GAS PRICES....WTH :angry:

[danny_galaga]

You're misinterpreting what you read.

No

[danny_galaga]

Oh, and those of you in the states? relax, price of gas there is still heaps less than most other places in the world. I just noticed today that 98 octane here in Brisbane, Australia is $1.65 a litre. That's $6.27 a gallon...

Am I reading this right? 98 octane!? The highest octane rating you can get here in CA is 91. I think they only sell 98 octane at racing places.

I'd like to know how we could expect an aging and already insufficient power grid to take on the added load of charging automobiles.  Places like California have had to resort to rolling blackouts for a long time now.  Places with seasonal demand for home air conditioning (like New England) are starting to have issues all summer.  What is going to happen to the grid when people start plugging cars in to charge overnight?  Cities and states don't want to spend the money to ramp up the grid because it is invisible capital expense but if they don't get on this soon all these plug in electrics are nothing more than a pipe dream.

What happens when we have a power outage?  Your internet and VOIP phone are dead as are your refrigerators and possibly heat/cooking.  You have limited time on your cell phone.  Now we're talking about being unable to drive because we can't charge the car?  Are we going to start keeping gas tanks on site specifically for backup generators to charge the cars we no longer want running on gas?

Thats a very good point. 

Australia uses RON. At the pump, you can get 91, 95 and 98. My old VW likes the extra octane (",)

[danny_galaga]

I was under the impression that electric cars only get about 100km/charge?

My car gets about 700 km/tank. If it's only costing me $7 to charge once, and it's taking 7 times the amount of charges to equal a tank of gas, that's 49$ worth of electricity. That's roughly what it costs to fill my car up with gasoline, anyways?

Are these numbers wrong?

The Tesla sports car is over 200 MILES per charge...

[ChadTower]

The Tesla sports car is over 200 MILES per charge...

...and costs over a hundred thousand dollars.

[DillonFoulds]

The Bugatti Veyron gets about 200km/tank average driving speed, but I can't afford a veyron... how is that relevant?

To get a car that can rival low to mid end consumer grade, you kind of have to compare costs of the vehicle, not just economy.

If the car battery is anything like the batteries in my xbox controllers, then I'm not putting much faith in the cycles per lifetime of the car battery, meaning it won't be long before i have to invest 10k or so into another battery.

[MonMotha]

If the car battery is anything like the batteries in my xbox controllers, then I'm not putting much faith in the cycles per lifetime of the car battery, meaning it won't be long before i have to invest 10k or so into another battery.

The XB360 controller uses Ni-MH batteries and a really cheap, crappy charger.  This is about the worst possible scenario.  They'll die quickly.

The Volt and Leaf are using Li-Ion batteries.  I don't know how good the charger is.  If it's done right, you can cycle it all you want, and it won't matter.  The only thing that will kill them is time and heat.  Articles I've read indicate that GM is limiting the charge/discharge thresholds to 90%/25% in the Volt which should easily double or triple the lifespan of the battery compared to the 100%/5% thresholds you see in consumer electronics.  The cells are also probably engineered for longevity over energy density, if they're thinking about it right.  I don't know how good the charger is, but the articles I've read make it sound fairly intelligent (it probably does columb counting and has full V/I control).  Given the conservative thresholds they've picked, I suspect they put some thought into it.

My biggest concern would be heat in a vehicle application.  We all know how hot a car can get on a sunny day, even without engine heat.  Lithium Ion batteries degrade up to twice as fast at just 100F as they do at 70F.  I'm not sure how or if this has been addressed in the Volt.  It's possible to make some tradeoffs in the design of the battery cells themselves to combat this, and this may have been done in the Volt, the Leaf, or both.

GM is guaranteeing the battery for 8 years or 100,000 miles.  That's a heck of a warranty, so I'd say they at least think they've got things sorted out.  Now, whether neo-GM can survive another 8 years without going bankrupt (again) is anyone's guess.

