My First Pin - Flight 2000 (Pics)

[Neverending Project]

I just picked up my first pin (Can you guess which game?), and now I am officially in way over my head.

I will get some pics posted tonight, hopefully. Basically, the PF is worn in the middle, the backglass is in good shape with some small areas of paint cracking, and it is partially working. If it turns out to be something I really enjoy, I may get the PF repro from classicplayfields.com.

I haven't done much more than unload it into my garage, so I will be taking a closer look soon.

Now I have yet another reason to stall/procrastinate from working on my MAME cab conversion!

[ChadTower]

If you like working on it, consider buying the playfield for later swapping, but don't even think about thinking about doing the swap.  If you're in over your head now that's jumping off a bridge.

First thing you do is go over to marvin3m.com and read the repair guide on that pin.  Then read it again.  Check the fuses, if they're all proper power it up, and then read the guide a third time.

[ChadTower]

Myself and others have had some terrible luck with CPR products.  CPR has been generous with replacements but that's just FYI...

I haven't seen one of their products in person yet that wasn't really, really good.

[ChadTower]

That's not in person.  Plus it's a plastic and he's talking about a playfield.  Entirely different concepts.  Plastics do break, and they addressed their initial choice of material by changing to a stronger one when people reported plastics issues.

[ChadTower]

I have played one of their Centaur repros quite a few times... seems to be holding up quite nicely.  I haven't installed any of their stuff myself.

[Neverending Project]

If you like working on it, consider buying the playfield for later swapping, but don't even think about thinking about doing the swap.  If you're in over your head now that's jumping off a bridge.

First thing you do is go over to marvin3m.com and read the repair guide on that pin.  Then read it again.  Check the fuses, if they're all proper power it up, and then read the guide a third time.

I have read the beginning section (Before Turning the Game On) twice. I am reading it again now.

[shardian]

Ah jeez, man, just go plug the damn thing in. 

I agree. How are you ever going to learn anything if you don't blow some stuff up? You have to learn troubleshooting sometime, might as well be now!

[Neverending Project]

OK, well I haven't been entirely truthful.  We powered the game up when I picked it up, before I took the back box off. It comes on, searches for a ball (you can hear some solenoids), and then enters when I assume is attract mode. At least half the lights on the PF need replacing, and there is no sound. But I haven't even checked the fuses yet.

So on marvin3m, he suggests some repairs/upgrades "before turning the game on." On this model he suggests replacing all the header pins on the rectifier board, adding a couple of jumper wires to the MPU to add additional paths for a few lines, replacing the rectifier bridges with larger ones, replacing the caps on the on the solenoid driver board, and a bunch of other stuff.

I realize that he suggests these changes for the longevity of the machine, but should I wait and see where the problems are first, or should I go ahead and make the suggested changes right away?

[shardian]

Depends really. If the marvin3m guide is suggesting replacing connector pins, then acid damage is a possibility. If you inspect the connectors and see that the pins are flattened and corroded, then replacing them is your #1 priority.

[ChadTower]

I don't think you have to do marvin3m's longevity mods during the initial repair process.  You'll want to do them if the game is a keeper, or if you plan to sell it as restored, but just during your initial diagnostics don't worry about those.  Just make sure that there aren't any obviously blown coils and that all of the fuses are properly rated - sometimes stuff powers up just because the seller has way overfused the circuit to get it out the door.  If that happens and you keep the game on all that long it will do a lot more damage someplace.

[Neverending Project]

Depends really. If the marvin3m guide is suggesting replacing connector pins, then acid damage is a possibility. If you inspect the connectors and see that the pins are flattened and corroded, then replacing them is your #1 priority.

I don't think you have to do marvin3m's longevity mods during the initial repair process.  You'll want to do them if the game is a keeper, or if you plan to sell it as restored, but just during your initial diagnostics don't worry about those.  Just make sure that there aren't any obviously blown coils and that all of the fuses are properly rated - sometimes stuff powers up just because the seller has way overfused the circuit to get it out the door.  If that happens and you keep the game on all that long it will do a lot more damage someplace.

Thanks. Good advice!

I hope to get some trouble-shooting time in tonight. I'll keep you updated.

[CheffoJeffo]

Are you guys ever downers ! Dude just got his first pin!

NEP - congrats!

I am not as experienced in the pin world as the others, but I still remember the feeling of the first pin.

