New Electric ICE Trackball Ver 2 - Announcement - GroovyGameGear

[Level42]

OK, I just dropped in the ball, with the same LED I already had in there:


Obviously, the single LED is not enough to properly light this one up...however, as Randy mentioned, the light coming from the ball is MUCH more even than that of the "orange/red" ball I had before. It's a really nice glow, and even when spinning the ball you don't see any changes.

Here's an "unlit" shot. It is dark over here now, so I can't take any daylight pics....this one is without flashlight.,,,


To compare with the original (dirty and yellowed) ball:



This ball feels heavier (in playing) that the orange/red ball I had before, and it plays a LOT nicer because of that !!!!! Not only is control more precise, when I give it a good swing it keeps rolling longer because of the bigger mass.....I really really like that !

Sadly I have other things to do tonight, so I can't wire up the other lighting stuff yet (nor the button), but I'm sure happy how it looks so far....

OK, it will never be the 100% original look. The ball is a bit milky white while Centipede originaly had an off-white ball. So it will always be a compromise. But I like it 100 times better than that orange/white thing I had before !:

[Level42]

Randy, are the Led's resistor meant for +5V ?

And that Nova -LED assembly ?

O and thanks about my "special request" 

[RandyT]

Randy, are the Led's resistor meant for +5V ?

And that Nova -LED assembly ?

Yes to both.  Just hook the Red wire to +5v DC and the Black to GROUND.

And don't look straight into the Nova-LED   

RandyT

[Level42]

No kidding ! These are VERY bright !

I just installed the Nova-Led on the trackball. Yes there is a lot more light coming from the ball now, exacly like I want it !  It is not TOO bright, but a nice, very even red glow.

I also hooked up the ICE button.

First a "naked" compare to a "real" white leaf button. Of course the ICE is a little milkier looking, still close enough !



Then the button installed with one of the LED's, what are they called button blaster LEDs I guess.....


Looks very nice. The spread of light is not as even as with the ball however. When you look on top, you can clearly make out the LED. But overall, the effect of this is very nice, and being it white when turned off is the real bonus and goal for me.
It would be great if the same even look could also be accomplished with the button (material ?) but it's fine as it is. It looks a lot better than the red-translucent leaf button that was in there before, with regards to the same "look" as the ball.



The overall feeling of the button is fine. However, the spring inside seems to be "loose" or something, or too light, I don't know, but it is resonating like hell. That really has to be fixed. I hope it's just my button. I will give some other springs a try tomorrow.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUXfS-Csl_U[/youtube]

I also ordered the much discussed micro-leaf switch, which still is a micro-switch. First: the people who claim that the click is almost unhearable are either lying or deaf. Maybe it's because it's on a metal panel, but I can clearly hear the clicks when playing. They are not the loud clicks of some of the cheap MicroSwitches, they are more civilized, but they are there, of course, because it's still a micro-switch

The feeling is very very good. Yes you can feel the click, but it is very very light. I _MIGHT_ consider keeping it in, if it wasn't for the click sound.

Let's call this the "best micro-switch for feeling and sound" and not the micro-leaf

I will try one of ponyboy's real leaf buttons tomorrow, and I guess I will settle for that.

In all honesty, I think the Midway leaf switches are the nicest I've ever played with (the one's on my Galaxian). A MS button with Ponyboy's leafs are nice, but not coming close to the feeling,mostly because of the sheer mass of the leafs on the Midway's....

But I'm running away..... I'm very very pleased with the results. Needs a bit of tweaking but we'll work that out tomorrow....

[Level42]

I said I could hear the click when I'm playing. That is not really true, I meant I could here it when it was silent. Of course game sounds, and other surrounding sounds will mask the click sound. Bottom line is that a leaf is still quiter.

One excellent thing about the ICE ball (V2.0):

When I look at the machine where my eye is at (or about) the same level as the CP, I can clearly see the nice, even red glow coming from it. With the orange/red translucent (happ) ball I had before, the lighting was hardly noticeable, because of the lens-effect that Randy already explained.

