Special Version of AAE just for Asteroids

[biobern]

Hi everybody,
I made a special version of AAE just for Asteroids with working hiscore save.
Please get it here:
http://bodenstandig.de/asteroids

I still hope the original AAE author will release a new version soon.
have fun....


Readme:
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AsteroidsAAE
V0.1 March 2011
 
AsteroidsAAE is mainly AAE (Another Arcade Emulator) with Update1 and
stipped down for just emulating Asteroids. AAE Update2 is not included
cause Asteroids Hiscore Save is broken here (although it works in
Asteroids Deluxe and many other games). Also check:
http://pages.suddenlink.net/aae
 
To play, copy the roms ("asteroid.zip", also used in AAE and MAME) into
the roms folder. Then open "asteroids.bat". You probably want to correct
the video settings. Press TAB to enter the menu. For joystick support,
JoyToKey is a good choice. Download it here:
http://joytokey.webs.com
 
What I did other than stipping AAE down was the following:
- Even with only Update1 installed, Hiscore Save only worked until
somebody accidently pressed Reset (F3) or test mode (F2). I completely
deactivated both of these buttons. They are useless anyway IMHO.
- I integrated a different Sound Sample Set with 8 bits instead of 16
bits. It produced less crackling on both of my PCs and also sounds
more realistic IMHO.
- I made the shoots a bit brighter and sharper.
- I made an Asteroids icon to stay on your desktop. :-)
 
Known issues:
- The screen goes black after 25 minutes. So you only have 25 minutes to
break the highscore. I don't have a solution for this. If you know
something about it, please email me.
 
I know this is a dirty hack. But I'm not a programmer and this is the best
I can do. At the moment it's the best way to emulate Asteroids on a PC
IMHO.
- Standard AAE seems to be a dead project although it has lots of fans
including me. The sourcecode was published in 2010 but nobody does
something with it as far as i know .
http://mirrors.arcadecontrols.com/aae/
- AsteroidsGL from 2005 was nice back then, but is not updated anymore.
- The MAME team seems to be not willing to update their very outdated
vector rendering code. And, strange enough, there seem to be no MAME hacks
with a better vector rendering flying around in the net. If you know something
about it, please tell me!
 
AsteroidsAAE is mainly tested on:
- Penitum 4/WinXP-SP3/Geforce 6600 AGP/Extrabright hand tuned IBM CRT-
Monitor 13" from 1989, 640x480
- Core2Quad/Win7/Geforce 250 PEG/Dell 27" IPS-LCD 1920x1200
 
Have fun...
Bern von Bodenstandig
 
 

[NIVO]

thx for the efforts in doing this, ill be sure and give it a test run 

[biobern]

thx for the efforts in doing this, ill be sure and give it a test run 

Please everybody tell me what you think and what could be done to emulate Asteroids on a PC even better.
On my personal wishlist: In the real Asteroids/Asteroids Deluxe, the shoots look as if they are vibrating or blinking.
Maybe this could be simulated with a little animation (Animated GIF or Animated PNG?). Is somebody here who could change the sources? I'd paint the Animated PNG then.......

Please check the videos...
Bern

[Gray_Area]

In the real Asteroids/Asteroids Deluxe, the shoots look as if they are vibrating or blinking.

I think this is a pulsing that happens from the excitation of the phosphors of the tube. I'm sure an algorithm could be created to do this, and aae may already have (had) this in mind.

[biobern]

Hi again,
I refuse to give up! I want to have a better Asteroids emulated at home!

As I already said, screen goes black after 25 mintues after AAE Asteroids has been started.
Interesting: After another 25 minutes, screen works again for 25 minutes, then it goes black again and so on....
This happens on both of my PCs:
- Penitum 4/WinXP-SP3/Geforce 6600 AGP/Extrabright hand tuned IBM CRT-
Monitor 14" from 1989, 640x480
- Core2Quad/Win7/Geforce 250 PEG/Dell 27" IPS-LCD 1920x1200

This does NOT happen in other AAE games.
Could somebody PLEASE tell me how can such a thing happen? Is there any kind of workaround for my cabinet?

