Why do all game sites keep gushing over Kinect's voice commands?

[Vigo]

And because Fanboy is spelt with an "i", you know it was written by someone who isn't a fanyboy themself. 

If I know you are an adult you get the "i". 

Just as long as I don't have to pronounce it like a wannabe ganster. 

[shmokes]

The Kinect is on the same path.

Very likely true. But my question is do you still think that is going to happen on the 360? Do you still believe that you will see big-budget games with deep gameplay and narrative rather than exclusively casual gaming stuff. Or even smaller budget games that manage to accomplish the same.

Although I have criticized the tech, and I continue to think that its implementation on the 360 has several serious limitations, my assessment throughout this thread has been primarily a market analysis. I've said over and over that the tech has a lot of potential but it cannot be realized until the next gen. It's limited on the 360 by the tech (super laggy, implementation only lends itself to casual gaming), but especially by simple economics, i.e., it is an expensive hardware add-on that shipped like five years into the 360's life.

If the answer to the above question is yes, the secondary question is why, or how do you believe this. I mean, is there some game in particular that you anticipate will change everything? Because so far there is nothing. Literally nothing. there are some good experiences to be had, but they are Dance Central good, not Mass Effect good. Those are two radically different standards of good.

Keep in mind, I'm not asking you what you think Kinect is capable of on the 360. I'm asking you what you expect that it will do on the 360.

[RandyT]

Just as long as I don't have to pronounce it like a wannabe ganster.  

Whatever "fires your rockets"...moving along....

Very likely true. But my question is do you still think that is going to happen on the 360? Do you still believe that you will see big-budget games with deep gameplay and narrative rather than exclusively casual gaming stuff. Or even smaller budget games that manage to accomplish the same.

Using the original XBOX analog, I would say not only "yes", but that it needs to in order to show that it is a viable "next step" for any new platform MS puts out which includes the technology (either as it is, or in a more refined form.)  If it cannot show itself to be more than a gimmick (I believe it has already gone beyond that, but for the sake of discussion...) it will not have succeeded in developing the market for the future of that genre of gaming.

It is also important to note that the next step of bringing real world items into the virtual world, as was originally promised in the previews of the technology, is now being given some "light of day".  If you look at the "Kinect Fun Labs" site, you can see some of the newer things currently being done, which will undoubtedly be made part of the Kinect API for developers, and be finding their way into gaming.

But again, you are placing emphasis on the style of game you like, not the style of gaming the Kinect is best suited for.  Dance Central is a great game.  It sells Kinects and 360s.  One could even say that titles such as this have more replay value than some (or most) of the titles you place on such high pedestals.  The "sports" games hold their own as well, and they should, considering Wii Sports was responsible for many, if not most of that consoles sales to the non-avid gamer market.  Does Kinect have a place in a title like Mass Effect?  I don't know.  But I have stated before that it will only take another unique use of the control scheme, used to the same extent as it is used in Dance Central, to trigger another mass buy in.  If they can't find one, it won't be for lack of trying .  But there is always still the "nuclear option" of hybridizing the control scheme.  The addition of some type of traditional control to the motion capture will open up a big new world of possibilities, and I predict that you will see this happen within the 360 life cycle, albeit not until the "controlerless" options are nearly exhausted.

[shmokes]

It's not just me. That's the beauty of Metacritic. It's not a diabolical conspiracy. Certain gaims are just universally loved, others are universally hated, and others are liked by some, disliked by others. It's silly to suggest that it would be better or even feasible to try every single game out personally before forming any preliminary judgments.

Party games have their place, but they can't carry a system (see: Wii fatigue).

At any rate, I disagree with most of what you said there, but I suppose we'll see. Maybe I'll resurrect the thread again in another year once the Wii U is out.

[RandyT]

It's not just me. That's the beauty of Metacritic. It's not a diabolical conspiracy. Certain gaims are just universally loved, others are universally hated, and others are liked by some, disliked by others. It's silly to suggest that it would be better or even feasible to try every single game out personally before forming any preliminary judgments.

By those who participate in whatever process Metacritic uses, I presume.  I think the word "universal" is used rather liberally above.

Party games have their place, but they can't carry a system (see: Wii fatigue).

   The 360 carries itself fine, party games, Kinect or not.  The Kinect need only carry itself.

At any rate, I disagree with most of what you said there, but I suppose we'll see. Maybe I'll resurrect the thread again in another year once the Wii U is out.