You can cleary see this in the reflection of the ball in the bezel on this pic:

[Level42]

Looking back at those pictures I think they don't do the ball and button justice. What seems overly bright (almost white) light, is a very nice red even glow....it is very hard to make a picture that shows the real look of it.

Anyway, here are some daylight shots. Keep in mind that the Centi is now in my kitchen, not far from a window and it was a very bright day today here, and it's winter so the sun is at a low position, directly letting light fall on the machine:

Unlit:



Lit. Again the picture is not like the real thing. The light from the ball and button is better than it looks here. But of course direct sunlight is overwhelming. It was hard to see the game picture on the monitor, that's how bright it was:

[Level42]

[Fozzy The Bear]

Looks perfect in all of those pictures, and it's clear that you're very pleased with it. I really must get round to ordering my replacement ball some time this week.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[Havok]

Thanks for the review - and also may I be the first for thanking you for restoring that control panel and getting rid of those horrid buttons that were there previously!

 

[patrickl]

Doesn't it make more sense to get a translucent red ball and translucent leaf switches (like on your mame cab) when you want them all to look red?

[fixedpigs]

Doesn't it make more sense to get a translucent red ball and translucent leaf switches (like on your mame cab) when you want them all to look red?

the ice balls spread light evenly...a translucent ball does not...

[Havok]

Doesn't it make more sense to get a translucent red ball and translucent leaf switches (like on your mame cab) when you want them all to look red?

I think it boils down to preference: translucent looks better unlit, electric ice looks better lit. Personally, I would go the looks better lit route myself...

[Level42]

Doesn't it make more sense to get a translucent red ball and translucent leaf switches (like on your mame cab) when you want them all to look red?

Uh, dat staat toch precies allemaal in mijn laatste berichten hier:
1) Onverlicht: witte knop, witte bal
2) Verlicht: mooi verdeeld, gelijkmatig rood licht. De Happ heeft een lens-werking. Als je er bijvoorbeeld haaks tegen aankijkt zie je zowat geen licht. De ICE strooit het licht alle kanten op ipv het te bundelen in het midden....

Daarnaast speelt de ICE bal een stuk beter dan de HAPP translucent vanwege het correcte gewicht.

[patrickl]

I'm mostly talking about the translucent red leaf switches on your other cab which I think look better. On the other hand, the ball also seems to look a bit pink instead of red when the picture isn't taken in the dark.

Anyway, I agree with Havok, it's probably more a matter of preference. Although the correct weight and handling of the ball would indeed be more important than looks.

[Hoopz]

I have a blue Novagem LED from RandyT lighting a blue translucent ball (not his) and I think it lights it extremely well.  The light is even across the ball.  It looks good in the day or night with the Novagem lighting it up.  I don't think it has much to do with the ball itself; rather, the Novagem is great.

Uh, dat staat toch precies allemaal in mijn laatste berichten hier:
1) Onverlicht: witte knop, witte bal
2) Verlicht: mooi verdeeld, gelijkmatig rood licht. De Happ heeft een lens-werking. Als je er bijvoorbeeld haaks tegen aankijkt zie je zowat geen licht. De ICE strooit het licht alle kanten op ipv het te bundelen in het midden....

Daarnaast speelt de ICE bal een stuk beter dan de HAPP translucent vanwege het correcte gewicht.

 
Can we get a translation please? 

[Havok]

Uh, dat staat toch precies allemaal in mijn laatste berichten hier:
1) Onverlicht: witte knop, witte bal
2) Verlicht: mooi verdeeld, gelijkmatig rood licht. De Happ heeft een lens-werking. Als je er bijvoorbeeld haaks tegen aankijkt zie je zowat geen licht. De ICE strooit het licht alle kanten op ipv het te bundelen in het midden....

Daarnaast speelt de ICE bal een stuk beter dan de HAPP translucent vanwege het correcte gewicht.

 
Can we get a translation please? 

