Why TF would anybody anywhere ever buy a used game from Gamestop?

[Ginsu Victim]

Vespa...

Depending on the conversation (read: argument), I tend to do the same thing as you. I agree it allows you to address individual points.

Ok, now we've agreed on something. It's a start.

[VespaGuy]

As with many forum conversations the devil is in the definition. You say you own the game and you're right, because you define "the game" as the disc and it's packaging. I say you don't own the game and I'm correct . . . blah blah I can't even read beyond this point.

Oh shut up.  Yeah . . . I'm sure you thought that I meant that going to Gamestop and paying $60 for God of War transferred ownership of the entire IP. 

You certainly wouldn't be the first.  Believe it or not, there are plenty of people who don't understand IP at all and assume that a game that they purchase (or firmware, for that matter) is theirs to do whatever they please without any repercussions.  I get it. You aren't one of them.

[Ginsu Victim]

Believe it or not, there are plenty of people who don't understand IP at all and assume that a game that they purchase (or firmware, for that matter) is theirs to do whatever they please without any repercussions.

Is it that they don't know, or the more likely scenario, that they don't care?

I know it's both, but I think the latter happens more.

[VespaGuy]

No it isn't and no you don't. You own the physical media the game is on, and you own a license to play the game. Sorry, but you don't own the game.  You are "buying" the license, not the game.  The First-Sale Doctrine protects you [in the situations you described]. However, you still have limitations to what you can and can't do with a video game or a CD because you do not own them. Go ahead and make copies of the music or video games "you own" and sell them and see what happens...
Again, you are purchasing the license to use a certain content and a physical medium to transfer the content. Despite your unfounded claims otherwise, You do not own the game.

[...] You own the disc and every single 1 and 0 on that disc.[...]

Shmokes, I guess this is where most people get foggy about IP and ownership. And usually when I hear a quote like yours, it's followed by "so I can do whatever I want with it." I'm pretty sure we're on the same page. But just to be certain...

Lets say you purchase a video game. The game contains 20 levels of exciting ninja vs. pirate battling action. You beat the game and put it on your shelf to collect dust. You think about selling it, but read that the publisher is releasing 5 more exciting levels! You find out online that it costs $15 for the extra levels, but you read the fine print to discover that the DLC actually exists on your disc! The only thing you are downloading is a key that unlocks that content. Here's where the IP and ownership issues come into play.

Even though you technically own all of those ones and zeros for the extra content that are on the disc, you do not own the license to play them until you pay the additional $15. You own the disc (and the 1s and 0s) but the creator still retains control.

On this we agree?

[hypernova]

Vespa...

Depending on the conversation (read: argument), I tend to do the same thing as you. I agree it allows you to address individual points.

Ok, now we've agreed on something. It's a start.

I've been chastised for the same thing...

[shmokes]

I know it's both, but I think the latter happens more.

It most certainly is not both.  It just isn't.  You're probably talking about one in ten thousand who think that purchasing a videogame or book or CD gives you the legal right to copy said material and sell it.  One in ten thousand is generous.  This is a ginormous meaningless digression.

[Ginsu Victim]

So you're saying there aren't stupid people out there who think it's theirs to do with as they wish? I'm talking about a very small minority, but you can't say 100% they don't exist.

[shmokes]

Even though you technically own all of those ones and zeros for the extra content that are on the disc, you do not own the license to play them until you pay the additional $15. You own the disc (and the 1s and 0s) but the creator still retains control.

On this we agree?

I'll start out by pointing out that this has nothing to do with the original conversation.  To answer your question, I don't know for sure.  Clearly you own the material, in as much as you own the right to unlock it.  Whether you could circumvent the protections to access the content for free . . . I dunno if that's ever been answered, but I don't think it's an open and closed case.  Obviously a person couldn't sell you a house, intending to tell you later that hidden in the wall was a valuable treasure but you'd have to pay him more for him to tell you where it is.  I mean . . . he could do this, of course, but if you opened the wall yourself and found it, it's yours.  The DMCA gives me pause with its prohibitions of circumventing copy protection, but I don't know if they'd consider this copy protection, so I don't know if the DMCA applies.  I mean . . . I don't really know the DMCA at all, frankly.


