Xbox 360 gets USB Storage

[DJ_Izumi]

While the 360 long could use USB drives to access images, videos and audio files it couldn't use them for much else. This morning the dashboard was updated with a new feature that would allow users to use USB hard drives and flash drives in place of the far more expensive memory cards that Microsoft has offered. While Microsoft is now selling specially made 8 and 16GB drives made by SanDisk there's no requirement for you to use them. Any off the shelf USB flash drive will do the job. Connect your drive, go to the storage menu, format the drive, about 0.6GB are used for 360 system files and the remainder can be used by the 360 for storage.

There are catches however. The limit is 16GB per device and only two devices may be connected to the 360 at one time. So even if you use a 200GB USB external hard drive only 16GB can be used by the 360, the remainder can still be used by a PC as general storage however.

This obviously isn't a replacement for a 360 HDD since you can now get 250GB for $129USD but if you bought an Xbox 360 Arcade which only comes with 512mb of internal storage it can be a good stop gap solution. Since the 360 Arcade is called 'Arcade' it'd be nice to have sufficent storage to download some Xbox Live Arcade games to, wouldn't it?

I've tested it two two USB devices, one SanDisk Cruzer 2GB USB stick and a SanDisk USB card reader with a 1GB SD Card inside it. The Cruzer met performance requirements and it seemed to work as well as any storage. The USB card reader failed in requirements and was a bit slow in loading XBLA games and such.

From what I can tell you can use the drives for almost everything, even install a disc game to USB drive for faster performance. The only thing you can't seem to do is emulate Xbox1 games with it. That still seems to require a hard drive.

Myself, I see it primarily as a means to back up XBLA data to save bandwidth should I ever need to re-download. Also for using 360's at gaming events I can have a few XBLA games on a cheap disposible memory card and not have expensive hard drive attached to the unit.

Anyone else have experiences or comments to make?

[northerngames]

so people will now be putting DL content or XBLA games on these cards and selling them on ebay at a discounted price 

I bet live regrets making this move real quik

[HaRuMaN]

so people will now be putting DL content or XBLA games on these cards and selling them on ebay at a discounted price 

I bet live regrets making this move real quik

I'm sure they've considered this and it won't work.

[massive88]

so people will now be putting DL content or XBLA games on these cards and selling them on ebay at a discounted price 

I bet live regrets making this move real quik

You could always do the same thing with the memory cards.

The content is tied to your XBL account.  It wont work unless you are signed in.  So you can take your games to your friends house to play and recover your XBL account on their console, but you could always do that and just re-download it anyway.

Full games arent tied to your account, but still require the original disc to spot check it before loading off the image.

[DJ_Izumi]

so people will now be putting DL content or XBLA games on these cards and selling them on ebay at a discounted price 

I bet live regrets making this move real quik

The data is also KEYED to your system and gamertag.  So all you're selling is a USB drive with useless data because it won't run unless executed by the 360 it was bought on or on another 360 using your gamer tag.  So yeah, that's not an issue at all.

[Howard_Casto]

You mean like how the wii's dlc was keyed to your system?  Yeah now that there is an easy way to transfer any kind of data to the 360 it'll be exploited within the month. 

[massive88]

You mean like how the wii's dlc was keyed to your system?  Yeah now that there is an easy way to transfer any kind of data to the 360 it'll be exploited within the month. 

Define easy?  Its about as easy as it always was, except now you dont have to decase the HDD enclosure, which isnt that hard to do.

You could always before load up files from a USB, just not all types.  Afaik, you still cant load up all types in the same manner, just more types that the XBOX will allow.

[DJ_Izumi]

You mean like how the wii's dlc was keyed to your system?  Yeah now that there is an easy way to transfer any kind of data to the 360 it'll be exploited within the month. 

Access to 360 data is hardly new.  The HDD USB transfer cable allowed the same access to content and we have... Squat!  Datel sold 360 memory cards that actually stored SD flash cards inside so you could manipulate the data but still no exploits.  Even drive modded Xbox 360's can only run unmodified images of games because the DVDRs -still- need to have correctly signed code or the hypervisor won't execute it.  Only JTAG exploited 360's can run unsigned code and those are complicated to create and any 360 that's had it's dash updated since the fall can't even be JTAG exploited.

