United Airlines

[Kevin Mullins]

My girlfriend wrote this up after her recent trip with the baby to California...... opinions wanted. (including personal experiences)

Recently I had the displeasure to fly on United Airlines with my two year old daughter. According to the FAA young children are recommended to be in a 5 point harness while on board any aircraft if you have purchased them a seat (which I did, full price).
http://www.faa.gov/passengers/fly_children/crs/
So, having read this I planned to take my child’s car seat, her diaper bag, and her stroller (which I gate checked). I didn’t take anything unnecessary, just the barest minimum of what was needed to travel with a two year old. As a mother traveling with a small child this was quite a bit to carry and was very cumbersome (two hands are needed to push a stroller, but I also had to carry the car seat). As I went through security I was informed by the TSA agent that her father could walk us to our gate to help carry this, but in order to do so I would have to get a pass from the airline I was traveling with. When I asked the man at United Airlines “Customer Care” about this he was very rude and told me in his most snotty voice that they “don’t do that for any family that needs assistance, only people who are disabled.” I asked if anyone from United could assist me and was told “that is not our job.” When I told the TSA agent what United had told me he shook his head and said “the other airlines give out passes to family members all the time.” I kissed my husband goodbye and went through security, which turned into a twenty minute process. The TSA agents felt so bad for us that they offered to help us to our gate. (The same happened on our return flight, I received more help getting to our gate from TSA than I did my own airline.)
After we finally made it to our gate, I thought our problems were over, ha! While gate checking the stroller I asked about pre-boarding (so that I could install the car seat before being in everyone’s way), but instead of answering my question the gate agent told me that “you will board whenever your section is called.” In other words, he blew me off and didn’t even bother to explain to me that United’s policy is to never pre-board families with children or parents with car seats. I found out that info from the gate agent while boarding for our return flight. Instead of being allowed to install the car seat and buckle in my child in relative peace while first class was boarding, I got to carry the car seat above my head (while carrying my child and her diaper bag) because it was to wide to fit down the isle of the plane and it would’ve bumped into the heads of the people already seated. Then hold up everyone trying to get past me to their seats, while I frantically tried to install the car seat, and at the same time tried to make sure my daughter was safely out of everyone’s way. Other passengers offered more help than the crew in both getting on and off the airplane.
Please understand, I was not asking for anything out of the ordinary- only for United’s employee’s to do their job. Both of our tickets were bought full price. I did not bring excess baggage, in fact her diaper bag fit underneath the seat in front of us. I was asking for a bit of common sense and perhaps a smidgen of humanity. The sad part is that because United did not do their job (the job I paid them to do) other passengers and the TSA agents had to step in and do it.
I am not writing this to complain (okay maybe a little), but to warn anyone considering travel with children about United’s bad policies. I know other airlines are far more considerate of their passengers and actually offer assistance, as well as pre-board people with small children to prevent situations such as mine from happening. If I can keep anyone from having the same experience that I did, I will.

DO NOT FLY UNITED IF YOU ARE FLYING WITH CHILDREN, unless you like being treated like crap!

[Kevin Mullins]

"way I see it, nobody buys anything and since you're not distributing refreshments, there's not really a whole heck of a lot left for you to do.  why does this plane need 3 flight attendants?  Why not just have one to sell stuff and in case of emergency, and then have a roaming employee that goes around and helps people get boarded and then moves on to another flight?  seems like only a matter of time before the airline cuts your jobs"

Funny you said that..... even though I personally wasn't there, that's one of the first things that ran through my mind and I told her the same thing.
"What their job? To hand out peanuts and drinks.... oh wait, they don't hardly do that anymore either. What's the purpose of their job again?"
And don't let me get started on the dweeb at their "Special Services" counter..... I was there an nearly ripped that guy a new ass before the journey ever began.

Anyway, if your wife writes a letter to the airline, you guys will get vouchers... but you'll be stuck flying again.    I always suggest you close a complaint letter with, "and if this problem is not resolved I will make it one of my life's ambitions to tell everyone I know what a horrible experience I had".

