Author Topic: Netflix and "Rental" Disks (Read 10537 times)

HaRuMaN · « **on:** January 31, 2011, 01:30:55 pm »

Just rented Despicable Me on Blu-Ray from Netflix... pop it in, try to watch the shorts before watching the main film. I get some pop-up message saying that only the main film is available since this is a rental, and if I want to watch any of the extras, I have to go buy it...

newmanfamilyvlogs · « **Reply #1 on:** January 31, 2011, 01:38:52 pm »

I don't know whether to laugh or be outraged.

ChadTower · « **Reply #2 on:** January 31, 2011, 01:46:38 pm »

So HarumaN rented a movie and took it in the shorts...?

HaRuMaN · « **Reply #3 on:** January 31, 2011, 01:49:36 pm »

Quote from: ChadTower on January 31, 2011, 01:46:38 pm

So HarumaN rented a movie and took it in the shorts...?

Short films... gah

Also, just rented Inception (again, on Blu-Ray). The disc had the movie, and audio menu, and that's it. No chapter selection, no bookmark feature, no special features of any kind...

knave · « **Reply #4 on:** January 31, 2011, 01:53:48 pm »

I picked up a few previously views movies at Blockbuster that were the new "Rental" stamped version. Just the film. I'm ok with it as I only paid about $4 each.
I usualy only have time to watch extras on 1 out of four DVD's anyway...though I do like the outtakes. I will probably try to avoid them in the future.

boykster · « **Reply #5 on:** January 31, 2011, 02:12:46 pm »

There has always been contention between the movie industry and the rental business - remember the VHS days when there were retail versions and rental versions of movies? The rental versions were list price of ~$80-100 even when the retail versions had dropped in price to $15-20 for new releases. The price structure was meant to ensure high revenue to the studio for all rental titles. Any rental shop caught renting retail copies was subject to a massive fine and generally shut down (it happened in my home town).

The DVD market sent things sideways - there wasn't a negotiated higher price for DVDs for the rental market, and the studios were scrambling to find ways to secure revenue. Now video shops could afford to buy dozens of copies of new releases (instead of just a handful) and make them widely available on DVD release date. Why buy for $20 when you can rent for $4? The rental stores would just then sell them used for $8-10 and recoup 1/2 of their investment for the movie on top of the rental revenue. Studios started offering 'rental versions' of DVDs at REDUCED cost to rental companies to reduce the value of the rental (fewer special features if any) as well as make it more difficult to offload copies at reduced cost.

I remember during the vhs->DVD transition seeing commercials for movies coming out to video - they would almost always say "Rent it on VHS or buy it on DVD Tuesday!" - emphasizing that it was OK to rent a VHS, but you should buy it on DVD....

Now with Netflix and other direct rental outfits, things have changed again. Throw BluRay into the mix, and i'm not surprised that rental versions are starting to spring up. It really does defeat the value of the BD medium though, unless the version of the movie is making use of the extra storage, it's just wasted space....

newmanfamilyvlogs · « **Reply #6 on:** January 31, 2011, 02:15:53 pm »

And all the while the slow creep of increased bandwidth quietly whispers the death of physical media, and with it, any sense of ownership over content.

RayB · « **Reply #7 on:** January 31, 2011, 02:29:55 pm »

If you stream a Netflix movie, do you get "extras" ?

boykster · « **Reply #8 on:** January 31, 2011, 02:31:22 pm »

Quote from: RayB on January 31, 2011, 02:29:55 pm

If you stream a Netflix movie, do you get "extras" ?

nope - movie only

Mikezilla · « **Reply #9 on:** January 31, 2011, 02:49:39 pm »

My VCR never told me things like that, or when I could skip ahead or whatnot.