See you then

[lilshawn]

just to throw in my 2 cents (and a wrench in the works...) There have been many inventions that initially where not sucessfull but did catch on.

when the Wii came out, there was a Sony executive that made fun of the controller and nunchuck  for the Wii... saying something along the lines of how it would be ridiculous to play a game that way. waving your arms around like an idiot...(my words not his)

fast forward 5 years and whats this?!?! the PlayStation move? but wait isn't that the same thing Sony was saying was bull plop 5 years ago?

everyone thinks new technology is stupid and retarded until we take a step back dig our heads out of our console fanboy asses and look at the big picture and realize it might actually have some potential.

[shmokes]

It's sort of annoying to be dismissed as a fanboy by default if you criticize something. Even if I turn out to be wrong and Kinect proves capable of doing everything I've suggested it couldn't, and it does it all during the 360's lifecycle, I haven't written a single thing here that wasn't perfectly logical and carefully reasoned. I don't have much brand loyalty. My favorite console this generation is the PS3 (but only because I was slightly more interested in its exclusives and I'm not much of an online gamer; I think the 360 is probably better for most gamers). Last generation it was the Xbox. The generation before it was the N64.

[ark_ader]

It's sort of annoying to be dismissed as a fanboy by default if you criticize something. Even if I turn out to be wrong and Kinect proves capable of doing everything I've suggested it couldn't, and it does it all during the 360's lifecycle, I haven't written a single thing here that wasn't perfectly logical and carefully reasoned. I don't have much brand loyalty. My favorite console this generation is the PS3 (but only because I was slightly more interested in its exclusives and I'm not much of an online gamer; I think the 360 is probably better for most gamers). Last generation it was the Xbox. The generation before it was the N64.

You have to admit, that is a very fair point. 

Kinect hasn't been fully exploited yet -> game wise.

[Necroticart]

Kinect hasn't been fully exploited yet -> game wise.

I hate to tell you this it's never going to be. Microsoft is already sending out dev kits for their next console meaning support for the 360 and games are likely to be cut. It's the same thing that happened to the original Xbox. also those current titles in development can be ported to the new console considering the architecture is mostly the same. so basically the 360 and Kinect have less than a year at most because it's to expensive for Microsoft to support them both at the same time.

[shmokes]

It's not expensive to support the 360 right now. It's profitable. Unlike the original Xbox, the 360 has been embraced by the entire gaming community. There's little reason to think Microsoft will abruptly cease supporting it the way they did Xbox 1. It's much more likely that they will lower its price and keep it on the market as a budget alternative long after the release of Xbox 3, the same way PSX and PS2 were supported long after the arrival of their successors.

[lilshawn]

You have to expect microsoft to keep the kinect technology and the ability to utilize it to themselves at first. They are going to want to try and capitalize on the technology first and foremost. porting crappy touchscreen games (fruit ninja etc.) is simply a way to boost the "kinect compatible" game count.

now that the DEV kits are being distributed, I'm sure we will start seeing ALOT more games utilizing it now that third party manufacturers are going to be able to make software for it.

i fully expect the amount of kinect games to not only increase over the next year or so, but the quality of the games to vastly improve as well now that the developer kits are out.

[shmokes]

Now that the dev kits are out? What are you talking about? 3rd party dev kit were out prior to launch. No console manufacturer is going to wait until a year after release to distribute dev kits. More likely they had kits in 3rd party hands a year before release. Six months before at the latest. Remember, Dance Central was a launch title. Harmonix is a platform agnostic 3rd party.

[ark_ader]

Now that the dev kits are out? What are you talking about? 3rd party dev kit were out prior to launch. No console manufacturer is going to wait until a year after release to distribute dev kits. More likely they had kits in 3rd party hands a year before release. Six months before at the latest. Remember, Dance Central was a launch title. Harmonix is a platform agnostic 3rd party.

The open source kits were out years ago, but the recent SDK for Kinect has been out at least since the beginning of last year in one form or another.  The Corporate version is going to be released, so I am sure we will see more applications that are suited for the office environment.  Besides the next Kinect is much smaller and requires less distance to operate.

I think the 720 will have a model that has Kinect built in and be more like a PVR and a quarter of the size of the current Xbox 360 and run mostly in the Cloud. (IMO).

[Necroticart]

I was referring to the SDK for the next Xbox console. they have been out for awhile now As for support I would not count on it as it would slow sales of their new console. Hence why they never got into the handheld gaming market as it would detract sales away from the console. i would say Microsoft as a company is less of a risk taker putting it's money into only a few semi safe ventures mainly focusing on software with little innovation the windows OS is a good example and Kinect the really only being the first innovative risk they have taken and technically it was still on the safe side considering the 360 install base in the NA and EU territories. 