So, yeah, if the  extra content is on the disc and you manage to access it without paying the company more . . . I don't know.  I tend to think that the customer would end up winning, but that's just my gut talking.  As far as I know that hasn't been answered difinitively, and if it has it may have gone the other way.

God knows Take Two and Rockstar paid out the ass for Hot Coffee, even though you actually had to modify your console, and then modify the software in order to get at it.  If that's all we have to go on I'd tend to consider everything on the disc as owned and available to the consumer, even if the developer/publisher did not intend it to be.

[shmokes]

So you're saying there aren't stupid people out there who think it's theirs to do with as they wish? I'm talking about a very small minority, but you can't say 100% they don't exist.

Well . . . one in ten thousand isn't 100%.  These bombastically stupid people might exist.  But for all intents and purposes they're entirely hypothetical or no older than 14.

[northerngames]

for the OP and what is more sickining is what they bought that $55.00 used game for from another person of the street that just paid the same $60.00 1 week prior.

funcoland, ebgames, and babbage's were all better then gamestop and once they monopilized them all into gamestop it all becam scantless and a joke pretty much.

I have never and will not ever buy a game from gamestop new or used period there the satan of video game stores or video game anything for that matter

even there pre-release code crap is a joke they do that just some some get tricked into paying top dollar for the game at there store while others have them for $10.00-$20.00 less.

[Mikezilla]

Wow. Babbages. Completely forgot they existed. Thank god for good ol CL... Stupid Gamestop. Power to the players ---my bottom---. 

[Ginsu Victim]

I used to love Babbages back in the C64 days.

[danny_galaga]

I'm in Shmokes camp in this regard. I grew up poor, certainly never had any computer games. Now I can afford it, unless something is really, really discounted i prefer to buy stuff new. For that extra 5 bucks, i get to be the one to rip open the cellopane 

[shateredsoul]

Yeah, if it's only 5 bucks I'd buy new.  Othewise I'd wait 3 to 6 months and get it for $20.  I've found that ebay usually has lower used prices.

[northerngames]

on gametz newly released games that become used sell for around $30.00 two weeks after there realeased and good deals can be had there becuse everyone use's ebay and amazon for price comparison's..

them first few weeks though some try to sell them for $3-5 less then what they paid new and just try to beat it as fast as possible and assume the quiker they beat it the more its worth but 2 weeks later everyone wants to sell that new popular game but have to keep lowering there price becuase everybody and there brother has the same game to get rid of during the same time frame.

[Howard_Casto]

I don't support gamestops used gaming department out of principle.  The fact that the buyer doesn't really get much of a deal (this is 100% true btw) is irrelevant.  The fact that gamestop gives the person that traded it in next to nothing for it is.  Gamestop has made a business out of stupid kids that want immediate satisfaction.  It's an evil and endless loop.

Here's how it works:

1.  Consumer buys game for 60 bucks.  Gamestop gets 60 bucks from consumer.
2.  Consumer gets sick of game, trades it into gamestop for a mere 15 bucks.  Gamestop now has 75 bucks from consumer.
3a.  Gamestop sells traded game for 55 bucks.  Gamestop has now made a staggering 115 bucks from a single game!
3b.  Our original consumer takes his 15 bucks credit (which is worthless) and uses it to buy another 60 dollar game.  Gamestop now has grossed 175 bucks from this transaction. 

..... and repeat till infinity. 

There's nothing illegal about this process at all, but it sure seems immoral to me.  Also it's a stupid business practice on their part.  By selling used games, it makes for less sales of new games, which the developers are compensated for, which means developers get less money and thus they can make less games for gamestop to endlessly sell and re-sell.

[Howard_Casto]

Getting back to the quesiton at hand though... typically you can find really cheap NEW games in big box stores and online after the game gets a little old.  Usually the deal is better than gamestops used price.  So to answer your question, I don't have any clue why people buy used games from gamestop. 

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

There's nothing illegal about this process at all, but it sure seems immoral to me.  Also it's a stupid business practice on their part.  By selling used games, it makes for less sales of new games, which the developers are compensated for, which means developers get less money and thus they can make less games for gamestop to endlessly sell and re-sell.

I wonder how much money THIS takes a way from developers as compared to classic software piracy. Yes, at least the software was paid for once per physical copy, however I would imagine that the people buying the used copies, particularly at only $5 from retail, would much more likely be customers of the original product without being tempted by the discount. I suspect that the far greater majority of traditional software pirates would never have purchased the software given the opportunity and ability.

