up good as new.

[Well Fed Games]

I feel your pain. Buying TVs off of craigslist is hard as the best demo I've gotten is a view of static in the person's house before I bought it, to find out the geometry is off or the colors are bad, or the channel/power return was inconsistent... and try to sell it right back on craigslist. Finally found a 19" tv that mounted right in my pac cab with power return, and I decided that composite video was good enough (it really is), as the set met enough of the requirements to stop looking for the white whale. And learning about different video card sockets (pci-e, etc?) Pain in the  .

Just wanted to commiserate, I think you summed up the monitor challenge well. Only advice I have is that the later Sylvania CRT TVs have been my best luck for power/input return.

[Donkbaca]

Welcome to the darkside.

If its an old Kangaroo machine, a 19 inch 4:3 lcd would be a good solution.  You can go up to 21.5" on a 4:3 screen and they are cheap used.  You can get a 19 inch for under a hundred bucks and a 21.5 incher for under 200.

21.5 inches is PLENTY big enough, especially when you consider most classics were played on 19 inch crt's that probably had 17.5 inches viewable..

Not to mention the weight of the damn CRT screens. 

Just get a LCD and don't look back.

[Guywiththegun]

The problem is I can never settle. You have brilliant people on here and throughout the net posting these amazing machines, making it seem like its easy. It makes you want to go for the best option . . problem is, the best option is $2000 in total, with years of wood-working experience and knowledge in wiring and soldering, etc.

For someone like me who doesn't know how to build a set of shelves, its impossible to match up.

I want my machine to look good and sleek, but I need to accept that its not gonna win any prizes here, or even be celebrated at all here. A self-built arcade machine with an LCD monitor and my Hotrod SE as controls would have made me weep in joy 5 years ago . . what the hell changed?

[Donkbaca]

You are just psyching ourself out.  Nobody builds a masterpiece with their first build.  The most important thing is that it plays games you want, isn't a pain in the ass to keep up, and is acceptable enough in appearance that your wife lets you put it in your house.

The woodworking is a challenge, but go slow, and take your time and you will learn fast enough.

The wiring and soldering are really simple, especially now.  Honestly, you can build without soldering a thing

Personally, I think the best looking, sleekest cabs have lcd's in them.  But get a 4:3 LCD.

[Mikezilla]

I got a dynamo cab, and luckily, I had a 27" CRT lying around with S-video that I didnt need. I decased it and luckily it fit in the frame that came with the cab(it had a monitor, but didnt work) and viola. Everything worked perfectly. The bummer though was getting it into the thing by myself, making sure everything lined up etc. The thing was more awkward than it was heavy, and I didnt discharge it, so I was afraid of getting a jolt. Everything worked out though, but I know what you mean. If that didnt work then who knows, I would just have a pile of junk in my garage  .

I do know what you mean about how peoples projects end up looking, most on here put mine to shame. SHAME. But like Donk said, as long as it looks decent, plays the games you want, and is easy to upkeep, who cares. I had to cut a metal CP with a dye grinder in order for it to fit on the cab. I have no wood working skills whatsoever, but hey, sometime down the road Ill make something nice, with LED buttons etc, but for now, this one works.

Hell, I had to rely on a friend to help me with the guts of the actual machine. 

[DNA Dan]

CRTs are definitely for the more die hard enthusiasts. They present a lot more challenges unless it's a reworked existing arcade cab. I think unless you're building a dedicated cab, using NOS, leafs and all OEM stuff, it's just not worth the hassle to be that "genuine" for a MAME cab or something that's going to play multiple games. The sooner you choose which path to head down, the less hassle you'll have down the road.

[krick]

The problem is I can never settle. You have brilliant people on here and throughout the net posting these amazing machines, making it seem like its easy. It makes you want to go for the best option . . problem is, the best option is $2000 in total, with years of wood-working experience and knowledge in wiring and soldering, etc.

For someone like me who doesn't know how to build a set of shelves, its impossible to match up.

I want my machine to look good and sleek, but I need to accept that its not gonna win any prizes here, or even be celebrated at all here. A self-built arcade machine with an LCD monitor and my Hotrod SE as controls would have made me weep in joy 5 years ago . . what the hell changed?