[shmokes]

I was talking to lilshawn. He said something else about dev kits.

[shmokes]

I think it will have to be a decent title, considering the franchise and the control it's owners have over the products bearing it's name.

I just learned that Kinect Star Wars has a dance mode entitled "Galactic Dance Off". What a great idea.

[HaRuMaN]

I just want to be able to force choke someone...  will it at least let me do that? 

[shmokes]

After seeing the above screenshot I briefly considered force choking myself.

[Malenko]

After seeing the above screenshot I briefly considered force choking myself.

While you beat off to Leia?

[Mikezilla]

After seeing the above screenshot I briefly considered force choking myself.

While you beat off to Leia?

 

[RandyT]

I just learned that Kinect Star Wars has a dance mode entitled "Galactic Dance Off". What a great idea.

If it's an "extra", then what's the harm?  It'll probably help broaden the appeal across a more diverse demographic.

But if it's the only thing that works well, and was thrown in due to that fact, then.....lame.

[shmokes]

Even if it's an extra, I don't think it bodes well for the game. It's hard not to extrapolate from this information the likely direction the developers are taking the game and the audience they're targeting.

[lilshawn]

I think it will have to be a decent title, considering the franchise and the control it's owners have over the products bearing it's name.

I just learned that Kinect Star Wars has a dance mode entitled "Galactic Dance Off". What a great idea.

how does one dance to this?

[RandyT]

Even if it's an extra, I don't think it bodes well for the game. It's hard not to extrapolate from this information the likely direction the developers are taking the game and the audience they're targeting.

I think the "teaser" pretty much lets you know that this is going to be a light-hearted offering.  Looks like they are shooting for fun rather than being all too serious.  The dance mode seems to confirm it, but I guess we won't know until they release more info.

how does one dance to this?

 

[shmokes]

Well . . . okay, Parappa the Rapper was fun. But Jabba the Rapper is probably not an excellent idea for a videogame. Actually, that's a bad example because Jabba the Rapper is an awesome idea for a videogame.

What I mean to say is that Star Wars has absolutely nothing to do with a dancing videogame. No matter how you look at it this is a cash in. Either they're making a dance game and slapping on a nonsensical property. Or they're making a Star Wars game and slapping on a nonsensical dance mode (because apparently dance games are the only games that can be successful on the Kinect).

To say that they're shooting for fun rather than being all too serious is just silly. I suppose the developers of Half Life or Bioshock or Forza are not going for fun. Developers don't have to choose between serious and fun. Maybe what you mean by going for fun is going for casual.

edit: fixed a huge typo

[versapak]

Well . . . okay, Parappa the Rapper was fun. But Jabba the Rapper is probably not an excellent idea for a videogame. Actually, that's a bad example because Jabba the Rapper is an awesome idea for a videogame.

What I mean to say is that Star Wars has absolutely nothing to do with a dancing videogame. No matter how you look at it this is a cash in. Either they're making a dance game and slapping on a nonsensical property. Or they're making a Star Wars game and slapping on a nonsensical dance mode (because apparently dance games are the only games that can be successful on the Kinect).

To say that they're shooting for fun rather than being all too serious is just silly. I suppose the developers of Half Life or Bioshock or Forza are not going for fun. Developers don't have to choose between serious and fun. Maybe what you mean by going for fun is going for casual.

edit: fixed a huge typo

You've seen Star Wars? How does dancing not fit into it? Cantina... Jaba's Barge... Ewok village...

I don't think that there is any doubt that this is another casual fun gimmick game. Anyone looking for more is fooling themselves, because kinect will never be anything more than that.

[Vigo]

You've seen Star Wars? How does dancing not fit into it? Cantina... Jaba's Barge... Ewok village...

Pulp fiction might talk about Quarter Pounders in Paris, 10 dollar milk shakes, eating porkchops, and big kahuna burgers with sprite, but I don't quite think a that means a Pulp Fiction "cooking mama" style game would work. (Although I do admit I would probably end up buying it.)

[shmokes]

+1

Defending the idea to develop a Star Wars themed "Galactic Dance off" is beneath all of us. The franchise has nothing to do with dancing. And aside from the idea being utterly moronic, the thinking behind it is pretty clear. Developer is making a Kinect Star Wars game. Publisher looks at Kinect game sales and sees that Dance Central is the most successful title. Publisher tells developer to copy Dance Central. Developer says, "But Star Wars has nothing to do with dancing." Publisher says, "Yes it does. Dancing games are selling."