Trust me, she is posting her letter on every forum and site that allows posting.
She has also sent a copy to United along with any organization such as the BBB and whatnot.
Common sense goes a loooong way in customer service.

[CheffoJeffo]

ugh ...

I used to fly extensively for business and always enjoyed excellent service.

After the security changes and cutbacks by the airlines, I restructured things at the company so that I don't have to travel. It just became too much of a bother to deal with all of the hassles and the miserable employees who know that they are ghosts in the process.

In the past 6 years I have flown a grand total of twice and, if I had my way (both times were family emergencies), wouldn't have flown at all.

Every summer, we take a family vacation and rent a house in the Outer Banks in NC. It is about an 18 hour drive that I make single handedly (Mrs. Cheffo doesn't like driving in unfamiliar territory and I don't like the way she drives when she isn't comfortable).

This year, we've been entertaining flying down and renting a van for the final leg of the journey. While I am a veteran traveller, we have three kids, two with Autism, and I am worried about what will happen if everything doesn't go according to Hoyle.

Thanks for the reminder as to why I keep choosing to drive instead of using those frequent flyer miles ...

[danny_galaga]

good news is that while service is slumping, at least the fairs are cheap 

[Kevin Mullins]

Ironically this was posted a day after my girlfriends post:

Is it just me or does it seem that SOME of the employees of United Airlines are a bit rude? I haven't flown in quite a while but recently decided to take a trip to LA to visit my daughter. I am not too computer savvy but I did manage to make my reservations online and search for updates regarding the new rules for luggage weights and carry on requirements. Upon arriving at the counter, a young man was talking to his fellow employee behind the counter. I patiently waited until he had finished assuming he would look my way and say something like, "Good Morning Ma'm, how can I help you?" What I did get was a exaggerated eye roll and him pointing at the little screen that you are supposed to check yourself in with. Like I said, it has been a while and I honestly had no idea what the hell that contraption was. I did manage to figure it out but as I did, I thought about my elderly parents who do not use the computer and how intemidated they would be by this. Some of you will probably say for me to get with the times. Yeah, I know. But after the price I paid for my ticket, I just felt like the could have been a little more accommodating and besides that, this is my rant!. I guess what I am trying to say is that maybe people that are in the customer service business should try to be a little kinder and patient. I know they deal with a tremendous amount of people everyday so I know that I am not the only one this young man was rude to. So there, I said it and I feel better. Thanks for listening!

[Ken Layton]

Take the train instead.

[Kevin Mullins]

Taking the train has actually come up in a few conversations now. 

Sure.... takes a little longer.... but less hassle, less aggravation, cheaper, more room, just casually more comfortable all around, you can get up and maybe hit the club car (do they still have those?), just overall a more enjoyable means of transportation for what you're paying for.

I actually wish trains would make a comeback for more reasons as well..

[Hockeyboy]

Don't even get me started with United...our daughter flew from Oregon to Wisconsin after Christmas and it was a crappy trip all the way, from getting bumped, dumped, cancelled, and forced to spend the night overnight in Chicago to getting bumped, delayed, flying OVER Wisconsin but not landing only to turn around to land back in Chicago, to not delivering her luggage, to promises of food vouchers that never were given out to promises of vouchers that never arrived. And the best part was us on the phone with customer service and the agent says to my wife: "...and when agent xxxx promised you that this would happen, do you happen to know PROMISE personally?"

Yeah, we let them have it. And it's not over because we are supposed to be referred to someone higher up and retell our story all over again.

I used to love flying for business and family trips but now it's just a hassle and the airlines know they've got you. 

[Level42]

Taking the train has actually come up in a few conversations now. 

Sure.... takes a little longer.... but less hassle, less aggravation, cheaper, more room, just casually more comfortable all around, you can get up and maybe hit the club car (do they still have those?), just overall a more enjoyable means of transportation for what you're paying for.

