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Author Topic: Calipers  (Read 3472 times)

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SavannahLion

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Calipers
« on: June 26, 2010, 01:06:50 am »
I'm rebuilding the controls and I need to order some of the "standard" parts online, such as the pots. (My local electronics shop doesn't carry 5k pots). The choices in dimensions are kind of awkward and I want to avoid ordering the wrong sizes.

So I got to thinking I should buy a caliper to make more accurate measurements of those odd shapes.

I've never used calipers but I have read about their usage in machinists books. Not too difficult a tool to use I figure.

I kind of don't want to spend a lot of money though.

HF sells a bare bones basic caliper for less than $2.00. But then they sell Digital Calipers for $10 (batteries, ugh) and dial calipers for $19 as well as a basic technical set for $10.

I figure I can buy the cheapest then once I have a better idea of what I need/want, I can splurge on a much better measuring tool. But on the flip side, I'm a familiar with the, "this is a crap tool and hard to use. I'll never buy anything like it again," syndrome.

Anyone who use calipers have any suggestions for what I should buy?

MonMotha

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Re: Calipers
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2010, 02:01:33 am »
Pretty much any dial caliper is going to be reasonably easy to use, and they'll probably be accurate enough for any needs you may have.

I'm mostly with you on the digital ones, but they do usually offer a metric/inch option, which can be handy.  Sometimes you need a measurement in one unit or the other (especially for connectors), and not having to convert is handy.

As far as other stuff you may need, I find a nice metal ruler about 8" long with fractional as well as decimal inches and decimal mm to be very useful.

I have a set with a machinist's square, dial caliper, ruler (as described above), and a micrometer.  I don't use the micrometer too often, but the other stuff all gets used.  I think the set was a christmas gift, but I don't think it was particularly expensive, either.

Silas (son of Silas)

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Re: Calipers
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2010, 04:09:19 am »
I was taught how to use a 'proper' vernier caliper like the one in your link when I was a kid in school. I also used to spend my summer breaks working in my father's precision engineering company learning how to use various tools and machines.

As an adult I have used dial/vernier and digital vernier calipers. To be honest, I know that using a straight vernier caliper can take some getting used to/learning, but I prefer them. They are quick, accurate and cheap and unlike batteries they don't fail.

Unfortunately we live in a world where actually learning how to use and look after tools properly seems to be unfashionable, so we dumb down and either get someone else to make it (not the case with most of us on here I am pleased to say), we use tools incorrectly, or we buy Chinese plastic crap pseudo-tools from 'we sell everything' grocery stores and still use them incorrectly.

Hands up who knows someone who owns any of the following but they don't know how to use it, or when they do use it the results are more often than not less than they hoped for:

Vernier caliper
Micrometer
Digital Multimeter (wow, what do all those symbols mean?)
Soldering Iron (that's a little messier than I thought it was going to be and now I have a hole in my PCB  :banghead:)
Wet stone (I actually happen to prefer my chisels to have that funny angle )
Wheel type pipe cutter (Nice corkscrew patterns on the end of your copper pipes anyone?)
Welding equipment (any type, MIG, gas, TIG etc. Using bird mess to adjoin 2 pieces of metal was never a good idea)
Any woodworking tool (I'll just use my belt/orbital sander to fix that later  ::) ) - Sadly I see that on here from time to time

I think one of the things I like about this forum is the fact that it pulls together folks from all walks of life who share a common interest in arcade machines and more importantly are willing to turn their hand to a bit of DIY, learn from others wisdom/experience/their past mistakes and who are willing to have a go at learning manual skills that sadly seem less and less important these days.

My personal preference would be to buy a regular vernier or a dial caliper.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2010, 04:12:02 am by Silas (son of Silas) »
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Franco B

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Re: Calipers
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2010, 04:16:07 am »
My personal preference would be to buy a regular vernier or a dial caliper.

I completely disagree.

Get the cheap digital calipers without a doubt.

Turn them on, set the outside legs against an external diameter to measure, or the inside legs to measure an internal diameter and simply read the measurement from the digital readout. Easy as that.

You wont have any difficulty reading dials or scales and your much less likely to make an incorrect reading.

I use digital verniers every day and I can only remember changing a battery once in the 10+ years I have been using them.

As MonMotha said they tend to have an imperial/metric button so you can quickly convert dimensions or change between the two measuring systems.