Make sure to get a copy of the manual -- then run the self-test and see what you are dealing with.

I thought I was in over my head originally (I may still be, but at least I am comfortable), but I took my time getting to know how things worked and what I could handle at the time (granted it was easy to do since my F2K is working ... except for one glitch). I have not yet done a playfield swap, but I no longer fear the process. There are some great resources, like Marvin's guides and the TOP videos. I also liked Bear Kamoroff's Pinball Machine Care and Maintenance and Rob Craig's Life After Death videos (not as detailed as they could be, but I like watching them).

I will agree with PBJ as to the resale value and replacing the playfield/backglass -- I am going to get the full package from CPR when available and am going to keep that machine forever. A friend of mine picked up the repro backglass and plastics for his F2K and was really happy with them.

[Neverending Project]

I had a chance to take a look tonight, and I think things are looking pretty good. The backglass is in great shape, the playfield is pretty worn. The plastics are in need of replacing, and the rubber is just plain missing in several places. The boards in the back box look next to new, which is a great sign. The high score battery (which I will remove) looks like there is no leakage, although there may have been a slight mod to the ground area on the MPU board (shown in pic below).

Other than that, the game powers on and the MPU flashes correctly (which means it passes its self test). There is no sound (more on that in a moment) so it is difficult to tell exactly what is going on, but I believe a game will start. About half the coils don't work (including both flippers), so they will need rebuilding or replacing. And about half the lights are out as well.

One wire to the speaker was cut, hence no sound. I would have spliced it to check the sound, but the same wire was previously cut and re-soldered further up the line. It makes me suspect a problem that someone might have cut the wire as an easy fix, and then a later owner fixed it, only to re-cut it when they discovered the same problem. I'll check out the sound soon enough.

The rectifier board does need to be rebuilt. It is the only board to show signs of burning and wear. But the voltages on the test points seem good when there is a load on the board (i.e. the game is on and the connectors are hooked up). Interestingly, one of the test points read a high voltage when the connectors to the solenoid driver board and playfield were disconnected. I would expect a higher voltage when there is no load on the board, but at marvin3m he suggests that you disconnect the connecters that I disconnected and then check the voltages. Of the voltages he lists for the test points, this one is high. Once you reconnect the connectors, it reads fine. I imagine when I rebuild the board it will look better.

Anyway, I am excited, and I do have a lot of work to do. Is it better to just replace faulty coils with new ones? Here are some pics...

Edit: Oh, and it came with the original manual, some brand new (original) coin inserts for 50-cent play, and a quarter in the coin box!

[ChadTower]

Dead coils isn't usually a coil problem - they don't go dead, they go short, and take other stuff with them.  That's usually a break in the circuit someplace or dead drivers.  Occasionally you'll see a single coil go dead because of a break in the thin wire going from the lug to the winding but that's fairly rare.  My experience is that when you see multiple coils dead the problem is almost always in the driver if it's not a connector problem.

My advice is that now that you've verified the fuses (right?) and powered it up, start examining every connector in the game.  Repin any that look suspect and replace the headers.  Odds are that will fix quite a few of the misc problems before you even find them -and it will definitely head off the type of problem you get from waking up an old pin that's been in storage for years.

[shardian]

Explain what you mean by "dead coils". A shorted coil would be visibly burned up, and the driver transistor will also be fried. If the coil simply don't work, then there is probably a disconnected or broken wire somewhere.

[ChadTower]

That game is probably too old to have a transistor matrix driving the coils.  Either the coils will be wired straight to their power sources or they will be driven by an IC (or a couple of them).

[shardian]

The flippers not working sounds like a tilt/slam tilt issue. That would also explain the game shutting down immediately.
I'm not familiar with Stern games, but you might want to check the section on possible tilt issues.

[shardian]

That game is probably too old to have a transistor matrix driving the coils.  Either the coils will be wired straight to their power sources or they will be driven by an IC (or a couple of them).

 

No.


Anyway, flippers on that game are controlled by a relay.  The first step would be to jump the relay and see if you get flipper power.  That will eliminate power and wiring problems from the suspect list. 

Yeah, I didn't get that either. On my pin, there is a game over relay and a tilt relay. The tilt relay will kill power to all of the non-cpu controlled coils, which includes the flipper coils. It also kills GI lighting.
Which brings me to my next evidence - you said "about half the lights on the PF need replacing". Are you sure? You might have a stuck tilt switch, thus killing power to those lights.

