Help me pick an LCD monitor

[MagicManPA]

I'm using an old Gunsmoke cabinet. I want to go LCD monitor. I play games that mainly use horizontal monitors i.e Mortal Kombat etc. It is 14 1/4" between the red lines & just shy of 21 1/2" between the green lines. Past the green lines is where the monitor bezel sits to hold the board that goes around the monitor to hide the back of the cab so I want to leave that intact.

I've read so much stuff on TN, IPS, etc that my head is now spinning.   I am building this MAME cab on a budget & was hoping to keep it around $100 or less for the monitor, but I will go up to $200 if it's going to be really worth my money. It's going to be a 2 player cab w/the monitor mounted horizontally. A lot of the monitors I see suggested here cost $350 or more. Not what I was looking to spend at all.  

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236052
22.13" from edge to edge. Looks like you have a bit of space past the green marks. With a monitor like this you'll have edge to edge picture. Just build a ledge for the stand and bolt it down.

[MagicManPA]

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[Donkbaca]

Get a 20 inch or 21.3 inch LCD. They are pretty big. The biggest 4:3 lcds you can get are 21.3". Mine is 18 inches across and 13" tall or something like that. you can get a used one for under 200 bucks on eBay and they have the nicer Pva and ips screens. A 4:3 21.3 " screen is as tall as a 26" widescreen for comparisons sake, so its plenty big and you get to retain the same 4:3 aspect ratio.

Do a search for Blanka. His posts regarding different screens are very informational

[HanoiBoi]

MagicManPA, you might have a hard time finding a used monitor that also meets your specific measurement requirements....once you figure them out.  cotmm68030 linked you to a decently priced 23.6" monitor for $170 (after rebate) that has a 5 star (egg) review from over 1330 users!  Please realize that you would get more than just the monitor at that price.  1) Asus, 2) Newegg, 3) 1330 5-Egg reviews! 4) Known measurements and specs 5) no uncertainty of someone else's issues.

I know you said you want to use LCD, but if you want cheap and functional (for now), you could easily toss an old 19" 'beige box' monitor and be done.

For mounting, it can be done fairly easily using the existing wood.  Assuming your LCD will have VESA mount holes, create a mount out of MDF, plywood, etc..  Cut the material to the inside width of the cab.  Grab the appropriate screws from your local hardware store (M4, I believe, no longer than 10mm...I found some at Home Depot).  Once you've got your LCD mounted on your material you can bring that mounted combo in from the back of your cabinet.  Measure to see how far it is from the MDF/Ply to the existing wood (near the inside edges of the cab).  You'll most likely need to build out your existing wood on the sides until you have enough wood to mount your LCD/MDF combo.  Use wood screws long enough to go through the MDF/Ply into the existing wood.

If you are concerned about support, you could cut your MDF/Ply so that it also sits on the cabinet shelf.  You'd just have to do some measuring so that you don't mount the LCD too high or too low.

For blocking off space around the monitor, a quick and cheap way would be to grab a piece of black posterboard for $1-2 from a dollar store, craft store, or even Wal-Mart and then cut out the center as if you're framing the monitor.  

 

[MagicManPA]

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[MagicManPA]

What resolution etc should I be going with? It will be mounted horizontally.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

Blanka: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=profile;u=16086;sa=showPosts

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

That monitor I linked you to is going to be about as high resolution as your are going to find, it's 1080p.

The higher resolution you have to work with on an LCD, the closer you can match the feel of an original CRT monitor by use of things like filters and scanlines. It will also help make vector games look nicer as they can be antialiased and the like.

it MIGHT be possible to find a larger 16:9 LCD that would fit vertically that would give you a larger horizontal image to work with. How big is the overall space in which the monitor can rest?

If you find an LCD with a wide enough viewing angle that vertical orientation is feasible, you would have your 'wasted space' on a 4:3 image above and below, instead of side to side, giving you a more efficient utilization of available display area.

[MagicManPA]

That monitor I linked you to is going to be about as high resolution as your are going to find, it's 1080p.

The higher resolution you have to work with on an LCD, the closer you can match the feel of an original CRT monitor by use of things like filters and scanlines. It will also help make vector games look nicer as they can be antialiased and the like.

it MIGHT be possible to find a larger 16:9 LCD that would fit vertically that would give you a larger horizontal image to work with. How big is the overall space in which the monitor can rest?

If you find an LCD with a wide enough viewing angle that vertical orientation is feasible, you would have your 'wasted space' on a 4:3 image above and below, instead of side to side, giving you a more efficient utilization of available display area.

Dimensions are in my 1st post. What are good viewing angles to look for?

