Why do all game sites keep gushing over Kinect's voice commands?

[Malenko]

You didn't mention RC Pro AM I did Also , I own Killer Instinct 1 and 2 dedicated cabs.

I didnt mention Left Field. I know they made the Slam And Jam games ( closest thing to Run and Gun on the home consoles) but I looked it up and Nintendo used to own part of them, but they bought back the stake and are 3rd party.

As for RARE, they released an RC Pro AM (Championship Pro-AM) game for genesis. After 1992 they started released more games for other systems (mostly battle toads on everything with a CPU and a screen). So yes, NES ERA RARE was a nintendo first party; but after that (especially the GameCube/Wii eras) not so much. Even though now they are wholly owned by Microsoft Game Studios they still develop for the DS. Im guess because M$ lacks a handheld.



tell me that's not RC Pro-AM,lol

N-Space was bought by nintendo before giest, I'll give ya that one. They only made nintendo exclusive games prior to being bought, I didnt even know nintendo bought them until this thread. I thought they just did nintendo exclusives like they always did.

I didnt know Treasure co-devved S&P with Nintendo; but I'll be honest Im not big into rail shooters (panzer dragoon being the exception) but that game doesnt look bad, maybe I'll get it for my VC.

Intelligent Systems....well yeah they too are first party, but with that one I was stressing they only make fire emblem and the series, in my eyes, is terrible.

I guess I was alone in not liking either Super Mario Galaxy game. I didnt like Super Mario Sunshine either. But I <3 Super Mario World and Super Mario 3

[dre-w]

 Even if it was just user scores, why would Wii owners be happier about their Wii games than 360 or PS3 owners would be about the games on their respective platforms.

Because it's like eating gruel for breakfast for 3 months and one day getting a bowl of Cap'n Crunch.  Chances are, you'd think that the Cap'n Crunch is the "food of the gods", when really, it's still just Cap'n Crunch.

Are you saying that PS3 and 360 games are the gruel for 3 months..?  Then a new Wii game comes out like Cap'n Crunch..  I thought you were defending ms.. idk you lost me.  If you're talking about Wii games being gruel I still don't see how that answered the question, being that I could just give your answer for 360 games as well..

[shmokes]

He's saying that almost everything released for the Wii is gruel, so when a mediocre game comes out, Wii owners think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.  It's sort of absurd, but at least that's consistent with the position you thought he was taking.

[dre-w]

That's what I figured.. it was just such a ridiculous answer I was pointing out that I could say the same about any other platform.  Sure the Wii has a lot more shovelware than 360 (probably) ..but that doesn't mean I go and play them all (eat the gruel) until something good (cap'n crunch) comes out for the Wii..  I only play the games I know I would enjoy, just like I do for the PS3 ...and the 360 a friend gave me ..because it RROD 3x and he got tired of sending it back and forth to MS so he just bought the new "better" one and gave me the "fixed" one.. which IMO is probably why their console sales are still on the rise 

[shmokes]

Well, and it is a good system that is on par with the PS3 in terms of hardware capabilities and has a far better online component.  And it manages to be less expensive to boot.  That probably helps.

[amendonz]

and the online hasn't been hacked up to buggery in the last couple weeks,want to play against people with god mode in an online shooter anybody? didn't think so.

[shmokes]

At least that's not a permanent problem.  It applies to Modern Warfare, but Black Ops (and presumably any future game) is unaffected.  But anyway, the pros of having a system hacked wide open by the hacker community far outweigh the cons (for the consumer).  The first Xbox was one of the best consoles I've ever owned thanks to the homebrew community.

[dre-w]

Well, and it is a good system that is on par with the PS3 in terms of hardware capabilities and has a far better online component.  And it manages to be less expensive to boot.  That probably helps.

Yehhhhh buutt... did you happen to read that topic "Microsoft SUCK ROD" in this consoles section..  only the second post in the thread.. the very first line he says......  it's pretty textbook example.  "oh well consoles don't last, just go buy the new one bundled with Kinect"  .....I wonder how many 360 users bought the new one just because of this

[shmokes]

I wonder how many 360 users bought the new one just because of this

Probably not very many in the whole scheme of things.  Certainly not enough to account for the kind of sales the 360 has right now.  Don't get me wrong, the early model had a way higher failure rate than it should have.  But that's not why it's selling well.

[Mikezilla]

I was thinking of getting a new 360 just for the wireless, and the HD support. My old one doesnt have HDMI inputs. But, I just got a PS3 so Im probably not going to touch the 360 for awhile.

