Qbert's last NIB Stern

[Q*Bert_OP]

Additions to Avatar contained in the Avatar Limited Edition will include:
--Amp Suit with legs that march up and down, activated by solenoids
--Transporter cover that opens and closes, operated by an added motor
--A white pinball mixed among the silver balls and a sensor so that the
        game will increase scoring when the white ball is in play
--Shaker motor assembly
--Added game rules and computer code to operate these added devices
--More figurines decorating the game, including
        --Banshee figure hovering over the plastic ramp
        --Colonel Quaritch inside the Amp suit
        --Navi's mounted at the Navi target bank
--Increased number of control lamps and general illumination lamps
--Metal lower arch, enhanced with light up blue translucent windows
--Playfield support slides
--Traditional lockdown mechanism and front molding
--Playfields 1 to 25 will be signed
--Added playfield hard coat
--And of course full chrome package - side armor, lock bar, hinges, legs

Uh huh...release a LE a month after releasing the standard games... Great   move Gary! Why don't you make all those who pre-ordered Avatar feel screwed? I wouldn't mind paying $1k more for the "deluxe" game if given the choice. The price is not the issue...The issue is selling a toy as the standard issue game, then coming out a month later and selling the real Avatar? And the "white ball"? AFAIK, that technology is patented by Williams.

Enjoy the picture  

[Xiaou2]

I dont think all that additional stuff will save that game... but it is a step in the right direction. 

 The game is pretty baron of features, and if they realized that people wont buy crap, and actually made the attempt to change that... then good for them... for at very least the effort.   I agree it stinks for the early adopters... but heck, you didnt mind buying the pile in the first place.      You can always sell it and get the new version if you feel the games that good. (and or ask for an Upgrade Kit)

 Its no more different that what they do when selling DVDs these days, where there is added content on new re-releases.

 The biggest problem with adding things to a game 'after' its been designed... is that the layout probably cant change.  So even with tweaks, the game will always play a certain way.  If it has easy/poor shots, it will remain that way.  (which Avatar appears to have a very poor ball shot layout.  too basic/easy )

[Xiaou2]

Well, lets go over these...

Amp Suit with legs that march up and down, activated by solenoids

- cosmetic, not much value added.

 If the legs kicked the ball, or raises/lowered in front of a ball entrance, then that would have added real value to this feature, and been infinitely cooler.

--Transporter cover that opens and closes, operated by an added motor

- Whoopie.  Cosmetic, boring, useless.

 If the transporter opened up as a doorway for a ball, like a ball lock or jackpot entrance... then that would have been meaningful.  You could have made the shot to get into it very difficult, and after you entered it, the games mode changed from wheelchair world to Navi control.  The playfield could have changed lighting to make it more bluish and blacklights w/ glowing art. Even fiber optics embedded into the field for shimmering & color changing effects.

--A white pinball mixed among the silver balls and a sensor so that the
        game will increase scoring when the white ball is in play

- A gameplay feature. Any gameplay added is a good... BUT, why?!  What does the white ball represent?  It makes little sense at all IMOP.  In Twilight Zone, the ball was interesting because the games speed is horrifically slow.  It was also tied into the gumball lock... which gave it some meaning.  And even with all that... it didnt really create that much thrill to the player.

--Shaker motor assembly

- A cheap and good addition to a pin.  However, a typical shaker is mutldirectional.. where it would be much cooler if it were actually directional, such as a motor or rubber padded solenoid that jolted (lifted) the playfield up.

--Added game rules and computer code to operate these added devices
--More figurines decorating the game, including
        --Banshee figure hovering over the plastic ramp
        --Colonel Quaritch inside the Amp suit
        --Navi's mounted at the Navi target bank

 - Standard stuff that should have been on the original.  However, its still a poor investment when you consider that the real art investment should have been on playfield art & effects instead.  Plastic toys dont replace great artistry.  Hire REAL "GOOD" ARTISTS!

--Increased number of control lamps and general illumination lamps
--Metal lower arch, enhanced with light up blue translucent windows
--Playfield support slides
--Traditional lockdown mechanism and front molding
--Playfields 1 to 25 will be signed
--Added playfield hard coat

 - All should be standard here, with exception to the signing.  You could charge extra for that.

--And of course full chrome package - side armor, lock bar, hinges, legs

- Another pay-for option that should be offered.
 