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

I already looked at the dimensions when I suggested the first monitor. What I'm asking about is the top to bottom measurement.

[MagicManPA]

I already looked at the dimensions when I suggested the first monitor. What I'm asking about is the top to bottom measurement.

Oh, oops. I will get that tonight when I get home.

[MagicManPA]

This monitor should serve me well for MAME, correct?
http://accessories.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-9333

[Donkbaca]

TN is the worst LCD technology, it has the worst picture of the LCD technologies.  You should get and IPS or PVA screen, or just put a CRT in there.
here is a quick lowdown:
http://www.overstock.com/guides/how-to-choose-an-lcd-monitor

This is the monitor I use:
http://www.necdisplay.com/Products/Product/?product=c6bd6e27-506a-4fbc-bfed-1daafbcca118

I prefer a 4:3 display also.  That's how the horizontal arcade games are displayed.  You go 16:9 widescreen and you either have a squished and stretched image, or a letterbox bars on the side.  THe height of a 21.3 inch 4:3 display is the same as a 26 inch 16:9.

If you want to go cheap, go CRT, if you want to go LCD, at least get a good one.

[MagicManPA]

TN is the worst LCD technology, it has the worst picture of the LCD technologies.  You should get and IPS or PVA screen, or just put a CRT in there.
here is a quick lowdown:
http://www.overstock.com/guides/how-to-choose-an-lcd-monitor

This is the monitor I use:
http://www.necdisplay.com/Products/Product/?product=c6bd6e27-506a-4fbc-bfed-1daafbcca118

I prefer a 4:3 display also.  That's how the horizontal arcade games are displayed.  You go 16:9 widescreen and you either have a squished and stretched image, or a letterbox bars on the side.  THe height of a 21.3 inch 4:3 display is the same as a 26 inch 16:9.

If you want to go cheap, go CRT, if you want to go LCD, at least get a good one.

What LCDs do you suggest? Doing this on a budget.

[MagicManPA]

I already looked at the dimensions when I suggested the first monitor. What I'm asking about is the top to bottom measurement.

About 18" not counting the area w/where the monitor bezel sits.

[Donkbaca]

Arcade games were displayed at 600x800 resolution, same as CRT tv's. It's easy to hook up a cry to a tv, just get an ATI video card with video out. You can get one off eBay for under 20 bucks.

Of you hook up an LCD, the picture gets unconverted to the native resolution of the LCD and it will look pixelated and blocky.  Also, the refresh rates on lcds are much higher than the CRTs do you get tearing and stuff with the LCD. If you can find an old tv with s video that will fit in their it would be the easiest, cheapest way to go.
You can probably get one off craigslist or local pawn and thrift shops for dirt cheap

[MagicManPA]

Get a 20 inch or 21.3 inch LCD. They are pretty big. The biggest 4:3 lcds you can get are 21.3". Mine is 18 inches across and 13" tall or something like that. you can get a used one for under 200 bucks on eBay and they have the nicer Pva and ips screens. A 4:3 21.3 " screen is as tall as a 26" widescreen for comparisons sake, so its plenty big and you get to retain the same 4:3 aspect ratio.

Do a search for Blanka. His posts regarding different screens are very informational

Have any model #s for these sub $200 units?

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

Arcade games were displayed at 600x800 resolution, same as CRT tv's. It's easy to hook up a cry to a tv, just get an ATI video card with video out. You can get one off eBay for under 20 bucks.

Of you hook up an LCD, the picture gets unconverted to the native resolution of the LCD and it will look pixelated and blocky.  Also, the refresh rates on lcds are much higher than the CRTs do you get tearing and stuff with the LCD. If you can find an old tv with s video that will fit in their it would be the easiest, cheapest way to go.
You can probably get one off craigslist or local pawn and thrift shops for dirt cheap

There is a lot of incorrect information here.

To start with, I'm not sure I can think of a single arcade game that ran at 600x800. Most of them ran in the 320x240 range, with either of those dimensions varying quite a bit. CRTs do not have a set resolution, and even if they did, it's usually described as somewhere around 720x480, in the case of NTSC.

Yes, when you run a lower resolution image than the native resolution of an LCD, it gets upconverted. However the various filters and effects available in a modern mame can go a long way to recreating the feel of a CRT (with a sufficiently high resolution monitor) by way of things like scanline emulation. In addition things like the SuperEagle filtering of the image can do a proper 'upconvert' by filling in pixels that didn't exist in the original to create smoother lines. Not everone likes this effect, but it does make low resolution games look smoother on an LCD.