Jesus. Thats ---smurfin--- ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---. I would have been outraged. Thats unbelievable. Does Netflix make their own DVD's and Blu-Rays? My GF brought to my attention all the discs say Netflix on them when we started getting season discs of Dexter. Then Inception and Get him to the Greek said it too. So what the ---fudgesicle--- do you have to do in order to see the extras, or the ---smurfin--- shorts?

Silas (son of Silas) · « **Reply #10 on:** January 31, 2011, 02:52:51 pm »

Quote from: cotmm68030 on January 31, 2011, 02:15:53 pm

And all the while the slow creep of increased bandwidth quietly whispers the death of physical media, and with it, any sense of ownership over content.

It's been so long since I used physical media its unbelievable.

Last week one of my disks failed in my media server/arcade cab, so I turned it off until the new disk arrived. Because we don't have TV signal coming into the house (no terrestrial, no satellite, no cable) I was forced into digging out some DVDs from the loft. After much hunting through boxes I found some only to find my DVD player doesn't work.

Mikezilla · « **Reply #11 on:** January 31, 2011, 02:53:15 pm »

I have never heard of a damn "rental" version. Man, the industry gets you anyway they can. Then they wonder why people pirate stuff.

ark_ader · « **Reply #12 on:** January 31, 2011, 03:11:09 pm »

Over the pond we have I Love Film. I get some movies which are the basic, but sometimes there are special features.

For the little bit extra we can select a Xbox 360 title. Well I haven't seen any yet.

The streaming service is not very good.

Turn around times are very good though.

RayB · « **Reply #13 on:** January 31, 2011, 04:44:02 pm »

As long as they dont edit rentals, I have no problem with it. Anyone remember back in the 90's when Blockbuster, Musicworld and other rental places carried censored versions of certain movies, but it didn't say so on the box when you rented it.

jamesjones626 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 31, 2011, 07:32:57 pm »

I dont see what the big deal is, I never watch the extras.

DaveMMR · « **Reply #15 on:** January 31, 2011, 10:20:33 pm »

It happened to me when I rented Scott Pilgrim from the Redbox. Had the stamp and all the special features were disabled.

But I actually don't mind it so much either - I actually thought it was a good idea from a business standpoint. DVD's (and BluRays) were always priced to own and if they have to cripple rental versions to keep prices from going up (theoretically) on movies for the consumer to buy or for the rental company that'll pass those fees to the consumers, so be it. If they're special features I'm interested in seeing it's because I'm interested in the movie itself and would be buying it anyway. I'm only spending the buck for rental or streaming it for the flat Netflix fee so I don't particularly feel ripped off.

Samstag · « **Reply #16 on:** February 01, 2011, 01:54:32 am »

Amazon's video on demand service carries a lot of extras, and offers them free even if you don't rent the associated movie. I don't know if they're any good or the same as you get on the retail version since I rarely watch extras.

Ginsu Victim · « **Reply #17 on:** February 01, 2011, 02:05:46 am »

Quote from: jamesjones626 on January 31, 2011, 07:32:57 pm

I dont see what the big deal is, I never watch the extras.

I buy some movies more for the extras than the film itself. Rob Zombie's Halloween.....not a very good movie, but the 4 hour "making of" intrigued me enough to get it.

Malenko · « **Reply #18 on:** February 01, 2011, 08:59:00 am »

Haruman, you can borrow my BluRay of that movie if you want.

piecesof8 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 01, 2011, 09:25:42 am »

I had noticed that with the last few blu-rays I've received from Netflix too. Not a big deal for me though - if I'm renting it, that means I want to watch the movie and send it back. If the movie was one that I like enough to watch all the extras or for repeated viewings, I'd buy it.

I haven't tried streaming Netflix to my TV yet, mostly because the selection pretty much sucks right now - looking at my queue, less than 20% of the movies I have in there are currently streamable. My other reason for hanging onto physical media is quality: blu-rays look amazing on my 52" TV, but I wonder how much quality I'd have to exchange for the convenience of streaming?