[Neverending Project]

The game does have a solenoid driver board, not a relay matrix controlling the coils. But there is a relay for the coils as pinballjim stated. I will check the relay. It is possible that either the coil has shorted, and hence the transistor could have fried.

I put the game into its test mode, where it fires the solenoids in succession one at a time. Since it will cycle through all the solenoids and some of them don't fire, I can assume the problem is not a stuck tilt or slam switch. Likewise for the PF lights.

Here is the section from marvin3m on testing a coil:

In order to check coil resistance, put your DMM on its lowest resistance setting. Then put the DMM's red and black leads on each coil's lugs. A resistance of 2.5 ohms or greater should be seen. Anything less than 2.5 ohms, and the coil and/or driving transistor may be bad. Now remove the wire from one of the lugs of the coil, and test the coil again. If the resistance is still the same (low), the coil or diode is bad (and also perhaps the driving transistor). If the resistance is higher than 2.5 ohms, the coil is good but the solenoid driver board transistor is shorted and will need to be replaced. Lastly, the coil's 1N4004 diode could be shorted too, giving a false low coil resistance. Cut one diode leg from a coil lug and retest the coil's ohms.

So I test the resistance of the coil and see around 2.5 Ohms. Great. Now assuming I remove one of the leads (they're soldered on) and test again, what should I see? He says if the resistance is the same the coil or diode is bad, and if the resistance is higher then the transistor is shorted. So what will a good coil look like?

Anyway, thanks for the help and encouragement. This is fun!

[Neverending Project]

Just a little lunchtime update for those following...

The Good
I reconnected the speaker and lo and behold, the sound works. The speech works too. I am not sure why it was cut, but obviously someone didn't want the machine to make any sound... I found some shorted switches in one of the drop target assemblies, so I moved the pin to fix those. I also found a disconnected wire on the outhole solenoid, so I reconnected it. When I powered up the machine, now the sound works, and the flippers do too, sort of...

The Bad
The flipper assemblies have both mechanical and electrical issues. They stick on, both mechanically and electrically. So they will need to be rebuilt, or replaced. All but one of the score displays "flickers". The numbers "roll" across the screen, so I will need to investigate further.

The Ugly
I had the game on for a few minutes trying to simulate gameplay by pressing some switches. That's when I noticed some smoke coming from the back of the PF. I quickly turned it off and unplugged the machine. At least one of the coils burned, as is evident by the charred paper wrap and the smoke coming from it. I am not entirely sure why, and I ran out of time to play with it.

So it is back to the beginning to check all the voltages past the rectifier. I am not sure why a fuse didn't blow. And yes, I did check that the correct fuse values were installed. Even the slo-blo under the playfield.

[JeepMonkey]

Congrats on getting your first pinball machine.  Unless this machine is a favorite I would use it as a learning tool and to get the "first machine itch" out of your system.

Did you make sure that there were no fuse holders that were missing fuses all together? 

[Neverending Project]

Check the fuses, if they're all proper power it up, and then read the guide a third time.

Just make sure that there aren't any obviously blown coils and that all of the fuses are properly rated - sometimes stuff powers up just because the seller has way overfused the circuit to get it out the door.  If that happens and you keep the game on all that long it will do a lot more damage someplace.

I would like to start this post by saying, for the record, that I did check the fuses, and I checked that they were properly rated. But I suppose I didn't check them close enough. What I thought was a 1-Amp slow-blow under the playfield was in fact a 10-Amp slow-blow fuse. I didn't noticed until I pulled out the fuse a second time (after two dead coils) and looked at in in bright daylight. The first time I looked at the fuse was in my garage, and most likely late at night and not so well lit. The "0" was very hard to read, and practically invisible in medium-low light.

So I just wanted to say thanks again for the advice... it is definitely very important. Now on to practice some solder skills to fix those blown transistors...

[Neverending Project]

A shorted coil will blow a 10A fuse just as quickly as it will blow a 1A.

Then what might be causing smoke to be coming from the coils? It went something like this:
Got machine and turned it on. General shape explained in posts above. Reconnected lead to kick-out coil. Fired up machine and smoke coming from last coil in line (only one wire to both lugs). Disconnected this lead, fired it up. Next coil in line starts smoking. Power down machine, double check fuse, smack forehead. Bang forehead against wall a couple of times, then post here.

