Author Topic: Question about an Party Animal pinball I picked up (Read 9979 times)

2PacMan · « **on:** July 31, 2007, 10:57:54 am »

I just picked up a Bally Animal Party pinball the other day and am starting to clean it up. I noticed the game has 2 buttons on each side of the cabinet. One obviously controls the flippers, but the lower button on each side has the leaf switches bent so they are not making contact and don't do anything. Does this second set of buttons just control the flippers too? Why would they make 2 buttons right next to each other do the same thing? Also, would there be a reason why the previous owner would disable these buttons? Does it overload the game or something if someone pressed all 4 buttons at once? Just trying to see if i should leave it as is, or bend the leaf swithes back so the buttons work again. Thanks!

shardian · « **Reply #1 on:** July 31, 2007, 11:09:48 am »

Those buttons are stock from what I can tell. No idea why though as there are only three flippers.

2PacMan · « **Reply #2 on:** July 31, 2007, 11:32:17 am »

Yes, the buttons are stock, and the left button controls both the lower left and upper left flipper, and the rt button controls the right flipper, so as far as i can tell, the extra set of buttons aren't even needed, but why are they there?

Jeff AMN · « **Reply #3 on:** July 31, 2007, 11:35:52 am »

I've seen other machines where the extra set is basically redundant. However, you could re-wire the machine so that the lower buttons only fire off on the lower flippers while the upper flippers fire off the 3rd flipper.

I'm not sure how it was originally set up, but it's always an option if you want...

ChadTower · « **Reply #4 on:** July 31, 2007, 11:43:44 am »

I assume you mean Party Animal?

Never played one, but I hear it's very shallow, if that matters to you. Usually doesn't to me. The jukebox looks nice.

shardian · « **Reply #5 on:** July 31, 2007, 11:45:52 am »

Maybe the extra buttons control targets or lanes on the playfield? I can't find a rule sheet, so I don't know. In pinmame, there are no listings for extra buttons and gameplay seemed quite normal.

ChadTower · « **Reply #6 on:** July 31, 2007, 11:49:35 am »

Don't know if that one had lane change, but if it did, those are usually on the same stack as the flipper button(s). Early lane changers would have a second switch on one of the buttons, later ones would have a second switch on each button for more versatile control (possibly multiple lane banks).

Looking at the generic artwork I wouldn't be surprised if the extra buttons are there because it's a stock cabinet that wasn't changed for this particular game... maybe there's another late Bally game that actually uses the extra buttons.

2PacMan · « **Reply #7 on:** July 31, 2007, 01:23:21 pm »

Ah yes, i mean Party Animal. I'm not sure if i made a mistake in buying this or not. As the game does seem shallow. I need to clean it real good and put new rubbers and stuff on and give it a whirl and see. The jukebox is really neat, but it doesn't look like it has much else going for it. There's a frog that jumps up and down that looks cool.

I would love to wire one of the extra buttons to control the top flipper only. How would I go about doing that? Thanks!

ChadTower · « **Reply #8 on:** July 31, 2007, 01:24:54 pm »

On whichever flipper button controls the upper flipper, there will be a specific leaf switch in the stack that controls the upper flipper. Just move that switch to another button.

ChadTower · « **Reply #9 on:** July 31, 2007, 04:51:36 pm »

I did that search on RGP too and came up just as empty. All of those late Bally games are pretty low production run games so there's less out there on them.

RayB · « **Reply #10 on:** July 31, 2007, 05:11:42 pm »

I used like this game back in the day. I don't remember why. It might have been shallow, but maybe it was one of those games where the ball DIDN'T drop straight down the middle easily (I HATED those!)

Anyways, re the second button, does the game have a "magnet" feature?

RayB · « **Reply #11 on:** July 31, 2007, 11:52:28 pm »

Quote from: pinballjim on July 31, 2007, 10:29:00 pm

Heh, magnet features on a late 80s Bally?

Hell yeah. An electro magnet isn't exactly a "modern technology". Guess what a solenoid basically is?

2PacMan · « **Reply #12 on:** August 01, 2007, 08:26:55 am »

OK, well i figured out what the extra buttons do. I bent the leaf switches back and tried it out. When it's in the attract mode, the left extra button will give you the top 4 high scores and initials. The right button will take you through a mode where it will tell you the shots you are supposed to make during the game. Like it'll light an arrow near the ramp and the display will flash "shoot ramp for points" and stuff like that. And it goes through about 6 or 7 of these examples. It's pretty neat, so I left them like that. They do nothing once the game actually starts. Like you all were saying, bally recycled that cabinet towards the end of their run, so maybe those buttons did the lane diverter and stuff for other games, but not this one.

