Author Topic: Toshiba 24AF41 24" TV... Good Find (So Far)! (Read 5676 times)

Organic Jerk · « **on:** November 23, 2007, 08:15:58 pm »

I've found someone through craigslist who's selling a Toshiba 24AF41 Television set, and I'm going to be checking it out This weekend..

Does anyone have any experience with this TV that they can share?

As it stands, I would imagine that if I like it, I would have to chop off the speaker sides of the TV...

Some links:

http://tacpservice.toshiba.com/ConsumerProductSupport/Manuals/TV/2002/20AF41_24AF41.pdf

http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-24AF41-24-Pure-Flat/dp/B00005AK92

http://www.audioreview.com/cat/televisions/standard-televisions/toshiba/PRD_126857_6435crx.aspx#review0

TOK · « **Reply #1 on:** November 23, 2007, 10:28:11 pm »

I have the 27" version of that TV in my vert cab. I'm using a Radeon 9550 w/ Component adapter.
Looks very nice behind the tinted bezel. I considered de-casing at first, but found that the boards were molded into the TV base with very short leads which severely limited placement options. It also has a really long and thin neck compared to a typical arcade monitor. I ended up leaving it cased but it worked out find since the speakers wind up at the top and bottom in my configuration. I can see them being a hassle for horizontal mounting.

The TV does remember its power state (works great with Smart Strip) and input.
Marquee and CP weren't totally done in this pic, but you get an idea of the image behind tinted plexi.

Organic Jerk · « **Reply #2 on:** November 24, 2007, 12:08:32 am »

Wow, those are some great photos! At least now I'm very confident I can cut off the sides and not have much worry...

Thanks alot!

Are there any issues or aspects of the TV I should know about as far as menus, messages, or any other on-screen dialogues/labels?

TOK · « **Reply #3 on:** November 24, 2007, 06:04:30 am »

No dialogs or anything stay up. If you look to the upper right of the Ms. Pac picture, you can see the power light LED. I put tape over that and I also made a small hole in the monitor surround behind the bezel so that I can use the remote to change inputs. While setting up the Component connection, it was nice to be able to use the remote to switch back to S-Video if anything went wrong. When Windows is booting in Component mode, there are some screens of garbage because the resolutions aren't supported. Once its configured it doesn't matter, but those resolutions are visible in S-Video so you can troubleshoot and watch the entire boot process by just changing inputs.

The Component image looks a lot better, so its worth the bit of extra work.

Organic Jerk · « **Reply #4 on:** November 24, 2007, 07:26:22 pm »

Well I've received the TV and I can so far confirm TOK's findings...

Apart from the width (which I will be hacking at), it seems like a great find!

The colors are crisp (and edit in the menus well), the details are sharp, and it's very responsive! And I'm only using S-Video! (My ATI Component adapter hasn't come in the mail yet)

Patience might actually be a virtue, after all...

I'll keep you guys (and the seller) posted on it's performance if anything goes sour...

TOK · « **Reply #5 on:** November 24, 2007, 09:01:03 pm »

Not to tell you something you may already know from reading the forum, but most people need to set resolution to 640x432 to get entire image on the screen in Component mode. I had to learn this one the hard way. S-Video was fine, and Component cropped the side of my image (bottom actually, but the TV is in there sideways).
I initially experimented with Power Strip, then found the Radeon could handle those resolutions anyway, then later found that MaLa had a handy dialog box that let you specify a custom resolution.

That dialog box in MaLa brought my front end and all the games right into line. I've been a devotee since.

Here is a picture of the Windows desktop when I initially discovered the issue. This is 640x480, and you can see the Task Bar is nearly off the screen. The vert games were all similarly cropped until I entered the custom resolution.

Justin Z · « **Reply #6 on:** November 25, 2007, 07:51:49 pm »

You know I just went into the service mode on my TV and shrunk the "vertical" size down so that 640x480 fit. I loaded up Mario Bros. to give me a nice full size image for a horizontal game but if you're already configured vertically you can use another game like Tron.

A quick search on the 'net for "Toshiba Service Mode" or something of the like ought to give you sufficient instructions. My TV is a Toshiba as well and apparently it's the same procedure for almost all of them. Sorry I don't have a link but it's an easy find.

TOK · « **Reply #7 on:** November 25, 2007, 09:54:29 pm »

Thanks for the heads up on that. I have it working perfect for MAME now and I do nearly all file moving/configuring on it from a networked computer. Holding a mouse and looking at the screen sideways gets old in about 30 seconds.

