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Author Topic: Conflicts with Defender Cabinet Dimensions?  (Read 10199 times)

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pmc

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Conflicts with Defender Cabinet Dimensions?
« on: May 19, 2003, 10:27:13 am »
I'm trying to build a cabinet very close to authentic dimensions but I'm finding conflicts.

I have a Williams Defender flyer I found somewhere on the net that shows the machine at 72" x 28.5"(w) x 32.5(deep).

Arcade Restoration Workshop shows actual measured dimensions at 70.5 x 26 x 26 (base plate).

http://www.arcaderestoration.com/index.asp?OPT=3&CBT=66

I figure that the depth discrepancy is because you need to add the coin-panel/control panel depth to the base-plate. No biggy there (close enough).

Width appears to be 26" on the outside. With 3/4 MDF. that's 24.5" on the inside. Very different than the flyer that shows 28.5" on the outside. Does anyone know why there's a discrepancy?

I want it to fit through most doors, and a 26x26 square baseplate seems to result in a very nice proportions. So I'll likely go with that. But I'd like to know if I'm cutting down from the original versus staying true to the original.

Lastly, control panel space on that cabinet is very narrow. 6.5" deep. But I've seen other homebuilts in that style with 8" panels

http://members.shaw.ca/kevinu/arcade/layout.htm

Bigger is better in this case (I'm doing 2-sticks with 6-buttons each plus 1/2 coin/start at the top. If there's room, I'll put a spinner dead center). But which is authentic in demensions? Anyone have experience trying to fit a full two-player layout in 6.5 of depth? Futile?

Any assistance would be appreciated. I'm ready to cut panels, but this has me scratchin' my head.

- Patrick

mahuti

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Re:Conflicts with Defender Cabinet Dimensions?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2003, 10:48:22 am »
I don't have the time to check the dimensions right now on my original Defender cabinet, but I will sometime this evening.

The control panel is very small, but I managed to fit a 2 player fighter setup comfortably. I wouldn't put a spinner in the middle, though. I think the usable area is about 6 inches deep, the actual control panel is about 7 3/4" or 8" deep.

See the link in my signature to the Defender resto pics.... there's a page with details about the control panel.

If you really want the feel of a Defender cabinet, I would definately suggest picking up an original williams coin door (both the arcade and the pinball coin doors are almost identical)

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Re:Conflicts with Defender Cabinet Dimensions?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2003, 11:54:03 am »
The flyer might possibly have the crated dimensions listed on it. It is definitely not 28" wide. I have had a couple of the things, and they are the same width as every other cabinet. (Most all cabinets seem to be 24" - 25", and my Defender cabinets seemed the same width as all the rest).
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pmc

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Re:Conflicts with Defender Cabinet Dimensions?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2003, 01:02:06 pm »
I don't have the time to check the dimensions right now on my original Defender cabinet, but I will sometime this evening.

The control panel is very small, but I managed to fit a 2 player fighter setup comfortably. I wouldn't put a spinner in the middle, though. I think the usable area is about 6 inches deep, the actual control panel is about 7 3/4" or 8" deep.

See the link in my signature to the Defender resto pics.... there's a page with details about the control panel.

If you really want the feel of a Defender cabinet, I would definately suggest picking up an original williams coin door (both the arcade and the pinball coin doors are almost identical)


Totally awesome pictures. Great detail I will definiately use as I cut the panels. I haven't seen a real cabinet in years (I grew up and the machines disappeared since I last entered an Arcade in the early 90's). Some detail has been hard to get from pictures. Yours help alot.

I'll definately get the coin door. That front panel will look naked without it! I figure I'll add it later when I find one (any suggested sources?).

I'm planning on swappable control panels with the same idea that you appear to use (IPAC mounted inside the cab and a (round?) IDE cable to interconnect). I can put the spinner on a second panel later since I agree, you don't really have the space for the spinner without interfering with Player-2's J-Stick. I only want the spinner for Tempest anyway (a really big reason though).

I really appreciate your help!

mahuti

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Re:Conflicts with Defender Cabinet Dimensions?
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2003, 01:57:50 pm »
I'm glad I could be of help.

I can easily take detailed pictures of any parts of the cabinet as well, or get detailed measurements.

Though I am converting it to a MAME cabinet, I'm trying to keep the original feel to the entire cabinet (including the insides-- using the original defender power supply & power switches) Except for the orange t-molding... still I feel that is apropos.

As far as the coin door, I have an extra door that you could HAVE (plus shipping) but it's a bit beat up, though workable... needs some cleaning. You might have a hard time finding the mounting hardware for it, unfortunately. Ebay, though, seems to have a fair numer of them floating around, that's where I got my second door (mentioned above) I got that one for about 12$ You can find them in good shape for about $30. It was pretty easy to wire the coins, lights and standard coin mechs fit just fine.

You can try  metalica@metrocast.net, a guy named Chris Ferland. He sold me the bezels for my coin door, and has more parts. He may have access to a williams coin door & mounting hardware.