[shmokes]

Here's how it works:

1.  Consumer buys game for 60 bucks.  Gamestop gets 60 bucks from consumer.
2.  Consumer gets sick of game, trades it into gamestop for a mere 15 bucks.  Gamestop now has 75 bucks from consumer.
3a.  Gamestop sells traded game for 55 bucks.  Gamestop has now made a staggering 115 bucks from a single game!
3b.  Our original consumer takes his 15 bucks credit (which is worthless) and uses it to buy another 60 dollar game.  Gamestop now has grossed 175 bucks from this transaction. 

I think step 2 is a little bit backwards.

[Malenko]

1.  Consumer buys game for 60 bucks.  Gamestop gets 60 bucks from consumer.

Wow, gamestop doesnt have to pay any money out of pocket to stock new games? 100% profit and they'll never go out of business.

[Ginsu Victim]

I think step 2 is a little bit backwards.

Yeah, I noticed that right off.

[Ginsu Victim]

I don't have any clue why people buy used games from gamestop. 

I bought Metroid Prime for $3.99. I bought Pinball Hame of Fame: The Williams Collection for xbox360 for $4.99.

If you're not after the newest stuff, you can get some good buys.

The whole $55 vs $60 thing.....I don't get why anyone would buy used at that price (but this already been discussed to death...)

[Mikezilla]

I love Metroid Prime. I just got the trilogy for free on the wii, stoked to play em, but Other M came out soo....I dont know. Im in game debt...

[shateredsoul]

gamestop doesn't make 60 (or 50 for wii) on the initial sale. Selling the used game on the other hand is all profit.

[Malenko]

gamestop doesn't make 60 (or 50 for wii) on the initial sale. Selling the used game on the other hand is all profit.

just an effort to get my post count up, its not all profit. you have to deduct the price they paid to get the used copy form the customer first (which isnt much, but its something) and they do have to pay stuff like rent and wages to employees =)

[Howard_Casto]

1.  Consumer buys game for 60 bucks.  Gamestop gets 60 bucks from consumer.

Wow, gamestop doesnt have to pay any money out of pocket to stock new games? 100% profit and they'll never go out of business.

I didn't say they MADE 60 bucks, I said they HAD 60 bucks.  Pay attention!!!

[northerngames]

 I remember funcoland had great deals on used classic's & even collector's like the nes gameboy snes etc. and alway's getting steal's at eb games on used pc games compared to anywhere else.

 Now there is no getting deals on anything in a gamestop once again they are the satan of video games in my opionin and would not mind seeing them go but it will never happen

anyone remember funcolands price sheet / new's paper becket type deal and the checklist your imagination went wild on?

[Mikezilla]

Haha yeah there was a Funcoland down the street from me. Was bummed When gamestop set up shop.  They had all kinds of good deals on NES games, SNES games, everything. The guys were cool there too. The guys at my local gamestop are those elitest nerds that think they are better than everyone, and scoff cause I dont know when the latest games are supposed to come out. Then my GF walks in and all of a sudden they have the urge to shut their mouths. 

I hate everything about that store.

On a side note, why do people feel compelled to try and bargain with you when you sell stuff on Craigslist? Some guy tried to talk me down off a pristine copy of Fallout 3 for 360. 

[Malenko]

I used to work for funcoland when I was in high school. I actually liked that job except the trying to sell cleaning kits to everyone.

[Ginsu Victim]

Better than being hounded about reserving games.

[DJ_Izumi]

The question here has been answered.  Why buy used?  It's cheaper.

There's a more important question: Who would SELL used games to EB Games?

I remember when Smash Brothers Brawl came out.  We had preordered a copy to use at a tourny and give away as a prize.  Some kids were at the EB When I went to pick up my copy and they were trading in their old games to get credit for it.  Behind the kids was their dad with this silent 'I paid $60 for those!!!' as the clerk priced the games trade in values between $1-$5 each.  (They were mostly old Gamecube and PS2 games)

[northerngames]

I used to work for funcoland when I was in high school. I actually liked that job except the trying to sell cleaning kits to everyone.

I actually typed up and then deleted a long childhood rant a couple weeks ago about Funcoland and those damned cleaning kits. 

But, in short:

Basically, no matter what your gaming habits, you needed a cleaning kit!

