CP question: Minimum distance between players?

[Ginsu Victim]

In designing my 2-player CP (two joysticks, 7 buttons each, 1 spinner at the top -- size: 23 5/8" x 11") I've had trouble figuring out how much space minimum should be between player 1's buttons and the player 2 joystick. The joysticks are Happ Universals. The buttons layout is different than normal.




456
123
XXX4

(The X means nothing -- it's just a space filler).

This is a reverse Neo Geo layout, with the 4 being wired twice, so I don't have to reconfigure anything to play both Neo Geo and Capcom fighters (anyone has a better idea I'm wide open to it). So the fourth button will stick out the furthest right.

How much space should there be from the buttons to player 2?

Thanks.

[knave]

I think that's a pretty clever button layout.  I like easy and wireing the "4" button twice is a lot easier than reconfiguring a bunch of games.

Now as for space...23" is pretty tight to begin with for two players with 6 buttons.  Squeezing in two extra buttons AND a spinner is going to be a tight fit.  What about admin buttons?

If I were trying to get it all to fit in there I'd make my own measurements using a cardboard moc-up.  Incidently I think there's about 2-3 inches between the P1 buttons and the P2 joy. Either way player 1 and 2 are going to have to be real friendly as they rub elbows.

[Ginsu Victim]

It's an old Centuri Track and Field cabinet (nothing left of the original, just the converted cabinet), so the CP isn't very big. I could build outward and make it bigger, but I haven't come up with a design I like.
I have a cardboard cutout of the right size, but I'm still waiting for my parts to arrive.

For admin buttons, I plan on having a pause button at the top, and it will be a shifted button. I'm putting a TAB button iniside the coin door, and have coin mechs wired up, so no need for credit buttons.

My main concern is elbow room. I already have plexiglass cut to size of my CP, but if I build a larger one, I'm not much money on the plexi and can find another use for it anyway.

[u_rebelscum]

A lot of the old CPs were ~23.5"-24", and hanaho's hotrod is 24" too.
It's doable, but a lot of people here feel it's too small.     IMO, a lot of it has to do with how "big" you and your friends stand.  Legs spread, elbows out, shoulders square, full grown territorial adults of course require a bigger space than 11 year old kids with skinny shoulders who keep their elbows close to the body.    Also, how close you put the buttons to the sticks and to each other will effect how close you'll have to put player 1 to player 2.  IMO the hotrod is an okay distance apart.

I'm going to sound a little old, but get a friend and stand in front of the cab pretending to push buttons and wiggle the stick.  (Or better, cardboard test the layout with real stick & buttons.)  Be sure to try both players positions.  See if it's "too close" for you (well, and maybe your friends).

If you aren't too territorial, and you don't spread the buttons too much, I think 6"-8" will be fine. [ducks head]  Some people want 12"-16"

[NoOne=NBA=]

I've got two cabs that will do 2-player.

The first is a standup cab that has a 24" CP on it.
The sticks are about 14" apart on that one.

The other is a Jaleco sit-down cab.
That one has a 22" CP on it, and the sticks are only 10" apart.
They do slightly angle the button arrays though, so that player 1's elbow isn't smacking player 2 around.

[Ginsu Victim]

I've been planning on making a cardboard mock-up, just waiting for my parts to get here. I have the cardboard ready. (Whew! The hard part is over!) 

I have used the MameRoom custom control panel designer to layout things, but I won't really know how well things will work until I build the mock-up.

Luckily, it'll mostly be my wife and I playing. The only friends who will be playing don't have a problem standing close (grew up in arcades as well) and none of us have body odor problems (yay!).

I'll measure out some of the suggestions and see how they work.

Thanks for all your input.

[severdhed]

cardboard mockups are the best way to go.  my cabinet had a 23.5" panel when i got it, i was hoping that i could get a 6 button 2 player street fighter layout on it, but after a few cardboard mockups, i realized that it was just too close.  i ended up cutting the cabinet sides a little and making a control panel box to attach to it.  it is 30" wide .  there are 12" between player 1's 3rd button and player 2's joystick.  it is very comfortable with that much space...i never bump elbows anymore

[Ginsu Victim]

Yeah, I've considered cutting the sides a little to make a bigger CP box, but I'm conflicted about keeping as much of the original cabinet intact.

