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Author Topic: Dual Topgun problems...  (Read 1778 times)

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Green Giant

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Dual Topgun problems...
« on: July 06, 2007, 09:56:33 pm »
Before anyone says do some research, I have.  Read just about all of the massive topgun topic.  Also searched and read all the topics about dual gun support.

My trouble is not the integration into mame, it is recognition by windows.

I setup the first gun using Smog's driver.  Works great.  Moves the mouse around and tracks fine in mame.

Then I tried setting up the second gun.  It looked to be working correctly, but it doesn't.  The driver installed just like the first gun.  I did the hardware calibration, but then when it moves around the screen, nothing happens.  I checked the device manager, both appear to be correct.  I thought it just wasn't recognized as a third mouse, trackball is first, so I tried it in mame.  When I try to input it like the first gun, nothing shows up.

Now it gets worse.  I uninstalled all of the guncon drivers in device manager, then I unplugged them both.  Rebooted, took the second gun, plugged it in to the location of the first, and ran the driver install again.  It did nothing again.  Took the first gun, plugged it in to the second guns spot and tried an install.  It worked like before.

Now when I open smogs guncon2 program, it shows Guncon ID 1 and ID 2 with red X's.  Guncon ID 3 and ID 4 look normal.  All of the settings between the two are identical. 

Any thoughts, possibly some advice from Smog?  I also tried the wheel.gif file thing in the system32 folder.
"He lives down there in his valley,
The cat stands tall and green,
Well, he ain't no prize, and there's no women his size,
And that's why the cat's so mean"
Toxic Arcade, my first build

Green Giant

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Re: Dual Topgun problems...
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2007, 07:56:48 pm »
Let me rephrase it for anyone out there.  If you have dual guns setup, what did you do to setup your second gun. 

Did you immediately set it up once the first gun was up?  Did it act as a mouse right after?  Anything you can offer will help out fixing this.
"He lives down there in his valley,
The cat stands tall and green,
Well, he ain't no prize, and there's no women his size,
And that's why the cat's so mean"
Toxic Arcade, my first build

buks

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Re: Dual Topgun problems...
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2007, 08:00:41 am »
Green Giant,

I've just setup my dual Topguns so hopefully I can help.

I'm running :

  • smogs latest driver (0.9b6)
  • MAME 0.116

I did have some problems initially setting up the guns - The "calibration wizard" that was mentioned in the hlp just wasn't there. In the end I didnt need it though.

First thing I did (which you also appear to have done) was get one gun up and running first.

Then you need to edit your mame.ini and find the sections with this stuff :

mouse 0
joystick 0
lightgun 0
dual_lightgun 1
lightgun_device lightgun

Not sure if the dual_lightgun stuff was added after a particular version of mame - if so then you need to upgrade !

Then plug the gun in and setup using smogs control panel app.

I can't remeber if the 2nd gun controlled the mouse cursor or not though.

Should work in mame........ good luck !

Buks


PS

Most of the info I used was here : http://www.silverfoxy.f2s.com/Topgun.html (silverfox is on byoac so he may be able to shed more light on this subject if my advice is no good).

Green Giant

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Re: Dual Topgun problems...
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2007, 09:24:48 am »
I don't think I added the lightgun_device to my mame.ini file, so I will try that later on tonight.

Thanks

Also, do you disconnect your lightguns when booting up your computer?  Noticed mine won't boot until I disconnect them.  I remember reading something about this, just making sure it is happening to everyone.
"He lives down there in his valley,
The cat stands tall and green,
Well, he ain't no prize, and there's no women his size,
And that's why the cat's so mean"
Toxic Arcade, my first build

buks

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Re: Dual Topgun problems...
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2007, 11:06:34 am »
No not had that problem - maybe its something to do with your motherboard/chipset/usb ?

Double check you have the latest smog driver.

If all else fails, theres another set of drivers by a guy called Acorn. Not sure but I think smogs are more recent though.

Good luck tonight !

Buks

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Re: Dual Topgun problems...
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2007, 11:33:37 am »
Have the latest smog driver. 

Think it could be usb problem with my motherboard somehow.  Problem is that my tv can't display the resolution my computer boots up in so I can't see what exactly is wrong with it.  Might have to get out the computer monitor and check it.

Is the wingun driver the one by Acorn?  I will probably try and get smogs working first before I mess with another one.

Thanks,
"He lives down there in his valley,
The cat stands tall and green,
Well, he ain't no prize, and there's no women his size,
And that's why the cat's so mean"
Toxic Arcade, my first build

buks

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Re: Dual Topgun problems...
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2007, 11:55:33 am »
Yep wingun is the Acorn driver I was referring to.

