Insomnia. The real thing.

[Dervacumen]

Anyone else afflicted with this condition?  It really sucks.  Get to sleep fine, wake up for any reason and the mind gets going and can't sleep.

[SNAAKE]

[Singapura]

[CheffoJeffo]

The booze makes it worse, as does late-night television or reading from a backlit screen.

I've been battling serious (2 hours of sleep per night) middle of the night and terminal insomnia for the past few years and it can take a heavy toll upon your life.

Have a hundred pieces of advice, but if you have been having problems for more than a month, see your doctor.

[MaineEvent]

"Chew some Valerian root and get more exercise"
or.....
start a Fight Club

[SNAAKE]

how does anyone not fall as sleep after working AND a few beers??

I wish I was awesome like that. I feel like sleeping right after I wake up

[spoot]

how does anyone not fall as sleep after working AND a few beers??

Talent?  I have sleeping issues too......generally I can't fall asleep and stare at clock most of the night.  But even if I fall asleep quickly I typically wake up every hour or so for awhile and go back to sleep.   

[ark_ader]

I got a real good book that will put you to sleep in 3 minutes flat.

Math will usually do it for me, especially differentials, but this volume does wonders, heck I need to read this book but......

Here's the ISBN: 978-0-470-05342-3

Zonks you out real quick. 

[gryhnd]

Been battling it for many years: both the falling asleep and staying asleep part. It's the one thing I inherited that my mother can't blame my father for.

As a non-addictive helper,  I'll take benedryl (generic brand...cheap). How much depends on how it affects you normally, your body mass, etc.  For me, 3 tabs. Sometimes 4.

For a while I was taking it every night, but for the past year+ only when I've had a couple of bad sleepless nights in a row. It usually doesn't fog me out in the morning. If it does because I took it too late, coffee usually clears the cobwebs.

Not a solution by any stretch though.

[pinballwizard79]

I understand your problem.

If its the real deal you will need to fight with chemicals.

Over the counter sleep aids are dirty, the next day will be a fog.

Take like 30mg of meletonin, drink a few beers (too many & it become a stimulant however), listen to Carl Sagan & find some douja.

Otherwise get ready to trip on FDA approved liver toxic petro based profit pills like ambien's

Either route will work

[RayB]

how does anyone not fall as sleep after working AND a few beers??

Alcohol helps you fall asleep, but then you wake up an hour or two later rather wide awake.

[jennifer]

        I"ll stay up working on things for a day [or two], thinking the whole time I"ll sleep when I"m dead.

[shateredsoul]

Out of curiosity.. what have you already tried? Also, when did it start? Like, was it something that just suddenly started or have you had this issue on and off for a while?

[Blanka]

From the sleep expert (a friend works in a insomnia-clinic):
- Always get up at the same time (Sundays a maximum delay of 1 hour is allowed), preferably between sunrise and 9 am.
- Don't sleep too much. Normal sleep demand is between 6 and 9 hours.
- Pick the half-way time between getting up and going to bed: if you get up at 7.00, and go to bed at 23.00, then the half-way time is 15.00. Now the rule is: NEVER sleep between 15.00 and 23.00! It will mess up your Melatonin levels in your body.
- Naps are allowed between getting up and the half-way time, so between 7.00 and 15.00 in this example. A siesta is perfect legitimate for those Spanish, Japanese and Chinese!
- NO watching displays with high-temp whitepoint 2 hours before sleep (TV's, iPads, Computers). If you really need to, turn it down to 3000-4000K and use low brightness.
- No eating 2 hours before sleep
- Keep the room well ventilated, and a little colder than comfortable at first impression when the outside temp allows. In winter 10-15 degrees is perfect for sleeping rooms. Above 25 degrees outside temperature, first remove the filling of your bedsheets, don't aircondition to sick-making below 20 degree temperatures if it is hot. Golden rule for conditioning: look at how people did it 150 years ago in your country. Their solution is 99% chance better than any global electrified solution.
- No airconditioning, no fans while sleeping! If you need to cool, do it before going to bed, and preferably by high volume fresh air venting. At night, temperature does not increase.
- Use well venting bedcover. Goose feathers are the best. You can get covers that are impenetrable for house dust mite. You are never allergic to the feathers, just to the dust mites that like to get in there.