Samstag · « **Reply #20 on:** February 01, 2011, 10:32:39 am »

Quote from: piecesof8 on February 01, 2011, 09:25:42 am

My other reason for hanging onto physical media is quality: blu-rays look amazing on my 52" TV, but I wonder how much quality I'd have to exchange for the convenience of streaming?

Netflix looks pretty damn good if you have decent bandwidth.

ChadTower · « **Reply #21 on:** February 01, 2011, 10:35:55 am »

Quote from: Ginsu Victim on February 01, 2011, 02:05:46 am

Quote from: jamesjones626 on January 31, 2011, 07:32:57 pm
I dont see what the big deal is, I never watch the extras.

I buy some movies more for the extras than the film itself. Rob Zombie's Halloween.....not a very good movie, but the 4 hour "making of" intrigued me enough to get it.

Buying is not renting, right?

I stopped using optical media a long time ago. I'm not a video quality whore by any means but I go so sick and tired of getting 70 minutes into a movie and have the disc turn up unreadable. It happened probably 75% of the time with Netflix. What a waste of time.

piecesof8 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 01, 2011, 10:45:41 am »

Quote from: Samstag on February 01, 2011, 10:32:39 am

Netflix looks pretty damn good if you have decent bandwidth.

Oh, I gots bandwidth ("fiber to the home" from my local phone co)... Curious as to where you would rate it - DVD quality, better, worse?

HaRuMaN · « **Reply #23 on:** February 01, 2011, 10:47:06 am »

Quote from: ChadTower on February 01, 2011, 10:35:55 am

so sick and tired of getting 70 minutes into a movie and have the disc turn up unreadable. It happened probably 75% of the time with Netflix. What a waste of time.

Maybe your mailman doesn't like you... I would say I get an unreadable disk 5% of the time, if that.

Samstag · « **Reply #24 on:** February 01, 2011, 10:48:39 am »

Quote from: ChadTower on February 01, 2011, 10:35:55 am

I stopped using optical media a long time ago. I'm not a video quality whore by any means but I go so sick and tired of getting 70 minutes into a movie and have the disc turn up unreadable. It happened probably 75% of the time with Netflix. What a waste of time.

Wow. I've been seeing something much closer to zero percent on my netflix rentals. I think I've had one cracked disk and one that skipped a couple of times but was otherwise fully playable. Everything else I've ever received from them has been flawless.

Quote from: piecesof8 on February 01, 2011, 10:45:41 am

Quote from: Samstag on February 01, 2011, 10:32:39 am
Netflix looks pretty damn good if you have decent bandwidth.

Oh, I gots bandwidth ("fiber to the home" from my local phone co)... Curious as to where you would rate it - DVD quality, better, worse?

Close to DVD quality, or better for their HD content. The HD stuff they have available usually looks better than the HD content I get from U-verse, despite the fact that U-verse also provides my internet feed.

ChadTower · « **Reply #25 on:** February 01, 2011, 10:55:50 am »

Quote from: Samstag on February 01, 2011, 10:48:39 am

Wow. I've been seeing something much closer to zero percent on my netflix rentals. I think I've had one cracked disk and one that skipped a couple of times but was otherwise fully playable. Everything else I've ever received from them has been flawless.

That was 3-4 years ago now. It's not like you can tell by looking that a disc is going to fail towards the end of the movie. Not like my DVD player was crappy, either as it was consistent across 3 of them and a couple PCs. That's why I got into XBMC and started streaming everything. It's a little more upfront effort but LAN streaming just works once set up.

piecesof8 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 01, 2011, 11:06:55 am »

I've used Netflix since 2003, and I can remember receiving exactly one unplayable disc. As far as I know my mailperson doesn't have anything against me, though. Did you notice any footprints on your Netflix envelopes?

Quote from: Samstag on February 01, 2011, 10:48:39 am

Close to DVD quality, or better for their HD content. The HD stuff they have available usually looks better than the HD content I get from U-verse, despite the fact that U-verse also provides my internet feed.