Stupid

[versapak]

Obviously the whole game is not going to be a dancing game.

If it was, then it would indeed be all fail, but dancing does have its place in an overall kinect star wars game. If you were expecting hard core gaming from anything on Kinect, then you are living in a fantasy land. Kinect will never be anything but novelty games, because deeper games just don't lend themselves to the format, and gamers that want those deeper games are usually the people not very interested in the Kinect to begin with.

[EDIT]

I do think a deeper game like Heavy Rain could be pretty damn good on Kinect, , so I guess I can't generalize that deeper games wouldn't work at all, but chances are we won't ever see them. The Kinect and all motion controls have created their niche in casual easy to approach games, and that is what people see. Devs or consumers alike.

[shmokes]

I dunno, I think that's nonsense. Temple of Doom starts out with a dance scene in a night club. That wouldn't make an Indiana Jones International Dance off make sense as a game.

What I'm saying is that there is a Star Wars cannon. And even in its most negative light, a galactic dance off does not jive with it. The idea is retarded. It makes absolutely no sense and puts all of the characters in the room doing things that they would not do in real life (in their universe). I mean, Jesus, look at the picture below.

The only way this makes sense is what I said: This is a Kinect game. Dance Central is the most successful Kinect Game. Therefore this game must have dancing in it.

Which is just wrongheaded in so many ways.

[lilshawn]

how does one dance to this?

play this^^^^ then play thisVVVVVV and mute it

..... hilarity ensues.



BTW you are absolutely right! 

[Vigo]

I dunno, I think that's nonsense. Temple of Doom starts out with a dance scene in a night club. That wouldn't make an Indiana Jones International Dance off make sense as a game.

How else will I ever find out whether Mola Ram is better at the Electric slide than the grail guardian knight? Or if Sallah can do the Macarena better than shortround? I also hear that Henry Jones Sr. is pretty good at disco, but need to see it for myself.

[shmokes]

Well, when put in reasonable terms like that I have no choice but to concede.

[versapak]

A Star Wars video game doesn't have to be 100% about canon. I'm not saying I want a Star Wars dance game, but I have no problem with a side step in a game for a little dancing fun.

I don't expect this Star Wars Kinect game to actually be any good at all to begin with, but I doubt any dancing section will really be the problem.

[shmokes]

I don't expect this Star Wars Kinect game to actually be any good at all to begin with, but I doubt any dancing section will really be the problem.

Perhaps not. But, as I said earlier, the feature's inclusion in the game is likely indicative of the overall direction the developer is taking the game and the audience they're targeting. Like, Red Dead Redemption isn't going to have a Town Dance Off mode. Not that a dance mode would take away from the main game. It's just not the type of thing you tack onto a game like that.

Having a Galactic Dance Mode doesn't say anything directly about the rest of the game. But it still probably says a helluva lot about it.

[shmokes]

59 so far on Metacritic

[TheChairmanH2K]

i love my kinect and play it at least once a day.  ive got about 8 games for it and yes dance central 2 is one of them because its fun and something my gf and i can play together.  and no offense but schmokes youre kind of a wet blanket man.  its a video game peripheral, lighten up.  youre right, the next Shadow of the Colossus probably wont be a kinect game but in all seriousness who cares?  if depth is what youre searching for im thinking a video game console is not the place, kinect or not.  tolstoy or joyce would better serve you 

[shmokes]

None taken. When I'm talking about depth in videogames, I'm not talking about something that will make you cry or fundamentally change the way you view the world (not that those goals are out of reach for games). I think Grand Theft Auto is a series of extraordinary depth. Same goes for the Super Mario series throughout the years.

I suppose I am a wet blanket wrt Kinect. I'm okay with that. I think it's pretty lame.

[Mikezilla]

Have you played one yet? I also believe you put too much stock in Metacritic and other websites like that i.e rotten tomatoes etc. Most of the time the things those sites rate are way cooler than what metacritic says. Its probably a conspiracy anyway. People probably pay critics to give them a good/bad rating to rub out the competetion. They have been doing that in movies for years.

[shmokes]

Yes, I've played a few games. They all sucked. I haven't, unfortunately, played Dance Central, but I have no doubt that it is fun.

The conspiracy doesn't make sense because those sites rate some games from Ubisoft very poorly and some very highly. Same goes for EA, Activision, Take 2, etc. Why would those companies only pay journalists to rate some of their games good (generally games that the public also agrees are good)?