Sure, here you go:


Hi Patrickl, I'd love to get it on with your man meat
1) You'll love my one big white ball - I shave it regularly
2) I am double jointed so I can make you feel like the woman you are. How about we meet at the Blue Oyster Bar tonight? I'll be the one wearing the three inch heels and diamond studded dog collar.

Can't wait to see you!

 

[patrickl]

Uh, dat staat toch precies allemaal in mijn laatste berichten hier:
1) Onverlicht: witte knop, witte bal
2) Verlicht: mooi verdeeld, gelijkmatig rood licht. De Happ heeft een lens-werking. Als je er bijvoorbeeld haaks tegen aankijkt zie je zowat geen licht. De ICE strooit het licht alle kanten op ipv het te bundelen in het midden....

Daarnaast speelt de ICE bal een stuk beter dan de HAPP translucent vanwege het correcte gewicht.

This is what babel.altavista.com makes of it  :

Uh, which stand nevertheless exact all in my last bulletins here:
1) Unlit: white bud, white ball
2) lighted: nicely divided, even rood lifts. Lens-werking have the Happ. If you look at see for example haaks you zowat none slightly. THE ICE scatter it slightly all sides on ipv it to join in the middle....

Moreover the ICE play ball a piece improve then the HAPP translucent because of the correct weight.

[Havok]

Waaay off...

[Level42]

The Happ translucent wasn't a deep red looking thing either:


You can clearly see that the button is red, and the ball is orange. This is LIT.

You can se the lens effect pretty well here:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlfezwBHn7U[/youtube]

Compare it to the even glow of the ICE.

Patrick, I guess you gotta see it in real life, you're welcome to come and check it out

[Level42]

Uh, dat staat toch precies allemaal in mijn laatste berichten hier:
1) Onverlicht: witte knop, witte bal
2) Verlicht: mooi verdeeld, gelijkmatig rood licht. De Happ heeft een lens-werking. Als je er bijvoorbeeld haaks tegen aankijkt zie je zowat geen licht. De ICE strooit het licht alle kanten op ipv het te bundelen in het midden....

Daarnaast speelt de ICE bal een stuk beter dan de HAPP translucent vanwege het correcte gewicht.

 
Can we get a translation please? 

Sure, here you go:


Hi Patrickl, I'd love to get it on with your man meat
1) You'll love my one big white ball - I shave it regularly
2) I am double jointed so I can make you feel like the woman you are. How about we meet at the Blue Oyster Bar tonight? I'll be the one wearing the three inch heels and diamond studded dog collar.

Can't wait to see you!

 

Stupid Babelfish doesn't even translate rood to red 

[Daniel B.]

I just ordered my v2 trackball, along w/ 50ft of t molding.

Couple of quick questions (I'm really not trying to get OT here, but to save another new thread)...


I don't have any type of lighting controller, I understand you just connect the color you want to the ground? So in this case, I want the ball to glow red, I wire the red control wire to the Ground? Also - mouse buttons....can I use existing buttons for mouse buttons or do I need to add additional? I'd like to use this in windows, I have a keywiz currently, that I've yet to wire. I'd like to re-use buttons.

Thanks all!

[Level42]

As to give a clue about the weight of the ball being important:

I just improved my personal record with over 12000 points ! This was my first serious try to improve it after I installed the ball. I can do this seriously only when wife and kid are not around.....

67344 is my new record now...

[RandyT]

On the other hand, the ball also seems to look a bit pink instead of red when the picture isn't taken in the dark.

Patrick, please read what he wrote:

Looking back at those pictures I think they don't do the ball and button justice. What seems overly bright (almost white) light, is a very nice red even glow....it is very hard to make a picture that shows the real look of it.
It was hard to see the game picture on the monitor, that's how bright it was:

The ball isn't "pink" and you don't need to be "in the dark" for it to be red.  It is just the camera's way of "making sense" of the overall image.  Most cameras don't do well with pictures of light sources.  The automatic exposure settings drop like crazy when metered on the light source, which shows the light source well, but makes everything else in the frame look pitch black. 

