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Author Topic: Defender Resto 1,367  (Read 12336 times)

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beerbarrel

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Defender Resto 1,367
« on: September 10, 2008, 11:24:05 am »
I got this guy and all was well. I knew that it worked well but it had a coat of black paint. So I get it home and it's sitting in the garage with me. The machine starts talking to me. The more beer I drink the more it talks. It says "Start working on me". Anyway, I'm looking at the black paint and notice that it has some rather large decals under it. The first thing that I start to think is that it might not be an OE Defender cab. I start scraping away at the paint and find out that the decal are some big baseball player stickers. I get a hold of the edge of the sticker and pull. It comes off in one giant piece. Low and behold guess what?




Nearly perfect side art under that sticker. The cab had a black paint job and stickers applied. I guess they did not like the decals and put on another coat of black. I'm going to see how much of the paint that I can get off and try to save the art.

Tracy

ChadTower

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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2008, 11:28:56 am »

Good stroke of luck!  That happens a lot, actually.  If you're careful you should be able to save most if not all of the art.

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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2008, 11:33:26 am »
So I'm hunting 4164's to replace the 4116's. I remember that I have this old motherboard out of some piece of equipment in the attic. I know that it is eighties vintage so off to the attic to look at it. I get it down and find out that it has 8, 4164 chips on it. I'm bummed. I figure I'll just go buy some. I start reading up on the Williams memory hack and one that I find says that I can use 41256 chips. That gets me thinking again. Off to look at the MB again. This time I hit the jackpot.



That big bank of chips are 41256-12's. I think that I have solved my memory problem!

Tracy

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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2008, 11:34:22 am »

Good stroke of luck!  That happens a lot, actually.  If you're careful you should be able to save most if not all of the art.

I hope that if I can't save it I can make a stencil.

Tracy

ChadTower

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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2008, 11:38:38 am »

You can buy a stencil if you can't make one. 

beerbarrel

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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2008, 11:41:28 am »
Yeah, I found the stencils online. I think they were 85 dollars. That is my backup plan. I'm going to go to Home Depot and get some paint stripper. The balck is so thick that I think if I put it on lightly I can get enough paint off to make a stencil or maybe even save the art. I gotta save where I can.

Tracy

ChadTower

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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2008, 11:42:46 am »

You could go halfway... download the Defender AI files, print out each layer, and make your own stencils.

beerbarrel

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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2008, 11:47:34 am »

You could go halfway... download the Defender AI files, print out each layer, and make your own stencils.

Could you explain that to me in a little more detail? What are AI files and do I need to print them at office depot or something? I'm assuming that they are large?

Tracy

ChadTower

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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2008, 11:55:08 am »

AI - Adobe Illustrator.  They are the vectorized art files you could use to print vinyl sideart... or a new stencil, if you wanted.  You could get full size stencils done at Office Depot or a sign shop or you could print it in 8.5x11 sections yourself and do the stencils that way.

Or you could just mask the existing art off with tape and repaint it that way.  That would be the cheapest overall method.

beerbarrel

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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2008, 11:58:52 am »
Thanks Chad....I think that I might get my own stencils done. We have some of those big wide printers at work that I will bet could handle the job. I'm going to check with those guys and see.




AI - Adobe Illustrator.  They are the vectorized art files you could use to print vinyl sideart... or a new stencil, if you wanted.  You could get full size stencils done at Office Depot or a sign shop or you could print it in 8.5x11 sections yourself and do the stencils that way.

Or you could just mask the existing art off with tape and repaint it that way.  That would be the cheapest overall method.

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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2008, 12:29:52 pm »
I'm wondering if there's a good/easy way to match the paint colors used on Defender. My own Defender has artwork in quite good condition, but I'd like to touch it up or perhaps even completely repaint to make it fresh. Only problem is I can't exactly carry my cab into Home Depot to have them color match it.

Although perhaps I can take off the front panel and have them color match off of that - I might have to see how removable it is. Does anyone have a better idea?
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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2008, 12:32:32 pm »
Good question Shanman...I could have sworn I was reading thru a thread where they told what paints the used.

Tracy

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Molex connectors
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2008, 12:33:43 pm »
Where do u buy Molex connector kits and crimpers? Do you buy different lengths on a one by one basis or do they make a kit?

Tracy

ChadTower

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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2008, 01:29:11 pm »

A quick search on RGVAC shows this:

Quote
Off-the shelf colors, near perfect match:

Krylon Red Pepper
Krylon Sun Yellow
Gloss black

I crosschecked that against what are commonly used for Black Knight, which I have myself.  Also a Williams game, made in the same year, same color scheme on the cabinet.  Same colors are often used for that game too.