You're doing it all wrong.  Find an amusement auction in your area and scout out a working arcade machine.

Basically, you want a good clean monitor with no burn-in, a large control panel, and no water damage or rot at the bottom of the cabinet.  If you pick a crappy game that nobody likes, you can sometimes get really good deals.

I picked up my cabinet at an amusement auction.  It has a clean 25 inch standard res arcade monitor, a wide 4-player sized control panel, a 4-slot coin door, and the wood on the bottom of the cabinet is in pristine condition.  It came with a Capcom shooter called "Gigawing".  After taxes and auction fees, I paid $250 total.

At the same auction, cabinets in much worse condition sold for a lot more money because they had desirable games in them.  And by desirable, I mean desirable to an arcade operator, not a collector.  Neo-Geo cabs sold for crazy money even when they were beat to hell.

Here's what my cabinet looked like after cleaning it up...





After getting my cabinet, I added the following...

1) A PC running MAME
2) Ultimarc ArcadeVGA
3) Ultimarc JPAC
4) USB powered amplifier (a PC speaker hack)
5) Two 4-inch shielded arcade cabinet speakers from Bob Roberts (the old ones were shot)

[Guywiththegun]

I actually grabbed a SFII at a warehouse a year or so ago. It was an absolute nightmare. It just wouldn't power on, for seemingly no reason at all. It sucked the life out of me everytime I passed it, and it ended up on CL about a month later. Thankfully, I banished the demon from my home.

I was an idiot to take a gamble like that, not knowing if it worked . . but its made me weary of going with an older used machine. I just KNOW something would stop working a few days in, and nobody, not here, not in real life, would know what was wrong with it. I asked everyone here, electricians, other people in the hobby . . Nobody knew what was wrong with that GD Street Fighter. Sometimes I wish I didn't sell it, but took it out somewhere to throw off a cliff, for peace of mind, knowing it would never harm anyone's soul again.

[krick]

At the amusement auction I went to, every game that was sold as working was able to be powered on so you could check it out and play it.  They had the floor open for about 3 hours before the auction started so that everyone could thoroughly check things out.

Arcade cabinets really aren't that complicated.  If you convert a JAMMA cabinet to run mame, you pretty much remove all the complicated stuff except for the arcade monitor.  There's TONS of information on the web about how to fix arcade cabinets.  Plus there's great forums like this one where you can ask questions and get help.

I've been lucky with my monitor.  The only issue I has was a failed flyback transformer.  I'm fairly handy with a soldering iron and I was able to replace it myself using a part I purchased from Bob Roberts.  If I couldn't fix it myself, I'm sure I could have found someone on these boards who was fairly local who would have fixed it for me for a few bucks plus pizza and beer.  Or, I imagine I could have taken the monitor out and hauled it to a local TV repair guy, though it probably would have cost me a bit more.

Much of it comes down to your level of patience.  If you just want to play games without any hassles, then you probably want a PS3 or an XBox 360, not an arcade cabinet.  I'm sure I speak for most of the people on BYOAC when I say that half the fun of owning an arcade cabinet is tinkering with it.  Heck, I spend more time fiddling with it than I do actually playing games.

[Guywiththegun]

My frustrations have come from my own ignorance, and dead-ends. It would be a dream to just know exactly what to do, and start doing it. Truth is, there aren't any resources for somebody starting 100% fresh into this sort of thing. Everything seems to be geared towards people with prior experience in wood-working, wiring, or even the machines themselves.

This is something I've wanted for a long time, but I just keep hitting dead-ends. You'd think this was my first monitor/TV for this thing, right? Ha! This is my third. The first was a crap TV that had burn (and had huge speakers on the side . . what was I thinking??). The second was an awesome 4:3 LCD TV, which ended up having this weird bleed . . and tons of burn. It ended up going back. Hell if you add the monitor on the SF I had, that's 3 absolute disasters in Arcade display.

Its frustrating.

I just built my second PC, and one of the things I've learned is you just gotta pick the parts. You can't wait for the next 'deal' or listen to every last person who's got something to say. This is the whole problem. I just gotta move forward. I'm gonna get a 21" 4:3 LCD.