And more than once I was handed a cartridge with a filthy edge connector from that place!

And the price was the same, even if you didn't get a box or manual! (at least Gamestop will sometimes mark them down a little)


I always wondered if Target was somehow involved with Funcoland.  I'm not sure I ever saw one that wasn't next door to a Target.... 

hmm.. you may be onto something becuase the one I speak of was exactly right next store to a target 

[shmokes]

On a side note, why do people feel compelled to try and bargain with you when you sell stuff on Craigslist? Some guy tried to talk me down off a pristine copy of Fallout 3 for 360. 

This strikes me as perfectly normal behavior.

[Ginsu Victim]

That's the best thing about Craigslist. If you don't haggle, why bother?

[DJ_Izumi]

On a side note, why do people feel compelled to try and bargain with you when you sell stuff on Craigslist? Some guy tried to talk me down off a pristine copy of Fallout 3 for 360. 

You would be stupid to NOT try and haggle on Craigslist.

[Mikezilla]

Yeah but I said "firm". That should nullify any type of haggle. And Im a huge guy, so why even bother? 

I say that cause over here why I live there are all kinds of weird CL mishaps involving people getting jumped etc...

[Hoopz]

No it isn't and no you don't. You own the physical media the game is on, and you own a license to play the game. Sorry, but you don't own the game.  You are "buying" the license, not the game.  The First-Sale Doctrine protects you [in the situations you described]. However, you still have limitations to what you can and can't do with a video game or a CD because you do not own them. Go ahead and make copies of the music or video games "you own" and sell them and see what happens...
Again, you are purchasing the license to use a certain content and a physical medium to transfer the content. Despite your unfounded claims otherwise, You do not own the game.

I don't know if you are a lawyer or are pretending to be one, but either way (and especially if you are a lawyer) you should learn to write in paragraphs.  Look at the quoted text to see how easy it is.

Aside from basic usage problems, though, everything you wrote is complete nonsense.  Everyone, including you, knows that when I say that you own the game you buy I don't mean you own the intellectual property.  Don't be absurd.  I said that you can sell the game you own.  And you can.  The fact that you have a license to use the product is a distinction without a difference because the license is irrevocable and freely transferrable forever and ever.  It is no restraint whatsoever on transferrability (such as is the case with the license you get when you rent a game from Blockbuster).  You own the disc and every single 1 and 0 on that disc.  And yes, only the ones on that disc.  But that's all we were ever talking about so coming in and pointing out that I can't make copies of it and then sell them is entirely irrelevant because, and I shouldn't have to point this out to you, but, once you sell it you no longer have any right to possession  You sold that.  That doesn't just apply to games.  It applies to anything involving protected intellectual property.  

At any rate, I didn't say that you can do anything you want with it.  I said you can sell it.  Which we both know is true.  And whether you know it or not, you do own that game--the copy of the game that you purchased.  You own the physical media and you own the right to use it and you own the right to sell it.  And the person who owned it previously can do absolutely nothing to affect those rights in any way.  

You don't own a right to make copies of it and sell those or to keep copies and sell the original.  But who was ever talking about that?

edit: fixed tags

Not to bump a thread that's probably better left to die, but this article certainly puts a new spin on the subject of selling software:

http://gizmodo.com/5635269/guess-what-you-dont-own-that-software-you-bought

I can definitely seeing that go to the Supreme Court to see if it stands.  That'll take a few years though so we'll have to wait and see if software companies do start putting clauses in stating that the software can't be resold. 

[DJ_Izumi]

Yeah but I said "firm". That should nullify any type of haggle. And Im a huge guy, so why even bother? 

I say that cause over here why I live there are all kinds of weird CL mishaps involving people getting jumped etc...

It's always worth to try.  Especially as some people say a price is 'firm' but find their idea of a price suddenly becomes more flexable if there are no takers for the rate they are asking for.

[Mikezilla]

It's always worth to try.  Especially as some people say a price is 'firm' but find their idea of a price suddenly becomes more flexable if there are no takers for the rate they are asking for.

I suppose youre right. I do it sometimes too, but usually at the Swap Meet or places like that, not really on CL. I talked a dude down this weekend 20 bucks off a vacuum cleaner for my girlfriend. She was REALLY grateful hehe...   

[RonnieC312]

I miss Funcoland