Organic Jerk · « **Reply #8 on:** November 25, 2007, 11:26:55 pm »

Thanks for the heads up, Justin... I was actually having issues with screen curvature and a heavy blue tint that I was able to fix with that menu

For those considering/testing this TV, you can find out how to access the menu below:

http://www.keohi.com/keohiHDTV/brandspecific/toshiba/servicemenu/accesstoservicemenu/20af41_servicemenu.html

Quote

* Turn the volume down to 0.
* Press the volume down on the front of the tv and at the same time press 9 on the remote. Wait a few seconds and the service menu should appear. Make sure to write down the parameter/value pairs before changing anything. You can scroll through the parameters by using the channel up/down on the remote
* Use the volume up and down on the remote to change the values.
* Press Menu on the remote to exit the service mode.

This is a really good Television... I hope I don't screw anything up when I attempt to cut the speaker sides off...

Justin Z · « **Reply #9 on:** November 26, 2007, 06:29:03 pm »

Cool I'm glad that turned out to be of some use. It was a real lifesaver for me!

Good luck with modifying your TV, and let us know how it goes!

Organic Jerk · « **Reply #10 on:** November 26, 2007, 11:00:02 pm »

Well I received the component adapter and I can't for the life of me get it to work right...
I get the jarbled visuals when booting, and Windows seems to notice the TV there, but I'm not getting a picture at all on it...

TOK, is there anything in particular you had to do to get it working right?

I have an ATI 9700 Pro and I'm using the DVI-Component adapter...

Do I have to install the Catalyst Control Center? As of right now I only install the driver because I didn;t want the clunky software (which also needs .NET 2.0)...

EDIT: I seem to have it... but I think my playing with the service menu might have gotten the best of me... Might have to call Toshiba and see how to restore it to factory settings (or tweak it as much as possible)

I'm not sure how I feel about the component video... it definitely looks good (especially on the 3d games) but I think it might look TOO good... it looks more like a computer monitor than an arcade monitor..

EDIT2: It also seems like component video doesn't get along with some applications where I can't edit the specific refresh rate parameters (such as Raiden 3 or Doom Legacy)... component might be a pipe dream for me...

TOK · « **Reply #11 on:** November 27, 2007, 08:23:36 am »

The component input is limited to the resolutions it will show. When I boot, the Windows loading screen is scrambled because its a resolution not supported in component (this is why I mentioned keeping the S-video option open for troubleshooting). 640x480 and 640x432 are supported in component, so my desktop, front end and games all look great after the out-of-sync loading screen.

Using the custom resolution in MaLa, I haven't had any games that display out of sync. Not sure that I've tried Raiden 3, but I do have Raiden Fighters Jet running on there no problem. Does that one run out of sync on you?

I disagree about the look of the component image vs. S-Video. I find component sharper and the colors are more vivid, but not in a high resolution kind of way. S-video looks like it had some kind of noise/beat in it, and the reds looked washed out and leaning towards pink. Worse, but not worse in a low res arcade monitor kind of way. Just worse.

Perhaps your slightly smaller screen makes it look sharper.

Organic Jerk · « **Reply #12 on:** November 27, 2007, 10:42:53 am »

Well, for example, I had to set the windows desktop (understandably) to 30hz interlaced to work properly.. Raiden 3 (PC Game, not rom) doesn't seem to allow custom refresh rate options, so it's presumably running at 640*480 at 60hz (along with Doom Legacy, which uses OpenGL, if that means anything)... I guess I would have to install and configure Powerstrip for every game that gives problems, eh?

I haven't tried Raiden Fighters, but MAME does work well, so I guess if it's a rom it shouldnt give me any problems...

Quote from: TOK on November 27, 2007, 08:23:36 am

I disagree about the look of the component image vs. S-Video. I find component sharper and the colors are more vivid, but not in a high resolution kind of way. S-video looks like it had some kind of noise/beat in it, and the reds looked washed out and leaning towards pink. Worse, but not worse in a low res arcade monitor kind of way. Just worse.
Perhaps your slightly smaller screen makes it look sharper.

Well I've been staring at it and I'm not sure how I feel... I do like the sharpness (of both the color and screen elements), but then I also like the "kinda sorta burred" look of S-video as well, for different reasons..

It may just be me, but the screen looks definitely "new" when on component, and doesn't look "authentic" (or at least as close as you can get with a television)... I kind of liked how the pixels in MAME were there but not so distinct and sharp as they are on component (or a computer monitor)...

I think I may give it a more complete go with Powerstrip when I get home today...

Organic Jerk · « **Reply #13 on:** December 30, 2007, 10:57:08 pm »

Never did give the Component a go, as I'm fairly satisfied with the S-video so far...