I also have a TV for a monitor - I'm using a hacked VGA-SCART cable and Powerstrip software to display 640x480 so I know the problem with the bios screen coming up all garbled.

One thiong to be aware of when switching from one driver to another - make sure you remove everything before loading another driver. I switched from wingun to the EMS driver and then to smogs driver. I did initially have a load of problems which where caused by me not removing acorns driver (I think it camne with an unistall batch file which I'd forgotten to run).

Buks

Cananas

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Re: Dual Topgun problems...
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2007, 11:32:19 am »
Green Giant,
1) Uninstall Smog drivers. Delete the rest of the files that are in the driver install folder.
2) Try to install the Smog drivers previously to connect any LCDTopGun. (Install the drivers without any LCDTopGun connected).
3) Connect the gun that doesn't work.
4) WindowsXP must recognize a new device and must install two drivers: a guncon2 driver and a generic mouse driver.

At his point, be sure that the Leds bars are connected to the gun installed to give them the power that need to work.

5) Probably you will need to make a hardware calibration. It is a hardware calibration, not a software one. So, really, you could do this hardware calibration before. It is only necessary that the gun and the Leds bars are connected. Nothing to do with the Smog Drivers.

6) After this, you could track the mouse cursor with the gun.

7) Connect the other gun to other usb port. Windows must recognize like the point 4. If it does not, retry the connection or change the port.

8) Continue with the point 5 and 6. The second gun also tracks the mouse cursor.

After this, you can open the guncon2 control panel to change the button configuration.

Don't use the recoil function of the LCDTopGuns. They consume a lot of power. Maybe the problems with the boot is related to this. Try to connect the guns to other usb ports and check it.

Green Giant

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Re: Dual Topgun problems...
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2007, 01:21:35 pm »
An update:  things are looking bad.

Tried uninstalling and using an older version of smog's driver.
With the older version, the mouse acted a little different, it just went to the bottom left corner of the screen, but the trigger had no effect.  Since couldn't get the mouse to work I tried updating to the latest smog driver.  Used the bad gun for the install, and once again it did nothing after the install. 

This is where I noticed a problem.  I opened up device manager to take a look at the driver.  Whenever I connect the bad gun, it recognizes it as a guncon2 device and applies the driver. 

The problem is this, "Location:            Location 0 (Xbox Guns)"
With the other gun that works fine it has something like "USB device" next to location.  This is the only difference I have found with the bad gun and the good gun. 

I might try wiping the driver again and installing wingun's drivers.  Then uninstall those and try smog's again. 

Has anyone seen this on theres?  All searches have turned up negative for this problem.  I will probably try the bad gun out on my desktop computer tonight to see if it is local or the gun.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2007, 01:30:07 pm by Green Giant »
"He lives down there in his valley,
The cat stands tall and green,
Well, he ain't no prize, and there's no women his size,
And that's why the cat's so mean"
Toxic Arcade, my first build

buks

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Re: Dual Topgun problems...
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2007, 01:29:55 pm »
GG  - it certainly sounds like at least one of the guns is picking up an old/wrong driver from somewhere.

What I'd do is get you first gun working - tracking the mouse and actually working with mame. Then try and fix the second gun problem.

In your last post when you say "t just went to the bottom left corner of the screen, but the trigger had no effect" had you done a hardware calibration BEFORE it did this ? As Canans mentions in point (5) of his post its worth doing. In case you don't know the hardware calibration is when you press A+B together on the gun (laser stays lit) then shoot top left led then centre of screen, top left, right, bottom right and then left. Sorry if you've done that and not mentioned it because its obvious !

Definately get one gun working 100% before tackling the second.

What version of mame are you running ?

Buks

Green Giant

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Re: Dual Topgun problems...
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2007, 01:35:50 pm »
Yeah, already tried that.  I had the first gun working fine.  Played area 51 for a few minutes.  Then I tried setting up the second gun.  This is the one that crapped out.  Did the hardware calibration.  Appears to be reading correctly since the laser comes on in the screen and off when it leaves the screen. 

It is the latest release of mame.  Updated everything a few days ago in preparation for the guns.

I don't know if it would matter at all that I played these guns on my xbox when I first got them.  Then they sat in a box for a few months.  The strange thing is that when wiping everything out, rebooting, and trying the bad gun on a different usb port it still screws up.  Then doing the same thing with the good gun works fine.  The driver location recognition is the strangest thing about it.
"He lives down there in his valley,
The cat stands tall and green,
Well, he ain't no prize, and there's no women his size,
And that's why the cat's so mean"
Toxic Arcade, my first build

buks

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Re: Dual Topgun problems...
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2007, 01:44:05 pm »
GG - sounds very odd. I'm pretty sure I used at least one of my guns on my xbox before I fixed them into the cab so in theory that shouldnt be the problem. But then again your device thinks its some kind of xbox gun !