I actually wish trains would make a comeback for more reasons as well..

If there's a country in the world that needs hi-speed trains it's the US.

First time we visited the US we took the train from NYC to Boston. I figured it would be much nicer to be able to see something while travelling. First thing we saw were "a bit lesser parts" of NYC and despite having seen such areas in movies, I was in awe.....anyway, sure it was about 6 hours IIRC but otherwise it was a nice ride along the east-coast with plenty to see. I enjoyed it. Great (reserved) seats, airco, time to walk around, got up to the club car (yes they do have them, at least they had them then) talked a long time with the guy working there, gave my aunt a ring from the train (not much GSM based phones then overthere, 1998) about what time we'd arrive at Boston central station.

On the back trip, we would be flying back home from Newark and I heard that it was called that the train would stop there too. We had tickets until Penn station, and I had figured to take a cab from there.
Hearing the train would also stop at Newark, I talked with the train attendent (or how do you call the guys that check the tickets). He must have been the largest man I've ever seen. I explained how and what and if we could stay on until Newark, and he said sure no problem, wrote something on our tickets and that was that.

Overall a very good experience. We had booked the train tickets in advance while still at home through the internet (which wasn't that common yet in '98). Everything worked out great.

Looking back at it, we should have booked a direct flight back from Boston , but hey we got a _very_ good price on the flights Brussels-NYC and back.

First time we flew with our son was when he could barely walk. We didn't take the car seat (never heard about that before, but it sure makes sense). Think it was Transavia (Dutch charter). Stroller was going in first and was ready at the stairs when we arrived. We could go in the plane first on both flights because of the little fellow and the attendants were friendly and helpful.

When we visited the US again in 2006 he was with us (age 4) and we flew NorthWest and we didn't have any special treatment. It was OK though, except for the automated checking in at Boston airport which we were "kindly" helped with by some attendent who simply swiped our tickets. Result: we had three separate seats scattered throughout the plane ! Very smart with a 4 year old kid....

Had to ask at the gate if they could rearrange seating for us and the fact that the guy helping me actually turned out to be a Dutchman helped a bit

[Hoopz]

My wife's youngest sister is at Florida State for school while her family lives in Indiana.  She's been home twice this year and had a lot of difficulty returning to school because of airlines pulling their BS.

I've often suggested the bus as a joke.  I actually considered mentioning trains but haven't yet. 

I have a friend who is an Engineer (not train engineer though) who works for a company that produces "stuff" (no idea what) that train companies use.  He said since gas prices spiked his company has seen business go up dramatically.  It's going to be interesting to see if this continues now that gas prices have fallen (somewhat). 

Hell, a lot of people go from Indy to Chicago via train to see the Cubs play (other reasons too I am sure).  I definitely see room for growth here. 

[Kevin Mullins]

Ok, so I just can't resist posting responses we've recieved so far...... I'm usually not a "ranter".

I also want to note that United's response was NOT made in direct response to her personal e-mail which she sent to them directly. They only responded after the BBB sent their little message to them which was made through a totally separate e-mail account, not her home/personal account in which she used to write United directly.

BBB's message to United:

Subject: BBB Complaint Case#XXXXXXXX(Ref#XX-XXXX-XXXXXXXX-X-XXX)
Complaint Case #: XXXXXXXX
Consumer: (I removed)
The BBB has received the above-referenced complaint from a consumer. The details of the consumer's concerns are available by clicking HYPERLINK "http://www.chicago.bbb.org/complaint/view/blahblahblah"here. Please review this matter and advise us of your position.
Complaint Case #: XXXXXXXX
Consumer: (I removed)
Case Opened: 2009-01-29
The Bureau takes no position as to the validity of the complaint. Our goal is to help you and the consumer resolve this issue in a mutually satisfactory manner. In the interest of time and good customer relations, please respond to the BBB by February 9, 2009. Your prompt response greatly enhances the chance for a successful resolution.
As this complaint progresses, you may also consider using BBB alternative dispute resolution services such as binding arbitration. For more details about arbitration, please visit: www.chicago.bbb.org/ADRrules
We encourage you to use our ONLINE COMPLAINT system to respond to this complaint. Please do
not reply to this e-mail as this is a general e-mail address, please use the ONLINE COMPLAINT system. Clicking HYPERLINK "http://www.chicago.bbb.org/complaint/view/blahblahblah"here will take you directly to this complaint and you will be able to enter your response directly on our website. Be advised that there may be an attached scanned document that you need to open in order to view the complaint. If the above link does not work for you, please copy and paste this URL into your browser:
http://www.chicago.bbb.org/complaint/view/blahblahblah
We look forward to your prompt attention to this matter.