Thanks in advance
Bern

[taylormadelv]

Those videos look nice. I like the bullet glow in AD, maybe just a bit exaggerated but still nice. The Asteroid explosions are the one thing that bothered me about the original AAE versions, the explosions were too bright, too exaggerated. These explosions could be taken down just a tad and the bullet glow down just a tad and that will be as close as a VGA will ever get to real real B&W vector monitor. Remember, the B&W vector monitors are BRIGHTER than color vector monitors, in some cases MUCH brighter. When I finally get my ZVG up and running, I will be able to demonstate how the real B&W vector monitor in my real Asteroids Deluxe is much brighter than ZVG drawing vectors on a WG6100. This is partially why Asteroids Deluxe is almost impossible to emulate 100% perfectly. These newer versions look real nice. Maybe you could use this on Gravitar, Space Duel and Space Fury as well?Great work!

[biobern]

Uhmmm...
Did you really think these videoas are taken from AsteroidsAAE?
Sorry to disapoint you but these are videos from the originals! So the brigtness of the shoots can hardly be exaggerated. :-)
BTW: We surely could simulate the brightness of the shoots even on a LCD monitor cause we all like the brightness of the shoots in the youtube videos of the originals we just watch on an LCD-monitor, right? :-)

I only linked to these videos to illustrate the blinking shots of the originals. This is not yet simulated in AAE or AsteroidsAAE!

Hint: You can make the points of the explosion smaller (and more realistic) by modifiing "explo_point_size" in aae.ini.

Have fun...
Bern

Those videos look nice. I like the bullet glow in AD, maybe just a bit exaggerated but still nice. The Asteroid explosions are the one thing that bothered me about the original AAE versions, the explosions were too bright, too exaggerated. These explosions could be taken down just a tad and the bullet glow down just a tad and that will be as close as a VGA will ever get to real real B&W vector monitor. Remember, the B&W vector monitors are BRIGHTER than color vector monitors, in some cases MUCH brighter. When I finally get my ZVG up and running, I will be able to demonstate how the real B&W vector monitor in my real Asteroids Deluxe is much brighter than ZVG drawing vectors on a WG6100. This is partially why Asteroids Deluxe is almost impossible to emulate 100% perfectly. These newer versions look real nice. Maybe you could use this on Gravitar, Space Duel and Space Fury as well?Great work!

[taylormadelv]

No offense but I just looked at my AD and the bullets do not glow like that video for some reason. The vector monitor in my AD is like new. It may be a video recording/playback thing. The bullets on my real AD are very bright but they don't have a halo-like glow. Just calling it as I see it....good luck!

[biobern]

No offense but I just looked at my AD and the bullets do not glow like that video for some reason. The vector monitor in my AD is like new. It may be a video recording/playback thing. The bullets on my real AD are very bright but they don't have a halo-like glow. Just calling it as I see it....good luck!

Have you turned up your monitor to full brightness? I have no access to a real Asteroids every day (which is a pity), last time I played the original was 2 years ago. It can be veeery bright as far as I remember. But the video camera surely boosts the corona effect around the bullets....

Bern

[SavannahLion]

I haven't seen the videos yet but based on the discussion there might be a misunderstaning here.

It is tricky to accurately film something that produces light, especially if it has a frequency, like a CRT. That is why you have bars on televisions on some poorly done films. Most video images you see are usually done in post, or employ some hardware to synch frequencies, or otherwise.

Colors are tough to get right too sometimes. Ask anyone who tried to photograph the reproduction From sticks or the light up buttons. It's not easy.

I'm just guessing but the pulsing or the halo is more than likely from the video camera and not actually readily apparent on the actual cab. In a nutshell, if you want to see what the original cab looked like, dont depend on a video.

[Howard_Casto]

What he said.... 

Also this is why the mame team is reluctant/uninterested in making a "more accurate" vector rendering engine.  The only way to figure out how the game looked is to have the working game with the original monitor sitting right beside you while you write the code.  This just isn't practical for development. 

I'm not saying the AAE is inaccurate either, I just mean that which one looks better is very subjective unless you have both running alongside the original machine to verify.

[Gray_Area]

Monochrome vector monitors *do* have that glow and pulse. Like liquid mercury emitting light. Go find an oscilliscope. Or a Vectrex. I have one, and it looks exactly like described.

Also, I have seen an Asteroids with a fresh monitor in the last few years. Even a few months ago, though obviously dimmer, it had the same basic look. However, I have the feeling that kind of effect might be a ways off.

