staining oak

[ragnar]

So, I bought my wood and stain and am starting work tomorrow.  Staining will not happen for a while.  My question though is in regards to conditioner.  Should I bother with it?  I figure that oak is a very hard wood and that it will take the stain evenly.

Also, I am using a red stain on it.  And I want to make it as deep as possible so i am doing several coats.  Is conditioner something that would limit the amount of stain that is absorbed?

[javeryh]

I'd definitely use the conditioner or you risk a very splotchy finish.  It will not limit the amount of stain the wood takes and multiple thin coats of stain will eventually get you to your desired color.  It takes like 10 minutes to apply and you can start staining within 2 hours. 

[ragnar]

I did a sample today.  One with conditioner and one without.  The one without conditioner stained nicely.

I might try a second coat on each piece tomorrow an see how that goes.

I definitely like the color I got out of the noncondtioned wood though.

The conditioner I was using only required that I apply it, then I immediately add stain.  Wait 3 minutes and wipe.


The instructions o nthe conditioner did not talk about second coats.  Should I be applying conditioner with each coat?

[drventure]

You wouldn't normally use a conditioner between stain coats. Just once should be enough.

On Oak, I've never found much of a need for conditioner. Pine, aspen, and softwoods, definitely, though. But hey, it shouldn't hurt either. You just might get a slightly different finish.

To get a deep red, you'll likely need several stain passes. Even, the times I've try to get a reddish mahogany  color out of oak, it didn't turn out as deep as I wanted. Still nice, but not quite right.

One possibility is to pick up some veneer if you're looking for a specific finish. You can get this self adhesive veneer now that works really easily and stains very nice. Check Rockler or other fine wood shops (home depot and lowes won't carry that stuff<g>)

[ragnar]

I took some scrap.

Did 5 tests total:

1) 1 coat stain
2) 2 coats stain
3) 1 coat stain w/conditioner
4) 1 coat stain w/conditioner following by 1 coat stain w/conditioner
5) 1 coat stain w/conditioner following by 1 coat stain w/o conditioner

1) Made a nice dark red stain
2) the second coat did not do much, darker yes but almost unnoticeable
3) much lighter than (1)
4, 5) The conditioner on the second coat did not do anything really.   In both cases, te wood did get darker but no where as near as dark as in 1,2.

So, I'm probably doing 2 coats of stain.  I'mm determine if a 3rd coat is needed after  Isee what I get out of 2.  I wish it were darker but I don't think I can get much darker witout changing stains to something darker that is not red.  And being on a budget, the current color is more than acceptable.

PS: I have hte sides cut and cleats installed.  I hope to take some snaps soon and get the official project thread started in thenext few days.  I'm waiting on the slot cutting router bit to prep for t-molding.  Then the stain goes on!

[drventure]

Cool. It's always good to test to be sure. Things can often depend on the wood, humidity, etc.

But you're results echo mine exactly, at least on oak. I found that starting with red oak yielded a little darker/redder color than White oak.

If you're staining pine, definitely use a conditioner (unless you're shooting for that blotchy look, which, in some cases might be appropriate).

To me, it seemed when I put down a second coat of stain, the second coat kind of "melted" the first coat, and the color sometimes would even get +lighter+


I did experiment with literally "painting" a coat of stain on, really heavy, then letting it dry completely without wiping it off at all. I got the darkest color out of it and believe it or not, it looked pretty good once I'd hit it with some very fine steel wool, removed the dust and clear coated it. Yeah, technically not how you're supposed to apply stain, but I got the color I needed. Just let it dry completely, like for a week or so.

[ragnar]

I was doing an apply, a 3 minute wait then a wipe.  I might up the wait to 5 or 6 minutes to get it darker.  At this point though, that is just a detail.

[ragnar]

So, I stained my sides today.  The thing is, it did not get nearly as dark as the sample I did which were from the exact same piece of plywood.  So, now i am very confused.

I did not use conditioner, but the darkness of the final product looks like conditioner was used when i compare the result to the two samples I did.  So now I am very confused.

Tomorrow I will be going a second coat of stain and letting it sit longer before wiping.  Maybe 15 or 20 minutes.

Now my next question.  When to apply polyurethane?  I know that the stained wood needs to be dry.  Does that just mean if i touch it, it does not feel wet?  Or should I take a rag and do a wipe test.  How long does one typically have to wait?  A day?  2 days?  It's humid and about 80 degrees (26.6 degrees C) where I am.

As an aside, the slot cutting for the T-molding was a snap.

[drventure]

If it's that humid, I'd give it at least 2-3 days to dry completely.

If you don't, the poly will lift the stain and things will come out inky looking (I know that from bad experience  )

If you haven't checked it out, I've found that the "Wipe on" poly works amazingly well, and is super easy to apply. Just wipe on with an clean rag.

[ragnar]

If it's that humid, I'd give it at least 2-3 days to dry completely.

If you don't, the poly will lift the stain and things will come out inky looking (I know that from bad experience  )

If you haven't checked it out, I've found that the "Wipe on" poly works amazingly well, and is super easy to apply. Just wipe on with an clean rag.

I'm going the old school poly route.

The workshop I am using (my father in laws) has ceiling fans.  I'll turn those on later.  Do I have to wait for things to dry prior to applying a second coat of stain?