Silas (son of Silas)

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Re: Calipers
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2010, 04:28:39 am »
I understand why so many prefer the digi calipers. Like I said It's just a personal preference.

I own a Draper digital caliper and it's easy to use, accurate and hasn't needed a battery change since I bought it a couple of years ago, I still prefer my old vernier calipers.
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Franco B

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Re: Calipers
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2010, 05:13:28 am »
Personal preference aside, It would be much easier and less troublesome for someone who has no experience in reading Veriner scales or clock dials to use a digital caliper rather than a slide or dial caliper.

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Re: Calipers
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2010, 09:12:11 am »

Welding equipment (any type, MIG, gas, TIG etc. Using bird mess to adjoin 2 pieces of metal was never a good idea)
Any woodworking tool (I'll just use my belt/orbital sander to fix that later  ::) ) - Sadly I see that on here from time to time


Dunno, I weld pretty well, but routers scare me.
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shmokes

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Re: Calipers
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2010, 08:34:41 pm »

Hands up who knows someone who owns any of the following but they don't know how to use it, or when they do use it the results are more often than not less than they hoped for:


Dude . . . you didn't always know how to use that stuff.  In your post you dog on people for doing things improperly and for hiring the job out.  Um . . . is there another option I'm not aware of?  What do you suggest?  Everyone just read books until they have absorbed enough info that they automatically become master craftsmen?  People learn by doing.  When I bought a soldering iron, a digital multimeter, a router . . . I didn't have the first idea how to use them, and my early results were not great, but now I do pretty decent work with them (actually I still don't know what 90% of the stuff on the multimeter means, I just check voltages and tone things out with it).  For the average person the calipers are going to be used like once or twice per year.  It would be crazy for that person to learn how to read dials/scales when digital calipers are so inexpensive and will more than suffice for the light work these people typically do.  And each of their mistakes moves them one step closer to doing it right the next time.   :dunno

It sounds like you are a professional, or have at least had a lot of professional training.  It makes no sense to expect the same level of expertise out of the average person.
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Re: Calipers
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2010, 10:41:16 pm »
I like my cheapo ebay specials.  I don't own any cheap digital calipers but I've got a few generic metal dial calipers of various size.  I do some amateur machining once in a while and they've always been good enough for the jobs I do.

Silas (son of Silas)

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Re: Calipers
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2010, 03:50:39 am »

Hands up who knows someone who owns any of the following but they don't know how to use it, or when they do use it the results are more often than not less than they hoped for:


Dude . . . you didn't always know how to use that stuff.  In your post you dog on people for doing things improperly and for hiring the job out.  Um . . . is there another option I'm not aware of?  What do you suggest?  Everyone just read books until they have absorbed enough info that they automatically become master craftsmen?  People learn by doing.  When I bought a soldering iron, a digital multimeter, a router . . . I didn't have the first idea how to use them, and my early results were not great, but now I do pretty decent work with them (actually I still don't know what 90% of the stuff on the multimeter means, I just check voltages and tone things out with it).  For the average person the calipers are going to be used like once or twice per year.  It would be crazy for that person to learn how to read dials/scales when digital calipers are so inexpensive and will more than suffice for the light work these people typically do.  And each of their mistakes moves them one step closer to doing it right the next time.   :dunno

It sounds like you are a professional, or have at least had a lot of professional training.  It makes no sense to expect the same level of expertise out of the average person.

You missed my point Shmokes.

You are spot on when you say I didn't always know how to do stuff. I learn new skills all the time. This year I have learned how to cut paving slabs to lay a patio and thanks to Epyx and a whole bunch of research I now know how to apply laminate and have done so very successfully on my own cab. In the past I learned to weld at night school to restore a classic car and had to learn to progress past the bird poop stage, I learned who to use a spray gun using books and trial and plenty of error, I learned how to plaster from books and a DVD then plastered my whole house because I couldn't afford to pay someone to do it. I fitted my own kitchen and had to learn basic plumbing to do so (that's why I mentioned the spirals on the copper pipe; been there done that.

Like I tell my kids all the time, I don't care if they come last, as long as they are trying their best. There's a lot of truth in the old saying 'If a jobs worth doing, it's worth doing right' I can appreciate the effort people put into their cabs, even if the end result is a pile of meadow muffin. Seeing people bodge along with a 'yeah, that'll do' attitude makes me wonder why they bother.