I haven't replaced to coil or turned on machine since. But besides fixing the blown transistors and trace on the solenoid driver, what could be causing the coils to go?

[RayB]

I would like to start this post by saying, for the record, that I did check the fuses, and I checked that they were properly rated. But I suppose I didn't check them close enough. What I thought was a 1-Amp slow-blow under the playfield was in fact a 10-Amp slow-blow fuse. I didn't noticed until I pulled out the fuse a second time (after two dead coils) and looked at in in bright daylight. The first time I looked at the fuse was in my garage, and most likely late at night and not so well lit. The "0" was very hard to read, and practically invisible in medium-low light.

So I just wanted to say thanks again for the advice... it is definitely very important. Now on to practice some solder skills to fix those blown transistors...

Just note that this is a very bad way to check fuse ratings because you are assuming that previous owners were responsible enough to use the correct fuses. Always go by the original manual and repair manuals.

[Neverending Project]

Just note that this is a very bad way to check fuse ratings because you are assuming that previous owners were responsible enough to use the correct fuses. Always go by the original manual and repair manuals.

I was checking them against the manual. I checked the playfield fuse and thought there was a 1-Amp slow-blow fuse installed, which is what the manual calls for. It was in reality a 10-Amp slow-blow fuse, but I couldn't see the "0" until the second time I checked it, in clear daylight.

[Neverending Project]

There is only one unique wire to each coil - it is the last coil in the chain. See my highly-technical, extraordinarily artistic 30-second picture attached.

I believe the coil is smoking when I power the game on. I haven't turned it on since, but I will definitely check all the drive transistors.

My hunch is that there was originally at least one bad transistor, and now there are are two shorted coils also. I have verified with a multimeter that the two smoking coils are now bad, and have disconnected them. Before I power the game back up, I want to check the drive transistors to make sure none of the other coils will be fried as well. Oh, and get the proper fuse in there...

[martinB]

Hi "Neverending Project",

what about your Flight 2000 ... does it work now? Hopefully it does.

I just startet a project to program that Flight for "Future Pinball", fascinated from the multiball lock-system. But as I never saw a Flight 2000 in real life I have some questions as to the rules of the game. Also I would need the original sounds of the different targets and rollovers as also the voice.

Do you think you are able to help me?

[Neverending Project]

Hi "Neverending Project",

what about your Flight 2000 ... does it work now? Hopefully it does.

I just startet a project to program that Flight for "Future Pinball", fascinated from the multiball lock-system. But as I never saw a Flight 2000 in real life I have some questions as to the rules of the game. Also I would need the original sounds of the different targets and rollovers as also the voice.

Do you think you are able to help me?

Hello martinB. Sorry I didn't get your post until now... I have not made any more progress on this pin. I have a terrible habit of starting new projects before I finish the ones I am working on. The good news is that I did finish my last project (which interrupted this one)! The bad news is that I have also started other projects in between... 

I plan on getting back to this restoration, and when I do I will be happy to help if you still need it.

[Neverending Project]

I have a terrible habit of starting new projects before I finish the ones I am working on.

Well, this is absolutely true. The positive side to having a bunch of unfinished projects is that you get to hop from one unfinished project to the next - you know, to prevent getting too frustrated bored with one project. So I helped my Dad fix his pinball game last night, and got the urge to work on mine again, so I did.

I replaced a couple of shorted (burned) coils that I fried sometime when I first got this game. And since I have last posted in this thread (over a year ago!) I have rebuilt the rectifier board and SDU board, including the HV and 5V circuits. So I know these areas are good.

Now when I power on the game at least one coil fires immediately (the outhole coil) and blows the 1Amp fuse under the playfield. I can't tell (yet) if more than this coil fires when I power it on. Here's what I have checked:
Coil resistance - ~13Ohms (Good)
Coil Diode - Pulled one lug and tests Good
SDU transistor - Good
SDU diode - Good
SDU resistor - Good

So here is my question. Clay lists the following tips on his site, but they seem to contradict each other:

Remember there are two fuses that handle power for the coils. The 1 amp underplayfield slow blow fuse will usually only blow if a coil is energized and staying energized. Yet the power supply F4 fast blow fuse usually blows if there is a "hard short" (a dead-short across a diode, or coil that is shorted out (less than 2 ohms), or coil power is shorting directly against a metal ground).

