ArcadeVGA, MameWAH, 98.. res.. what gives?

[JoeB]

OK.. I'm in the process of putting the final touches on my MAME machine.. and I'm just playing around with the settings in MAMEWAH..

I've noticed that on my WG 7000 series monitor, with the ArcadeVGA, 640x288 looks much more plesant (since it's non-interlaced) than 640x480 (interlaced) but I did notice a problem with this:

1) At this resolution, when picture is stretched to full screen size, horizontal games all have border (neo geo about 1-2 inches around, rest like MK3 or NBA Jam, have 1/2" around)

2) Vertical refresh sweet spot can't be found! Nothing rolls.. but when there's a lot of action in a neo geo game, the screen rolls once.. when I move the vertical hold pot in the correct direction to stop this (a fraction of a mm.. a tap more than anything else).. MAMEWAH and Win98 roll..

3) Vertical games are full screen (with the obvious black bars on the side)

So.. my question(s) are:

A) Why are 640x288 and 640x480 the only resolutions supported in Windows? How do I set Windows to 640x400 or 512x288, or any other arcade resolution??

B) Any one have the same problem(s) I'm having and care to comment?

C) Do most people here stick with 640x480 or go with 640x288 with their Arcade Monitor + ArcadeVGA..

Thanx in advance.

[BombProofPlane]

i do 640 480 on windows and i only get rolls in dos but not in any games in mame or in windows

[JoeB]

Interessting..

I was thinking about the cause for the size mismatched.. and it dawned on me.. the resolution!  640x288 is much bigger than most games!! (don't bother comparing the horizontal resolution, it's the vertical resolution that counts!)

So, if 288 lines is full screen, than 240 lines (what most horizontal games seem to be) is not! And why vertical games look bigger than the screen (since they're more than 288 lines vertical).

Further more, if you have a vertical refresh set perfectly for 288, it might roll at 240!

Yet, if you use 640x480.. the monitor can't really do 480.. it fakes it with interlace.. so the true resolution there is 640x240 (240 x 2 passes to make 480!).  Hence we're back to the magic number of 240.. and in this case, the menu might look bad interlaced, but at least everything will play better (except for vertical games, and any game that is >240 lines.. while <240 lines will just show black borders)

I'll experiment with this tomorrow.. but it all makes sense on paper.

[Minwah]

Interessting..

I was thinking about the cause for the size mismatched.. and it dawned on me.. the resolution!  640x288 is much bigger than most games!! (don't bother comparing the horizontal resolution, it's the vertical resolution that counts!)

So, if 288 lines is full screen, than 240 lines (what most horizontal games seem to be) is not! And why vertical games look bigger than the screen (since they're more than 288 lines vertical).

Further more, if you have a vertical refresh set perfectly for 288, it might roll at 240!

Yet, if you use 640x480.. the monitor can't really do 480.. it fakes it with interlace.. so the true resolution there is 640x240 (240 x 2 passes to make 480!).  Hence we're back to the magic number of 240.. and in this case, the menu might look bad interlaced, but at least everything will play better (except for vertical games, and any game that is >240 lines.. while <240 lines will just show black borders)

I'll experiment with this tomorrow.. but it all makes sense on paper.

You're right, because of the vertical res of (vertical) games, which is often 288 lines, it is difficult (impossible?) to get full screen for all games afaik.  The exception would be if your monitor can save size/positions for each res (like a PC monitor, WG D9200).

I personally play horizontal games more, and have set my monitor up for that.  I either have to suffer loosing the top/bottom of old vertical games, or run these games at say 640x480 stretched

FWIW I run Windows at 640x480, and MAMEWAH at 368x240.  This res in MAMEWAH looks great

In theory at least, I think you should be able to find a sweet spot for your v-hold...I read a similar topic not long ago in the monitor forum (I think someone suggested cleaning the v-hold pot if it is an old screen)...

[GamingGreg]

I have a really old WG K4600 monitor (w/ ArcadeVGA), and I've run into much the same problem.   I've setup Windows and MAMEWah to run at 640x288.   At this resolution the games I've tested seem to work okay (sometimes with black bars top and bottom).  However if I try to run a standard PC game that can only run as low as 640x480, then I have to play with that Vertical Hold control again.   There seems to be no sweet spot for it.  

I'll try cleaning the V-Hold pot but I'm not real confident that this will help.

[JoeB]

GG:

Set your video to 640x480 in windows...  you see, the monitor can't really do 480 lines vertical.. it really does 240 lines, but twice as many... hence interlaced.. so you think it's 480, but it's really alternative 240..