Sincerely,
Lillian L. Allen
Dispute Resolution Specialist - Personal Services
lallen@chicago.bbb.org

United's response to us:

Dear Ms. (I removed),
The Better Business Bureau has forwarded your concerns to me at United Airlines Customer Relations for response.  I regret your disappointment with United regarding your experience on your recent trip.
Ms. (I removed), I understand from your report that you are disappointed because you did not get assistance from the Customer Services Representatives or the crew members when you were traveling with your two year old daughter.  I am sorry that you had a poor impression of United's ability to serve you.  Our employees should provide professional service.   Our staff has the training and ability to do a far better job than your comments indicate.  It is our intent to employ persons that have the qualities to provide excellent customer service, even when under stress or time pressure.  However, you report that our Customer Services Staff let you down, which resulted in your disappointment with our service.  So your report is of concern to us.  Your comments have been shared with management responsible for our Customer Services so they can follow up with our employees who need to understand how this experience felt from your point of view.  We appreciate your candid feedback very much as this allows us to share your experiences and to learn from them.
 
Please give us an opportunity to provide you the service you expect from United Airlines.
Regards,
Amit Singh
United Airlines Customer Relations
In order to serve you better, we would like to collect your feedback on your experience with us today. Please click on the link below to access our short survey. Use the password ILS
<https://www.intelliscaninc.net/united/>
In the survey, you will be asked for a Ref #.  That number can be found at the end of the subject line of this email.
This message is intended only for the use of the Addressee and may contain information that is PRIVATE and CONFIDENTIAL. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this communication in error, please erase all copies of the message and its attachments and notify the sender immediately.  Thank you.

And of course after reading United's response she promptly started compiling her own response to them (still in the works):

Dear Mr. Singh,
How would I give you another opportunity to provide the service I expect from United Airlines without ever giving you another dime of my money? I do not give money to businesses who treat their customers so poorly- at least not a second time.
How can you rectify the situation or reprimand the employee's responsible without knowing where and when the specific incidents took place? What about the issue that your poor customer service occurred in more than one airport, with multiple members of your staff on two separate occasions? This sounds like a bunch of lip service and platitudes to quiet another dissatisfied customer. Your generic response to my specific situation is once again lacking in both common sense and humanity, status quo for all of my recent experiences with United.

Anyways...... I know some may think that's a lot of BS to read, but we've just gotten tired of shelling out money and then have to sit idle by and try to justify why it was we just spent it.... for what? To be treated like what? Why don't they just buy a few C-5's then they could pack people and baggage galore in there and then drop them out on the way by their destination. That's about the extent of "customer service" you seem to get anyways.
 

[shardian]

Considering the name is Amit Singh, I would guess your 'CS representative' is some outsourced india fellow who is randomly cut/pasting platitudes meant to appease you.

[Dartful Dodger]

If you work for United Airlines you're just counting the days before you're laid off.

Customer service isn't your priority.

[Kevin Mullins]

If you work for United Airlines you're just counting the days before you're laid off.
Customer service isn't your priority.

Understood ....... but no excuse for an employee to be a jackass.
They're still currently getting paid aren't they?
(um, WE just payed part of their salary along with every other passenger)
So would it be expected that those people carry forward that same attitude at a new job?