If you are interested, I have vector Defender side art files, high DPI marquee scan, high dpi control panel overlay (an original & a custom version, with live dimensions marked on them, and a 2 player overlay vector file based on williams multicabs / joust... looks good with defender. I'd be willing to trade all for a high dpi picture of the monitor bezel / overlay or high DPI scan of the monitor overlay. I also have original wiring diagrams & various other scans from defender cabinets / doors.

Anyway, good luck with your project.

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MameFan

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Re:Conflicts with Defender Cabinet Dimensions?
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2003, 02:44:47 pm »
I have a Defender cab that was converted to bubble bobbl,e but the graphics are still on the sides (under the formica).

LMK if you need any measurements off of my defender cab.

In return, if you could help me locate a mini(cabaret) version of Centipede/DigDug/Tempest for measurements, let me know who would have one :)

Thanks.

pmc

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Re:Conflicts with Defender Cabinet Dimensions?
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2003, 01:22:05 pm »
I have a Defender cab that was converted to bubble bobbl,e but the graphics are still on the sides (under the formica).

LMK if you need any measurements off of my defender cab.

In return, if you could help me locate a mini(cabaret) version of Centipede/DigDug/Tempest for measurements, let me know who would have one :)

Thanks.

Sounds like I'm going to go with 26" outside for the whole base (all four sides). But I'd appreciate you checking with a tape measure for me if you have the time. I'm pretty confident in the measurements of the side panels as a whole (as per King's drawing below). But I'd LOVE it if you could also measure the distance from the edge of the control panel to the glass so I know how deep to cut (and where the glass should start). King's site says 20/32 but I think that's how far from the edge of the side panel the glass is mounted (indicating where I have to mount the glass support). Maybe that's enough, but I've been thinking that the depth of the control panel is really the key measurement. The width is assumed to be 24.5" given I'm using 3/4" sheet material.

The rest I can get from studying pictures I think...

Thanks! I'll watch for those mini cabs!

- Patrick


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Re:Conflicts with Defender Cabinet Dimensions?
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2003, 03:21:53 pm »
My control panel and monitor area are temporariyl gutted right now. I'll send you detailed pics and measurements tonight.

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Re:Conflicts with Defender Cabinet Dimensions?
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2003, 09:30:55 pm »
Okay, took the notebook and loaded the pic in Paint (bad for editing!) and edited MOST of the measurements. If there isn't a white block next to the original number, then the original number was fine. All the rest were edits.

In addition, I added more measurements. I didnt do them well, but here are what they are:
A: Depth from front marquee edge [on side] that the top of the monitor plexi ends. (8 5/8")
B: Depth from front edge by control panel [on side] that the bottom of the monitor plexi ends (8")
C: Depth of control panel (8 1/8") deep
D: Height of front bump out that holds the coin door (17 1/8")
E: Depth from front bump out until the bottom facing (3 3/4") deep
F: Height of bottom facing 22 1/2"

I also added a height measurement of the angle of the back tilt (7 1/2") they didn't have before.   (6 1/4" is the depth of the tilt I measured)

All the front panels are 24 7/16" wide.


Let me know what else you need me to measure.  

The corners (inside and outside) are all somewhat rounded but have such a small radius, its just as easy to cut them blunt and just lightly sand with a sanding block, rather than attempt to measure and curve cut them.

pmc

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Re:Conflicts with Defender Cabinet Dimensions?
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2003, 11:02:00 am »
Okay, took the notebook and loaded the pic in Paint (bad for editing!) and edited MOST of the measurements. If there isn't a white block next to the original number, then the original number was fine. All the rest were edits.


You are my hero. I'll print and study this. I was hoping that things wouldn't be more than say, 1/4" off. I'm suprised at how different your numbers are. I wonder if Mahuti will find significantly different numbers too! (different revisions of cabinet?).

I hope I can return the favor somehow. I'll certainly put the data to immediate use.

- Patrick

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Re:Conflicts with Defender Cabinet Dimensions?
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2003, 11:43:26 am »
I forgot to note 2 other additions:
G: Height of solid back piece just above removable door on back side
H: Height of removable door

I didn't measure the lowest part that is solid, but simple math can calculate that.. an end table was in the way on the back side so I couldn't easily measure it.

Things I noted:
The slope of the side under the front bump out was significantly smaller angle than what was originally measured/drawn.