Most LCDs do NOT have higher refresh rates than CRTs. Quite the opposite in fact. A nice computer CRT can easily run at 70, 85, 120, possibly even 200Hz at appropriate emulation resolutions. Almost every computer LCD you buy is locked to 60. Only newer '3D' LCDs are capable of higher refresh rates, and even then most of them are generating that higher refresh rate internally and not allowing the input to them to operate at that speed.

Tearing is not specifically the result of the refresh rate of the display device. Tearing occurs when the rate at which images are given to the display device is different from the rate at which the screen is drawn-- faster OR slower. If I have a refresh rate of 60hz on my monitor and my game is producing images at 53hz (Such as Mortal Kombat), then I'm going to have tearing, LCD OR CRT. The higher the refresh rate of the display device the less this might be noticeable because I've got more opportunities for the display to line up. Currently the ONLY way to prevent tearing is via a VSync option, which can cause its own issues.

A TV via Svideo will probably be the cheapest route, assuming you can get at TV cheap off CL. However it's not the most ideal picture and sometimes dealing with switching the TV to the correct input, and getting the PC to display on the TV can be a hassle. The easiest route is almost certainly an LCD or computer CRT.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

I already looked at the dimensions when I suggested the first monitor. What I'm asking about is the top to bottom measurement.

About 18" not counting the area w/where the monitor bezel sits.

I was suggesting top to bottom of the entire available space. Though the more I look at monitors I'm not sure it would fit anyway.

I stand by my original suggestion as an LCD option.

A 21" CRT would look nice too. Start checking CL. (:

[HanoiBoi]

Here's a 23" Asus LCD at Newegg that can be had for $140

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236079&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL121410&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL121410-_-EMC-121410-Index-_-LCDMonitors-_-24236079-L0H

ASUS VH232H Glossy Black 23" 5ms Widescreen Full HD 1080p LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 ASCR 20000:1 w/Speakers & HDMI

Originally  $199.99
New Price $164.99
Is now     $154.99 with $10 off w/ promo code EMCZNZR76 that ends 12/20
Could be  $139.99 with a Mail In Rebate

[MagicManPA]

I already looked at the dimensions when I suggested the first monitor. What I'm asking about is the top to bottom measurement.

About 18" not counting the area w/where the monitor bezel sits.

I was suggesting top to bottom of the entire available space. Though the more I look at monitors I'm not sure it would fit anyway.

I stand by my original suggestion as an LCD option.

A 21" CRT would look nice too. Start checking CL. (:

I'm definitely going LCD. What about this TN vs ISP stuff? Will I regret buying a TN monitor if I end up going that way?

[MagicManPA]

How does this compare to the Dell I posted? Dell is a few bucks cheaper.

I'm also curious as to how this Dell & Asus compare to the NEC posted by Blanka. Found that NEC on ebay for about $220 shipped.

Here's a 23" Asus LCD at Newegg that can be had for $140

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236079&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL121410&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL121410-_-EMC-121410-Index-_-LCDMonitors-_-24236079-L0H

ASUS VH232H Glossy Black 23" 5ms Widescreen Full HD 1080p LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 ASCR 20000:1 w/Speakers & HDMI

Originally  $199.99
New Price $164.99
Is now     $154.99 with $10 off w/ promo code EMCZNZR76 that ends 12/20
Could be  $139.99 with a Mail In Rebate

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

The biggest difference you'll end up noticing between TN ans IPS is viewing angle; that is how far you can tilt side to side or up and down before the colors begin to look incorrect.

If you're mounting it horizontally and don't plan on having people viewing it from the sides, it's probably not going to make a huge difference.


As far as the NEC vs the other two, consider the following:


http://www.displaywars.com/21,3-inch-4x3-vs-23,6-inch-16x9

The 4:3 gives you a greater picture area for arcade games because they are almost square.

[MagicManPA]

That makes things much more clear, thanks. TN will be fine for me then. Hmm, do I want to spend an extra $70 or so for the NEC w/the better screen size or not now... 

The biggest difference you'll end up noticing between TN ans IPS is viewing angle; that is how far you can tilt side to side or up and down before the colors begin to look incorrect.

If you're mounting it horizontally and don't plan on having people viewing it from the sides, it's probably not going to make a huge difference.


As far as the NEC vs the other two, consider the following:


http://www.displaywars.com/21,3-inch-4x3-vs-23,6-inch-16x9

The 4:3 gives you a greater picture area for arcade games because they are almost square.

[Donkbaca]

Dude, I've posted about that 4:3 size thing like 4 times

Not just the viewing angle, the colors on TN screens are much more poor than IPS or VA screens because they don't display true 24 bit color.  They also have the worst native contrast ratios.  They are inferior technology and have poorer pircture quality.  If you had them side by side you would notice a huge difference. 