Color vectors also have a glow/halo, albeit lower intensity and translucent. I saw an original Tempest a few years ago, and was impressed with how it glowed (not to mention the blue screens were more violet). AAE is very close to this.

I don't know as the color vecs pulse like the monochrome do.

[Howard_Casto]

I never said they didn't.    I've played a few games of asteroids back in the day... ;-)

But like I said, which one is more accurate is subjective.

The halo effect depends upon how the monitor is adjusted.  Different places adjusted it differently and thus people will argue over which look is the most "correct". 

[biobern]

I never said they didn't.    I've played a few games of asteroids back in the day... ;-)

The halo effect depends upon how the monitor is adjusted.  Different places adjusted it differently and thus people will argue over which look is the most "correct". 

That's all true, but one thing is fore sure: The MAME vector rendering is the most incorrect renderung you can imagine. And hard to play cause of the nearly invisible ufo bullets.
AAE does the right thing: It lets you control phosphor trail, vector glow, monitor gain and "draw 0-lines". Just the pulsing (of the bullets) is missing.....

Bern
 

[Xiaou2]

I believe AAE just draws all things onscreen at once, and any changes get updated all at once.

 This is the real problem with AAE, because thats not how the real games worked.

 Much like drawing your finger in a tub of water, making the letter "S"... you will produce ripples.  The ripples will change as time goes by, from larger to shorter waves.  But if you were to be able to draw your entire "S" in one moment of time, such as using a stamp... the ripple effect would be completely different than the S that was drawn little by little.

 A raster / typical monitor draws like how we read a book.  From the left to the right, from the top of the screen, all the way down to the bottom.

 A vector monitor can start drawing anywhere on the screen, and draw to anywhere. All the graphics on a vector monitor are actually One never-ending line.  You can see this if you turn up the voltage on a vector monitor display.  The game turns down the voltage when it wants parts of the line to be invisible.  However, the path is still actually 'drawn'.

 Anything drawn on a vector will start out bright, and then start to fade. This fade time has to be calculated per pixel.  Not all at once.  Each pixel drawn will have to be reduced in intensity based on the time it was put onscreen.

 Im guessing that the bullets were updated much more frequently than the other objects, which may have made them a lot brighter as a result.  As anytime the beam is let in one place too long... its going to get blindingly bright.

 The flicker effect is more than likely a result of the vector beam going all over the place from one stop to the next... rather than updating the entire display all at once.

 Im not sure if its possible to track and update 20,000 pixels worth of fade in realtime + emulation overhead.  However, it would be amazing to see the attempt.
Those demo team guys who make the visual plugins for winamp and other such players might have some ideas...


 Another flaw in AAE, is when two vectors come in contact with each other.  Their glows combine, and become too bright.  In realty, this doesnt happen.  Theres a set level of maximum glow, and it really does not amplify when 2 vectors intersect.
Thats the problem with overlay effects.. rather than actual programmed effects.


 On a side note, capturing a vector monitor isnt easy with a typical camera.  It has to be very high def, and have excellent light/dark spectrum to deal with the intensities without freaking out. Even then, it might not be completely accurate. A camera like this is well out of my price range, and probably most others too.

[Xiaou2]

Furthermore, a game like asteroids deluxe, which has a color overlay...
Instead of just making the vector bullets a lighter blue, they should turn bright white with blue around it.

 Reason?

 When the vector beam is at its brightest, its so intense that it over powers the overlay, and you simply see pure white light burning through.

Also,
 The blue glow on things like the asteroids is also way off.  Far too much glow spread.
I own the machine, so I know firsthand.


 Example of vector drawing one line (partially) via a problem board

[Howard_Casto]

Thanks for putting into words what I was trying to explain.   

I like AAE, and I think it's a marked improvement over mame, BUT I have no illusions that it is more accurate than mame visually.  From looking at the srouce AAE uses primarily raster effects to simulate glow on vector drawings.  By this very definition, it is impossible for it to be accurate. 


I actually think that the adaptive physics you are talking about are possible in this day and age.  The problem is it would take a very talented programmer to know how to set it up and even then they have to know EXACTLY how phosper lines on a vector monitor effected glow, ghosting, and flicker. 