[Donkbaca]

21.5 inch 4:3



Love mine

[krick]

My frustrations have come from my own ignorance, and dead-ends. It would be a dream to just know exactly what to do, and start doing it. Truth is, there aren't any resources for somebody starting 100% fresh into this sort of thing. Everything seems to be geared towards people with prior experience in wood-working, wiring, or even the machines themselves.

There are resources for people starting 100% fresh.  Check out the book "Project Arcade" by Saint, BYOAC's benevolent dictator...  First Edition or Second Edition.  Also, you have the entire BYOAC community at your disposal.

The vast majority of us started out not knowing jack about arcade machines.  We did our time, reading forums like this one, buying Saint's book, asking questions, and doing research.  Eventually, we gathered a critical mass of knowledge and made the plunge.

In my opinion, the easiest way to get a proper start in this hobby is by getting a working JAMMA-wired cabinet and "MAME-ing" it.  The ArcadeVGA and J-PAC make the experience as close to plug and play as humanly possible.  If that's still too hard, then I don't know what to tell you.

The problem that people see those amazing hand-crafted cabinets on the Internet and they think they can do the same thing with no skills or experience.  It doesn't work that way.  I understand your frustration, but I can't help but being blunt...  this is NOT an easy (or cheap) hobby.  It takes a lot of work and you're constantly learning new things, as well as making mistakes and (hopefully) learning from them.  If you want something that doesn't take any work, just buy one of the pre-made home arcade cabinets and call it a day.   

[Blanka]

21.5 inch 4:3



Love mine

21.3.. the ones with IPS panel are scarce (Philips, NEC and Viewsonic made IPS 21.3 inches). The PVA versions have very nice contrast, but are laggy (45ms input lag). Still available, great looking and FAST, the HP LP2065.
With a good LCD panel, good brightness setting, and decent bezelling, it really does not matter if you mount 16:9 or 16:10 screens. I have a 27 inch screen 16:10 in my cab, and the black of the screen almost goes seamless with the bezel. You really don't mind the black bars left and right. So if you want fancy... try a Fujitsu P27T-6 or Dell U2711

[Guywiththegun]

I like the idea of getting a bigger LCD that will equal about a 4:3 24" or so . . but is there a cheaper option besides the Fujitsu P27T-6 or Dell U2711? Those prices are out of control!

[DNA Dan]

The cheapest you're probably going to do in that size is a 30" 16X9 television or a 28" 16:10 monitor. I think the 16X10 monitors are still pretty pricey, so the TV might be your cheapest route. Issue here will be finding a panel that has good viewing angles.

You might want to consider the Wells Gardner replacement arcade LCDs. You can get a 32" widescreen which would make your 4:3 viewing area just over 26". It comes at a cost though.. the internal dimensions of your cab need to be at least  28" wide. http://patriotgaming.com//catalog/product_info.php?cPath=10_655_969&products_id=4488&osCsid=719b3905570de7b104a186a6ec205a92

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

The cheapest you're probably going to do in that size is a 30" 16X9 television or a 28" 16:10 monitor. I think the 16X10 monitors are still pretty pricey, so the TV might be your cheapest route. Issue here will be finding a panel that has good viewing angles.

You might want to consider the Wells Gardner replacement arcade LCDs. You can get a 32" widescreen which would make your 4:3 viewing area just over 26". It comes at a cost though.. the internal dimensions of your cab need to be at least  28" wide. http://patriotgaming.com//catalog/product_info.php?cPath=10_655_969&products_id=4488&osCsid=719b3905570de7b104a186a6ec205a92

If you were going to spend that much on the LCD panel for the 4:3 viewing area, why not get the 29" Makvision SVGA for $100 less?
http://www.xgaming.com/store/arcade-parts-and-accessories/product/weiya-29-flat-screen-crt-arcade-monitor/

I have one of them, I think it looks fantastic. It's large enough that vertical games are large 'full sized' and has enough lines of resolution to display them as such with no loss of resolution. Dreamcast/Naomi games look pretty damn sweet too.