What type of usb socket are you plugging into - one on your case/motherboard or a hub ? Might be worth deleting all your usb devices in Hardware then letting windows set them back up again (maybe unplug every usb device first).

Got me foxed this one !

Have you tried the "broken" gun on your xbox ? I'm thinking just in case its actually faulty ?

When I go on my cab later I'll checkout what the devices are called and let you know.

Buks

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Re: Dual Topgun problems...
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2007, 01:53:51 pm »
I might try deleting the usb devices idea.  First thing I will try is the gun on a different computer.  If it screws up on another computer not sure what to do.

I might try to contact playasia but I think my warranty is gone.  Any idea how there return/exchange policy works?
"He lives down there in his valley,
The cat stands tall and green,
Well, he ain't no prize, and there's no women his size,
And that's why the cat's so mean"
Toxic Arcade, my first build

buks

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Re: Dual Topgun problems...
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2007, 03:22:02 pm »
GG,

Just to confirm :

In Hardware/Device Manager/Human Interface Devices :

I have 2 entries for the guns (both are identical) :

Guncon2 Device
  • Type - Human Interface Device
  • Manufacturer  - Smog Engineering
  • Location - Location 0 (USB Device)


I did think the second device would have a different Location setting but it doesn't.

Both my guns are plugged into an unpowered hub.

hope this helps.

Buks

Cananas

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Re: Dual Topgun problems...
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2007, 05:00:54 pm »
This is where I noticed a problem.  I opened up device manager to take a look at the driver.  Whenever I connect the bad gun, it recognizes it as a guncon2 device and applies the driver. 

The problem is this, "Location:            Location 0 (Xbox Guns)"
With the other gun that works fine it has something like "USB device" next to location.  This is the only difference I have found with the bad gun and the good gun. 

Oh! Now it's clear for me. It seems that you have the switch (X/P) located at the bottom of the gun in 'X' (X-Box position). The correct position is 'P' (Playstation2&PC). Verify that (number eight).


Extracted from the official installation guide (http://www.hkems.com/product/xbox/completeguide(eng).pdf)
« Last Edit: July 10, 2007, 05:18:44 pm by Cananas »

Green Giant

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Re: Dual Topgun problems...
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2007, 06:03:22 pm »
That could be it.  Will try it out later.  Feel like a dumbass if thats what is wrong.  :dizzy:  Hopefully I screwed up on it cause I completely forgot there was a switch for the different systems.

Thanks,
"He lives down there in his valley,
The cat stands tall and green,
Well, he ain't no prize, and there's no women his size,
And that's why the cat's so mean"
Toxic Arcade, my first build

buks

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Re: Dual Topgun problems...
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2007, 07:45:40 pm »
make that two dumbasses !!!! I can't beleive I forgot there was a switch.

Sounds very much like this is your problem so hopefully you will be playing 2 player soon.

Hats off to Cananas - well spotted mate !

Buks

Green Giant

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Re: Dual Topgun problems...
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2007, 12:32:32 am »
Alright, everything is working.  Played some dual gun area 51, really hard to aim at two aliens at the same time.

Feel stupid for forgetting that, but it is working now.

Thanks for the switch reminder.   :cheers:
"He lives down there in his valley,
The cat stands tall and green,
Well, he ain't no prize, and there's no women his size,
And that's why the cat's so mean"
Toxic Arcade, my first build

Kaytrim

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Re: Dual Topgun problems...
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2007, 09:25:13 am »
Hey GG, I've been following this thread cause I can't get one gun to work let alone two of them.  Could you do a quick run down of what the final install was?

Thanks :cheers:
Kaytrim

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Re: Dual Topgun problems...
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2007, 01:53:30 pm »
Kaytrim - could you expand on "I can't get one gun to work never mind two" ?

As in :

Driver wont install so I'm stuck

or

Can install driver and guncon2 device driver but thats it

or

Done above and gun tracks mouse cursor but doesnt work in mame

or

All the above and some games work but others dont.

The reason is theres probably a totally different solution depending on the problem.

My small bit of advice though - once the LCD guns are working they are pretty amazing so stick with it !!!!!

Buks
« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 02:01:14 pm by buks »

Kaytrim

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Re: Dual Topgun problems...
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2007, 03:38:48 pm »
I have smogs driver installed it works fine in windows but is not recognized in mame.  I do plan on sticking with this until I get it working.  I just don't have a large block of time to put on this to push through.