That said, yeah, they're still too damned expensive.  No way I'm buying a first-gen car based on a new technology from GM (with all their recent history) for $45k+.  I'll give them a few years to work the bugs out and probably bring down prices, too.

[danny_galaga]

The Tesla sports car is over 200 MILES per charge...

...and costs over a hundred thousand dollars.

 

"The standard 4-seat open tourer of 1909 cost $850 (equivalent to $20,709 today). In 1913, the price dropped to $550 (equivalent to $12,181 today), and $440 in 1915 (equivalent to $9,521 today). Sales were 69,762 in 1911; 170,211 in 1912; 202,667 in 1913; 308,162 in 1914; and 501,462 in 1915.
By the 1920s, the price had fallen to $290 (equivalent to $3,289 today) because of increasing efficiencies of assembly line technique and volume."

A useful illustration 

[boykster]

Don't forget, the Tesla is cool and fast too.....

[H4CK3R]

We have 3 cars in this house...  a Mercedes Bens smart car, imported from Germany, a Toyota Prious, and my Dodge Ram 1500 Hemi...

I get 45 MPH in the Smart car, 49 MPH in the Prious, and 15 in the Dodge..  Each serve their purpose...

I'm all for Electric cars, and Im not worried about the Electrical bill..  I generate about 55 to 65 Kilowatt hours a day with my 9.2 Solar panels I placed on my house.







I built the patio and the installed the Solar panels myself, out of pocket with the tax credits, I'm only out 6.5K...

Sure I might not look so Manly in my smart car... But I can afford to take my wife out a nice dinner when I want, and drive there with a smile on my face....

[DillonFoulds]

Have you ever had a negative balance on your electricity bill? Apparently in some places electric companies will actually pay you the difference.

[Dartful Dodger]

I just heard that Japan lost its major oil refineries and their nuclear power plants might be temporarily disabled, so for the next month or so they’ll have to import a lot of oil to replace and power their country.

Prices went up at just a threat to supply. Now there is a legitimate supply shortage.

[Vigo]

I'd be very surprised if that makes any dent into actual oil supplies. Japan doesn't make a whole lot of oil themselves anyway, only about 3% of their supply, and I'm only aware of one downed power plant. If the oil prices raised because of this, I would gather it was more speculation.

[CCM]

I'd be very surprised if that makes any dent into actual oil supplies. Japan doesn't make a whole lot of oil themselves anyway, only about 3% of their supply, and I'm only aware of one downed power plant. If the oil prices raised because of this, I would gather it was more speculation.

It doesn't matter if it makes a dent or not, it will still drive prices even higher.

[Vigo]

Yep, Exactly. No matter what though, there will be no global shortage of oil because a country that barely drills their own oil might not be able to refine their crude for a few months. 

[Dartful Dodger]

Japan just lost all their oil. Japan needs to replace what they lost, needs it for their normal consumption, and they'll need it to burn oil for electricity while their nuclear power plants are offline.

The supply won't go down because Japan won't be supplying it. The supply will go down because Japan will be buying more than anyone anticipated.

[Ed_McCarron]

I was under the impression that electric cars only get about 100km/charge?

My car gets about 700 km/tank. If it's only costing me $7 to charge once, and it's taking 7 times the amount of charges to equal a tank of gas, that's 49$ worth of electricity. That's roughly what it costs to fill my car up with gasoline, anyways?

Are these numbers wrong?

Don't forget to factor in the cost of replacing the batteries in 3-5 years, and paying to dispose of the toxic lithium or heavy metals...

(NiMH -- not so bad -- at least it's recyclable.)

[pinballwizard79]

Oil is actually undervalued, we the USA help manipulate & subsidize its price by paying off crooked dictators.

You think oil costs a lot now, wait until the "people" are liberated & asking for market value of a non renewable resource.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Get this.....The US turns $1.00 into $0.03 after just 98 years thanks to the Fed.