[RayB]

Blah BLAH BLAH Blah Blah

Back  few decades ago flying was a LUXURY, and you paid a luxury price for it. You got service in return for that price. Today, fuel prices are high, and flight tickets relatively LOW. Flying is basically taking a BUS with wings. You don't get any extra service riding a bus, so expectations should be scaled accordingly when flying.

[ark_ader]

In December I went back to the States to get my dog from the US to the UK via PETS.   I flew out on BMI (the only PETS carrier for Manchester UK) three hours late as they forgot to hanger the plane overnight and the de-icing took three hours (two refills) before take off.  Nice uneventful flight to Chicago.

United Airlines flew me to Las Vegas without a hitch, even though I missed my connecting flight, I was treated like royalty.  Nice seats, great customer service until I boarded the plane.

The Air hostess was like 60 years old and from the look of her raised 12 kids.  She ruled the skies when we took off.  No messing about, no complaining and if you did you got the look of death.  No FBI threats just the look of death.  Well it was enough as I had no change - nor did she.

Safe to say I won't be traveling on United any time soon, as the return BMI flight was direct (for my doggy's comfort).

Great flight though - the four hours sailed past, but that woman scared the poop out of me and most of the plane  would have agreed too. 

If you are thinking of sending your doggy via PETS - take this advice - unless its an heir to a fortune - its cheaper to buy a new one at the other end, unless you are a softy like me. 

[Kevin Mullins]

Blah BLAH BLAH Blah Blah

You don't get any extra service riding a bus, so expectations should be scaled accordingly when flying.

Everyones definition of "expectations" can greatly vary.
This isn't a matter of "special services" or "special treatment"....... it's simply a matter common courtesy, lending someone a hand with a bag, giving someone enough of your attention to help them along their way even if it's just simple instructions, a smile once in awhile doesn't hurt either.

Here's a scenario:
A little old lady comes walking out of the grocery store with her hands full, obviously having a difficult time managing what she has:

Do you....
A. Step aside and watch the show.
B. Offer some form of actual physical assistance.
C. Knock her down so you can get on in the store yourself.

What would you want someone to do for you?
That's the sort of thing is what makes a difference.
   

[Dartful Dodger]

Understood ....... but no excuse for an employee to be a jackass.
They're still currently getting paid aren't they?

Understood...... but...

Even if they're being jackasses, they're still getting paid aren't they?

One of our clients was bought by a European company.  Right after the purchase 60% of their employees were fired.  Every other week(pay day) another handful of people are let go.  We still have projects with them but no one in the American offices knows or cares about the projects I’m still working on.  

They're all going to get fired and they know it, so they spend their time looking for other jobs, or surfing the internet.

One of you bastages reading this post probably has several eps logo requests from me sent every other day beginning a week ago sitting in your inbox.(I’ve even CCd your boss with the request, but your boss is as unconcerned about it as you are)

I’m assuming American Airlines employees are feeling the same way about their job.

[Hoopz]

(c'mon, had to lighten up this thread somehow)

I'll try too.  

Can you fit in one seat or do they make you buy two?  

j/k as that seems to be your way of being rude without taking responsibility.

It takes only a little effort and time to go from being a crappy employee to offering good service to someone who needs it.  Your girlfriend should have been treated slightly different from the beginning and it would have made a world of difference.  Instead they compounded it and make it much, much worse.

[Kevin Mullins]

Understood ....... but no excuse for an employee to be a jackass.
They're still currently getting paid aren't they?

Understood...... but...

Even if they're being jackasses, they're still getting paid aren't they?

I understand human nature quite well.....and it's easy for people to get that way over a job.
But it boils down to the individual.
I've had jobs that I absolutely could not stand the upper management tactics, or their desire to make the almighty dollar. I personally will not hesitate to rip a General Manager, an Officer above me, or any other member of "the team" if they insist on treating people like a number. And regardless of job happiness or what position I may personally be in, I refuuuuuse to treat any customer, client, or anyone else "outside the box" with anything but respect.