Good luck!

[HaRuMaN]

Good grief.  Is there anyone healthy on this forum?

I just recovered from my 3rd hernia surgery, but other than that, I'm good...   

[shmokes]

Try Melatonin supplements.  They don't help everyone, but they work absolute wonders for lots of people (including many in my family).  If they work they're much preferable to sleeping pills because there are no side effects.  You don't get knocked out.  You just fall asleep quickly after going to bed, stay asleep, and wake up with no sleeping pill hangover.

[gryhnd]

Try Melatonin supplements.  They don't help everyone, but they work absolute wonders for lots of people (including many in my family).

I should probably give those a shot again. It's been many years since I tried them. They used to give me really f'd up dreams and major sloth head in the morning.

[krick]

Give this a try for a week or two...

Stop ALL caffeine consumption.  Even very small amounts of caffeine affect your ability to get deep restful sleep, even many hours after you've consumed it.

No coffee, no tea, no soda, no chocolate, no "herbal supplements", no energy drinks, no energy bars, etc...

Do not drink even decaff coffee or tea as it still has a non-trivial amount of caffeine in it.

I would avoid all sodas.  Barq's rootbeer has caffeine, some orange sodas have caffeine, Mtn Dew is loaded with caffeine, and there's even some clear sodas with caffeine.  Soda isn't good for you anyway, so just avoid it.

Avoid eating anything with any of the following ingredients:

caffeine
theine
mateine
guaranine
guarana
cacao
kola
kola nut
yerba mate
green tea extract

Stay away from "Excedrin" and other medications that contain caffeine.

The first few days will be rough, and you may experience caffeine withdrawals that can cause headaches and/or make you cranky.

Once you've gotten completely off of caffeine, I guarantee you will fall asleep quicker and sleep much deeper.  You will wake up feeling better with a lot more energy.

Caffeine use is a vicious circle.  When you use it, you don't sleep well.  Then you need more of it the next day to stay awake, which causes you to not sleep well.  Lather, rinse, repeat.

[hypernova]

Good grief.  Is there anyone healthy on this forum?

I am.  For now.  Cancer runs in my family, so I'm a bit worried about the future, but otherwise I'm perfectly good.

For the insomniac:

[Howard_Casto]

Just don't sweat it and let it work for you! 

99% of all my contributions to this site, my software and my mame source-code submissions are due to insomnia. 

My lack of sleep is your gain!

[RandyT]

All folks are different, and the underlying causes will be as well.  It's probably important to do a bit of introspection to try to learn what it is that is causing your issue.  Job or family stress?  Overactive mind?  OCD?  If you can cross out most of those, then it may be a chemical imbalance, or some other physical issue that you need to have addressed.  But if it's "you being you", then I recommend dealing with the cause of the stress and looking for resolutions to the problems that are keeping your mind whirring.  Also, teach yourself to "shut it off".  When your mind starts racing, give it some absolutely pointless busy work.  This is where the "counting sheep" thing likely originated.  If you can't do it yourself, try some sort of mild external stimuli that your brain can turn its attention to.  White noise, the sounds of ocean waves, or anything that soothes and distracts.

These are the things which work for me.  The military taught me that sleep is optional in extreme situations, and I can get by with very little.  Unfortunately, knowing that I can, sometimes leads me to doing it when I shouldn't, and making it difficult to turn off.  But it's a lousy way to live and mental performance is heavily affected by deprivation, so look for the thing that puts you back in control of you.  For your organs' sakes, turn to prescription meds as a last result when nothing else works.