Sounds pretty good... Now if they can just get their movie selection up, maybe I'll be able to loosen my deathgrip on my outdated physical media.

Mikezilla · « **Reply #27 on:** February 01, 2011, 11:30:58 am »

Quote from: piecesof8 on February 01, 2011, 11:06:55 am

I've used Netflix since 2003, and I can remember receiving exactly one unplayable disc. As far as I know my mailperson doesn't have anything against me, though. Did you notice any footprints on your Netflix envelopes?

Quote from: Samstag on February 01, 2011, 10:48:39 am
Close to DVD quality, or better for their HD content. The HD stuff they have available usually looks better than the HD content I get from U-verse, despite the fact that U-verse also provides my internet feed.

Sounds pretty good... Now if they can just get their movie selection up, maybe I'll be able to loosen my deathgrip on my outdated physical media.

Is it just in these forums that I hear about "physical media being dead" or what? I have heard that numerous times on these boards. It confounds me. My only beef with netflix is their poor streaming content. Everything else is great, I have never recieved a cracked disc, or an unreadable one.

Bootay · « **Reply #28 on:** February 01, 2011, 12:30:25 pm »

I have been streaming my content without physical media for a while now. Then the other day my 2 year old daughter wanted to watch some Disney movie that I don't have on my media center but have on dvd. So I popped it in the dusty old dvd player....waited through the corporate ads....waited through a bunch of unskippable coming soon ads, waited through a anti-piracy ad where some guy is breaking into a car or some crap, waited through the FBI warning, waited through the intro to get to the menu..took about 10 full minutes just to get to the menu that tells me I can watch the movie. That experience alone is worth having a media center to stream content. What a hassle just to watch a movie.

As for Netflix...when I used them their service was top notch. This was a couple years back. I tried Blockbusters online service too and it was ok...but lacking in comparison. Plus Blockbuster often sent the me the wrong movie or broken discs.

knave · « **Reply #29 on:** February 01, 2011, 01:08:51 pm »

Netflix has 1000's of movies available for streaming...if you can't find something "good" to watch you are not trying.

You can always turn it off and start something else. I have discovered some really good movies that I otherwise never would have heard of.

piecesof8 · « **Reply #30 on:** February 01, 2011, 01:09:27 pm »

Quote from: Mikezilla on February 01, 2011, 11:30:58 am

Is it just in these forums that I hear about "physical media being dead" or what? I have heard that numerous times on these boards. It confounds me. My only beef with netflix is their poor streaming content. Everything else is great, I have never recieved a cracked disc, or an unreadable one.

I wasn't totally serious when I said that... I don't really think it's dead, but I think there are definite signs that the "old" model for getting temporary access to content - i.e. renting a physical disc - will eventually go away in favor of streaming. I don't see how it could ever fully replace physical media though, because you'll still have people who want to own their favorite movies in the best quality format. Unless I'm the only one who cares how they look.

Ginsu Victim · « **Reply #31 on:** February 01, 2011, 01:10:58 pm »

I've only had to replace two unwatchable rentals from Netflix since I started using the service in August.

ChadTower · « **Reply #32 on:** February 01, 2011, 01:20:59 pm »

I wonder how much that has to do with the genres being rented. I don't usually watch A list stuff or new releases. I was always scoping around special interests, sports events, D level horror movies, kung fu movies, etc. The discs I was getting were definitely not new discs and often had a waitlist on them.

hyiu · « **Reply #33 on:** February 01, 2011, 02:14:27 pm »

joined netflix for years... I think I have about 5 cracked, skipping or wrong discs total...
I think service is good... since first few years, I have 3 discs at once, and I was really working on them.
they also have quick turn around.

I only have DSL, but streaming on a 15 in laptop is better quality than I expect.
never tried on a big lcd, but I would suspect quality should be comparable to dvd, maybe better...