 Id Like to see Steve Ritchies unfinished design, to see how he envisioned it.

[pinballwizard79]

Yes you got eff'd & I not only feel sorry for you but also pissed even tho I didnt get hosed.

Gary Stern took a fleet of his machines to Pinball Expo but wouldnt let anyone play them for less than like $2.50 per game or something (because its the tourney thats why....pfft, whatever dude). Thats a big ass event full of pinball junkies who are so committed they paid for a trip, hotel & admission fee. That was the "home market" he wanted to lure in but instead he runs em off with "you cant play these" at the expo & now the "real edition" of your machine that was introduced right after your check was cashed.

Blockbuster did ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- like that, so did (insert any random televangelist being scandalous here) & you know where they are now.

Maybe Madoff is his new investor?

[RayB]

Can someone explain how the white ball affects play? Where is the sensor? Is it for example in a multiple ball, as long as the white ball doesn't drain, it will keep multiball going? That type of thing? Or would it go as far  as a sensor in every outhole?

[Xiaou2]

Can someone explain how the white ball affects play?

 The basic principle is that the white ball is made of Ceramic, and is a lot lighter than a steel pinball.   This makes the ball move faster than a typical pinball.

 As PBJ explained, in TZ, there is a sensor which knows when the white ball is in play.  I think it gets loaded into a certain spot in the game once its found, so you must release it to get it in play.

 If the sensor is broken or not adjusted correctly, the ball will be put into play at some random moment.

[RayB]

Just shows how TZ is "too deep" for casual play. I played it about 10 times last month and NEVER got the gumball section to do anything. I thought it was just for show.

[Xiaou2]

 Admittedly, there is so much on TZ that its hard to see where things are.

 The biggest problems with TZ is that the game is too slow, and that its a 'stop-n-shot' game... (opinion).  The game has such poor flow, that unless you really understand what to hit, you wont feel like you can do anything on it.

 Personally, stop and shot games just dont do anything for me.  Its almost like having having 100 intermissions in an action movie. 

 I really think they should remove the ability to hold a flipper up in future machines.  Force people to play it fast, adding more challenge to things.

[Q*Bert_OP]

TZ is one of my favorites 

[Jeff AMN]

Twilight Zone pinball just flat out sucks period.  The only guys I've met that like it are 35+ and grew up watching the show or the reruns and are in love with the theme.  Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the show as well, but I don't have a boner for it.

No matter how complex you think it might be, it's still a Lawlor game and all his games boil down to shooting the same three shots in sequence over and over again.

Jim's gonna Jim.

[Jeff AMN]

I'm just joking, man. It does happen to be my favorite machine, and it always seems to be the big hit with visitors, but I can see how it would be little more than an exercise in frustration if it didn't click quite right with someone.

I have to laugh at Xiaou saying that he doesn't like games that have stop and go, because Indiana Jones is something of favorite of his. Personally I sought that game out for a good 6 months before getting one in good shape and restoring it to collector quality. It was something I was quite proud of until I put some quality time in on it and realized it was a clunky game with just a really pretty presentation.

[Xiaou2]

I have to laugh at Xiaou saying that he doesn't like games that have stop and go, because Indiana Jones is something of favorite of his

 Indy isnt as fast as something like BK2K,  but it you hit your shots well, you can get awesome fast flow going.

 Besides the multitude of modes, the Path of Adventure is probably my favorite feature.  You have to first unlock it.. then get up the ramp, then navigate it several times to get all the stones and extra bonuses.

 I really dig games like that, where you have to work pretty hard to get to things opened up.

 
 A friend of mine had a Space Station.  Its had a ramp on the left that had a drop target in front of it.  It was hard to even get the ball to go to that spot accurately, and without any ball losses... but then you had to do it a few times to knock the target down...  and then I believe a few more times to lock all the balls up.

 10 out of 20 tries, I couldnt get the ball up that ramp to full lock before I lost the game.  18 out of 20 tries I couldnt get the full multiball from that ramp.  (if my poor memory serves me correctly)   But every time Id fail, Id be driven to play over and over again.  Incredibly addictive... much more so that simply hitting a few drop targets over and over again.   Difficult shots and multi-staged gameplay is the bomb.

 Banzai Run was also like that.  I never got to play it more than a handful of times... but Loved that you had to work to get to the top backbox section... and then work some more to try to get good at that section (I always crashed and burned up top).