Just ordered Demon Souls btw. Hopefully it gets here soon! 

[shmokes]

Just ordered Demon Souls btw. Hopefully it gets here soon! 

You should have just bought it on the cheap from pinballjim.   

[Mikezilla]

I wasnt even aware you bought it. Did you not like it?

[Dartful Dodger]

I'm going to go against my better instincts and agree with shmokes.

I'm a PS3 owner so maybe it's easier for me to see the truth since the Move was much more underwhelming than the Kinects. Both add-ons are too little too late.

Nintendo is about to release a 3d hand held and they've got a Wii2 with God knows what features in the works, so while Sony and MS are trying to keep their consoles alive on Wii scraps, Nintendo will be feasting on another untouched market.

[shmokes]

Wow.  I've been going on about how dismal Kinect's software lineup was doomed to be, but it only just now occurred to me to actually look at what is definitely in the pipeline, and it is even worse than I expected.

There are apparently only 20 unreleased games currently announced.  3 have firm release dates, 3 have release windows, the rest are TBA.  Comically almost every game on the list that sounds like it could have any chance of being remotely interesting (there are only a few) is being published by Microsoft, so at least Randy's right inasmuch as Microsoft apparently has to pay any serious developers to develop for the platform.  


Edit: Just for fun I thought it would check that against the list of games announced for the 3DS, a system that won't be released until the end of February.  More than 100.

[Hoopz]

Wow.  I've been going on about how dismal Kinect's software lineup was doomed to be, but it only just now occurred to me to actually look at what is definitely in the pipeline, and it is even worse than I expected.

There are apparently only 20 unreleased games currently announced.  3 have firm release dates, 3 have release windows, the rest are TBA.  Comically almost every game on the list that sounds like it could have any chance of being remotely interesting (there are only a few) is being published by Microsoft, so at least Randy's right inasmuch as Microsoft apparently has to pay any serious developers to develop for the platform.  


Edit: Just for fun I thought it would check that against the list of games announced for the 3DS, a system that won't be released until the end of February.  More than 100.

Whole lot of TBA for announce dates in your list.  I think this is probably a more accurate reflection on what will be available:

Wondering what games the Nintendo 3DS will launch with in March? Considering the handheld’s hefty $250 price tag, it’s going to have to launch with some pretty good stuff in order for people to want to toss out their beloved DS Lite/DSi/DSi XLs.

The good news is that the release list is looking relatively strong at the moment, with 30+ titles promised for the “launch window” (March 27 – the E3 Expo June). Not all of those will necessarily launch on day one though. Also, this list does not include Virtual Console titles, though we know some (like the GameBoy’s Super Mario Land will be available).

First-Party:

    * Pilotwings Resort
    * nintendogs + cats
    * Steel Diver
    * The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D
    * Star Fox 64 3D
    * Kid Icarus: Uprising
    * Mario Kart
    * Animal Crossing
    * Paper Mario

Third-Party:

    * Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor Overclocked (Atlus)
    * Super Street Fighter IV 3D Edition (Capcom)
    * Resident Evil: The Mercenaries 3D (Capcom)
    * Madden NFL Football (EA SPORTS)
    * The Sims 3 (Electronic Arts)
    * Pro Evolution Soccer 2011 3D (Konami)
    * LEGO Star Wars III: The Clone Wars (LucasArts)
    * Ridge Racer 3D (Namco Bandai Games America)
    * Dual Pen Sports (Namco Bandai Games America)
    * Super Monkey Ball 3D (Sega)
    * Thor: God of Thunder (Sega)
    * CRUSH 3D (Sega)
    * BUST-A-MOVE UNIVERSE (Square Enix)
    * Samurai Warriors Chronicles (Tecmo Koei America)
    * Dead or Alive Dimensions (Tecmo Koei America)
    * Asphalt 3D (Ubisoft)
    * Tom Clancy’s Ghost Recon Shadow Wars (Ubisoft)
    * Combat of Giants: Dinosaurs 3D (Ubisoft)
    * Tom Clancy’s Splinter Cell 3D (Ubisoft)
    * Rayman 3D (Ubisoft)
    * Rabbids Travel in Time (Ubisoft)

That makes for 9 games from Nintendo and 21 from third-party developers, not including any downloadable titles. Again, those are all in the “launch window”.

Some other titles we’ve learned about are:

    * DECA SPORTS EXTREME (Hudson) – Sumer 2011
    * Bomberman (Hudson) – Fall 2011
    * Nikoli’s Pencil Puzzle (Hudson) – Fall 2011
    * Pet Zombies in 3D (Majesco) – Fall 2011
    * Face Kart: Photo Finish (Majesco) – Fall 2011

That’s everything for now! Hopefully we’ll learn more about the launch dates within the window, so we’ll know for sure which games will actually be available on the 3DS’ March 27th release date.