But now I have another problem. I finished 'shopping' the game out last night and there is a total of 7 flashers in the game. 3 of them work, 4 do not. I tried new bulbs, wiggling connectors, nothing. So I took the power wire from a working one and switched it with the power wire from the nonworking one. The original working one still worked with the new power wire, while the nonworking light continued not to work. So i've narrowed it down to a problem with the bulb holder. I ran continuity tests with my DMM on all points of the bulb holder with the bulb in it and everything seems to check out good. There are two connectors for the bulb holder. One of them connects to the power wire, the other has this diode on it. Is it possible the diode went bad? On 4 out of the 7? I don't think it's a lamp matrix board problem, as it is supplying power to the lights. Any ideas where to go from here?

ChadTower · « **Reply #13 on:** August 01, 2007, 10:35:57 am »

Quote from: RayB on July 31, 2007, 11:52:28 pm

Hell yeah. An electro magnet isn't exactly a "modern technology". Guess what a solenoid basically is?

That's not why he said that... the last run of Ballys were one cost cutting measure after another. They never would have put extra solenoids in for something like a magnasave, the boardset would have to be supplemented and it would have driven cost way up at a time when they were pinching every penny three times.

2PacMan · « **Reply #14 on:** August 01, 2007, 03:23:41 pm »

Yeah, you can tell they went the cheap route towards the end, they have a darn lightbulb in the backbox instead of individual lights.

So anyone know how to fix my flasher light problem (see above post)?

ChadTower · « **Reply #15 on:** August 01, 2007, 03:26:48 pm »

Did you check the diodes, as you mentioned?

2PacMan · « **Reply #16 on:** August 01, 2007, 03:54:26 pm »

How do i check a diode? There was no continuity going from leg to leg of the diode, but i'm not sure as to what setting to set my DMM at to see if they are dead or not.

shardian · « **Reply #17 on:** August 01, 2007, 03:56:42 pm »

http://www.tpub.com/content/neets/14179/css/14179_45.htm

ChadTower · « **Reply #18 on:** August 01, 2007, 03:57:20 pm »

http://www.elexp.com/t_test.htm

2PacMan · « **Reply #19 on:** August 01, 2007, 04:27:08 pm »

Thanks guys! I'll do some tests this evening.

SavannahLion · « **Reply #20 on:** August 01, 2007, 07:58:06 pm »

For someone who doesn't play a lot of pins, what does "shallow" mean?

Jouster · « **Reply #21 on:** August 01, 2007, 09:37:13 pm »

Quote from: SavannahLion on August 01, 2007, 07:58:06 pm

For someone who doesn't play a lot of pins, what does "shallow" mean?

They only like you for your quarters.

Jouster

SavannahLion · « **Reply #22 on:** August 02, 2007, 02:27:14 am »

Quote from: Jouster on August 01, 2007, 09:37:13 pm

Quote from: SavannahLion on August 01, 2007, 07:58:06 pm
For someone who doesn't play a lot of pins, what does "shallow" mean?
They only like you for your quarters.

Silly me, I don't spend a lot of time around grade schools so I wouldn't have known.

2PacMan · « **Reply #23 on:** August 02, 2007, 09:08:20 am »

OK, well I tried testing the diodes, and got all kinds of weird readings, then I read where it says you have to pull one end up from the circuit. Well, they are soldered in there, so I don't want to do that (yet), as i'm horrible at soldering. I'm thinking maybe i'll just buy a few new bulb holders and see if that fixes the problem. But, I can't find any like this for sale anywhere. Does anyone know where to get a holder like this? It fits a 555 bulb and it's a flasher and has a 1N4001 diode coming out of one end and a wire coming out of the other end. Here are a few pics:, also, if you see any other reasons why the lights won't work by looking at the pics, feel free to let me know:

shardian · « **Reply #24 on:** August 02, 2007, 09:11:45 am »

That diode is just tack soldered in place. If you are afraid to desolder that, then you have no business being on the business side of a pin playfield.

Just heat up the end away from the leaf plastic, then pull it away with a pair of needle nose pliers. It's so easy a caveman could do it.

2PacMan · « **Reply #25 on:** August 02, 2007, 09:13:17 am »

Yeah, I know....here's my thinking though. If the diode is bad, how can i solder the other end of the new diode up into the lamp holder? It's jammed way up in there. With a little work, i can probably unsolder the other end of the diode and test, but either way, i'm probably going to have to get a new lamp holder.

shardian · « **Reply #26 on:** August 02, 2007, 09:14:54 am »

Take another picture and put a sheet of paper behind the holder to force the camera to focus, or try the macro setting.