 All I can say, is that if you didnt like IJ, then there was either something wrong... mis-adjusted, poor level, Path of Adventure not level correct, and or the flippers needed to be rebuilt & calibrated (& with proper coil strengths).   Or, you just dont have good taste     
 

[Jeff AMN]

I remember when I was selling the IJ people would always be confused as to why I'd sell that before my other games. When I'd say, "I just don't like it" they'd look at me like I was stupid. I knew that the game already had plenty of fans, so it wasn't a case of having to convince someone that they wanted it. As soon as I posted it the offers piled on. What was interesting was that the market for a fully restored one was pretty mild, however. It took another really picky collector to finally take it off of my hands.

[Xiaou2]

Dude... it's okay.... you love Indiana Jones because you own one... it's cool, we get it.

 Actually, Im a fairly poor guy... so buying an expensive pin like IJ was a huge decision.

 I didnt buy it like some people buy pins, without playing them, or without playing any pins.   Many of the collectors I hang out with have entire basements filled with the top pins, all in Pristine well maintained condition.  Ive played every one of them there... as well as at the shows such as Allentown.  Ive also played the ones that rolled into the arcade I worked.

 So, I have good depth of experience & knowledge about pins.

 I cant recall where I saw the IJ first... but I think I played it a few times and thought it was fun.  Years and years later... I saw it at a laundromat, and got to spend a lot of time on it.   Some games it felt soso.. and others, the experience was incredible.  The more I played it... the more I dug it.  After about 2 to 3 weekends of visits... I decided I HAD to have it.  Pulled the trigger on an ebay auction... and my credit card was aching for a long time.

 As I said, Ive played a Lot of pins, and as a part of a pinball group, have played them regularly... but my opinion of IJ really hasnt changed.  In fact, one of the other collectors picked up one... after years of verbally dissing it.  Quite funny to see happen.  heh

 The only thing I dont care for on the game is that the multiball lock seems too easy to get with that center shot path.  Maybe if they had switched the Challenge mode with the multiball lock, it would have made the thing damn near perfect.

[Jeff AMN]

I'm just giving Xiaou a hard time, I'm happy he likes the game. It didn't stick with me in the long run, though I wish it had. It's such a gorgeous game and such a perfect theme for pinball.

[Q*Bert_OP]

Here are some pictures of what the new Limited edition *v*t*r looks like.

http://s868.photobucket.com/albums/ab241/pinballwizard2009/Avatar%20LE%20%20Pics%20from%20GMM/

No, it's not mine, and no, I refuse to buy one. The LE has an extra microswitch at the ramp entrance, which should be standard. The ramp guards should also be standard, like they have been on all the recent games.

[Q*Bert_OP]

Not really. I'm looking to get a Medieval Madness now. I already have all the parts to do a high end restoration.

[RayB]

They seem to put a lot of attention to detail on the mech walker:

Stern's Facebook page showing mech for LE

[Q*Bert_OP]

I prefer LOTR just because it's newer and I haven't heard the voice calls eleventy billion times.

How many MMs have you had now?  4?

I know I'm in the minority on this one, but I don't really like LOTR. I also don't care to own a TAF ever again. I'll play both, but don't care to own either.

As far as me even owning 1 MM, you're confusing me with Fred.  I've been inches away from buying one several times, then something else comes along. Take Iron Plastic Man for instance. I had $8k ready for an MM, then news of that game comes out. I was mildly interested in it. Then, a friend of mine offers me one at the elusive dealer price. I couldn't turn that down. So far, that has been the worst game I've bought. There is now a nice CV sitting in its place. 

Avatar isn't a bad game, but if I can sell it soon and get my money back, I can afford that MM once again.

[ChadTower]

Twilight Zone pinball just flat out sucks period.  The only guys I've met that like it are 35+ and grew up watching the show or the reruns and are in love with the theme.  Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the show as well, but I don't have a boner for it.

I owned one and couldn't stand playing it.  I have no nostalgia for the show.  The rules are stupidly complex and there are too many blind shots. 

IIRC the game kept track of when the powerball was on the field and changed scoring.  It detected that by knowing when the powerball was next to be kicked into the shooter lane via an opto and a inductor.  Opto open + no metal ball = powerball.  Then it could tell the same way when the powerball drains via the last trough switch.  At least that's how I remember it.