Source:  http://www.geek.com/articles/games/nintendo-3ds-launch-titles-for-north-america-20110120/

[shmokes]

That list is launch window games.  It's just what is planned to be available in the first 1.5 months of the DS launch.  Why would I compare that list against a list of every game currently announced for Kinect?  There are a ton of 3DS games in serious development that will reach the market, but aren't launch titles.

Anyway, 14 of 20 games on the Kinect list are TBA.  Why would TBA disqualify a 3DS dev but not a Kinect dev?

[DJ_Izumi]

Why in the hell are we comparing the number of to be released titles of a full handheld console agianst what's an accessory for a home console?

Kinect is an accessory and no one expects the entire user base to get one.  So this is a pointless discussion.

[shmokes]

Why in the hell are we comparing the number of to be released titles of a full handheld console agianst what's an accessory for a home console?

Kinect is an accessory and no one expects the entire user base to get one.  So this is a pointless discussion.

Because we are discussing the chances of it's success, which depend on game development, same as a console.

[amendonz]

3ds will me HUGE

[Dartful Dodger]

Kinect will come to PCs, says Microsoft CEO

Now that Kinects will be an option for me, I might be changing my opinion about it.

[RandyT]

Kinect will come to PCs, says Microsoft CEO

Now that Kinects will be an option for me, I might be changing my opinion about it.

It always was.  It's USB, after all.  If you mean, "official MS OS support features", then that should have been expected.

There are apparently only 20 unreleased games currently announced.

You should pay more attention to what is in the links you post to support your conclusions .  The very first line from that wiki is "This is an incomplete list..."

Comically almost every game on the list that sounds like it could have any chance of being remotely interesting (there are only a few) is being published by Microsoft, so at least Randy's right inasmuch as Microsoft apparently has to pay any serious developers to develop for the platform.  

I don't know how you are coming to that conclusion.  Fanboy logic, I guess.  What's more accurate would be to state that I was correct in my assertion that MS, having spent a great deal more time with the hardware, has learned how to make more interesting games with the functionality of the Kinect as a component.  Or that MS does indeed have the resources and know-how to support the hardware at the same level that you think only Nintendo can.

As for the 3DS, I think time will tell.  There will always be fans of Nintendo, who will buy the latest handheld, even if the only difference is a little larger, or little brighter screen.  A mediocre 3D effect will be more than enough to fuel sales to those folks.  Lots of parents of little kids to sell to as well.  My 5 and 6 year old niece and nephew love their DS, and it wouldn't surprise me if they think the 3D component is cool.  Not hard to impress at that age.

On the other hand, my 23 year old daughter, who received a DS for Christmas, had a more mixed take on it.  She enjoyed it until the novelty wore off and she stopped using it because she felt like everything about it was aimed at kids (became disenfranchised).  Nintendo will have a hard time getting traction in the market segment she is part of, and a 3D gimmick won't help that.  But there are enough "fish" in the "Nintendo Barrel" that it probably won't matter.  I don't, however, expect every DS owner to chuck their current unit in the trash in favor of it, any more than TV owners have chucked their current flat panel sets in favor of the new 3D capable ones.  The TV market has showed not only poor adoption of 3D, but downright rejection of it.  It will be interesting to see if that's a trend that carries over to the 3DS.

[shmokes]

You should pay more attention to what is in the links you post to support your conclusions .  The very first line from that wiki is "This is an incomplete list..."

It's Wikipedia.  Both lists are incomplete.  What are you saying, that someone accidentally left 80+ games off the Kinect list?  That publishers are dumping money into this platform that they believe will be an enormous success, but they don't want to build hype for the games or let their stockholders know?

My point about MS publishing almost everything compelling is that 3rd party developers are not interested.

[RandyT]

My point about MS publishing almost everything compelling is that 3rd party developers are not interested.

Or, that they are not interested in tipping their hands to other developers yet.  They are businesses, after all.

[shmokes]

So it's good business to tip your hand with 3ds development, but not with Kinect development? 

[RandyT]

So it's good business to tip your hand with 3ds development, but not with Kinect development? 

No, it's good to wait until the time is right.  And honestly, the two are as far apart as night and day when it comes to ideas which will differentiate and ultimately lead to the success of a game.  The Kinect is a control scheme, while the 3DS is a display gimmick.  More to keep "close to the vest" with the Kinect development, some of which will likely be patentable.