Oh well, to hell with it. It's already been converted a few times since its original Track and Field days, so what I do to it can't be any worse.

[Paul Olson]

My panel is 37" wide and a 2 player setup has about 19" between the joysticks. I really would not want to have a smaller panel, but I am definitely not an 11 year old with skinny shoulders.

[TheShanMan]

I'm going to sound a little old, but get a friend and stand in front of the cab pretending to push buttons and wiggle the stick.  (Or better, cardboard test the layout with real stick & buttons.)  Be sure to try both players positions.  See if it's "too close" for you (well, and maybe your friends).

I concur. I have a 23.5" panel with 2 players and 6 buttons each. I have swappable panels, so that takes away some of the width (about 4"), and yet I'm quite happy with the spacing. I'm not skinny either. Simulate 2 players standing there with hands on sticks and buttons and see how much of a problem there is, and adjust accordingly. You can adjust by moving sticks and buttons closer together, player 1 and player 2 further apart (closer to sides of panel), and also rotating the button layout (which will affect flaring out of the elbows).

I'd be glad to measure my spacing if you want to know it.

[Ginsu Victim]

Yeah, that would be great. In particular, the distance from Player 1's joystick to the left edge of the CP, and Player 2's buttons from the right edge. Also the distance between player 1's buttons to player 2's joystick.
Thanks.

[TheShanMan]

Distance from left edge to center of joystick shaft: ~ 4 1/8"
Distance from right edge to center of rightmost button: ~ 3 1/8"
Distance from center of P1's rightmost button to center of P2's joystick shaft: ~ 5 3/4"

[RoninEditor]

This is a great discussion, exactly what I was looking for.  My issue is that I'd love to keep my CP within the 'wall' of the cabinet, like the old school games (Ms. Pacman/Galaga), not like the modern table top style CPs (Tekken style).  I don't want to make my cabinet any wider than 26" (to get it through doorways) so I'd love to keep my control panel within or under 26". 

Here's kinda what I'm doing right now with my layout (the artwork is going to change):



My overall question is the joystick on the left (which is actually going to be a U360... right now, it's only like 3" from the left cabinet wall.  That's way too tight, right?  The trackball is killing me but I have to have it centered obviously, vs. cheating it to the right to make room.  I'm thinking I'm just gonna have to build a CP that comes out from the edges, like 30" to be comfortable, 2" overhang on each side.   I don't want P1 (myself usually!) banging his hand on the wall. 

(Also, right now, it's 15" between the joysticks.)

Just thought I'd get your guys' opinions!

[RoninEditor]

Er, actually, it looks like the left joystick will be 4".  Still a little tight...?

[Ginsu Victim]

ShanMan:
Thanks for the numbers!

[DaveMMR]

This is a great discussion, exactly what I was looking for.  My issue is that I'd love to keep my CP within the 'wall' of the cabinet, like the old school games (Ms. Pacman/Galaga), not like the modern table top style CPs (Tekken style).  I don't want to make my cabinet any wider than 26" (to get it through doorways) so I'd love to keep my control panel within or under 26". 

Here's kinda what I'm doing right now with my layout (the artwork is going to change):



My overall question is the joystick on the left (which is actually going to be a U360... right now, it's only like 3" from the left cabinet wall.  That's way too tight, right?  The trackball is killing me but I have to have it centered obviously, vs. cheating it to the right to make room.  I'm thinking I'm just gonna have to build a CP that comes out from the edges, like 30" to be comfortable, 2" overhang on each side.   I don't want P1 (myself usually!) banging his hand on the wall. 

(Also, right now, it's 15" between the joysticks.)

Just thought I'd get your guys' opinions!

My panel is 25" wide and is of the same exact layout as yours (except I added a spinner at the 11th hour).  At any rate I had the same concerns and problems until someone just told me to tun the joystick base 90 degrees (vertically) and re-orient the PCB on the U360.  Gave me a couple of extra inches to move the joystick over.