In case anyone is intrested in ever getting this TV, I've decided to upload the Service manual for it.

I spent about 5 bucks for it at a manual download site... thought it should be free. =P

http://files.tribalonline.net/24AF41_docs_zip66

Level42 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 31, 2007, 09:44:32 am »

Hack some RGB into it (OSD RGB)....

RetroGreg · « **Reply #15 on:** January 09, 2008, 10:04:30 pm »

I have the same tv that I plan on putting in a cabinet. I don't think I will cut off the sides though. How has that worked out for you?

Thanks for the service manual. I have yet to play mame on the tv as I do not have a video card for my pc that displays s video yet. But when I play my Dreamcast sometimes I get the sides of the picture curling inwards. You said yours did the same before adjusting the settings? Did that work for you?

Organic Jerk · « **Reply #16 on:** February 13, 2008, 09:33:04 pm »

I'm about to cut the sides of the TV of... which entails opening the back, unscrewing the speakers and moving them, and then sawing away...

Here's a repeat of the pic TOK posted above to show you guys what I will possibly be looking at:

(image removed. see images in post below)

I've read the Monitor FAQ and the Monitor chapter of the BYOAC book, but is there any immediate things that people think I should pay attention to, lest I die?

Quote from: RetroGreg on January 09, 2008, 10:04:30 pm

You said yours did the same before adjusting the settings? Did that work for you?

Well it still seems to curl a bit, and the screen grows when lightened... so I fudged around with the settings until I got what I consider a good medium. The top will always seem to be a bit curved in, but from what I understand, it's almost impossible to get a perfect picture from ANY TV, so eh.

EDIT: Well, the inside of my TV isn't exactly like The pic posted above... I will try to get a new pic for you all.

Organic Jerk · « **Reply #17 on:** February 13, 2008, 10:30:41 pm »

Here are pics:

You can see that the speaker wire is tied to a thick cable that trails around the tube of the TV. I would like to move them (or remove them outwright), but I'm not sure if I can touch that trailing cable. I know I can't touch the wire connected to the suction cup, as well as the isolation transformer, but beyond that I'm not sure..

Can I safely pull out the speakers (and cap or remove the speaker wires?)

EDIT: From the looks of it, the flyback wire is directly in my line of fire on the right side, making it very difficult to unscrew the speakers and saw off that side...

If I discharge, that would make the wire safe for me to handle, no?

qrz · « **Reply #18 on:** February 16, 2008, 10:25:54 pm »

the anode lead is rated for 50kv and well insulated. so , shouldn't be a problem.....
however,
discharging the crt would remove the shock hazzard . if u don't have a HV probe , find a long (w/well insulated handle ) flat head screwdriver. (UNPLUG tv from AC) connect a insulated wire to the metal shank of screwdriver . connect the other end of wire to the braided strap on the tube .
>>>>>>>> MAKE SURE WIRE IS SECURE ON BOTH ENDS <<<<<<<<
slowly slide screwdriver tip under the anode cup.
if the crt retains voltage , u may hear a sizzle sound accompanied by the tube crackling as it discharges .
continue until noise subsides.
note : sudden contact with the anode may result in a very loud SNAP !

qrz

rotheblog · « **Reply #19 on:** February 20, 2008, 09:47:21 am »

Don't know if you attempted this yet or not...

But here is a video tutorial on how to discharge a monitor if you haven't done it before. The instructions above are good, so this is just a visual reference.

http://www.rotheblog.com/2008/02/arcade/video-tutorials-working-arcade-monitors/

Organic Jerk · « **Reply #20 on:** April 21, 2008, 11:37:18 pm »

Thanks alot for the references on Discharging guys... it was no sweat and they REALLY (Really, especially with confidence) helped.

So I've cut the sides off finally, and the TV has gone fron 26.5in wide to a measly 21.5in, fitting my 23 inch limit perfectly!

I have yet to actually test if the TV still works (or if all the jostling from the saw killed it) but until I close up the sides with plexi and epoxy I'm leaving it alone and hoping for the best.

I had to snip the speakers off to cut off the sides, so I effectively turned the thing into a "presentation monitor" of sorts, but I might solder them back on, drill some holes in the plexi and screw them on there if I feel the need.

So far, so slow, but so good.

TOK · « **Reply #21 on:** April 22, 2008, 06:05:03 am »

That did really slim it down! I probably would have done the exact same thing, but it was a nearly new TV and I couldn't bring myself to do it at the time. I wouldn't give it a second thought now, since it gets more use as a MAME cab than it did as a television. Nice work.