[DillonFoulds]

You mean like how the wii's dlc was keyed to your system?  Yeah now that there is an easy way to transfer any kind of data to the 360 it'll be exploited within the month. 

Access to 360 data is hardly new.  The HDD USB transfer cable allowed the same access to content and we have... Squat!  Datel sold 360 memory cards that actually stored SD flash cards inside so you could manipulate the data but still no exploits.  Even drive modded Xbox 360's can only run unmodified images of games because the DVDRs -still- need to have correctly signed code or the hypervisor won't execute it.  Only JTAG exploited 360's can run unsigned code and those are complicated to create and any 360 that's had it's dash updated since the fall can't even be JTAG exploited.

Seconded, pretty much everything he said is spot on. There are tricks apparently with disc swapping to get -some- modified content to run (hacked map versions in some games), but even then you're pretty restricted.

JTAG'ing is about the only way to get around signing checks, and even then you're stuck offline (or get banned in 2 minutes flat). DLC has the Console ID stored in it, when it gets downloaded.  Once the console ID has been written, as well as a couple other secondary flags (such as Media ID, the flag-check that modified DVD firmwares skip), the file gets resigned on-the-fly by the 360 (i believe it's by the 360 and not prior to download). If the content gets passed on to a secondary console, first on booting the content, the 360 checks the signing value, and then the console ID and the secondary flags. Once that all passes through successfully, the 360 continues to load the content. This all happens even before the game is loaded, or in-game before the DLC is loaded. Once you replace the Console ID, Media ID, or any other content in the file, you'll need to re-sign the file. Currently, and likely always, this isn't possible. Microsoft has that key locked up somewhere secure on their premises. It's not signed by any keys stored in the 360's keyvault.

As for loading DLC on a stock 360? Not happening. The 360's hypervisor won't allow for the same softmod methods (barring any exploits in the hypervisor surface) that we've seen on the wii and original xbox.

Chances are, if someone has the skills/knowledge/research to JTAG, they can find a plethora of DLC for use.

[DJ_Izumi]

The keying DOES upset me a bit though.  Say if Xbox Live for the 360 goes down and it WILL in 5-8 years or so, I'd love to have backups of my XBLA games on 16GB SD Flash cards stored somewhere for me to re-copy.  But what if my 360 dies and I buy a used replacement after XBL is down?  I'd like to keep my XBLA games.

[massive88]

The keying DOES upset me a bit though.  Say if Xbox Live for the 360 goes down and it WILL in 5-8 years or so, I'd love to have backups of my XBLA games on 16GB SD Flash cards stored somewhere for me to re-copy.  But what if my 360 dies and I buy a used replacement after XBL is down?  I'd like to keep my XBLA games.

Steam has said they will unlock all downloaded games if the service goes under I believe, maybe MS would do something similar if they decide to tank XBL.

Although, I dont think it will go away in 5-8 years, it stands to reason it will go away at some point.

[DillonFoulds]

Yeah, I wouldn't doubt that if they were to take live down, they would put out a final update to free up that content, undoubtedly.

Xbox live is microsoft's bread and butter. It's really the biggest leverage in my eyes the 360 has over the ps3, in my opinion. Live just does everything right.

Edit: got sidetracked typing something, forgot what i was saying, cleaned it up.

[massive88]

I was really surprised that just a year or two ago I played through KoTOR on my 360, and I could get content from live off of it.  Though, that may have been straight from bioware...

At any rate, it was surprising it was still there, and I could get it.

[DJ_Izumi]

I was really surprised that just a year or two ago I played through KoTOR on my 360, and I could get content from live off of it.  Though, that may have been straight from bioware...

At any rate, it was surprising it was still there, and I could get it.

Not much longer you can.  Xbox Live support for the Xbox1 including 360's running Xbox1 games ends at the end of this month or the next.  Then it's alllllll gone.

[northerngames]

You mean like how the wii's dlc was keyed to your system?  Yeah now that there is an easy way to transfer any kind of data to the 360 it'll be exploited within the month. 

exactly.

[DJ_Izumi]

exactly.

Thanks for not reading the rest of the thread where we pointed out that Xbox 360 storage devices have been accessible to PCs for -YEARS-. :/

[northerngames]

exactly.