I'm not a pro, I am an IT professional who pushes buttons all day.

The other option I am referring to is what a lot of the people on this forum do already, i.e. learn how to use (and look after) their tools. I include you in that  statement. I've seen the quality of the work you did on your pedal cluster. I've had it bookmarked for over six months because I had been doing some research for building a driving cab. It was the woodwork at the back of your pedal cluster that gave me the idea to paint the wood in my own cab black. From your own work you don't strike me as the type of person I was referring to in my reply. You appear to already pay attention to detail and have bothered to learn how to DIY

I was just saying that a some people don't bother learning how to do things any more. If I buy a new power tool, a quick read of the manual doesn't do any harm does it? If I notice a new button / setting / whatever that I don't know what it does, it's there for a reason, so I find out what it's for and if needs be, have a practice on some scrap so that I can get the most out of my new tool.

I think perhaps my disappointment is only with a relatively small percentage of the folks on this forum, but in the populous at large, the percentage is higher.

There is/was a particular thread in the project section (I won't be more specific) that I honestly thought must have been a wind up. I have seen some very sharp comments on this forum, people generally say what they feel, (which is a good thing I think). I followed the particular thread I am referring to for a few weeks in amazement as the individual churned out some horrendous work and everyone watched and cheered him on as he continually bragged about how terrible his workmanship was and worse still how incredibly stupid/dangerous his use of power tools was. The end result is so bad, that I would even put it out with the trash in case my neighbors saw it, yet other projects on here, that may not set the world on fire because they don't have 700 spinning LEDs, 2 miles of El-Wire and a built in beer fridge but DO show attention to detail and fine craftsmanship get unwarranted digs/criticism, often from people who have never built their own cab, just criticize others. I was reading that particular thread before replying to this one, so it's probably grossly unfair to SavannahLion that I climbed up on my soapbox when all he wanted was advice on some calipers.

Learning how to use a set of verniers takes, what? 3 minutes? If I didn't already know how to use them, I figure I have, say, 40 years left on the planet. 3 minutes to learn how to use them is time well invested.

I'm not expecting any level of expertise from anyone. I was merely observing that there is a growing reluctance to learn useful, transferable DIY skills.
" ਜਿਹੜਾ ਲਾਓ ਜਰਦਾ ਉਹ ਸੌ ਸਾਲ ਨੰਈ ਮਰਦਾ " (he who chews tobacco would live to be a hundred )

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Silas (son of Silas)

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Re: Calipers
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2010, 03:51:50 am »

Welding equipment (any type, MIG, gas, TIG etc. Using bird mess to adjoin 2 pieces of metal was never a good idea)
Any woodworking tool (I'll just use my belt/orbital sander to fix that later  ::) ) - Sadly I see that on here from time to time


Dunno, I weld pretty well, but routers scare me.

They're supposed to be scared, they're bloody dangerous  ;)
« Last Edit: June 27, 2010, 05:40:58 am by Silas (son of Silas) »
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shmokes

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Re: Calipers
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2010, 01:44:28 pm »
I include you in that  statement. I've seen the quality of the work you did on your pedal cluster. I've had it bookmarked for over six months because I had been doing some research for building a driving cab. It was the woodwork at the back of your pedal cluster that gave me the idea to paint the wood in my own cab black. From your own work you don't strike me as the type of person I was referring to in my reply. You appear to already pay attention to detail and have bothered to learn how to DIY

Aw . . . now I feel bad.   

To be fair, I'm sorta talking out of turn.  I don't even know what vernier means.   ;D
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Re: Calipers
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2010, 02:26:07 am »
I don't even know what vernier means.   ;D

Ain't that the woodgrain stuff on the sides of cabinets ?   ;D


(I prefer dial calipers, but nothing against the rest either)
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Silas (son of Silas)

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Re: Calipers
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2010, 05:37:00 am »
I don't even know what vernier means.   ;D

Ain't that the woodgrain stuff on the sides of cabinets ?   ;D


(I prefer dial calipers, but nothing against the rest either)
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Re: Calipers
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2010, 09:37:46 am »
Show and tell?

I use "vintage" Helios Vernier (German) calipers I inherited from my Dad. After all these years they are still extremely tight.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 09:41:27 am by gryhnd »
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Re: Calipers
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2010, 01:34:52 pm »
Verniers are great, but like myself I tend to work with tolerances in the thousandths, so this is where the dial comes into play.
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