Also note: My cab only has clear plexi in front of the monitor since it was convered to bubble bobble, but there are 1x1's that hold it in place so it should be the same spot as the original artwork glass.
Also my control panel is one for Bubble Bobble and not defender, but based on the clips and stuff underneath, I would assume it is virtually identical to the defender one (in dimensions), and from memory of a friends, it looked the same to me, and yes, it DOES stick out 1/8" inch, mostly on the top edge from the side of the cabinet on mine (why the glass bottom starts 8" in from the edge, while the cp is 8 1/8" deep).  You of course can make your own adjustments as needed if you don't want it sticking out.

pmc

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Re:Conflicts with Defender Cabinet Dimensions?
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2003, 10:20:53 am »
I've asked Brien King for his viewpoint on the measurement conflicts. I'll follow-up here too. I want to cut the panels this weekend, so I'll likely wing it (i.e., use both sets of measurements and data). That's how I do most things! I brew beer and I always find myself blending three or four recipes for some reason. I always want the best of each of them. Wonder what compells me to do that...

pmc

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Re:Conflicts with Defender Cabinet Dimensions?
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2003, 04:02:33 pm »
I've been studying these, and much of it is not far off after all. Brien's site says that he may be as much as 1/8" off on any dimension so there's a little slack there (e.g., 5/8= somewhere between 1/2 and 3/4)

For example, width of the base of the box he had as 26-1/4 and you have 26". Given the slack factor, it's only a 1/4" discrepency.

You have front panels as 24-7/16 which is only 1/16th shorter than 24.5" which is what Brien says the back door measures (and it should be the same width as the front panels). That's barely within' my accuracy with a circular saw. I can firm up the measurements as I cut the panels to be snug.

I was foolish in thinking that the control panel was 6.5" deep. It's simply the length of the side panels that flank the control panel that are listed as 6.5". Can you confirm that the side panels should be cut to 6.5" while the control panel itself will run 8-1/8" and that last 1/8" will be under the glass? It's really the 6.5" dimension that's critical because the that's the angle you visual see. Once it's cut, the control panel depth is a matter of where the glass is (and now I know that, thank you!).

I think I'm good here and will let you know how it works out.

- Patrick

pmc

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Re:Conflicts with Defender Cabinet Dimensions?
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2003, 04:04:37 pm »
Can you confirm that the side panels should be cut to 6.5" while the control panel itself will run 8-1/8" and that last 1/8" will be under the glass? It's really the 6.5" dimension that's critical because the that's the angle you visual see. Once it's cut, the control panel depth is a matter of where the glass is (and now I know that, thank you!).


Never mind. I just re-read your post about how it sticks out 1/8". Got it.

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Re:Conflicts with Defender Cabinet Dimensions?
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2003, 05:28:33 pm »
I took some detailed pics of the control panel marquee area.. might give you some better context for those measurements.

Note the pieces used to support the panel on the sides and back. There's a groove that the monitor bezel sits in, that's right behind the lip for the control panel. The monitor bezel is not screwed in, it's held in place by a piece of molding at the top and bottom. It could be connected with screws in the design however.  It fits in front of 1 piece of wood. The 19" monitor bezel fits in between those 2 pieces of wood and is screwed in.

http://homepage.mac.com/mahuti/Mamecab/PhotoAlbum24.html
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pmc

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Re:Conflicts with Defender Cabinet Dimensions?
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2003, 05:55:39 pm »
I took some detailed pics of the control panel marquee area.. might give you some better context for those measurements.

Ahhhhh..... I see. That's how I was going to support the CP too (cleats). Great detail on the slope of the monitor shelf and the space behind the CP too (I never envisioned what was there). I like the CP mounting clips. While my CP will be removable, for now it'll be firmly in place. I have no idea how I'll mount it but I'm not worried about that.

Love that orange T-Molding. Very cool. I'll be boring and use black.

pmc

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Re:Conflicts with Defender Cabinet Dimensions?
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2003, 12:30:42 pm »
I wanted to provide some closure to this topic for posterity. I checked with Brien King on his cabinet dimensions and he responded like this (posted with permission):

Quote
those numbers are correct.  The drawing was redone on July 12th, 2000
and the measurements where verified and reverified at that time.
 
http://www.arcaderestoration.com/index.asp?OPT=3&DATA=975&CBT=592
 
They are as accurate as I can make them, however, it is possible that
there are some variations in the dimensions of cabinets out there.  
You should also keep in mind that the measurements are from the OUTSIDE
edges of the cabinet.   I didn't make any measurements of the inside
of the cabinet.  You could probably round some of the measurements off as
well and it probably wouldn't make any noticeable differences such as
the 59 7/16" measurement could probably be rounded to 59 1/2" since
that's only a 1/16" difference.

Over the memorial-day weekend, I built my cabinet. I decided to use Brien's measurements and doctor it up with MAMEFAN's numbers. Turns out that Brien's original numbers worked great. I even verified some of the trickier numbers with Pythagorium's Theroem and some other Trig I remember from high-school. I used MAMEFAN's numbers for control-panel size. The cabinet came out perfectly proportioned. I'm very happy.

I think the MAMEFAN cabinet may be a variant of Briens since some of the measurements seem very different.

Thank you all for your help. It's really made a difference for me. I had print-outs of every Defender cab I could find (and all your detail shots from this thread) and had all that data handy while measuring and cutting. This was invaluable given that a measurement or two done incorrectly and needs to be exposed before the saw-blade spins.