Thanks for not reading the rest of the thread where we pointed out that Xbox 360 storage devices have been accessible to PCs for -YEARS-. :/

yeah I read it all.

[DJ_Izumi]

yeah I read it all.

Uh huh, and so can you tell me why after all these years they'll MAGICALLY find a way to bypass the hypervisor just by jamming some code on a storage device just because you can use a USB stick now?

You're also missing a very important factor, the 360 has a hypervisor and the Wii doesn't.

[northerngames]

yeah I read it all.

Uh huh, and so can you tell me why after all these years they'll MAGICALLY find a way to bypass the hypervisor just by jamming some code on a storage device just because you can use a USB stick now?

You're also missing a very important factor, the 360 has a hypervisor and the Wii doesn't.

I am no dev but you could start here perhaps

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=hypervisor+bypass

[DJ_Izumi]

I am no dev but you could start here perhaps

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=hypervisor+bypass

Looking for a reference to the 360 there and I don't see any.  The only means to bypass the 360's hypervisor currently is a JTAG exploit which requires an exploit in an older version of the dashboard that has since been patched and then directly accessing the NAND and copying and rewriting it to get it to work.

Simply put, USB support doesn't open any avenues of attack that didn't exist before and the avenue of attack that does work to get the 360's to run unsigned code doesn't even rely on putting trick data into some storage medium.  It's nieve to believe that things will change any time soon.

[DillonFoulds]

i'm backing dj_izumi on this one 100%. Accessing USB as a means of storage will be no different than the hard drive itself. Microsoft had software that will format up to the first 16gb of a usb drive to use as a 360 partition. We all know this already.

What has been modified, is the 360 dashboard's ability to use more than just sata0 (or 1?) as a legitimate storage device. Prior to this update, you could only load content from the side hdd port (sata0/1?) or an (un)authorized memory card (i say "un" because of the clone products).

This update is loosening up the chains, and allowing us to use a usb drive to act as a memory card. Nothing more.

[DJ_Izumi]

It's actually believed that the 360 Slim, assuming the photo was accurate, seems to have no memory card slots.  This would render USB support a requirement and they're rolling out USB support early to effectively bridge the gap ahead of time.

[northerngames]

I just know if there is a will there is a way its all just a matter of time as with any prior console's.

wii came out first and it got it first and the next two will follow eventually.

[DJ_Izumi]

I just know if there is a will there is a way its all just a matter of time as with any prior console's.

wii came out first and it got it first and the next two will follow eventually.

Yes and as two of us have already pointed out, there already IS a means to run unsigned code on the Xbox 360, it's just not 'super easy'.  So clearly there is a way, you seem to have this expectation that there will always be an 'idiot proof' way which is an unreasonable expectation.

[northerngames]

right eventually there will be an easier way for sure and of coarse and this just may be the key someone needed to go that much further is all but then it may not but I am sure someone will add some niftyness to this new upgrade..

like I had pointed out also look at all prior console's period.
 

[DillonFoulds]

wii came out first and it got it first and the next two will follow eventually.

The 360 was out a year before the wii was...

If we're going to talk about previous consoles, i don't believe the sega saturn ever had a hack that didn't involve a chip. PS1 and 2 both required either swap discs or memory card exploits, and none of these dealt with the magnitude that is digital content and security (signing, hash checks, hypervisors, etc.). The only other system you can compare to is the ps3, and unless you have a time machine, you sure won't be comparing the "past" of these 2 systems.

That being said, I'll repeat myself. Barring the discovery of a hypervisor exploit, you'll be hard pressed to find a softmod for the 360. Before the dashboard is even loaded, the boot system already hash checks and sign checks the nand via CB and CD. Hence the need to resistors. You'll need to circumvent the hypervisor before the dashboard has even booted, and before you even see the 360 boot animation.

But that's just the technical side of things. I would appreciate seeing a 360 softmod, but I'm just really not sure it's feasible.

[DJ_Izumi]

I'm keen with my Xbox being ligit.  It means Sega will get my money for their efforts put into After Burner Climax and I can still access Live for leaderboards and online play and all that goodness.

[DillonFoulds]

I've got 2 XBR (JTAG'ed) boxes, but now i need to track down a third box to keep stock. I miss xbox live For friends, not for the kiddies screaming in to their mics...