possible monitor/power problem in candy cab.

[malelanct]

Hey Guys,

This may actually not be a monitor problem, but i wasn't really sure where to post this.  i'm going to write out all of the information i have, but will be happy to post more information as needed.  because i don't really know whats wrong, i'm going to include everything.

the cabinet is a namco cyberlead candy cab,  the cabinet does/did work previous to this problem, its a JVS cab, but i was running mame in it, using the stock nanao ms28 monitor, and power supply in the cab.  I had to disassembly this cabinet recently (not fully) to move it to a different location.  The only electrical components that were disconnected were the 2 cables connecting power supply to monitor, and one cable connecting power plug on back panel to the power supply.

i had to remove the monitor from the cabinet in order to move it, there are two cables coming from power supply to monitor, and are detailed in this picture. http://www.flickr.com/photos/orionsilver/4812334852/#

One is a 3 wire harness, yellow/brown/green (green = ground), this wire looks exactly like the wire that comes from my outlet plug to the power supply (possibly unconverted power?), then there is another 6 wire harness where all wires are in a horizontal formation,  this comes from the power supply and connects to the monitor.  Both of these cables only attach in one direction/orientation, so they are plugged in correctly.

I also had to remove the back panel of the cabinet, on the back panel is the 100v (japanese) plug adaptor, that goes to my wall,  i've been using this cabinet on an american 120v outlet with no problems for over a year.   There are 3 wires in a harness that connect the back panel to the rest of the cabinet (straight into the power supply)  These are yellow/brown/green (green is ground, screwed directly to the back panel metal).  Brown/Yellow connect to a noise filter that is mounted on the back panel,  from the otherside of the noise filter, brown and yellow are fed through a safety fuse, and into the outlet hookup, as well as an auxillary outlet (to hook up another device) on the back panel.
the following are pictures of this.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/orionsilver/4812335936/#  Wire harness that connects back panel to power supply in cabinet.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/orionsilver/4812331714/# Noise filter that connects to outlet/fuse on one side, and power supply on other.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/orionsilver/4812330526/# close up of noise filter.

When moving the cabinet, i had to unplug the 2 leads that are coming out of the noise filter on the cabinet side,  itsp ossible that these were/are plugged in the wrong directly now,  (there is only two, so only two possibilities here)  As well as the ground, which is screwed directly into the metal back plate.

When i reassembled everything, and reattached everything, i turned the cabinet power supply on.  (i only use this to power the monitor, there is no board attached), the monitored flickered on, and then off, and it tripped my circuit breaker.  I tried this a few more times with the same result,   i reversed the wires coming off the noise filter, and had the same result. 

My question is,  what could cause this?  neither the fuse on the back plate or power supply are blown, the monitor definitely powered up for a second and then cut off.

if i unplug the monitor from the power supply, it still trips the circuit breaker, so i think its ruled out as a monitor problem.

am i missing something?

[grantspain]

your photos are difficult to see,tripping the fuse box will point to you have a wire in the wrong place

you need to start disconnecting everything you reconnected until the trip remains on

you also need a multimeter to read voltages as you go

[malelanct]

Thanks man,

Yeah, the photos are ---smurfy---, i took them with my phone this morning as i was running out the door so i could make this post from work,  i will take more pictures tonight with a real camera, and post up when i get home.

i have a multimeter but i'm not sure what type of voltage i should be looking for, and where i should be testing it from.  is the noise filter just a pass through? should brown be lined up with brown, and yellow be lined up with yellow coming through?  i'll  do some more tests tonight and get some better pictures,  thanks for the head start though

[grantspain]

strange colours for mains wiring
cyberlead should run from a 240 to 120 vac stepdown
get some better pics mate

[malelanct]

you got it, pics tonight, anything in specific you think will help besides the following pictures?

wiring from back panel to power supply
wiring from power supply to monitor

do you want to see anything on the chassis of the monitor?

[grantspain]

photos of everything you unplugged and plugged back in

[BobA]

Japanese cabs should be run on a 100VAC adapter and not just a plug adapter.  Providing 110 to 120V can damage components.   Is it possible that where the cab was previously had a lower voltage eg 110 and now you have moved it to a place where it receiving a higher volatage causing the PS to trip?

[grantspain]

all jap cabs run on 120vac,the only problem one is the wei ya psu in awsd cabs that does not like 120-it works but runs unstable
but yeah 100vac stepdown is better as its the designated operation voltage

[malelanct]

i dont think the voltage between outlets is different, and its not the fuse in the cabinet that is tripping (that would mean too much voltage coming in) its the breaker box in my house thats tripping (short or sucking too much power out)  i'm positive the cabinet isnt overloading the fuse for the house, so its definitely the former (a short).


in the process of putting new pics up and working out another post with more info.