And a little bit further down he says:

The under the playfield solenoid fuse is usually located on the right hand side by the flippers. Usually it's a 1 amp slo-blo fuse. If this fuse keeps blowing, you have a solenoid problem on the playfield somewhere. This can be caused by a shorted coil, a bad coil diode, or a broken (and shorted) coil wire. A shorted and locked on driver transistor is probably NOT your problem.

So first he says that a shorted coil or diode will blow F4 and it is caused by an SDU transistor, then he says that a shorted coil or diode will cause the playfield fuse to blow.

I am trying to figure out the best way to isolate my problem, but this confuses me. Any suggestions? I may just disocnnect each of the ground wires from the coils and reconnect them one at a time until I see a problem, but that is a lot of work. Is there a better method?

[Neverending Project]

Sounds like a better method than my desolder-a-thon. I'll give 'er a try.

[Neverending Project]

OK, so I am able to narrow it down to connector J5 on the SDU. If I unplug J5 and power the game on, it goes into attract mode, and the rest of the connected coils will fire in the self-test mode. While it's in attract mode if I plug in J5 I hear a coil immediately fire - so I unplug it immediately.

I disconnected the coil that was firing (13), and try again. This time another coil fires immediately. I think it was 12. I could disconnect this one too and repeat, but isn't this telling me there is something wrong with the wiring, not necessarily a coil?

[Neverending Project]

Next up I need to check the solenoid driver board. I tested +46V at pins 3, 7 and 8 of J5 on the SDB, and it is my understanding that there should be to voltage on these pins.

From what I understand, when the MPU tells a solenoid to turn on (momentarily) it sends a signal which gets decoded, and the corresponding solenoid driver transistor turns on. The solenoid lug (connected to the non-banded side of the coil diode) is connected to this driver transistor, and hence gets connected to ground when the driver transistor turns on - thus energizing the coil. My point is that there shouldn't be +46V on this part of the SDB. I'll check for shorts or other funky stuff.

[Neverending Project]

OK, I think I was wrong in my last post. Every solenoid pin on the SDU should be +46V until it is fired, which will bring it low, and energize the coil.

So next I unplugged all the playfield connectors and checked the outputs of the transistor array chips (U1, U3 and U4 which are CA3081 chips) with a logic probe. Their Base and Collectors are labeled in the silkscreen on the SDU. They should all be high, but they're not. Some don't even register on the logic probe. Something funny is going on here. Next up will be to double-check these pins, and either check their traces or just replace them with new socketed chips.

But it's late, and I have had at least one cocktail. So I'd better sleep on it and double-check my work tomorrow.

[Neverending Project]

OK, I just checked with the game on and in attract mode and solenoids disconnected from the SDU. Each of the 16 pins of the decoder chip tested high, which is good. But some of the transistor array pins were not testing high, which is bad. These should all be high so their corresponding driver transistors are low (off).

So I powered off the game and tested each of the pins of U1/U3/U4 with the DMM on diode setting. Sure enough four of the transistors on U3 tested bad. I double checked every other pin on the three chips, and these are the only four that are bad. And I think it makes sense - if these transistors can't turn on, then their corresponding driver transistors would be on, and hence the solenoid would be stuck on.

So I will order some new CA3081 chips and solder in some sockets. If they're cheap enough I may replace all three. I guess next report will be in a week or so.

[Neverending Project]

The parts came quick (thanks Ed!) and I installed the new socket and CA3081 and re-checked that everything looked good with the DMM. I reconnected the coil leads, turned on the game and plugged in the SDU connectors one at a time making sure no coils were energized, and they weren't. So the locked-on coil problem is fixed.

Next up, flickering displays. I am suspecting bad 5101 chips on the MPU, but I will try to get a quick video posted soon so maybe someone else can give me clues.

[Neverending Project]

All displays flicker simultaneously. And the digits "roll" in unison. I'm pretty sure the displays need replacing, but I think there are other problems also, and the only replacement I can find is the PIN-LEDs for $250 (four seven-digits and one six-digit).

[Neverending Project]

I also noticed that the two pop-bumper coils were different from each other - J26-1200 and J26-1500. Do you think this will be noticeable in gameplay... should I replace one?