Scrolling image on Hantarex 9110 [SOLVED]

[raungst]

I've been trying this afternoon to get my computer (with ArcadeVGA2) to hookup to the Hantarex 9110 that came with the cabinet I have. I have the breakout cable I got from Ultimarc and have the inputs matched up correctly for the monitor. The monitor comes on, and with adjusting the dials on the back, I've gotten to this close (see video). What else am I missing? Is it possible I'm sending a bad signal or resolution from the ArcadeVGA? What else could be wrong?



Thanks for any help.

[raungst]

I was able to get the horizontal and vertical frequencies set close to right. Now I have a bigger issue. The dials are so sensitive and correct at such a miniscule range that the vibration from the power supply, or even just lightly touching the cab will cause them to change and lose a stable picture. I'm not sure what to do now.

Ideas?

[grantspain]

its either your settings or sync,i am sure there is a sync polarity switch on that chassis so try that first

[raungst]

Would that affect the sensitivity of the dials?

[grantspain]

when the sync is not quite right you can just about lock the picture but then it tends to wander

[raungst]

Hmm. Thanks for your help in this. What would cause the sync to not be quite right?

[grantspain]

Hmm. Thanks for your help in this. What would cause the sync to not be quite right?

sync and video ground reversed/need to link vertical and horizontal sync/sync switch on wrong polarity/99.999999999% of the time anyone running mame have not set their properties correctly or installed the avga driver

[raungst]

All of those are quite possible. The odd thing though, is that I know where the sync switch is supposed to be (as its traced on the pcb and mentioned in the manual) but the switch isn't actually there. As for ArcadeVGA not being setup right, I have the driver installed and just have it set to 640x480. I'm not sure what else I'm supposed to do.

The monitor board has separate spots for Vsync and Hsync. Should I hook them together? The vertical shift also doesn't have a knob, or really a place to put a knob. I'm starting to think that this has more problems that I think it has. I'm guessing the person I bought the cab from realized this too.

[lilshawn]

check your cable sync is correct with the vga pinout here:

Pin 1   RED (video)
Pin 2   GREEN
Pin 3   BLUE
Pin 4   ID2/RES (ignore)
Pin 5   GND   Ground (HSync)
Pin 6   RED_RTN   (Red return)
Pin 7   GREEN_RTN   
Pin 8   BLUE_RTN   
Pin 9   KEY/PWR   formerly a pin key, now +5V DC
Pin 10 GND   Ground (VSync)
Pin 11 ID0/RES (ignore)
Pin 12 ID1/SDA   (ignore)
Pin 13 HSync   Horizontal sync
Pin 14 VSync   Vertical sync
Pin 15 ID3/SCL   (ignore)

[raungst]

I got the cable from ultimarc so I have to rely on the fact that they're labeled correctly, I guess.

[grantspain]

do you have a photo of how you have connected the breakout to the video signal input plug of the chassis

[raungst]

Here are two pictures. The one shows the harness to the board. The other shows the dials. The big black dial, second from the left is the one I'm concerted about. It's marked vertical shift but does have a knob, and none of the other ones fit it. You can also see behind the harness where the polarity switch is traced on the board. My board just doesn't have one.

From left to right, the harness wires are B / G / R / All Grounds / VSync / HSync

[lilshawn]

c17 and c19 are there, it probably wouldn't hurt to put a switch on there and give it a try... check the underside of the board, it just might be jumpered for + sync

[grantspain]

it would not hurt to try connecting the sync onto the plug header above

[raungst]

it would not hurt to try connecting the sync onto the plug header above

I'm not sure what this means. Thanks for all the help, btw.

[deweyhewson]

This same thing was happening to me and NOBODY on the internet knew what was going on. See here:

Turns out it was a bad breakout cable from Ultimarc. Andy sent me a new one at no charge (since the first one was defective) and it immediately synced, no problem. So I'd recommend trying that to see if it solves this.

Syncing an image should not be so difficult. There are "perfect" sync points, but really the image should be more difficult to get to NOT sync than it should be to sync. So if it's doing this I'd recommend a new cable.

/experience with Wells-Gardner 25" 25k7191

[raungst]

This same thing was happening to me and NOBODY on the internet knew what was going on. See here:

Turns out it was a bad breakout cable from Ultimarc. Andy sent me a new one at no charge (since the first one was defective) and it immediately synced, no problem. So I'd recommend trying that to see if it solves this.

Syncing an image should not be so difficult. There are "perfect" sync points, but really the image should be more difficult to get to NOT sync than it should be to sync. So if it's doing this I'd recommend a new cable.