[malelanct]

took some more pictures today,  i think at this point i can rule out any issues with the monitor, because in the configuration i tested today, the only things connected were the power supply, to the back panel, the monitor was completely disconnected, on power on, it trips my breaker immediately.  I also realized that i could probably use some photography advice, as even with the good camera, i suck at taking pictures.

here are the details i found out today.

the back panel looks like this.
http://zendesktops.com/images/cabinet/DSC00389.JPG (rear of cabinet)  picture is blurry but, on th eleft is a normal 3 prong power connector, that comes from my wall, in the is a removable fuse, and on the right is an auxillary outlet.  on top is a breakout board for hooking up another display or another cabinet that we arent talking about today, because its completely unhooked from the other side.

http://zendesktops.com/images/cabinet/DSC00390.JPG this is what the panel looks like from the inside,

from what i gather, there is 3 wires coming off the plug, yellow, brown, green,  green is definitely ground because its screwed into the panel,  when the wires come out of the external outlet, they go as follows:

yellow goes directly into the external fuse, comes back out the other side of the fuse, and goes into a wire-nut/splitter, it is split into 2 leads, one to the external power jack, and one to the noise filter

brown goes directly into the wire-nut/splitter and is split into 2 leads, one to the noise filter and the other to the opposite pole on the external jack.

green goes into the splitter, splits one to bolt welded onto the inside of the back panel, and one to the external jack ground terminal.

yellow and brown come off the noise filter and go directly to a wire harness, joined by green again.  The 3 wires i disconnected while moving the cabinet were these 3,  i unbolted the ground, and removed the yellow and brown wire from the external side of the noise filter, this allowed me to remove the back panel completely.  If there was a mistake here, it would have been connecting yellow and brown to the wrong terminals on the noise filter,  however neither configuration is working. (both causing the short)
the harness is the matching end of this one.
http://zendesktops.com/images/cabinet/DSC00385.JPG this is on the power supply side.  the wires are the same colors, and the harness only connects one way,  this connection goes directly to the power supply, green splits off at some point to be bolted to the inside of the cabinet for more ground, and then continues on.

this is what the power supply looks like
http://zendesktops.com/images/cabinet/DSC00384.JPG
this is what the front looks like
http://zendesktops.com/images/cabinet/DSC00386.JPG

on the front is a power switch, another external fuse, a reset button (red) and yet another auxillary outlet.

the wires from the panel connect to the harness and go directly towards the buttons,

there are 3 harnesses coming off the power supply, shown below.

http://zendesktops.com/images/cabinet/DSC00388.JPG

from what i can tell, the standard 3 wire harness of yellow/brown/green is direct from the outlet, it only passes through the switch, it does NOT pass through the power supply, this goes to the monitor, the other smaller harness of two wires is directly wired to the reset button, it connects to the JVS I/O and audio board built into the cab.  the larger multi-wire harness also goes to this board.  the only thing that actually comes out of the power supply itself is the multi-wire harness that connects to the JVS stuff, it looks like the wires that goto the monitor dont pass through the power supply, just the switch.  Is this possible?  (i'm bringing this up because at this point the power supply is causing me problems, but i only really need the monitor to work, the jvs stuff isn't as important to me)

the 3 wire harness that goes to the monitor feeds into the only cable coming off the monitor board besides vga.  so it must be power, it looks like this.  http://zendesktops.com/images/cabinet/DSC00395.JPG
The five wires are yellow/brown/green from before , and two addition wires that go direct to the degauss button.

i think that covers everything i learned,





 

[grantspain]

disconnect the out wire from the filter then try
did you disconnect the on/off switch?

[malelanct]

which one is the out wire? theres 4 wires that come off the noise filter, 2 come from the outlet, and 2 goto the power supply,  theres nothing clearly labeled as out, only terminals 1 2 3 and 4,  2 brown in, 2 yellow in,

[grantspain]

disconnect the 2 that go to the power supply

[malelanct]

ok, i did that, the only thing i can test here is voltage, because the power switch is on the power supply, so i can't turn it on or off, if i plug it in, i definitely get voltage off the noise filter out terminals.

here is the best picture i have of the noise filter, in this picture left comes in from the outlet, and right goes out to the power supply

http://zendesktops.com/images/cabinet/DSC00392.JPG

[grantspain]

so you checked ac out from the filter and read 115vac or near?

next thing to do is disconnect the ac in on the power supply pcb itself/leave the monitor disconnected and disconnect any marquee lamp
then see if the trip blows-obviously plug the two wies back on the filter

[malelanct]

ok, heres the update,

i'm not super sure how to use a multimeter but, i have 3 settings on the red side, for ACV, 1000, 150, 15,  for these tests, i used 1000,

off the noise filter i get somewhere between 100-200 stable when set to 1000ACV,

if i unplug the ac from the power supply pcb, and test that wire, i get the same 100-200 stable, (it sits stable, but i say 100-200 because its so small its hard to tell)

if i test the wire that goes to the monitor, that i thought wasnt passing through the power supply, i get the same 100-200 stable.  if i plug the cord into the power supply board, i trip the breaker.  i unplugged everything else off the power supply board (JVS harness stuff) and ran it again, tripped the breaker.

whatever is causing my breaker to trip is on the power supply board itself.

i connected the noise filter AC Harness directly to the monitor AC Harness, since the voltage was the same and the power supply wasnt doing anything,  the monitor flashed up, it displayed a very tiny horizontal image of what should have been on the full screen, it was the full width of the screen, but no taller than an inch, after a few seconds (as if a built in fail safe for invalid modes?) it just shut off, since i've bypassed th eon/off switch, my only method to turn things off is to yank the plug,  it seems like the monitor actually takes a few seconds to cool down after this, and i need to let it sit for a few minutes before i can run this test again.