Fed dilutes our currency via treasury bills bought by China, Japan, India & the US itself (printing out of thin air, gold/silver standard abandoned long ago).

This causes inflation in the global reserve currency which causes food prices to sharply increase which causes revolts in the countries we pay off to keep oil prices low.

Revolts caused by our inflation cause interruptions in our oil which shrinks our economy & reduces the funds we have to pay off other markets all the while inflation is out of control.

So why not just raise the fed rate 5% like we did last time to stave off inflation, food prices, revolts & increased oil costs?

Because we cant, our national debt is too high & we already spend more than we take in. If we raise the rate 5% we as a country default....

So we just print, sell, ---smurfette--- about oil & hope to god there is a plane nearby to steal & fly to safety when ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- hits the fan.

So eff your prius, hummer & electric car. The US & UK are civilized only because we can have anything we want & live a standard of life like no one else.

Stock up on ammo, not oil

EDIT: Stock up on Wico leaf 4 ways too

[Vigo]

Japan just lost all their oil. Japan needs to replace what they lost, needs it for their normal consumption, and they'll need it to burn oil for electricity while their nuclear power plants are offline.

The supply won't go down because Japan won't be supplying it. The supply will go down because Japan will be buying more than anyone anticipated.

They just lost all their oil, hmmm....haven't read that news story. Got the news story showing the entire oil supply of Japan got misplaced in the earthquake? And how many nuclear power plants you think went down? they have over 50.

[Mikezilla]

Oil is actually undervalued, we the USA help manipulate & subsidize its price by paying off crooked dictators.

You think oil costs a lot now, wait until the "people" are liberated & asking for market value of a non renewable resource.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Get this.....The US turns $1.00 into $0.03 after just 98 years thanks to the Fed.

Fed dilutes our currency via treasury bills bought by China, Japan, India & the US itself (printing out of thin air, gold/silver standard abandoned long ago).

This causes inflation in the global reserve currency which causes food prices to sharply increase which causes revolts in the countries we pay off to keep oil prices low.

Revolts caused by our inflation cause interruptions in our oil which shrinks our economy & reduces the funds we have to pay off other markets all the while inflation is out of control.

So why not just raise the fed rate 5% like we did last time to stave off inflation, food prices, revolts & increased oil costs?

Because we cant, our national debt is too high & we already spend more than we take in. If we raise the rate 5% we as a country default....

So we just print, sell, ---smurfette--- about oil & hope to god there is a plane nearby to steal & fly to safety when ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- hits the fan.

So eff your prius, hummer & electric car. The US & UK are civilized only because we can have anything we want & live a standard of life like no one else.

Stock up on ammo, not oil

EDIT: Stock up on Wico leaf 4 ways too

I thought we got oil from places that we can bully, you know, ones that dont really have a military, like Canada, and a few south american countries.

[BurgerKingDiamond]

The world is run by greedy people. They will sell gas for as high as they can possibly get away with. I think that the government should step in, since the increase in prices is not actually related to any thing real. It's all speculation. Other industries wouldn't be able to get away with gouging their prices this way.

[ark_ader]

I don't want to derail this thread, but the problems in Japan, and how oil supply is increasing the cost per barrel, the Libyan issue has just got more interesting.

Doesn't Libya make up that 2% of oil?

I agree with the solar power comment (nice nid) I bet Nevada Power doesn't know what to do about it.  But in order to change your usage of energy, you also have to change your perspective on how you get energy.

The solar power array (check out that vitamin company across from the Henderson fire station off warm springs - past Sunset Station - the company has a huge array that powers the building) would have to be the option electric car owners would have to look at, to keep in line with costs in power. 

[pinballwizard79]

Oil is actually undervalued, we the USA help manipulate & subsidize its price by paying off crooked dictators.

You think oil costs a lot now, wait until the "people" are liberated & asking for market value of a non renewable resource.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Get this.....The US turns $1.00 into $0.03 after just 98 years thanks to the Fed.