[Guywiththegun]

Still far too pricey, but thanks. How about a 24" monitor? Would the 4:3 size be about a 21"?

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

A 24" will give you more like 19.5:
http://www.displaywars.com/24-inch-16x9-vs-19,5-inch-4x3




Here's a 27" for $260 after a coupon good until 5/23:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824016155

That would give you around 22" of 4:3 space:
http://www.displaywars.com/27-inch-16x9-vs-22-inch-4x3

[Guywiththegun]

Awesome link! I was looking for something like that.

If you go to 24" 16x10, it seems to equal the height of a 21" though. Isn't a 24" monitor 16x10 rather than 16x9?

[DNA Dan]

If you go to 24" 16x10, it seems to equal the height of a 21" though. Isn't a 24" monitor 16x10 rather than 16x9?

Depends on the make and model. I have seen 24" in both aspect ratios

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

http://www.displaywars.com/24-inch-16x10-vs-21-inch-4x3


Yeah, a 16:10 24" will have a ~21" 4:3 space (0.94% smaller diagonal).

[DNA Dan]

If you go this 16:10 route look for resolutions of 1920X1200 (as opposed to 1080).

Here are the ones from Newegg. I don't know about lag on these larger LCDs, but something to keep in consideration before purchasing. Also the viewing angle.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007617+600030619+600012349&QksAutoSuggestion=&ShowDeactivatedMark=False&Configurator=&IsNodeId=1&Subcategory=20&description=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&srchInDesc=

 

[Guywiththegun]

Why no 1080? Is there some kind of problem with it?

I found an awesome deal for an Emachines 23 inch monitor ($100 after Staples coupon), but its 16.9. Using displaywars, a 21 inch 4:3 actually looks way bigger in comparison. Who knew that made such a difference?

[DNA Dan]

1920X1080 is a 16:9 aspect
1920X1200 is a 16:10 aspect

Just trying to show you how you can tell if it's one or the other. A lot of places just have the resolution listed.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

Why no 1080? Is there some kind of problem with it?

I found an awesome deal for an Emachines 23 inch monitor ($100 after Staples coupon), but its 16.9. Using displaywars, a 21 inch 4:3 actually looks way bigger in comparison. Who knew that made such a difference?

A reason to go with the higher resolutions would be the DPI of the image you'll be looking at.. The higher the resolution (at the same physical size), the smaller the pixels. The smaller the pixels the control you have over the look of various 'filters' and 'scanlines'.

Since a monitor cannot be 'upgraded' without being replaced, if you can spare the extra money for a higher resolution screen, it's probably worth it. You will be standing closer to this monitor than you would a regular television, so the individual pixels would be easier to see.

[DNA Dan]

If you can do the 24" 16:10 ratio you can find a few new @ ~$300

If not, that's why many people move to the 20" 4:3 monitors. Two monitors that come to mind are the HP LP2065 and the Dell 2007FP. Both can be had on ebay used fairly reasonable. <$200 There was a deal over at Geeks.com for some refurbed 2065's @ $89 + shipping. They are now sold out, but it's a good place to watch for refurbs.

Remember, the 24" only gives you 1" over the 20" 4:3 aspect, but the drawback is the added width of the cab's interior. If you are rotating the monitor, this is a deal breaker unless you have a wide cab.

[Guywiththegun]

Yeah, looks like going to 16:10 is a big price increase. There are some floating around ebay for <200 but spending that much on something used seems like a gamble.

Man, it would be sweet to go from 4:3 classics to full 24" Street Fighter 4 though (and other newer games).

The 20" 4:3 refurb sounds great. I actually just found that thread, but yeah, sold out . . I'm not sure I wanna deal with painting it black anyway.

I'm keeping an eye on this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/310319560650?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dp4712.m570.l1313%26_nkw%3D310319560650%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1

I'm just gonna keep an eye out for a good 20", 21.3" in 4:3 or a 24" in 16:10. I think I'd be happy with any of those.

[coliveira]

"Arcade cabinets really aren't that complicated.  If you convert a JAMMA cabinet to run mame, you pretty much remove all the complicated stuff except for the arcade monitor.  There's TONS of information on the web about how to fix arcade cabinets.  Plus there's great forums like this one where you can ask questions and get help."