[Dervacumen]

Okay,
I appreciate a lot of these ideas.  Most of them are part of my routine now, a couple are not.  This problem started in about the early 90's maybe '92.  Yeah, it's been a while.  I don't usually have a hard time falling asleep.  It's getting back to sleep after I awaken at night.  The mind just races.  I will say I get a LOT of thinking done between 1:30am and 5:00am when I would normally wake up and get out of bed.

I don't eat right before I go to bed.
I've tried the benedryl route since the active ingredient is the same as OTC sleeping pills and I have allergies anyway.
I've tried melatonin, alcohol (which I know can be problematic as it metabolizes while I'm sleeping), and another, greener plant that is legal here in CA for these types of things.
I don't do anything in bed except sleep and, uh...never mind.
I have been on a regular sleep schedule for the past 6 years or more, even on the weekends.
If I'm having trouble falling back asleep I get up out of bed and find a boring diversion, sometimes reading these forums. (HA)  Sometimes it works in an hour, sometimes I'm just awake the rest of the night.
I exercise 3-4 times a week to get out some energy.
I drink 1 cup of weak coffee in the morning usually 4 times a week and no more caffeine during the day.
If I don't wake up, I sleep great.  When my daughter comes in and wakes me up at night, I'm hosed.
I don't take naps any more, cut those out long ago too to help with this.
I count sheep with numbers on them, and imagine drawing numbers backwards in my head, from 99 on down.  I also recite the alphabet backwards while noting the it's number in the sequence - like Z26, Y25, etc...  I'm pretty good at it now.
I tried writing down all the things I have to do the next day to get them off my mind.
I used to meditate but as rewarding as that was it didn't help with this problem.


I'm coming to the conclusion it's just part of the natural progression to full on restless leg syndrome, something I experience on and off.  It's a neurological hereditary thing where the brain doesn't turn off.
There are meds for it but it doesn't help and you have to take holidays from the meds every now and them.  My mother uses them.  They're pretty intense.

[HaRuMaN]

You can sleep when you're dead, embrace your waking hours.

Dad, is that you?   

[RandyT]

You can sleep when you're dead, embrace your waking hours.

Which is fine, so long as you don't believe that the candle which burns twice as bright, burns half as long.  The body also needs time to repair itself, and much of that comes during sleep.  

Different individuals require different amounts of sleep as well.  Dervacumen, how is the lack of sleep affecting you otherwise?  If the answer is "not much", then perhaps you just don't require as much as others.  Also, don't let the stress of knowing that you need to get back to sleep, and can't, make it become a self fulfilling prophesy.  I feel for anyone in this situation, as I know that the sense of helplessness can be excruciating.

[DillonFoulds]

What about polyphasic sleeping?

[Blanka]

You did not mention any of the physical conditions of your bedroom. Explain those...

[DillonFoulds]

What? How did you get to father-son incestuous anal sex from that? Got something on the mind?

[HaRuMaN]

pbj's our regular freakshow... 

[DillonFoulds]

Maybe next time you tell the joke, tell it the exact same way only funnier?

[jennifer]

         That was so funny...... OMG, snort,snort

[Dervacumen]

You can sleep when you're dead, embrace your waking hours.

Which is fine, so long as you don't believe that the candle which burns twice as bright, burns half as long.  The body also needs time to repair itself, and much of that comes during sleep. 

Different individuals require different amounts of sleep as well.  Dervacumen, how is the lack of sleep affecting you otherwise?  If the answer is "not much", then perhaps you just don't require as much as others.  Also, don't let the stress of knowing that you need to get back to sleep, and can't, make it become a self fulfilling prophesy.  I feel for anyone in this situation, as I know that the sense of helplessness can be excruciating.

The effect is significant, I'm sure.  When I get a good night sleep the alacrity I possess the next day is tremendously higher.  I overcame the stress of not sleeping being a self fulfilling prophecy along time ago, so now instead of worrying about not sleeping I just get up and do something else.  If I didn't have to worry about waking up the house I probably wouldn't mind it as much but the last thing I want it to wake someone else up.  That would be cruel.  And lately I've been semi comfortable laying in bed deeply resting but not sleeping for a couple hours.  It's actually refreshing in an odd way.
Last night I was awoken by my daughter at 1:30am after going to bed at about 9:15pm.  I then laid awake almost falling asleep several times until at least about 4:00am.  That's the last I remember seeing a clock anyway, something I try to avoid.  I was awoken again at 6:28 and decided to get out of bed at 6:40pm.  Now it's 8:50pm.