[shmokes]

The Kinect is a control scheme, while the 3DS is a display gimmick. 

That's funny.  I thought the Kinect was a control gimmick, while the 3DS was a display scheme.  Live and learn, I guess.

[RandyT]

The Kinect is a control scheme, while the 3DS is a display gimmick. 

That's funny.  I thought the Kinect was a control gimmick, while the 3DS was a display scheme.  Live and learn, I guess.

Really?  So how exactly is that 3D display going to change the manner in which a game is played?  Remember, you are talking to someone who spent about 7 years in the 3D display business and has their name on 3 patents related to it.

[shmokes]

Are you sure you know the definitions of "scheme" and "gimmick"?  I mean, clearly you know that one is a pejorative and the other isn't . . .

[RandyT]

Are you sure you know the definitions of "scheme" and "gimmick"?  I mean, clearly you know that one is a pejorative and the other isn't . . .

Clearly, it can be taken that way, but you are incorrect in your assertion that it is implicit to the word.  You can answer the question any time though.

[shmokes]

Well . . . the problem with answering the question is that I do think that the 3D in the 3ds is a gimmick, though I've never seen one nor even read much about them.  My point was that labeling one a gimmick and the other a scheme doesn't make it so.  And changing the manner in which a game is played (something that 3D can, of course, do by the way) does not exempt a technology from being gimmicky.

[RandyT]

Well . . . the problem with answering the question is that I do think that the 3D in the 3ds is a gimmick, though I've never seen one nor even read much about them.  My point was that labeling one a gimmick and the other a scheme doesn't make it so.  And changing the manner in which a game is played (something that 3D can, of course, do by the way) does not exempt a technology from being gimmicky.

3D can change the way a game is played, but the burning question is whether a particular 3D technology implementation is capable of that feat.  And I will agree with your statements, however, a very good example of how a game is not "gimmicky" is one like Dance Central or fitness games which rely on the ability to recognize the position or movement of your body.  Controlling games like that through any other means would actually be "gimmicky", and I guess I am asking for an example in 3D that the 3DS might actually be able to accomplish, that was comparable in practical use.

[shmokes]

But we're not talking about the 3ds, so I'm not that inclined to provide your answer.  We both agree that the 3D implementation will not be very compelling, and may be utter crap.

And once again, while the Kinect has serious hardware shortcomings preventing it from being very versatile, IMO, I'm sure you know that my primary reasons for thinking it will be a failure are market related.  Comparing the list of Kinect games in development to the list of 3ds games in development was not an endorsement of the quality of the 3ds.  It was simply illustrating how lackluster Kinect's horizons appear to be.  The Xbox 360 will be taking arthritis meds and wearing adult undergarments by the time developers have a chance to do anything serious with it, even if they were inclined to.

[Dartful Dodger]

The 360 and PS3 are already old consoles. It's time for a new system.

[Mikezilla]

They say that the Xbox has a life until at least 2015. Sony hasnt commented about it. Frankly, I like that there arent any new systems out. I hate shelling out all kinds of money every 5 or so years for a new system, especially since the price tag keeps going up. I hope these systems last as long as they can. The only company I see coming out with a new system is Nintendo, but they havent even announced anything, well, except for the 3DS but Im not getting one of those, and I wouldnt really count it as a "new system" how you mean it DD.

[RandyT]

Not to mention that as long as any system is in a growth phase, and it can still play games people want to play, it still has plenty of life left in it.  They are still producing the PS2!  I wouldn't even think about seeing a next generation until they turn off the presses for the one prior to this one.

We are also still seeing games which push the envelope, which means that there is still untapped potential in the units.  History has shown that until this has been exhausted, and most of the games being released are taking advantage of all the machines have to offer, they won't be retired.

No, this current generation is well into the "good enough" zone for this time period, just as the PS1 was for it's time, that you can expect it to be the focus for several more years.

[RandyT]

No, this current generation is well into the "good enough" zone for this time period, just as the PS1 was for it's time, that you can expect it to be the focus for several more years.

 

The sales numbers don't lie.  You are not the majority of the market, and you wouldn't buy a next gen system anyway until you could get a broke-ass one on ebay for $200 

[Mikezilla]

Not to mention that as long as any system is in a growth phase, and it can still play games people want to play, it still has plenty of life left in it.  They are still producing the PS2!  I wouldn't even think about seeing a next generation until they turn off the presses for the one prior to this one.