My main point earlier about resolutions and screen tearing is that you are going to have to put a lot more work into getting an LCD screen to look right and you will have issues with tearing and such that you wouldn't have to worry about on a tv.

Really though, a lot of this comes down to personal choice.  Some people care about certain things and others don't.

If you care mostly about getting something cheap that is easiest to set up, just pop in a crt tv with s-video and a 20 dollar ati video card with s-video out.  Then its just plug and play.

If you are particular about how something looks, well you are going to have to see what they look like to make that call.  Some people like the upscaled images, others hate them. Personally, I kinda like them. Yes there are things you can do to add effects like scanlines and such to lcd screens to try and reproduce the look, but I personally hate those things, they never look right to me.  Telling someone what kind of screen to get is really a personal choice. 

honestly I don't get what you are trying to do.  It seems that you want cheap and easy, yet going the LCD route you are doing neither.

[MagicManPA]

I feel like I'm being attacked or talked down to now. 

My first post said I wanted to go LCD & that has not changed. I am still going LCD. I'm simply trying to do this without spending a fortune. If I wanted to spend a fortune on this project I would have bought a new pre-built cab & all that jazz.

It has come down to the NEC you listed, Dell 2007FP or 1 of the ASUS or Dell widescreens linked in this thread. I was hoping to spend $100 tops on a monitor for this project, but that is out the window regardless of what I do. I am leaning toward the NEC or Dell 2007FP. Just having a hard time justifying that much $ for this as the whole project was supposed to be cheap & easy.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

Acer G215HAbd-1 Black 21.5" - $120
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009275
Cheap and on sale.

Might not be the best monitor, but it will get you playing games.

[HanoiBoi]

I was hoping to spend $100 tops on a monitor for this project, but that is out the window regardless of what I do.

I'm pretty confident that you could get a smaller LCD for $100 or less.  Is a 17" or 19" out of the question?  I do hear where Donkbaca is coming from.  It does seem like you're all over the board with this.  Yes, you said you want LCD and yes you want cheap.  But then it seems that you're looking to fit your space completely (or as completely as possible) and have the best monitor possible.   

Set your priorities, in order (LCD/CRT, cost, size, viewing angle, etc.)  Then look into the monitors that people have suggested.  You've got to do that work.  When you asked how does the ASUS compare with the Dell, I didn't answer because the points of comparison for you are not the same points of comparison for me.

Don't know if this would work, but maybe you could put MAME onto a laptop and take it over to Best Buy and see if you can hook up to some of their stuff?

Really, any monitor will do.  You'll be surprised how easy it is when you finally pull the trigger.  I had an old 17" CRT in mine until I decided to upgrade to a 23" ASUS.  The 17" was perfect for when I used it.

[Donkbaca]

Its frustrating because it does not seem like you
1) know what you want; or
2) are willing to find information yourself.  There is a lot of information on this board, and you keep asking the same questions over and over again.

You say you want an LCD because its cheap and easy, yet its not as cheap or easy as just getting a CRT and building a shelf.  So I am not at all clear why you want an LCD in the first place. 

I don't mean any disrespect, but a LOT of information is on here, and if you did a little work, i.e. read Blanka's posts, whom someone even posted the link to, it would clear up a lot of your confusion as to what makes a good LCD and why.

Finally, the question as to what is the best monitor is a question of personal preference.  Some people swear the only way to do it is to get a cga arcade monitor, others like CRT, some like LCD, its all a matter of preference.  Me?  My preference is S-video TV; Good LCD; Arcade Monitor; CRT monitor.

I find the S-video TV option to be the cheapest, and I like the picture the best.  It looks the most authentic to me and requires less tinkering in the settings to get it to look good. My second place vote would be a good LCD because it lets you build a slim cabinet, and I love the way slim cabinets look.  Arcade monitors IMHO are overrated, and Large CRT's are harder to find than an S-video TV.  So that's my ranking and rationale. 

You have a full size cabinet with room for a CRT.  If I were you, I would just get a TV, put it on a shelf and be done with it.

If you insist on going LCD because you like the way it looks better, then I would get a 4:3 21.3 inc LCD.  You can find one on e-bay for between 150 and 200 bucks used. 

If you want a widescreen LCD, for cheap, I would try to find a va or ips screen.  Or if you just don't care, get whichever one looks coolest.  Nothing is going to look horrible, some things will look better than others, but to you it might not be worth it to pay the extra price or whatever.  Its all about personal preference.