+1

I'm into my nephews' mame for $350.  $200 on UMK3 and roughly $150 in JPac, video cards, etc.  Also, I have the board to sell (which seems like it'd go for around $100 on ebay - which I'm planning to keep in case I'd like to convert it back at some point).  Anyway, it's got a 25" WG monitor and even I was able to pull it off (after a bit of trouble).  Not a bad way to go to save yourself a lot of headaches...  My only regret was not holding out for a 4 player...

[Guywiththegun]

That sounds like a wonderful option, but for me personally, it turned out to be an even bigger nightmare than this Kangaroo cab. I've had my fill of poking around in decades old electronics. I'll just stick to poking around in decades old wood. (there's a joke in there somewhere)

[coliveira]

Ha ha.  Either way, I'm a big fan of this thread.  Glad to know I'm not the only burnt ass...

[Guywiththegun]

Yeah, this thread has been therapeutic for me. Its got me settled on an LCD, and I needed a change from the usual "scrap wood to BEST ARCADE EVER in 3 pages" threads. Not that those aren't awesome threads, just frustrating when you have an empty cab sitting in your basement for 2 years that you don't know what you're doing with . . meanwhile people are busting them out in a weekend!

[Blanka]

There was a deal over at Geeks.com for some refurbed 2065's @ $89 + shipping. They are now sold out, but it's a good place to watch for refurbs.

That is a very recent change. They were available at HP one month ago. But I do not see them any more. Holy crap: what a bad website they have! Does not work at all.

[Guywiththegun]

UPDATE.

Grabbed this off fleabay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=290567932866&si=XuHZOVF85HJm5sOrS3hE19aIUKg%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

Any thoughts?

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-SyncMaster-245BW-24-inch-Monitor/dp/B000P6MOG2
the reviews on amazon seem to have an agreeable distribution.

[BurgerKingDiamond]

just get a TV from a pawn shop (dirt cheap, they practically give them away) and use s-video. The picture quality is totally acceptable for MAME. Only the hard core video phile people would complain. If your PC doesn't have s-video out, buy a graphics card with s-video for $40 off newegg.. You would have no problem doing everything for under $100.

I guarantee the results will be better than a LCD.

[BurgerKingDiamond]

i posted without reading the whole thread. apparently you bought an LCD. I still stand by my post though. a widescreen LCD will never look as good as a 4:3 CRT, even with s-video.

[Guywiththegun]

I came to the conclusion that there are drawbacks and advantages to each choice, and just went with the one I felt suited me best. For old arcade games, my ideal choice would be an arcade monitor, followed by a TV, but I don't want to get into de-casing or mounting or building a shelf. I just don't have the knowledge yet. Beyond that, with the advantages of an LCD (hi-def, newer games in full 24" wide-screen, hi-res front ends and programs, easy to install, fool-proof, etc), I can live with just throwing up a MAME RGB effect for the old classics. Its just something I had to settle on.

If I had decided on a TV, right now I'd be scratching my head wondering how I'm gonna get that thing into that little Kangaroo machine, with the same indecision and confusion that has stalled me for 2 years. Maybe after this project is finally done, somewhere down the line, I'll consider something different with the knowledge I will have surely gained . . but to be honest, once I jump from classic Street Fighter II in 21" 4:3 to high resolution Super Street Fighter 4 in full 24" wide-screen with a few button presses, I think I'll be ok with the choice.

[tcancian]

Apparently you're raging like a madman at CRTs but have you ever considered that given an ArcadeVGA you could pick a RGB to YPrPb transcoder and use just ANY SDTV CRT and it will look just as good as an arcade monitor? At least as far as Neo Geo goes it would be very close to pixel perfect. Neo-Geo runs at 320x224, if you use such setup, you would get 320x240. Other games would have to be scaled or centered but still, it's a nice alternative for arcade monitors, which are costly and hard to do maintance. I'll be picking up that setup soon, as soon as I'm a full member I'll post a WTB at Trade/Sell, I could then post some results. I'll use a 38" Sony CRT TV through YPrPb (S-Video DOES SUCK).