New Cabinet Build Material

[mdwg2020]

So everything that I read says MDF to build a cabinet. I am getting ready to go to the hardware store and want to verify this is the best "wood" to build an arcade cabinet out of.

Thanks!

[garnerb350]

Did you read the comparisons?

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Wood_products

Each one has its pros & cons...

I myself used plywood...

[saint]

I recommend MDO (aka "signboard"). More expensive, easier to work with. You get the nice flat easy to work with surface of MDF, and the lighter weight and sturdiness of plywood. I had to special order mine, but it was worth it. I doubt I'll ever use anything but MDO in the future.

[VanillaGorilla]

Whatever MDF derivative you use, make SURE to go with the lightweight version. I know lightweight MDF is available, not sure about MDO. The paper surface is nice on the MDO, but the MDF has such a smooth surface to begin with... I'd take the lightweight over paper if that was the only option. Your back will thank you if you ever need to move the cabinet!

[saint]

The other bit I like about MDO over MDF is that MDO's plywood core doesn't turn into a dust cloud like MDF will when routed, and is also easier on your router since it's not filled with glue or whatever they use to hold the MDF fibers together. It's a minor consideration honestly if you're just building one cabinet, but I noticed the difference when routing the t-molding groove. Also, MDO is water resistant as it's meant for use as outdoor signs.

[mdwg2020]

Thanks for all the info. Sounds like I would need to special order the MDO board. I kind of like the idea of using a mix between the plywood and MDF (MDF for exterior and plywood for interior parts).

Now, for the plywood approach, it looks like it would be tough to paint and get that nice sheen to it. What are the options there to make the cabinet look better and not have the rough random texture? Would you cover it would some form of laminate?

[8BitMonk]

I recommend black melamine coated particle board which is what most kits you'd buy today are made out of. One huge advantage is not having to finish the outside of the cab, it looks great as-is without having to laminate, paint etc. It's a bit more expensive and can be a little tricky to find, I paid $46.89 per 4'x8' sheet, but well worth it.

I'd also highly recommend you use a Kreg Jig for the joins. It's really easy to use and with it you get an extremely solid professional join with no screw holes on the outside of the cab.

See the thread below for more info.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=105908.msg1122840;topicseen#msg1122840

[DNA Dan]

I looked for 5/8" MDF at local hardware places and it just isn't really available in my area. 5/8" furniture grade plywood is virtually everywhere.

[mdwg2020]

Yeah, I think it is 3/4" here. From the sounds of it, the sheets way a ton (90 lbs). That would be one heavy cabinet.

I am going to check the Kreg Jigs out and see what that is. Still not 100% sure which route I want to go, but this has been very interesting to say the least.

Do you find the particle board holds up well enough? All I can think of is a cheap office desk that I buy from Wal-Mart and how brittle the particle board is.

[DNA Dan]

IMO using a Kreg Jig on particle board is a very weak joint. I think you'd be better off with either a dado cut or a biscuit-reinforced flush seam. I would then use glue in either case and screw from the opposite side of the panel into the edge.

I have seen those types of holes drilled with MDF. There isn't much meat left on the material when you use a kreg jig. Then again, structure is everything. If a poorly designed cab is relying on a few placed kreg seams, then it's not going to stand up. Those joints can only take so much weight and deflection.

[mdwg2020]

The dado cuts seem to very sturdy for perpendicular boards. How is drilling into the side (edge) of the MDF?

Seems like the dado cut on the shelf on the inside would be ideal. Then use some form of "L" bracket on the inside and/or countersink screws on the exterior into the side of the board in the dado cut.

I am personally trying to build a version of a pedestal cabinet that will ultimate plug into a large flat screen television. So it really is a box cabinet with a oversized control panel on the top to handle either 2 or 4 joystick-six button setups with the trackball in the middle.

[DNA Dan]

Drilling into the edge of MDF is okay. If I had to rank the materials in terms of strength I would say solid wood>plywood>MDF>particle board. In some cases MDF can be just as strong as plywood. It's a very dense material and the pressures used to make it are far beyond particle board. It's uniform througout, so you won't find any flawed areas like you might on a cheap ply.