Bootay · « **Reply #34 on:** February 01, 2011, 03:43:30 pm »

Quote from: hyiu on February 01, 2011, 02:14:27 pm

joined netflix for years... I think I have about 5 cracked, skipping or wrong discs total...
I think service is good... since first few years, I have 3 discs at once, and I was really working on them.
they also have quick turn around.

I only have DSL, but streaming on a 15 in laptop is better quality than I expect.
never tried on a big lcd, but I would suspect quality should be comparable to dvd, maybe better...

It is...and they have HD content as well.

DaveMMR · « **Reply #35 on:** February 01, 2011, 07:23:36 pm »

Quote from: knave on February 01, 2011, 01:08:51 pm

Netflix has 1000's of movies available for streaming...if you can't find something "good" to watch you are not trying.

You can always turn it off and start something else. I have discovered some really good movies that I otherwise never would have heard of.

+1

Forget about getting new releases... and you'll often be disappointed if you're looking for a specific film. But I've queued up quite a few titles I want to watch when I have a few minutes. I've been able to catch up on 30 Rock, watch some good British sketch comedy shows (A Bit of Fry & Laurie, Monty Python, etc.) and some decent episodes of MST3K. They also have some interesting documentaries.

For new releases or other films, I have many on-demands channels on FiOS, plus my local Redbox.

boykster · « **Reply #36 on:** February 01, 2011, 11:13:43 pm »

I've been with Netflix since 2000 - crazy! I've had at most 4-5 'bad' discs that had issues playing for whatever reason, and I've only ever gotten the wrong disc once very early on. I've also "lost" 2 discs - one was my fault and I put the wrong DVD in the sleeve, and the second one was honestly and truly lost in the mail.

I think there will always be some market for physical media - I'm a video snob and LOVE the high quality HD video on Bluray. I've seen the current 'best' streaming offerings and will admit that it is better than DVD quality by quite a bit, but still pales in comparison to uncompressed BD titles. For most viewing, it's not an issue, but on a 92" screen (1080p projector), you can see the difference. I'll gladly take the convenience of streaming for older 'library' type movies and for TV stuff....

newmanfamilyvlogs · « **Reply #37 on:** February 02, 2011, 05:48:31 am »

Quote from: boykster on February 01, 2011, 11:13:43 pm

I'm a video snob and LOVE the high quality HD video on Bluray.

The whole physical media vs streaming issue is a bit of a false dichotomy. There is also the third choice of non-streaming straight up download and watch later.

A movie transfered from Bluray straight to a harddrive with no transcoding (eg: a bit perfect copy) will have the exact same quality as the original disc. There's nothing magical about the plastic it's on. So if we assume that an average Bluray disc is around 50 gigabytes (I believe this is the current max capacity) then we get come up with the following:
A new 3 terabyte hard drive is $209.
3 terabytes / 50 gigabytes = 61.44 movies stored at a time
209 / 61.44 = $3.40 per movie stored.

And that price is only going to drop.
Now this assumes that the cost of bandwidth is negligible. On a modest 10 megabit connection it should take around 12 hours to get a single 50 gig film. Still faster than waiting on the mail.

boykster · « **Reply #38 on:** February 02, 2011, 10:04:16 am »

No argument here...it's all about the bits, not the medium. I just dont see netflix and content providers rushing to offer full bit rate downloads, hence my comment on physical media.

newmanfamilyvlogs · « **Reply #39 on:** February 02, 2011, 11:32:42 am »

http://www.techspot.com/news/42036-mail-service-costs-netflix-20-times-more-than-streaming.html

You never know, once the telecoms finally get us up to some modern broadband speeds, it might happen. If I've got a 100mbit pipe, suddenly that 50 gigs (which would include all the extras and what not) comes down to a transfer time of around an hour and a half. That's streamable territory. If this is the kind of connection 'everybody' has, then the infrastructure to support it is already there.


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