When we walked up to the "Customer Service" counter and all the guy can do is point to the automated kiosks......while him and three other employees hang-out behind the counter, well, then you already failed. And there was only one other customer there at the time. And this is the same guy and group of employees that when asked about the gate pass so that I may assist her to the gate that says "we don't issue passes for that", so I ask "who does?", his initial response was "the airline does"........when I give him the WTF!! look he decides to change his tune and go into some FAA spiel which pretty much explained absolutely nothing.
Which is when the TSA fellas kicked in and gave her a hand, since "I wasn't allowed to" and the airline obviously wasn't going to.
Now I don't know about some peoples opinions, but first impressions can be a ---smurfette---.

Your girlfriend should have been treated slightly different from the beginning and it would have made a world of difference.  Instead they compounded it and make it much, much worse.

I agree, and if this had been a one time, sorry it happened situation then so be it.
But it wasn't. It happens more and more each time.
Her and her family have been "flyers" for a loooong time.  (not so much myself)

I've used United merely as a direct example of recent events, but the sad truth is we see it more and more often everywhere you go.

[Kevin Mullins]

(c'mon, had to lighten up this thread somehow)

Humor is a good thing..... don't mind it at all.

Everyone besides me is just a wanker anyways. 

[RayB]

I'm sure unions have a role in the crappy service too.

[mpm32]

I just flew back from Vail last night.  Piss poor attitudes from the check-in people, the gate reps and the stews.

I always sing this on the plane - good thing I never need anything from them;

[Dartful Dodger]

You know we've hit hard times when the people answering the phones in India are losing their jobs.

[Kevin Mullins]

It's not hard times that causes that, it's corporate ploy to save money without having to directly relate to the customers. It's a company falling apart and trying to save it's ass.

United spokeswoman Robin Urbanski said the airline is able to respond better to customers who write, since they often include more detail, making it possible to provide a more specific response.

"We did a lot of research, we looked into it, and people who e-mail or write us are more satisfied with our responses," she said.

What a crock ...... what it means is they can teach other employees to copy and paste responses and not have to actually deal directly with an irate customer.
Look again at the response they gave us..... satisfied absolutely nothing.
Hell, they didn't even respond to our e-mail, they responded to the BBB's e-mail.

[Ed_McCarron]

Southwest - potshot.  Flying to Florida?  "No, you can't preboard with an infant and a carseat, even though you paid for an extra seat."  I smacked half the plane in the head with that carseat getting it down the aisle.  Called the attendant that told me I couldn't preboard a ---smurfette--- when she asked me to be more careful because people were complaining.  The main attendant apologized to me and told me that preboarding is up to the various attendants and the one I talked to must've been having a bad day.

Flying home?  No probs.  Let us on first and had no problems.

[Kevin Mullins]

Perfect example of what we have been complaining about.   

It's not a matter of "special treatment" or anything like that...i.e. pre-boarding... but common sense under certain situations goes a loooong way.

[danny_galaga]

Blah BLAH BLAH Blah Blah

You don't get any extra service riding a bus, so expectations should be scaled accordingly when flying.

Everyones definition of "expectations" can greatly vary.
This isn't a matter of "special services" or "special treatment"....... it's simply a matter common courtesy, lending someone a hand with a bag, giving someone enough of your attention to help them along their way even if it's just simple instructions, a smile once in awhile doesn't hurt either.

Here's a scenario:
A little old lady comes walking out of the grocery store with her hands full, obviously having a difficult time managing what she has:

Do you....
A. Step aside and watch the show.
B. Offer some form of actual physical assistance.
C. Knock her down so you can get on in the store yourself.

What would you want someone to do for you?
That's the sort of thing is what makes a difference.
   

WWJD? 

[Kevin Mullins]

WWJD? 

Honestly..... I had to google that ..... 

[Ed_McCarron]

WWJD? 

Honestly..... I had to google that ..... 

What Would JackTucky Do?