TTFN

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Re: Dual Topgun problems...
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2007, 04:08:21 pm »
Kaytrim,

No worries mate - we'll get them working in no time !!!!

Have you edited your mame.ini file to tell it about the lightguns ?

Heres a snippet of my mame.ini :

#
# INPUT DEVICE OPTIONS
#
mouse                   0
joystick                0
lightgun                1
dual_lightgun           1


It MAY be easier to just get one gun working first though.

I may be wrong but I think dual lightgun support wasn't orinally in mame - but I'm not sure what version they added support. I'm running mame .116 if thats any help.

Buks

Green Giant

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Re: Dual Topgun problems...
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2007, 04:26:22 pm »
You will definitely want the latest version of mame.  I am assuming you have the latest smog driver and you haven't installed aynthing else previously.

What frontend are you using?  Mala makes it really easy to change the mame.ini settings. 

Once you are in mame, do you hit tab, game input, and try moving the gun around the screen?
"He lives down there in his valley,
The cat stands tall and green,
Well, he ain't no prize, and there's no women his size,
And that's why the cat's so mean"
Toxic Arcade, my first build

Kaytrim

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Re: Dual Topgun problems...
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2007, 04:32:19 pm »
MAME & ROM files, version 116
Latest smog drivers
tried the EMS and WinGun drivers not sure if they are fully uninstalled

#
# INPUT DEVICE OPTIONS
#
mouse                    0
joystick                  0
lightgun                  0
dual_lightgun        ?


I don't know much more right now as I am at the office.  If I get the chance tonight I'll poke around and report back.

*edit  I use WindowsXP and GameEx.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 04:41:03 pm by Kaytrim »

Green Giant

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Re: Dual Topgun problems...
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2007, 09:10:11 pm »
mouse 0
joystick 0
lightgun 0
dual_lightgun 1
lightgun_device lightgun

Should look like that in the mame.ini file.  What happens when you map the guns to the game.  You still have to map them after they are setup in the mame.ini file.  Assuming they are working as a mouse on Windows, they should work.  When you open Smog's program and pull the trigger, does it register as a button press?
"He lives down there in his valley,
The cat stands tall and green,
Well, he ain't no prize, and there's no women his size,
And that's why the cat's so mean"
Toxic Arcade, my first build

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Re: Dual Topgun problems...
« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2007, 07:11:10 pm »
Sorry coming in late, but you should be able to use latest smog driver, current mame, and

mouse           0
joystick        0
lightgun        0
dual_lightgun   0
lightgun_device lightgun


FWIW, lightgun_device lightgun means "if the game has a lightgun type input, then act like lightgun 1, else leave lightgun to what it says in ini file."


Next you should make sure the guns are mapped correctly (detailed howto).

If it still doesn't work, you have to make sure EMS driver is totally uninstalled, as it conflicts with smog's driver, IIRC.  I think you have to go to device manager (start, control panel, system, hardware, device manager is one way), turn on viewing hidden devices, and find & uninstalling the EMS driver.
Robin
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Kaytrim

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Re: Dual Topgun problems...
« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2007, 08:31:16 pm »
Ok got a little time tonight to work on it.  I have it working in Windows and now it is working in MAME but it is jerky and hard to hit the targets.

Any ideas?

TTFN

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Re: Dual Topgun problems...
« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2007, 09:40:43 pm »
I am pretty sure there is a sensitivity control in Smogs control center.  Adjust this to change the jerkiness/speed, more jerky means it moves faster and vice versa.

Also, how big is your tv, where are you standing, and where are the led strips mounted?
"He lives down there in his valley,
The cat stands tall and green,
Well, he ain't no prize, and there's no women his size,
And that's why the cat's so mean"
Toxic Arcade, my first build

Kaytrim

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Re: Dual Topgun problems...
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2007, 11:36:47 am »
I am pretty sure there is a sensitivity control in Smogs control center.  Adjust this to change the jerkiness/speed, more jerky means it moves faster and vice versa.

Also, how big is your tv, where are you standing, and where are the led strips mounted?

Thanks, I'll look into that tonight I hope.  I am using a 19" CRT computer monitor with the bars mounted above and below.  I am standing about 5' back and could stand closer.

TTFN

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Re: Dual Topgun problems...
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2007, 01:19:20 pm »
It will probably never be perfect because you are using a 19" monitor.  Most shooting games in the arcades have rather large screens.
"He lives down there in his valley,
The cat stands tall and green,
Well, he ain't no prize, and there's no women his size,
And that's why the cat's so mean"
Toxic Arcade, my first build

  
 

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