/experience with Wells-Gardner 25" 25k7191

It looks pretty much exactly like that. I'm able to get a stable image momentarily but literally just touching the cabinet will cause it to wander again. How did you decide that your cable was bad?

[deweyhewson]

In my case I sent Andy a picture of the cable and he said that it had basically been wired up wrong. But even if yours "looks" fine I'd still ask him if he can send you a new one. He's a good guy, and it should be no problem, especially since, in the nicest way possible, it was his cable he sent that was bad (assuming that the problem you're having is the same as mine was).

[raungst]

Yeah. I sent a picture to Andy and he says it's wired up right. I'm really not sure where to go from here. I'm starting to think it may be easier for me to build a shelf and find a TV that would fit in the bezel. I'm clearly not well versed in arcade monitors.. 

[raungst]

c17 and c19 are there, it probably wouldn't hurt to put a switch on there and give it a try... check the underside of the board, it just might be jumpered for + sync

If I look on the bottom of the board, will I know if its sets for + sync or  - sync? I was looking through Andy's site, and it mentions this "You MAY be able to combine the H and V sync into one composite sync (which is the JAMMA standard) by connecting the wires together. This works OK on the ArcadeVGA card because all video modes output negative H and V sync pulses."

So if the ArcadeVGA is sending - sync signals, and it's jumpered for + sync, could this cause the problem?

[raungst]

I've thought about this some more, and I'm thinking that the published wiring for the board is wrong. In the brief time I had a synced image I noticed that the colors looked like they were switched. If they are, my wiring could be wrong which could also mean I have the two sync wires backwards. If the sync is over different ranges for H and V, that would explain why the Hsync is over a huge range but only a very tiny part is correct, but the Vsync is fairly insensitive.

I'll look into this when I get home and report back if this is the issue. Thanks everyone for the help.

[grantspain]

how did you know what wire went where in the first place or did you guess
i was called out to an arcade last week because their tech wired the video ground to sync and vice versa
what i am saying is unless you have the pinout infront of you you can't be sure and just because a wire is red does not mean its the red signal

[raungst]

This is what I've realized as well. My board has one 6 pin input and one 3 pin input. I've been using this for the pinout of the 6-pin input (http://www.andysarcade.de/data/coinop/videogames/raster%20monitors/hantarex/mtc9110/mtc9110.pdf), but it doesn't mention the other 3 pins so I didn't use them. I'm beginning to think that this manual doesn't match my board exactly, even though the label says its a 9110. I've found it mentioned in other forums that there's variants of the MTC 9000 that aren't documented, but I haven't been able to find out what these other 3 pins do.

[raungst]

Here's what KenLayton says on another forum:

"Hantarex monitors are very particular about how they like the sync signal. There are a couple of different versions of this monitor. If yours has the two seperate white header connectors the sync AND ground will go to the 3 pin connector (H sync and ground only will be connected to this connector). R-G-B will go to the usual 6 pin connector, but not the ground"

So I need to figure out which of the 3 is the H sync and ground.

[grantspain]

video ground would be easy to spot as the grounds will be linked

[raungst]

I know which wire is which, I just don't know what the pins on the board are. See picture 007 above. I need to know what the group of 3 pins are.

[grantspain]

you misunderstand,if you were to meter from the ground on the 6pin then you should easily find the ground on the 3 pin as it will be dead short
then you can just play with the 2 syncs to see what happens

[raungst]

Oh, now I understand. Thanks. I think the 3 pins are identical to the rightmost 3 of the 6. So they're the ground / Vsync / Hsync. I'll double check tonight.

[raungst]

For any one who comes upon this in the future, my problem was that my monitor is a weird variation of the 9110. R G and B go on the 6 pin section, and ground HSync and VSync go on the three pin. This is because the ArcadeVGA sends negative sync signals. If they were positive, they would all go on the 6 pin. As soon as I switched the my ground and syncs to the three pin, everything synced easily.

[ginocomino]

For any one who comes upon this in the future, my problem was that my monitor is a weird variation of the 9110. R G and B go on the 6 pin section, and ground HSync and VSync go on the three pin. This is because the ArcadeVGA sends negative sync signals. If they were positive, they would all go on the 6 pin. As soon as I switched the my ground and syncs to the three pin, everything synced easily.

ok I have the same problem as yours but I didn't get how you solved it.
I have an Hantarex 9110 WITH the neg-pos polarity switch on the board.
I have an ArcadeVGA as well...
I tried many config pins on the 6-pin connector:

from left to right

B G R GND V H  (default)
B G R GND X VH
B G R GND V-H
B G R GND VH X
B G R GND V X
B G R GND X H

where X means not connected

...but nothing worked...

how did you solved it?
Both  H and V are connected to Jamma

TIA