If you make a box shape for your pedestal, I would keep two sides slightly recessed so you can make your dado cut like 3-4 inches from the corner edge. Something like a capital "H" but with two boards in the middle. The problem with a two-sided dado cut on the end of the corner is you risk the screws "mushrooming" out the corner. Especially on thinner material. This type of seam on a corner can also be pretty weak. If you insist on having your sides "corner to corner" most people gravitate towards a rabbit cut, similar to a drawer.

 

[garnerb350]

Now, for the plywood approach, it looks like it would be tough to paint and get that nice sheen to it. What are the options there to make the cabinet look better and not have the rough random texture? Would you cover it would some form of laminate?

When i was creating mine...and with my noobish intellect...I figured i would use and go with what was readily accessible... I went to the local Lowes and when i did my comparison... I looked at MDF and cabinet grade plywood...3/4 inches thick... MDF was cheaper but MAN it was heavy... I went and made the choice with plywood, because i knew that in the back of my head i was worried that if i use MDF and if it got wet, i would be screwed...

My plan was to paint the cab and then using a large format printer, I was going to apply 16inch sideart. I bought some sandpaper (different grades) and i sanded the wood down to a smooth finish. I bought semi-gloss black paint that also had primer included and applyed 3 thin coats and I was satisfied by the finish...

If i ever get the time to start on a new cab...I think i will try MDF and see how it will go... Good luck with your build and if you ever get stuck, ALOT of people here are here to help get you back on track...

[mdwg2020]

Thanks for all the info guys. I think I will be looking at some form of plywood or the MDF. I will make that decision once I get to the hardware store.

DNA Dan, you must have some great wood-working skills to know all these various techniques. I had to google everyone of them. I definitely plan on having everything inset, so that the T-Molding ultimately does what I want it to do and looks correct. I was thinking I would definitely dado the bottom shelf cabinet, but seems like you could also dado vertically the front and back (those would be the inset panels) is that right? Or would there be zero benefit? I was thinking it my provide some extra support from left-to-right, but perhaps not.

[8BitMonk]

IMO using a Kreg Jig on particle board is a very weak joint. I think you'd be better off with either a dado cut or a biscuit-reinforced flush seam. I would then use glue in either case and screw from the opposite side of the panel into the edge.

I have seen those types of holes drilled with MDF. There isn't much meat left on the material when you use a kreg jig. Then again, structure is everything. If a poorly designed cab is relying on a few placed kreg seams, then it's not going to stand up. Those joints can only take so much weight and deflection.

The Kreg Jig joint is incredibly strong though I've used 3/4" particle board not 5/8". I've built 3 cabs this way using the Ultimate Arcade II Plans from Mameroom and transported them with no problems. They are somewhat heavy but definitely rock solid. With every option there are trade-offs. The biggest advantage to the particle board is that it looks professional without needing to paint, texture or laminate the outside of the cab. I've gone that route before myself and in my opinion it's a hassle that is not only more work but also doesn't look as good as the particle board.

[DNA Dan]

That's where I think design comes into play. Those cabs at mameroom look very solid in their design. So the kreg jig particle board route is okay. I guess to clarify I meant that those types of joints on particle board can be weak if used alone. If there are other supporting pieces then it can make for a pretty stong cab depending upon how it's done. Typical DIYers however usually lack structural engineering skills to produce such a design. If you use a more solid material then it isn't so susceptible to the design and would be more forgiving.

I am no woodworking expert by any means, however I have made my own tables, jewelry boxes, cabinets, etc. so I am familiar with a lot of the techniques. 

one easy way to make a strong podium would be to make it like the roman numeral 2 looking from above like this " II ". This is simply four pieces of wood and four dado cuts. You could stop the vertical pieces in the middle just short of the top and put a horizontal piece in there. This way you can still add your CP and have the wires all concealed. This would also keep the sides flush all the way to the top. If however you want people to stand on the sides as well, then I think it makes more sense to have the CP overhang over the edge. This basic shape works good for this too. Some things to think about are people's feet. You need a recess down there for their feet to stand comfortably at the podium or the CP needs some serious overhang. Also if the top is going to be angled, think about how this is going to work for people on the sides. That basic double I-beam shape is a pretty stable base support that can be quite adaptable. Typically the sides are fatter at the bottom and narrower at the top to increase stability.