If you use 288 lines vertical (640x480) then you set the video size to 288 lines, but most games are 240 lines or smaller.. the end result is 288-240 = 44 wasted lines / 2 = 22 lines on top and bottom! hence the black bars you see.. (not to count that you'll never get the vertical vsync right).

Best bet.. there was an email post on this board a while back about using smoothMAME.  Follow those instructions, set windows to 640x480 (including MAMEWAH) and you'll be golden.. everything will look great.. except for windows that will flicker a bit..

The next obvious step is what minwah hinted at, and I've followed.. learn to use the layout designer for MAMEWAH and convert one of the layouts to 368x240! The end result is a front end that runs at the same resolution as most games, and everything would look golden.. (at this point, the only thing that would be 640x480 is windows during bootup, and vertical games...)

Good luck!

[Minwah]

I've adjusted my screen size for 640x480 too...the only drawback is those vertical games with 288 lines.  Although some of these games are great, my classics are generally mid 80's-90's horizontal games, so I have decided to run the old vertical games at 640x288 -hwstretch -effect sharp.  A bit of a shame not to use the native res, but it's nice not having top/bottom borders for the horizontal games.  Also for whatever reason, many vertical games (Pacman, Galaga etc.) seem to run at a crap framerate for me at native res, it is much improved at 640x480 stretched.

I am the only person I know of so far that runs MAMEWAH at 368x240, but it is really good, much nicer than 640x288 when used with a nice small font...I will hopefully include a preset layout in this res next release  .

Enough of my rambling  

[JoeB]

Well Minwah..

got news for you then.. I'm the 2nd person to run my mame arcade than at 386x240!

I think we should really push this resolution by introducting a layout file.. People with arcade monitors would just flip at how smooth and arcade like it looks over 640x??? and a lot more compatible.

I used the layout editor to create mine (modified one of the standard ones) but I will be working on a custom one (based on modifying the others).

Everything works perfectly at this resolution.. except the "about MameWAH" screen.. it looks like it's frozen at 640x480.. so it looks HUGE. bug?

[GamingGreg]

Thanks guys.  I'll give some of those suggestions a try.

[Minwah]

Well Minwah..

got news for you then.. I'm the 2nd person to run my mame arcade than at 386x240!

I think we should really push this resolution by introducting a layout file.. People with arcade monitors would just flip at how smooth and arcade like it looks over 640x??? and a lot more compatible.

I used the layout editor to create mine (modified one of the standard ones) but I will be working on a custom one (based on modifying the others).

Everything works perfectly at this resolution.. except the "about MameWAH" screen.. it looks like it's frozen at 640x480.. so it looks HUGE. bug?

Nice one, as a matter of interest, what font do you use at 368x240?

I will be including a 'Classic' layout in this mode next release for arcade monitor folk.  It's nice not to have stretched fonts etc that 640x288 presents.

I currently run a modified version of Cave's R-Type layout at this res - pretty cool IMO  

The About box does (& should) look big.  This form is never modified in the way that the other forms are, so at these low resolutions it looks massive.  As long as it fits on the screen this is fine with me  

[JoeB]

OK..

for now I use Ariel 8pt normal.  It looks exactly like your 640x480 layout, except it was made to fit.

I got a question for you about the app, what program is it developed in? Visual Basic??

[Minwah]

OK..

for now I use Ariel 8pt normal.  It looks exactly like your 640x480 layout, except it was made to fit.

I got a question for you about the app, what program is it developed in? Visual Basic??

Yep, Visual Basic 6.0 .

I'm using 7pt 'Small Fonts' for my low res layout - pretty old sk00l  

[1Spoon]

MinWah: Do you want to share your Layout with us?
It sounds really perfect!

[Minwah]

MinWah: Do you want to share your Layout with us?
It sounds really perfect!

Here ya go

All credit to Cave, I just changed the res, size/positions and font.  Cheers Cave, I really like it

Rename to .zip and extract accordingly...

[1Spoon]

Here ya go

All credit to Cave, I just changed the res, size/positions and font.  Cheers Cave, I really like it

Minwah  - Thanks man!  
..and Cave - Nice artwork!

*off to install in cab...*

[dreamfreak]

are I

[Minwah]

are I

[dreamfreak]

thx minwah
I

[JoeB]

That's strange..

Under Windows XP and the ArcadeVGA, the system switched to this resolution.

Did you install the latest DirectX?

[Minwah]

thx minwah
I

[dreamfreak]

hi,
I

[Minwah]

hi,
I

[dreamfreak]

hi,
sounds good
can you send me a pm with the new one, please

 

[dreamfreak]

hi minwah,
now it

[Minwah]

hi minwah,
now it