[grantspain]

right set your meter at 150 and that will help

did you remove the monitor as well? or unplug anything else

have you checked you have not plug the power supply input/output in around the wrong way etc and that nothing has dropped onto the power supply like a nut

[malelanct]

yeah, theres definitely nothing loose on the power supply board, and i did this test with no monitor attached, nothing at all attached, just power into the board,

[grantspain]

if with the power supply input ac unplugged your monitor works and so does the marquee light then its either the power supply itself faulty or a wiring to the power supply

[malelanct]

ok, so then the power supply is definitely at fault here, but since i only need to run the monitor, i can eliminate it from the equation,  but now i have another problem, a monitor problem (so i finally belong in this thread)

as i mentioned early, i can get the monitor to power up, i'm feeding it a 15khz signal that i've fed it before with no problems, the picture shows up on the screen, full horizontal but only about 2 inches high, and in the center of the screen (almost like a bad modeline or something, but i'm sure the resolution is the same that i've used before),  after about 5 seconds or so, the monitor clicks off, (sounds like some type of failsafe for sending it a signal it cant read, but i've never had this before) usually when i send it a signal that the clock cant grab, it will just flicker and flash, 

any ideas?

[grantspain]

either you have bad solder joint on the chassis somewhere or the vertical deflection circuit is failing-could be a capacitor or the vertical deflection ic-could be a broken vertical size pot
what monitor is it?

[malelanct]

its a nanao ms29

i'm not 100% sure on the model number but its a nanao, and its 29 inches, and its the 15/25khz switchable by moving the harness on the board

[malelanct]

if it was a loose solder joint, would it actually shut down after a few seconds as described?

[grantspain]

yeah possible but more likely vertical deflection ic failing

did this machine ever work?

[malelanct]

yeah it definitely worked, i was using it about a month ago, then i moved it downstairs, and it stopped working,  because i took the monitor out, i think a loose solder point could be reasonable, because of how heavy the monitor is, and using the chassis etc to slip it into the cabinet, something could be loose.

can you provide a schematic of the parts i should be looking at for loose connections?

if the ic needs to be replaced thats fine too,

[grantspain]

you should inspect the solder side of the monitor chassis first and check the remote board-take it from there

[malelanct]

am i inspecting the solder side of the lower board? or am i looking at the neckboard too?

[grantspain]

check over both while you are there,on the neck board check for bad solder joints around the crt socket
on the main chassis check around cn402 remote connector and the fbt as well as the yoke connector
check you have not damaged the vertical size pot when removing the monitor

nanao shut down on any fault in the vertical deflection circuit
the monitor should still power up fine and run even without a video signal connected btw

[malelanct]

yeah, i tested it without a video signal, and the same thing happened, 5-6 seconds shut down.

i'll take al ook today, i don thave experience with chassis, so i duno about messing with the neckboard much,b ut i'll atleast look at the base board.

[grantspain]

all you can do is take a look for obvious problems then its off for repair or replacement if you get no joy

i am guessing you are in the U.S,i am not sure who does chassis repairs there-maybe arcade cup or whatever they are called
other option of course if its a nanao ms9-29 is to replace the chassis with a tri sync rodotron 666a or wei ya 3129a

[malelanct]

took a look at the boards, looks clean,  probably more interested in chassis replacement than repair at this point.  (monitor probably would need cap kit soon anyway).

is there a dealer/reseller that carries those chassis in the usa?  only things i could find was information pages in chinese.

[malelanct]

also, is there alot of 29inch nanao monitors?  i cant confirm mine is an ms9-29, all i can confirm is that its a 29inch nanao, and its theo ne thats switchable from 15khz to 25khz via harness ont he board.

[grantspain]

ms8-29
ms9-29
all with different editions
i can tell from a photo what it is

http://www.arcadecup.com/

[malelanct]

What do you need pictures of? the board? the tube? any specific areas?

also i checked out that site, but looks like they dont have parts for the 29inch? unless its something i just need to ask about and it isnt listed on the site.

[grantspain]

What do you need pictures of? the board? the tube? any specific areas?

also i checked out that site, but looks like they dont have parts for the 29inch? unless its something i just need to ask about and it isnt listed on the site.

photo of the monitor chassis(main monitor board)