[MagicManPA]

My Priorities are set, thanks. No 17" or 19".
I'm not all over the place. I have said LCD from day 1.Read my last post, I even said which 2 I have it down to. If another comparable 4:30 of the same size came along at a lesser price I'd go w/that, but as of right now it's the Dell 2007FP or HP 2065 like I said.

I opened MAME on my desktop widescreen monitor tonight & didn't like it at all. So I will stick w/what I said above.

I was hoping to spend $100 tops on a monitor for this project, but that is out the window regardless of what I do.

I'm pretty confident that you could get a smaller LCD for $100 or less.  Is a 17" or 19" out of the question?  I do hear where Donkbaca is coming from.  It does seem like you're all over the board with this.  Yes, you said you want LCD and yes you want cheap.  But then it seems that you're looking to fit your space completely (or as completely as possible) and have the best monitor possible.   

Set your priorities, in order (LCD/CRT, cost, size, viewing angle, etc.)  Then look into the monitors that people have suggested.  You've got to do that work.  When you asked how does the ASUS compare with the Dell, I didn't answer because the points of comparison for you are not the same points of comparison for me.

Don't know if this would work, but maybe you could put MAME onto a laptop and take it over to Best Buy and see if you can hook up to some of their stuff?

Really, any monitor will do.  You'll be surprised how easy it is when you finally pull the trigger.  I had an old 17" CRT in mine until I decided to upgrade to a 23" ASUS.  The 17" was perfect for when I used it.

[MagicManPA]

Not willing to find info for myself? When did I say I didn't read any threads on the forum? How do you think I found all the model #s for the 4:3 LCDs to narrow it down to the 2 that I listed?

Its frustrating because it does not seem like you
1) know what you want; or
2) are willing to find information yourself.  There is a lot of information on this board, and you keep asking the same questions over and over again.

You say you want an LCD because its cheap and easy, yet its not as cheap or easy as just getting a CRT and building a shelf.  So I am not at all clear why you want an LCD in the first place. 

I don't mean any disrespect, but a LOT of information is on here, and if you did a little work, i.e. read Blanka's posts, whom someone even posted the link to, it would clear up a lot of your confusion as to what makes a good LCD and why.

Finally, the question as to what is the best monitor is a question of personal preference.  Some people swear the only way to do it is to get a cga arcade monitor, others like CRT, some like LCD, its all a matter of preference.  Me?  My preference is S-video TV; Good LCD; Arcade Monitor; CRT monitor.

I find the S-video TV option to be the cheapest, and I like the picture the best.  It looks the most authentic to me and requires less tinkering in the settings to get it to look good. My second place vote would be a good LCD because it lets you build a slim cabinet, and I love the way slim cabinets look.  Arcade monitors IMHO are overrated, and Large CRT's are harder to find than an S-video TV.  So that's my ranking and rationale. 

You have a full size cabinet with room for a CRT.  If I were you, I would just get a TV, put it on a shelf and be done with it.

If you insist on going LCD because you like the way it looks better, then I would get a 4:3 21.3 inc LCD.  You can find one on e-bay for between 150 and 200 bucks used. 

If you want a widescreen LCD, for cheap, I would try to find a va or ips screen.  Or if you just don't care, get whichever one looks coolest.  Nothing is going to look horrible, some things will look better than others, but to you it might not be worth it to pay the extra price or whatever.  Its all about personal preference.

[MagicManPA]

Bought an HP LP2065 for $95 tonight. 

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

How the hell did you manage 95$??

Nice score.

[MagicManPA]

How the hell did you manage 95$??

Nice score.

Ebay. He has a few more if anyone wants one.

[drventure]

Wow. that is a good price for that monitor!

[Blanka]

The 2065 is a great choice, especially for 95$! Besides it is IPS, it is fast too. It has no input lag and 8ms refresh, that combined is really fast for an LCD, even compared to many 2ms 27 inchers today that actually have 10-30ms lag. So this means you can use it for hardcore gaming!

[robertsig]

I just checked mine to be sure, and it's a S-IPS.   

But I didn't realize there was a panel lottery on the LP2065 monitor.  I know the equivalent Dell 2007FP had a lottery though.

So for your LP2065, you can check whether it is a PVA or IPS like this:

Turn monitor off
Hold the leftmost control panel button in while you turn it on.  Release power button first, then left CP button, then press the left CP button again to bring up the menu.
You should now see the service mode.  That will tell you your LCD panel type.

If it lists LM201U05 (or some variation), you have the S-IPS version.

[Blanka]

The other option is a MVA panel, very similar. Unlike Samsungs PVA panels, MVA is much faster (around 15ms lag+response) and has better blacks than IPS. Angles are comparable. IPS is still the speed champ, but either option is nice. But good to know there is an easy check.