Yes, it's 6 1/2 hours which gets me by, but man, it's not even close to being refreshing.

[Dervacumen]

What about polyphasic sleeping?

I've thought about this a lot over the years and it could be but I don't think so because I usually wake up due to an audible event and then can't get back to sleep.
What sucks about that scenario is that most employers I've come across don't dig it so much.

[RandyT]

Last night I was awoken by my daughter at 1:30am after going to bed at about 9:15pm. 

You don't have insomnia, you have "kids"   I think I would probably have difficulty going back to sleep if I was made fully awake after 4 hours of sleep, as well.  Sounds like you are doing the right thing in resting in place, instead of getting up.  If you are up and down all night, your internal clock could be genuinely screwed up.  Perhaps forcing yourself to resist the urge to get up, and continuing the "deep rest" until you eventually sleep (no matter how long it takes), for a couple of weeks, will result in your body getting into a more reliable cycle.  It's tough to do this with the little ones interrupting, though.

[Dervacumen]

         That was so funny...... OMG, snort,snort

I read it again and again.  And then again.  And then I dissected it and R E A D it.  I don't G E T it, but that's nothing new.

[Dervacumen]

Last night I was awoken by my daughter at 1:30am after going to bed at about 9:15pm.

You don't have insomnia, you have "kids"   I think I would probably have difficulty going back to sleep if I was made fully awake after 4 hours of sleep, as well.  Sounds like you are doing the right thing in resting in place, instead of getting up.  If you are up and down all night, your internal clock could be genuinely screwed up.  Perhaps forcing yourself to resist the urge to get up, and continuing the "deep rest" until you eventually sleep (no matter how long it takes), for a couple of weeks, will result in your body getting into a more reliable cycle.  It's tough to do this with the little ones interrupting, though.



I agree continuing the deep rest is sort of working.  It is hard because of the RLS symptoms though.  Nice thing is I don't need any coffee or tea to wake me up.   Iv'e been working on this for about 2 months now and it's getting better.
If I could get my kid to not wake us up and I could get my really frickin' insanely loud meowin' cat to STFU it would help.  But again, this was going on long before I had a kid.  Longer than I've known my wife, actually.

[Vigo]

         That was so funny...... OMG, snort,snort

I read it again and again.  And then again.  And then I dissected it and R E A D it.  I don't G E T it, but that's nothing new.

I am guessing that in PBJ's circles, a lot of "Molesting Dad" jokes were told. If you never heard those jokes before, it just doesn't register as a joke.

[jennifer]

       It"s just getting more and more funny..... Oh man, I won"t be able to sleep tonight!

[DillonFoulds]

I guess Jennifer must have some affiliation/affliction with PBJ?
(IR)Regardless() PBJ's joke meant anal sex with a woman can't knock her up, for PBJ to be a daddy. The joke was there, just not funny.

Have you considered maybe earplugs, then? Alternatively to polyphasic sleep, could possibly be biphasic sleep. In short, you sleep 1hour-1:15 at about 7:30pm, then you go back to sleep at 1AM for 4 to 4 and a half hours. It may fit in better with work schedules. Unfortunately, it could mean you're risking crappy sleep schedules twice, and end up with an ever worse rest for the next day.

[Ed_McCarron]

I usually wake up due to an audible event and then can't get back to sleep.

Doc put me on Gabapentin for headaches -- I'm getting the best sleep I've had in years.  Doesn't knock you out, but once you're asleep, it helps with sleep maintenance.

[ChadTower]

You can sleep when you're dead, embrace your waking hours.

Dad, is that you?   

Sorry, kid, doesn't work that way with anal sex.

Go on... tell him you're in love with his dad...