ChadTower · « **Reply #27 on:** August 02, 2007, 10:23:37 am »

+1 on what sharidan said. If you want to fix a pin you have to solder. Period.

If it's way up in there you remove the part entirely and pull it out.

You have to remove one end to test it properly.

2PacMan · « **Reply #28 on:** August 03, 2007, 08:30:09 am »

Hey guys, I haven't had a chance to check the diode yet, i'll probably do it this weekend, but here's some better pics of the lamp holder as requested. If anyone knows where to buy a replacement for this, please let me know as I have not found any sites selling this style. Thanks.

ChadTower · « **Reply #29 on:** August 03, 2007, 09:38:05 am »

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=catalog&parent=63&pg=1

It's unlikely that the problem is the socket, IMO.

2PacMan · « **Reply #30 on:** August 03, 2007, 10:45:30 am »

I don't see that particular socket at the pinballlife website.

I agree, it's probably not the socket, but if the diode is bad, i'd rather just buy a whole new socket for a dollar than buy new diodes and try to resolder them all to each of the old lamp sockets.

I was thinking last night maybe it had something to do with the common wire that was soldered to the metal bracket part of the socket. It looks like some of them are daisy chained together. There are 7 flashers in the game, and only three work. Do diodes fail at a rate where 4 of the 7 would go bad?

ChadTower · « **Reply #31 on:** August 03, 2007, 10:54:25 am »

Probably not but it is possible. Make sure you have continuity on all of those connections. If those 4 dead one are the last four on the line, that could be the issue, depending on exactly how they're run.

2PacMan · « **Reply #32 on:** August 03, 2007, 10:57:37 am »

To do the continuity test, should i be able to touch one end of the DMM probe to any flasher bulb base and the other end to any other flasher base and get a beep (assuming the are daisy chained together)? I only tested continuity at the socket itself, between different flashers. Maybe this is it....

ChadTower · « **Reply #33 on:** August 03, 2007, 11:06:18 am »

Test each connection individually. Really, you should be able to tell by looking, with lamp sockets, but continuity is more definitive.

2PacMan · « **Reply #34 on:** August 03, 2007, 11:53:45 am »

I got this from marvin's site:

3h. When Things Don't Work: the Lamp Drivers.
Stressed Lamp Connectors from Lowering and Raising the Backbox.
The wires that run to the CPU board connectors J10, J11, J12, J13 can often break from lowering and raising the backbox. These IDC (Insulation Displayment Connector) .100" Molex connectors are for the CPU controlled lamps, and don't handle stress very well. The problem is the wiring is not looped through the backbox very well and is generally too short, and often the wires and/or connectors break. Things to check include:

Cracked/cold solder joints on the CPU board at connectors J10 to J13 (along the left side of the CPU board).
Wires pulled from the .100" IDC Molex connector pins on the CPU board at J10 to J13.
Wires pulled from the square .093" Molox connector pins in the wiring going to CPU board connectors J10 to J13.
Wires physically broken inside the insulation going to CPU board connectors J10 to J13.
The last point is the most ugly, as a wire and its connector pins can look intact, but in fact be broken inside the insulation. The only way to test for this is to use a DMM's continuity check from the playfield lamp to the CPU connector J10 to J13 in question. This problem will raise its ugly head when certain CPU controlled lamps do not work.

Do you think this could be the cause of my issues?

ChadTower · « **Reply #35 on:** August 03, 2007, 12:03:39 pm »

Sure could be.

2PacMan · « **Reply #36 on:** August 03, 2007, 01:37:05 pm »

I wonder if maybe i should just get a roll of wire and clip the existing wire and rewire each of the lamps to the connector and see if that helps any. Maybe i'll try that this weekend.

ChadTower · « **Reply #37 on:** August 03, 2007, 01:56:22 pm »

That would be a lot more effort than checking continuity on the runs that are in place... I guess unless you're going to use existing alligator clipped leads. Still, continuity is easy to check once you know how and it is a skill you absolutely need on a pin.

Buddabing · « **Reply #38 on:** August 03, 2007, 02:32:12 pm »

Do you have a manual yet?

Have you checked the fuses that control the relevant flashers?

If not, make sure you check them out of circuit. Use an ohmmeter, (digital multimeter set to ohms)

ChadTower · « **Reply #39 on:** August 03, 2007, 02:35:56 pm »

I doubt it's a fuse - all of them would be out if it were (rather than 4 of 7), probably along with all of the other lights.

The things I'd check = continuity in the lighting circuit and whether or not all four dead lights are controlled by a single element that the other 3 are not. I could easily see them controlled in two groups, of 4 and 3, by the cpu and thus on different transistors.


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