Reason I am thinking 5/8 is because I am planning to laminate. 5/8 + 1/16 + 1/16 = ~3/4 with some glue in there. This works nicely with the 3/4 T-molding. Never thought about just painting a cab. Sounds easy enough and certainly cheaper. You'll get a smoother finish with MDF over particle board, however water resistance is always an issue with these (and really any) pressed materials.

[Gray_Area]

My highschool shop teacher said that anything built square didn't need screws.

@mdwg2020: in case you didn't see it, there's a 'woodworking' sub forum above.

[mdwg2020]

Sorry, I do see the woodworking forum.

As an update, I made my podium console tomorrow, at least the box component. I am going to try and get the controls in today and mount the CP. I will put a picture of the raw finished cabinet online this evening. Its going to work perfect!

[eds1275]

I made my podium console tomorrow

+1, that's really impressive!

[ubermick]

I looked for 5/8" MDF at local hardware places and it just isn't really available in my area. 5/8" furniture grade plywood is virtually everywhere.

Ironically, every store I called told me the same thing - no idea where I could snag 5/8" MDF, but they certainly didn't carry it, and hey, how about using 19/32 plywood instead. But lo and behold, when I was in Home Depot last week, there it was - sheets and sheets of 5/8" MDF. Same story at another Home Depot, they had tons of it, despite telling us they didn't carry it/never heard of it.

So six sheets were scooped, and work began on two cabs... Be snagging the laminate at some point today! 

[eds1275]

That's excellent!

I always read stories of not being able to find what are [in my mind] standard sizes. I live on an island and still have no troubles finding the things I need - I suppose I'm lucky but I deifinitley take it for granted.

[DNA Dan]

Well guys I finally got my Kreg Mini and I must say I have to retract my statement in reply #9. I did some playing around with it real quickly on my 5/8" particle board and it was a pretty strong joint. I may still use biscuits on the longer pieces just to minimize warping stress. I'd also like to say the Kreg mini is all you need with the right dimensions. Play with it on some scrap wood and get it just right, then use the Kreg screws. I think their screws are part of what makes this a stong joint. It's a flush head, not a trumpet shank. I did tear some screws out, but this was without the clutch on my driver set right. I think if you set the clutch just right, have the Kreg dialed in on how deep or how far from the edge to drill and use Kreg screws, you'd be set. This is the route I am taking. Should save me lots of time instead of measuring out for a dado routing cut. Thanks for the tips!

[rmusick]

Me Personally, I will either use plywood or Particle board from now on.  Its really dusty, and its a pain to route-Either that or I am doing something wrong.  I smoked I don't know how many bits on it.

[DNA Dan]

I think because of it's density you can't take that much material off at one time. I don't know how much you were trying to route at once, but I could easily see 1/4" or more being too much bite at a time for MDF. I am using particle board and don't see burning until I bite of 1/2" at a time. You can tell when the router is "working" too hard. It pays to buy Freud bits or something similar. Also are you routing in the right direction?

For outside edges, you route counter clockwise around the piece. For inside edges you route clockwise direction.

[rmusick]

Yea that is exactly my problem I had to route like  1/8th of an inch at a time.  I am scared that when I do the t-molding what kind of problem I will have 

[DNA Dan]

The lateral depth of the T-molding is fixed by the length of the blade from the bearing shank. The depth adjustment of the router is only going to affect where it lands on the edge. So what you should try when you start routing is just don't push the bearing up against the edge on the first pass. You need to be careful that you hold the router FLAT on the surface or you will alter the channel shape. Once you make a first pass and cut in to it ~ halfway depth, you can then come back and push the bearing smack against the edge completely and complete the cut.

I am going to try this when I get to that point. I don't know about taking the full lateral depth in one pass on particle board. I think the corners will chew out on you. You could always climb cut those corners, but that bit doesn't cut well in that direction.