And if the light on the cab is so intense that one can barely see the screen of the CRT (washout) then obviously that same intense light will affect the appearance of the diffuser (trackball).  They haven't made a transmissive material that transmits visible light in only one direction.  The laws of physics state that you can't.

RandyT

[patrickl]

I read what he wrote and I saw the pictures. He took the picture in an unlit kitchen and it burned out the image of the ball losing color. Indeed that could be seen as a metering issue, but I wasn't talking about that situation.

I'm talking about the situation where the room is properly lit. Ambient light will always overpower the LED to some extent and bring back the white depending on the ratio of ambient light versus the LED. As the sun lit images show, given enough ambient light the ball turns almost completely white. That's not a metering issue. That's simply the laws of physics.

[Level42]

To an extend, patrick is right.

I do think it's not 100% possible to give a very deep red (like the red that comes from coin entry buttons) with a LED light source. A white incadescent light source has almost a full range of visible light frequencies. A LED is very limited. Most ultra-bright "RED" LED's look a bit orange-ish to me. The Nova-led, is much better in that way. However, yes the white material tends to "shift" the light a bit towards a lighter-red (SURELY not pink) in bright light. The darker it gets, the less this seems to be the case.

Now, I personaly think that an arcade cab should never be in a very bright environment. Arcades were pretty dark, and there were reasons for that (CRT brightness, the effect of lights on pins etc.) My to-be-built "arcade" will be properly "lit". I KNOW it's going to look great, whatever the weather or time of day.

I think the only way of getting an evern deeper/darker red is by using a red translucent ball. But I don't want a red ball for the reasons I already mentioned.

If things go well, I will be able to do a comparison between the balls of Randy and Andy in the near future.

I am very satisfied with the ICE ball. The improvement over the Happ orange/red ball is dramatic both in looks and in feel.
The look is very,very attrative and I really think it spices up the Centipede's CPO AND the machine as a whole.

[Edit] I think the picure that only shows the button, ball and part of the screen is the best match to the real look. Note that I did NOT take that picture in the dark ! It _was_ at night, but I had the usual lights on in the kitchen.

My camera is pretty good , especialy in color (Fujifilm S6500fd).

[patrickl]

Indeed in a game room the lights normally aren't that bright.

BTW I have seen pictures of translucent balls that do light up evenly. See Knievels work and HooPZ mentioned his ball lights up evenly too.

[Hoopz]

Indeed in a game room the lights normally aren't that bright.

BTW I have seen pictures of translucent balls that do light up evenly. See Knievels work and HooPZ mentioned his ball lights up evenly too.

* HoopZ thinks 37 years of frustration while waiting for someone to ask to see a picture of his ball may be ending soon!

[patrickl]

Indeed in a game room the lights normally aren't that bright.

BTW I have seen pictures of translucent balls that do light up evenly. See Knievels work and HooPZ mentioned his ball lights up evenly too.

* HoopZ thinks 37 years of frustration while waiting for someone to ask to see a picture of his ball may be ending soon!

I was wondering if there were some revealing pictures of your ball around, but I thought asking for it might be inappropriate 

[Level42]

Knievl's ball in the Neon Mame looks to be a regular 3" blue translucent (Happ) ball. You can see the lens effect happening on his pics too (outside of the ball is darker then the center). Not sure how Knievel illuminated it, with a single LED or several. Also, a blue ball is still blue unlit. There were once translucent red balls that were also (more) red unlit (instead of orange):

 

[patrickl]

The pictures of those "red" balls look pretty bad 

Knievl's ball in the Neon Mame looks to be a regular 3" blue translucent (Happ) ball. You can see the lens effect happening on his pics too (outside of the ball is darker then the center).

Sure there is a minor lens effect, but it's not like there is "virtually no light visible" if you look at the ball from the side.