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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2008, 02:07:10 pm »

That big bank of chips are 41256-12's. I think that I have solved my memory problem!


Very fortunate.  The 41256 are pin compatible with the 4164, right?

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Re: Molex connectors
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2008, 02:09:42 pm »
Is this part of your restoration thread?  If so I'll merge it; if not I'll move it.

You can get Molex (with a capital M) connectors from Mouser.  You can even download the specs right off their site.  Pins available there as well. 

Are you looking for something in particular?

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Re: Molex connectors
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2008, 02:16:20 pm »
I guess in a way it is part of thes resto thread. My Defender was converted to a switcher. I have the linear supply and want to put it back in after a rebuild. The oe connector was cut off to hook the wires to the switcher. I asked the question in general because I thought the other folks doing restos might need Molex connectors too. I do not know if you have to buy then on a piece mill basis or kits are available to make your own.


Tracy

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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2008, 02:17:18 pm »

That big bank of chips are 41256-12's. I think that I have solved my memory problem!


Very fortunate.  The 41256 are pin compatible with the 4164, right?


From what I read yes they are...just larger memory. I'll find the link and post it here.

Tracy

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Re: Molex connectors
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2008, 02:18:58 pm »

It's all kits - you buy connectors and pins and assemble your own harnesses.

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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2008, 02:26:14 pm »
Sorry Peale, they are not pin for pin. They have to be handled just like 4164's as far as I can tell.

Tracy



That big bank of chips are 41256-12's. I think that I have solved my memory problem!


Very fortunate.  The 41256 are pin compatible with the 4164, right?

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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2008, 02:37:00 pm »
Here is a newsgroup post but I saw an easier way somewhere. I'm still looking.

Tracy


If you want to modify a 41256 to work as a 4116, here's how to do it:

1.  Jumper pin 1 to pin 16.
2.  Clip off pin 1.
3.  Jumper pin 8 to pin 9.
4.  Clip off pin 8.


You are now ready to drop this chip into a socket or board location that's
meant to work with a 4116.  No board modifications are necessary.


I have tried this already with several _Missile Command_ boards and it works
just fine.  I've found it best to replace all of the original 4116 RAM chips
at the same time; if one original has failed, chances are the others are not
far behind and it's time to replace them all.


Defend cities!


Matt J. McCullar
Arlington, TX



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Re: Molex connectors
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2008, 02:42:31 pm »
You can buy them piecemeal too.  It's easier to buy a kit from someone like Bob Roberts, but I'm not sure it's cheaper without looking.

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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2008, 02:43:56 pm »
Sorry Peale, they are not pin for pin. They have to be handled just like 4164's as far as I can tell.

I mean pin for pin with the 4164, not the 4116.  I know you can't just pop a 4164 in one without cooking it.

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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2008, 02:51:49 pm »
You can also get 25 4164's for $12 shipped from a guy over in the klov forums (I just paid for mine yesterday), and then use peale's power supply adapter. Not terribly expensive. http://forums.klov.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=876481&an=0&page=1#Post876481

As far as the PS connectors, I have to do the same thing. Bob Roberts has a complete PS connector kit (3 connectors) for $2.50. I would have gotten it from him if I realized in time that I have the same problem with the wires being cut to hook up to a switcher. I'll probably end up getting it from mouser if there's other stuff I decide I need from there, otherwise I'll order it from Bob.



EDIT: just to be clear: the 4164's are a very limited supply, so if you think you want to go that direction, decide and act now!
« Last Edit: September 10, 2008, 03:44:00 pm by TheShanMan »
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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2008, 02:53:18 pm »

A quick search on RGVAC shows this:

Quote
Off-the shelf colors, near perfect match:

Krylon Red Pepper
Krylon Sun Yellow
Gloss black

I crosschecked that against what are commonly used for Black Knight, which I have myself.  Also a Williams game, made in the same year, same color scheme on the cabinet.  Same colors are often used for that game too.

That's great Chad. Thanks!
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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2008, 03:01:30 pm »
Peale,

I think there might be one more step involved to use 41256. I found this link that you might have a look at.

http://web.archive.org/web/20041012022540/http://ozborn.home.netcom.com/hacks/JustSayNoTo4116.html


Sorry Peale, they are not pin for pin. They have to be handled just like 4164's as far as I can tell.