We are also still seeing games which push the envelope, which means that there is still untapped potential in the units.  History has shown that until this has been exhausted, and most of the games being released are taking advantage of all the machines have to offer, they won't be retired.

No, this current generation is well into the "good enough" zone for this time period, just as the PS1 was for it's time, that you can expect it to be the focus for several more years.

good cause I want to keep using my new ps3 damn it. Wow, I did not know that they are still making ps2's. Thats crazy.

[shmokes]

Randy, the picture you're painting is appealing, don't get me wrong.  But there are more considerations than just how successful your current system is.  Sony may still be producing the PS2, but it's not seriously supported and, of course, the PS3 has been Sony's (and every 3rd party's) focus for years.

When Sony and Nintendo have new consoles on the market Microsoft can't just sit on its hands and say, "What?  The 360 still has life left in it."  Microsoft can't compete against Sony's next machine if Microsoft's first gen titles are going up against 2nd and 3rd gen Sony titles on a machine that already has a 30 or 40 million strong install base thanks to it's 2-3 year head start.  The successor to the 360 will come out within a year of the PS4 (including the very likely scenario that it will beat the PS4 to market) regardless of how successful the 360 is at the time.

The 360 will presumably stay on the market for a while after Xbox 3 comes out, but you know as well as anyone that software development will dry up shortly thereafter and very soon all you will see of new releases are budget shovelware.  All the AAA development dollars will go to the new systems.

[RandyT]

When Sony and Nintendo have new consoles on the market Microsoft can't just sit on its hands and say, "What?  The 360 still has life left in it."  Microsoft can't compete against Sony's next machine if Microsoft's first gen titles are going up against 2nd and 3rd gen Sony titles on a machine that already has a 30 or 40 million strong install base thanks to it's 2-3 year head start.  The successor to the 360 will come out within a year of the PS4 (including the very likely scenario that it will beat the PS4 to market) regardless of how successful the 360 is at the time.

The 360 will presumably stay on the market for a while after Xbox 3 comes out, but you know as well as anyone that software development will dry up shortly thereafter and very soon all you will see of new releases are budget shovelware.  All the AAA development dollars will go to the new systems.

I agree, but the discussion really isn't about "if", but about "when".  As long as the 360 is "on top" (whatever that means nowadays) they really can take their time.  There is no need to rush to market with a system that isn't quite ready (this is currently Nintendo's possible course of action).  Sony also doesn't seem to be in a hurry.  There is still great untapped potential in the PS3, and they are nowhere near market saturation with the unit.  The damn thing is still $300!  The pricing alone, and the fact that Sony hasn't yet shrunk it down to PSONE proportions, should tell you that they are also in no hurry to retire the unit.  

Then there are the socio-economic reasons to keep the current generation going.  How many folks in the current economic environment are in the position to pony up $400 for a state-of-the-art game console?  One of the major adoption hurdles for the PS3 has always been the cost of entry, and it's still a problem for it today.  It's easier for someone to come up with $40 for a game on a system that most are still content with (remember, it's the games, not the eye-candy and there's no shortage of the latter) than 10x that amount to start playing one.

Of course, all of the big three are working on the next generation hardware, even if it's only in the planning stages.  But for them to go too far, too soon, would be for them to put out a system that was obsolete upon release.  So it makes sense for them not to do anything that they can't reverse, or won't allow them to change course without it costing them a fortune, until it was very much required.  And that isn't as long as the sales are up and the competition isn't pressuring them.  The only wild card is Nintendo, and if they were to rock the gaming world with something new, it could accelerate the plans of the other two.  But honestly, I think that's a million to one shot.

[Mikezilla]

 There is no need to rush to market with a system that isn't quite ready (this is currently Nintendo's possible course of action).  Sony also doesn't seem to be in a hurry.  There is still great untapped potential in the PS3, and they are nowhere near market saturation with the unit.

I had no idea you were present in Microsoft and Sony board meetings.   

Your thinking about 'how is a game system going to do in a recession' is completely backwards, too.  We're not talking about 5 carat diamond rings and Caribbean vacations.  We're talking one-time $500 purchases that continue to provide entertainment long after you've paid them off.  There's plenty of textbooks you can read on this subject provided you're not too busy writing up more hologram patents.

Randy does have a point though. The cost is a big factor. I would rather have a new system come out 3 years from now and have it be 300 bucks than have it come out now and be 500. The older I get, the harder it is for me to justify spending that much money on a console. My sister got me a PS3 for Christmas, and 300 bucks was still a whopper of a gift. At launch werent the damn things 600 bucks?! Thats freakin outlandish.