That one seems to use 3 leds through the hole in the bottom. *snicker*

[Level42]

Well, I only used 1 LED on both balls, so that's not fair

[RandyT]

BTW I have seen pictures of translucent balls that do light up evenly. See Knievels work and HooPZ mentioned his ball lights up evenly too.

Patrick, There's "evenly" and there's evenly.  You really should actually see one of the V2 ICE balls before attempting to talk to the differences.  Frankly, without having a proper frame of reference to do so, as Level42 does, it's just meaningless banter that does little more than to confuse those who might actually be interested in the product.

RandyT

[Level42]

He will see it on his next visit here

I replaced the spring with one from a translucent red MS button I had around. Springy sound problem gone.
I also installed the leaf switch from Ponyboy. I have done some extensive modding of it, to get it to fit with the LED and to make it feel like I want it to.

In all honesty.......... I might switch back to Randy's micro-leaf switch......not sure yet, but it could be that for Centipede this is the way to go. The nature of Centipede's firing (holding, and somtimes aiming single shots) is different from f.i. a game like 1942 or Galaxian.

The sound of the leaf in there now is actualy louder clicking than Randy's Micro-Leaf, and the resistance a bit too much for my taste, feels pretty firm to press down. I may be able to tweak it a bit more, but returning the Micro-Leaf is definitely a possibility.

Expect pictures in my Centipede thread about all this soon...

[patrickl]

Well I thought I had the right to ask some obvious questions. There are some advantages and disadvantages to ICE (vs translucent) and indeed I'd like to be able to make an informed decision before shelling out a lot of money just to see it in person. Also I'm not going to take the word of a salesperson who only speaks in superlatives/buzz words and never sees a downside to anything he sells (even though he sells both options).

Anyway, I got my answers from Level42. Thanks for that   Indeed I hope to see your Centipede sometime. It looks like another impressive restoration.

[RandyT]

Also I'm not going to take the word of a salesperson who only speaks in superlatives/buzz words and never sees a downside to anything he sells (even though he sells both options).

Regardless of your mis-characterizations, the folks who ask me for advice and get straight, no-nonsense answers to questions relating their specific needs know better.

There are always "downsides" and "upsides" to everything, and in most cases the thing that qualifies them either way is purely the needs of the individual.  Case in point:  A heavier, arcade standard ball performs better than a lighter ball, which still perform well.  Before now, heavier, arcade standard balls were opaque and/or could not be evenly illuminated so as to change their color, pulse, etc, so the "upside" of an opaque ball really doesn't matter if the trackball on a panel is expected to light and change colors.  The right product depends on the priorities of the individual, so it would make no sense for me not to offer options or disparage one or the other without knowing the application for which it is destined.

I replaced the spring with one from a translucent red MS button I had around. Springy sound problem gone.

Something else you can do if a spring is a little "twingy" is take the spring out and give it a little stretch to increase the length slightly.  This will ensure a more solid contact with the insides of the button when it is fully extended, and remove any rattle.  This will work for any button, not just the EI variety.

RandyT

[Havok]

Just ordered my upgrade ball - can't wait to get it!

[patrickl]

Also I'm not going to take the word of a salesperson who only speaks in superlatives/buzz words and never sees a downside to anything he sells (even though he sells both options).

Regardless of your mis-characterizations, the folks who ask me for advice and get straight, no-nonsense answers to questions relating their specific needs know better.

Well I asked about the color in a lighted room and all I got was a story about metering problems in a dark (or poorly lit) room.

[rdenis]

Just installed the new "replacement" ball and what a difference - silky smooth and looks great.  Big improvement over the original electric ice ball.  

[Ummon]

They haven't made a transmissive material that transmits visible light in only one direction.

I think they have or are close, though you'll find it in an expensive optics lab.

[RandyT]

They haven't made a transmissive material that transmits visible light in only one direction.

I think they have or are close, though you'll find it in an expensive optics lab.

Link please.  Keep in mind that such at thing would be similar to a wall that you can walk through from one direction but is physically solid from the other...at the same time. 

RandyT