I mean pin for pin with the 4164, not the 4116.  I know you can't just pop a 4164 in one without cooking it. Try this one...
http://scoresaves.com/documents/JustSayNoTo4116.html
« Last Edit: September 11, 2008, 01:44:16 am by beerbarrel »

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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2008, 10:35:40 pm »
Are the pics missing from the link above for you guys as well ?

I need to start thinking about doing this mod to my Stargate.
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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2008, 10:41:29 pm »
Yes they were missing. That was an old view of the website. I did find it with the pics the other day but cannot find it now. I jumpered a chip to see how it would come out following the instructions. I'll post a pic in a few.

Tracy

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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2008, 10:53:04 pm »
I soldered some very fine wire across the bottom of the chip between the front set and last set of pins. I will clip 2 of those pins later. The area that looks like a solder blob is actually the pin bent slightly inward. I did not get the one wire as tight as I wanted but it will work.

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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2008, 10:55:32 pm »
It was easy to do in case you were wondering. I just made what was something that looked like the twist tie that you would put on a loaf of bread. I twisted until tight across the base of the pins and then tacked it real quick. It takes about 5 minutes a chip.

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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2008, 11:08:17 pm »
That's a lot of work; why didn't you just mod the board or build an adapter?

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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2008, 11:15:17 pm »
I thought about it. I figured that I had the chips why not go ahead and do it. I did not really want to mod the board. I was not sure if the adapter would work with the chips I was using.

Tracy

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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2008, 11:25:23 pm »
Peale's adapter requires no board modification, and like I said the 4164's can be had pretty cheap over on that klov thread (while supplies last), if you decide you don't want to continue modifying those chips. Personally I don't think it's worth the time but there are plenty of things I do that others would say "it's not worth your time" so to each his own. :)
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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2008, 11:31:43 pm »
Either method is functionally proper.... but I would rather just modify the board as it seems to be a very minor mod that way any further replacements are just drop in. (I know, the harness adapter would make them drop in as well)

But without the pics then that would mean I would actually have to do some schematic tracing to do the board mod, which involves thinking.
 :laugh2:
Actually shouldn't be all that hard to figure out. It's just rerouting voltage is all.
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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2008, 11:32:39 pm »
Oh, I know about the doing things issue. I guess I just did it because I had the stuff. The adapter is very inexpensive but it was just one of those things. I looked at KLOV earlier. I wasn't sure he would have chips left either. It looked like they went quick. Yep, it was probably dumb....but it was fun! :cheers:

Tracy

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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2008, 11:34:20 pm »
I printed the pics the other day Kevin. If I can't find the right site I will scan them for you.

Tracy


Either method is functionally proper.... but I would rather just modify the board as it seems to be a very minor mod that way any further replacements are just drop in. (I know, the harness adapter would make them drop in as well)

But without the pics then that would mean I would actually have to do some schematic tracing to do the board mod, which involves thinking.
 :laugh2:
Actually shouldn't be all that hard to figure out. It's just rerouting voltage is all.

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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2008, 01:45:01 am »
Try this Kevin...

http://scoresaves.com/documents/JustSayNoTo4116.html


Either method is functionally proper.... but I would rather just modify the board as it seems to be a very minor mod that way any further replacements are just drop in. (I know, the harness adapter would make them drop in as well)

But without the pics then that would mean I would actually have to do some schematic tracing to do the board mod, which involves thinking.
 :laugh2:
Actually shouldn't be all that hard to figure out. It's just rerouting voltage is all.

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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2008, 11:24:09 am »
Try this Kevin...

http://scoresaves.com/documents/JustSayNoTo4116.html


Awesome !
And I'm sure others could use that info as well.
Thanks.
Not a technician . . . . just a DIY'er.

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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #38 on: September 16, 2008, 04:24:28 pm »
Welp, I spent a couple of hours with a razor blade and I've gone from solid black to what resembles a Defender pic. I could probably make my own stencils from what I have here but it might be tons easier just to spend the 85 dollars and get some stencils. It sure would be nice to make a set tha we could share with the community.

Tracy


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Re: Defender Resto 1,367
« Reply #39 on: September 16, 2008, 04:38:29 pm »
Welp, I spent a couple of hours with a razor blade and I've gone from solid black to what resembles a Defender pic. I could probably make my own stencils from what I have here but it might be tons easier just to spend the 85 dollars and get some stencils. It sure would be nice to make a set tha we could share with the community.

Tracy

Heck... that looks good!  I wouldn't even mess with it... keep using the razor blade.  Stencils are already out there for Defender anyway.

http://www.oleszakcreative.com/store/shop/item.asp?itemid=114

 :cheers:
Happy Gaming!