Flake · « **Reply #22 on:** May 13, 2008, 01:52:40 pm »

Quote from: TOK on November 24, 2007, 09:01:03 pm

Not to tell you something you may already know from reading the forum, but most people need to set resolution to 640x432 to get entire image on the screen in Component mode. I had to learn this one the hard way. S-Video was fine, and Component cropped the side of my image (bottom actually, but the TV is in there sideways).
I initially experimented with Power Strip, then found the Radeon could handle those resolutions anyway, then later found that MaLa had a handy dialog box that let you specify a custom resolution.

That dialog box in MaLa brought my front end and all the games right into line. I've been a devotee since.

Here is a picture of the Windows desktop when I initially discovered the issue. This is 640x480, and you can see the Task Bar is nearly off the screen. The vert games were all similarly cropped until I entered the custom resolution.

So I have a 27" Toshiba TV CRT Flat screen using a DVI to component adapter from an Nvidia 8400 GS video card and I cant get anything but the blurred garbage to appear on my TV. S-video at 800x600 looks great but component isnt working. I was ablel to access the service menu as well per the instructions from this thread and all it did was move around my blurred garbage. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

TOK · « **Reply #23 on:** May 13, 2008, 07:05:54 pm »

Try dropping your desktop resolution down to 640x480 as a test. If you're using XP and it's not showing a resolution lower than 800x600, right click on the desktop, hit Properties, click on Advanced, then the Adapter tab, then the List All Modes button.

At 800x600, I think you're just out of the TV's range on that input. My TV did the same thing.

edit to add: After you set it to 640x480, let it boot clear to the desktop. The Windows startup screens are a weird res and will still be out of sync.

Flake · « **Reply #24 on:** May 13, 2008, 10:36:04 pm »

Quote from: TOK on May 13, 2008, 07:05:54 pm

Try dropping your desktop resolution down to 640x480 as a test. If you're using XP and it's not showing a resolution lower than 800x600, right click on the desktop, hit Properties, click on Advanced, then the Adapter tab, then the List All Modes button.

At 800x600, I think you're just out of the TV's range on that input. My TV did the same thing.

edit to add: After you set it to 640x480, let it boot clear to the desktop. The Windows startup screens are a weird res and will still be out of sync.

Well I appreciate the response but that didnt work. It did make it slightly better in that I can at least tell where the ocean and Palm tree are in the Windows blue azul desktop background............any more thoughts?

TOK · « **Reply #25 on:** May 14, 2008, 05:46:59 am »

I'm not familiar with the NVidia component adapter... Does it have switches on it to choose the resolution? If so, that also has to be set to 480i.

Flake · « **Reply #26 on:** May 14, 2008, 09:22:38 am »

Quote from: TOK on May 14, 2008, 05:46:59 am

I'm not familiar with the NVidia component adapter... Does it have switches on it to choose the resolution? If so, that also has to be set to 480i.

Do you think maybe its a cabling issue? This is the cable I bought to connect the computer to my TV. What do you think?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190220608072&ssPageName=MERC_VIC_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT&refitem=190219561906&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&usedrule1=StoreCatToStoreCat&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget&_trksid=p284.m183&_trkparms=algo%3DDR%26its%3DS%252BI%252BSS%26itu%3DISS%252BUCI%252BSI%26otn%3D4

TOK · « **Reply #27 on:** May 14, 2008, 10:03:11 am »

Very possible. With the ATI cards, you have an adapter that converts the DVI output to component right at the port, then you use standard component cables.
Since there are two variations with the adapter that work with specific ATI cards, I'd be amazed if a generic conversion cable like that would work.
No experience here with NVidia hardware, but I'd probably start by looking for something made specifically for your card that does component out.
The adapter I bought was only about 15 bucks, so it shouldn't be expensive if its similar for your card.

Flake · « **Reply #28 on:** May 14, 2008, 10:50:25 am »

Quote from: TOK on May 14, 2008, 10:03:11 am

Very possible. With the ATI cards, you have an adapter that converts the DVI output to component right at the port, then you use standard component cables.
Since there are two variations with the adapter that work with specific ATI cards, I'd be amazed if a generic conversion cable like that would work.
No experience here with NVidia hardware, but I'd probably start by looking for something made specifically for your card that does component out.
The adapter I bought was only about 15 bucks, so it shouldn't be expensive if its similar for your card.

OK cool I will look into getting a compatible adapter. Do you know a good place to start looking?

I think this must be it because the picture I have now is just frazzled to hell.

Thanks alot.


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