Fed dilutes our currency via treasury bills bought by China, Japan, India & the US itself (printing out of thin air, gold/silver standard abandoned long ago).

This causes inflation in the global reserve currency which causes food prices to sharply increase which causes revolts in the countries we pay off to keep oil prices low.

Revolts caused by our inflation cause interruptions in our oil which shrinks our economy & reduces the funds we have to pay off other markets all the while inflation is out of control.

So why not just raise the fed rate 5% like we did last time to stave off inflation, food prices, revolts & increased oil costs?

Because we cant, our national debt is too high & we already spend more than we take in. If we raise the rate 5% we as a country default....

So we just print, sell, ---smurfette--- about oil & hope to god there is a plane nearby to steal & fly to safety when ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- hits the fan.

So eff your prius, hummer & electric car. The US & UK are civilized only because we can have anything we want & live a standard of life like no one else.

Stock up on ammo, not oil

EDIT: Stock up on Wico leaf 4 ways too

I thought we got oil from places that we can bully, you know, ones that dont really have a military, like Canada, and a few south american countries.

We buy a culture first, if they dont sell out then we bully it.

Dont agree, tell that to Saddam who decided to trade oil in the Euro & rejected the money we sent Gaddafi. Who is dead, who is alive?

Gaddafi didnt share his winnings & now his people want him out. Obama was all quiet about Egypt until it was obvious it was over & he did the same to Gaddafi. Ever notice how the US doesnt state a stance until once side shines brighter?

ark_ader its not just the % of oil produced, its the type (how efficiently its processed) Libya has better oil (light sweet crude) than the Saudi's

I think of it this way, its like the stock market. Some of that movement is calculated/intentional & some movement is organic reactions.

[ChadTower]

The Tesla sports car is over 200 MILES per charge...

...and costs over a hundred thousand dollars.

 

"The standard 4-seat open tourer of 1909 cost $850 (equivalent to $20,709 today). In 1913, the price dropped to $550 (equivalent to $12,181 today), and $440 in 1915 (equivalent to $9,521 today). Sales were 69,762 in 1911; 170,211 in 1912; 202,667 in 1913; 308,162 in 1914; and 501,462 in 1915.
By the 1920s, the price had fallen to $290 (equivalent to $3,289 today) because of increasing efficiencies of assembly line technique and volume."

A useful illustration 

Next time I stop by 1920 I'll be sure to pick one up.  Until then what we have are $120,000 Tesla Roadsters.

[danny_galaga]

The Tesla sports car is over 200 MILES per charge...

...and costs over a hundred thousand dollars.

 

"The standard 4-seat open tourer of 1909 cost $850 (equivalent to $20,709 today). In 1913, the price dropped to $550 (equivalent to $12,181 today), and $440 in 1915 (equivalent to $9,521 today). Sales were 69,762 in 1911; 170,211 in 1912; 202,667 in 1913; 308,162 in 1914; and 501,462 in 1915.
By the 1920s, the price had fallen to $290 (equivalent to $3,289 today) because of increasing efficiencies of assembly line technique and volume."

A useful illustration 

Next time I stop by 1920 I'll be sure to pick one up.  Until then what we have are $120,000 Tesla Roadsters.

You're not one for extrapolation, are you?

[danny_galaga]

Regards oil prices, the Japan crisis has actually eased the price of oil. Why? Less anticipated consumption. Industry will be down, therefore in a general sense, less oil will be used. Nuclear power plants offline will be somewhat negated by less customers (damaged, destroyed buildings) and many power stations in Japan (and a lot of the world) are coal fired. Maybe the price of coal will go up slightly.

So breath easy, your petrol prices will stabilise a little and all it took was the destruction of the east coast of Japan...

[Gamingfanz]

We were driving back from Disneyland to LV and the news reported one gas station with gas fr $4.35 and then another with gas for just 3.65 right across the street.  Wth is up with that?