Encoder Help - IPAC/Keywiz + LedWiz...how many?

[deepblue]

Hi Guys,

I've got a cabinet project underway (my project thread is here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=79019.0), and despite my best searching and tremendous amount of reading I don't have full confidence that I understand what's needed to wire up my control panel the way I want it.

Probably easiest if I show a mockup of the panel, and then explain what I'm trying to do. Here's the (rough) mockup...:

Actual Size image here: http://www.repeater.ca/images/ControlPanelFinal.jpg
(not fully to scale, distances and orientation of objects are just approximate and rough for now)

After a LOT of reading, stewing and discussion, I've decided to use the following for the panel:
- 24 x Novagem Lightable Horizontal Pushbuttons w/ Microswitch
- 1 x Player 1 Pushbutton w/ Microswitch
- 1 x Player 2 Pushbutton w/ Microswitch
- 1 x Player 3 Pushbutton w/ Microswitch
- 1 x Player 4 Pushbutton w/ Microswitch
- 3 x Generic Pushbutton w/ Microswith (accessory buttons for shift, volume control)
- 4 x Happ Competition Joysticks
- 1 x ElectricICE Illuminated Trackball
- 1 x TurboTwist2 Spinner

So - with the above, I believe I can eliminate the Spinner and Trackball from the encoder equation, as I understand they are all-in-one units with USB cables, which leaves everything else - 24 Illuminated Pushbuttons and 7 Generic Pushbuttons + 4 8-way Joysticks.

My question is this: How many IPACs or Keywiz devices do I need for the above, and how many LEDWiz modules? What I'm not clear on is the LEDWiz - it says it is an "output controller" and "game controller"...does this mean it can handle some of the functionality that the IPAC/KeyWiz normally does, or is this a totally separate thing?

I guess once I have that answered, I really just want to understand how many output connections each button or joystick occupies, and how having LED's affects this. Once I understand this, I just need a lesson on how I need to power this arrangement.

I've tried to find a comprehensive tutorial on the above, but haven't had success...so any help from the experts here would be appreciated.

Thanks!

PS - the only thing I still have second thoughts on are the joysticks...part of me still wants a ball-top joystick, but I want something that will work well for all game types. Any advice here would be great!

[deepblue]

bump? any help...please? 

[TheShanMan]

An IPAC4 would cover the inputs, and I haven't done any LED stuff so I'm not very familiar with LEDWiz, but I doubt it can handle inputs.

BTW, those joysticks will NOT "work well for all game types". They will be bad for 4 way games (many of the classics like donkey kong, pacman), 49 way games (like road runner), analog games (like paperboy, star wars), tron, any game that makes use of a rotating handle (like heavy barrel). Perhaps you don't care about all those games but since you appear to be new here I don't want you to be disappointed later if you haven't already learned about these distinctions.

[deepblue]

Thanks TheShanMan - yes, I'm certainly "new", but like many others I'm trying to read, read, read as much as I can to learn before making costly mistakes!

Since posting I've been looking at a nice shiny set of Ultimarc Ultrastik Ball-tops. From what I've read they are very versatile, and can supplement for some IPAC4 inputs.

I guess putting these in the mix just complicated matters more, as putting 2 of these in will handle 8 button inputs a piece (for a total of 16), but then I guess I will still need to LEDWiz the buttons on top of this. Would I be safe getting 2 Ultrastiks and 2 Competitions (considering the P3 and P4 won't be used as frequently, and don't have the same demands from a versatility perspective)?

Can the Novagem buttons be controlled by the Ultrastick?

Thanks again for the input.

[divemaster127]

yes, you need the ipac4 I carry the ultimarc lines & happ lines here on the forums, if you need a quote send me a pm & i can get you one, also my prices are posted in the buy/sell thread
thanks
dm

[Neverending Project]

Perhaps some basics will help:
A pushbutton is simply a microswitch. A microswitch has two leads - one connected to a keyboard encoder, and the other is connected together with all the common leads. Therefore, a microswitch takes one input on a keyboard encoder.
An 8-way joystick is simply 4 microswitches, and hence takes 4 inputs on a keyboard encoder.
A lighted pushbutton has an LED in addition to the microswitch. The LED will need to be connected to an LED controller if you want to turn it on and off via software, and like the microswitch will require 1 input per LED.
You are correct in that the UltraStick 360 is a USB device, as are (most likely) the spinner and trackball. These will not require a keyboard encoder input, but may require one or more LED controller inputs.

Now, the most commonly used controllers are from two vendors: Ultimarc and GroovyGameGear. They each offer keyboard encoders, each have an LED controller, and they each offer lighted pushbuttons, spinners and lighted trackballs. Here is a basic comparison of the number of inputs:

	Ultimarc	GGG
Keyboard Encoder	56 (I-Pac4)	32 (Key-Wiz)
LED Controller	16 (Pac-Drive)	32 (LED-Wiz)

You can daisy-chain the above devices to double the number of inputs (or more, if needed). Note, GGG also offers a combined game pad encoder/LED controller with 16 inputs of each. The difference between the game pad controller and the keyboard encoder is the gamepad controller sends the button presses as joystick buttons, and the keyboard encoder sends the button presses as keyboard input. MAME can be configured for either.

So all that being said, looking at your sketch it appears that you will need 47 microswitch inputs (39 if you replace two 8-way joysticks with 2 U360s), and 27 LED inputs (you list 24 novagems, plus 3 for the LED).

There is lots of information on this site about the difference between the controllers, and you are free to mix and match. You may find, for example, that the I-PAC4 works great for your buttons, and the LED-Wiz works well for your LED controlling.

And on a final note, you can combine a lot of the functionality of your "admin" buttons, leaving you with fewer needed buttons on your CP, and hence fewer needed keyboard controller inputs. It is a personal preference, and you can find scores of posts here about what buttons people like to leave on their CPs as well.

[deepblue]

@ Neverending Project: Thank you!! This clarifies a great deal of what I was asking about....

Just a couple of follow ups:

- When you mention the GGG "combined" product for LED and Gamepad, I'm assuming you meant the LED-Wiz+GP (http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=306). Personal preference aside, is there any disadvantage to using gamepad contols for buttons instead of keyboard? Do you solder the gamepad connections to this LED-Wiz+GP (I don't see any screw downs for the gamepad controls)

- Does anyone know how many connections on the LED-Wiz the ICE-T lighted trackball needs?

It looks like the most sensible configuration given the information I've received (and assuming I go with 2 Ultrastiks + 2 competitions (or other less expensive option)):

- 1 LED-Wiz (That accepts 32 Inputs)
- 1 IPAC4 (accepting 56 inputs)

The above would seem to cover my needs plus also leave me with options to use the IPAC4 exclusively for buttons or split up input functionality between the IPAC4 and UltaStik.

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

[Stub]

For the Ice ball and any full color led, you need 3 channels, on red one blue one green.

My CP will have 52 rgb LEDs. 156 channels 5 LED-Wiz. It has grown a life of its own...

[deepblue]

My CP will have 52 rgb LEDs. 156 channels 5 LED-Wiz. It has grown a life of its own...

Great Odin's Wrath!

Wow, that's quite a complex (and expensive) setup! I'm assuming the Novagems are fine with the one given they are color specific. Thanks for the info on the Trackball!