[Xiaou2]

Thanks for putting into words what I was trying to explain.    Grin

 No prob.  Ive probably posted this argument a few times, so Ive got a little experience  heh.

I actually think that the adaptive physics you are talking about are possible in this day and age.  The problem is it would take a very talented programmer to know how to set it up and even then they have to know EXACTLY how phosper lines on a vector monitor effected glow, ghosting, and flicker. 

 Well, as I said, I think most of challenge is merely to draw each pixel at the correct time, and reduce its intensity every nth unit of time.  This will surely be difficult when you are trying to translate it to refresh rates of a non vector monitor.

 I think if that can be done... any further effects can be dialed in and tweaked in as needed.

Inspired Idea:

 I-Robot style drawing mode:

 I wonder if each pixel could act as a separate sprite. And each sprite, would be drawn as a light blue dot (in asteroids deluxe), with a softer circular glow around it.  Each sprite would be auto-programmed to dim, and when zeroed out, would be recycled or deleted.

 The thing you would have to do would be to make sure each sprite was at the correct height, as well as not interfering with each others brightness.

 If the beam is left in place, I guess you would have to intervene with the sprites brightness and start to crank it back upwards, and change it from blue to white if it gets that high in voltage/brightness.

[Xiaou2]

interesting:

http://vectorvga.com/index.htm

Features

VectorVGA Tempest converts the analog vector video signal to a standard SVGA raster video signal. This allows regular SVGA monitors to work with vector arcade games. VectorVGA Tempest has a variety of features and options that allow you to enjoy the best possible quality on a variety of SVGA displays.

High Resolution Rendering
The VectorVGA Tempest converter digitizes the analog vector signal with a dual 12-bit analog to digital convertor (ADC). It plots 40 million samples per second (wow)  to faithfully render the vectors to look like the original monitor. The custom rendering and frame buffering are handled entirely in hardware in a high-speed FPGA.

24-Bit VGA Output
VectorVGA Tempest outputs SVGA video using a 24-bit video DAC to achieve maximum picture quality. While the compatible arcade games all use 7-color graphics (3-bit), the VectorVGA Tempest converter renders these vector graphics to a high-resolution, anti-aliased, full-color output. The additional color depth bits are used to provide realistic anti-aliasing and properly render areas where several color vectors overlap.

[VanillaGorilla]

Xaiou2, what is that song playing in the background on your video?

[Xiaou2]

Sorry, its not my video... just one I found.

[taylormadelv]

The Vector VGA is a great device for saving an almost complete vector game that only needs a monitor. I have never seen one working in person and I know they are not real cheap. This is a great P&P type solution for someone without access to a real vector monitor but knows 100% that the game works.
Thing that bothers me about the Vector VGA is that there appears to be no adjustablity in terms of vector BRIGHTNESS or LINE WIDTH. They even say to replace the original greylight14 glass with a lighter tinted glass, because the vectors are not "as bright" (whatever that means!). So I personally feel that running macmame os9 is a better solution and I can tweak the vector width and brightness to make the game look much closer to a "real" vector game.
Asteroids Deluxe is probably the most complicated emulation to get looking really accurate that I have attempted to take on, that's why I went waaaay out of my way to completely restore my real AD. And yes, the brightness is as far up as the monitor will go without showing the white dot at center screen.

[Xiaou2]

Howard... how hard would it be to possibly use mamehooker,
to track the bullets of the players ship, and then overlap a sprite of a much more realistic bullet down on top of it?

 Ouf of all the vector problems there are... its the tiny bullets that are the most unbearable to deal with.

[biobern]

Howard... how hard would it be to possibly use mamehooker,
to track the bullets of the players ship, and then overlap a sprite of a much more realistic bullet down on top of it?

 Ouf of all the vector problems there are... its the tiny bullets that are the most unbearable to deal with.

Very interesting idea. Is this really possible with the current version of mamehooker?

Bern

[Howard_Casto]

In mame or AAE?

In either case it would be fairly difficult as, despite the name, mamehooker doesn't "hook" anything direct-x wise, rather it reads the outputs broadcasted to all windows by mame.  It would be SLIGHTLY easier to do in mame because at least I get the rom info and info on when the emulator stops/starts.

It is possible, but I think it would be far easier to modify the source code of the emulators rather than doing this.